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Shutdown of prefrontal cortex

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Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 12/23/19 9:08 PM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex Bardo 12/24/19 1:45 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 12/24/19 7:44 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex Chris Marti 12/24/19 8:10 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 12/24/19 8:18 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex Chris Marti 12/24/19 8:20 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 12/24/19 9:07 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex Chris Marti 12/24/19 8:47 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 12/24/19 9:12 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 12/24/19 9:20 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 12/24/19 9:22 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 12/24/19 9:54 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 12/24/19 10:16 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 12/24/19 10:19 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 12/24/19 10:35 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 12/24/19 10:48 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 12/24/19 10:55 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 12/24/19 11:03 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 12/24/19 11:06 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 5/29/20 3:52 PM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 5/29/20 3:59 PM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex Ricky Lee Nuthman 6/27/20 8:30 PM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 6/28/20 8:31 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 6/28/20 11:59 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 7/9/20 4:57 PM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 7/27/20 12:50 PM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 7/28/20 11:43 AM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 7/28/20 3:17 PM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 6/27/20 7:18 PM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex Ernest Michael Olmos 7/28/20 4:24 PM
RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex A. DIetrich Ringle 7/28/20 4:46 PM
Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/23/19 9:08 PM
I wonder if this has anything to do with trying to milk out extra fruitions in a setting?

See 'Talking To Strangers' by Malcolm Gladwell

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/24/19 1:45 AM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
Could you provide some kind of synopsis around this question? It could possibly invite more responses.

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/24/19 7:44 AM as a reply to Bardo.
Sure. So the idea is that in the unfortunate scenario that we find ourselves in a scenario where Buddhism aka the middle path isn't feasible, there is a 2nd option. They found that torture doesn't actually produce accurate information out of prisoners because, according to the book I mentioned, the prefrontal cortex shuts down under tremendous stress and a kind of ambivilance sets in. You will say whatever gets you by in this scenario.

Now, this is just all in the movement to bring medical terms for Buddhist phenomena. When Daniel talks about calling up extra fruitions, someone might have a better context medically speaking. It's not actually part of the middle path. More like salvation from danger.

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/24/19 8:10 AM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
So we should torture people to get them to awaken???

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
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12/24/19 8:18 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Not I. But it's been done. And I am not sure it leads to simple awakening. Complicated.

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/24/19 8:20 AM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
Do tell!

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/24/19 9:07 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Do you like cold coffee or cold brew. One is lacking but hinting at glory. The other just was made to be that way. Sorry if your not a coffee fan.

Sleeping Buddha Syndrome aka Awakened Yogi Experiment!

I am not condoning torture.

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/24/19 8:47 AM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
I'm drinking coffee right now yet what you're saying still isn't making sense. I'll leave you to it, though, whatever it is. Just don't hurt anyone, including you.

emoticon

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/24/19 9:12 AM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
Are you saying that shutdown compares to awakening in the same way that cold coffee compares to a cold bear?

And are you referring to yourself as an experiment?

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/24/19 9:20 AM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Yes all self-referential. For me at this moment in time I feel that the word awakening is lacking. No judgement to those who would rather drink their coffee cold.

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
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12/24/19 9:22 AM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
In what sense is it lacking?

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/24/19 9:54 AM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
I am going to bring the conversation back to its original function. I thought I could make a correlation between the medically known occurrence of prefrontal cortex shutdown and "calling up extra fruitions
I don't recommend either

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/24/19 10:16 AM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
Oh, okay. So your point is that it is pointless, possibly even harmful, to intentionally repeat fruitions? Because it's forced and not the real thing? I'm sorry of I'm not following you.

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/24/19 10:19 AM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
I wanted to have a discussion about it. Thanks in advance 

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/24/19 10:35 AM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
Right. I have actually been wondering myself what is the point to repeated fruitions. I guess there are many differerent cognitive processes that need not to blank out to the fact that consciousness is discontinuous? I don't believe that fruitions can be forced. Either it happens or it doesn't. I can't know for sure, though. I'm thinking that it isn't the shutdown that is the point of it, but the awareness of the shutdown and of how all the constructions build up again afterwards. That the world isn't just there when consciousness comes back online, but must be built. Shutdowns probably happens all the time, but we just blank it out and smooth over the discontinuities.  

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/24/19 10:48 AM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Yeah. That my OCD brain likes to think otherwise is probably some form of evolution. Or perhaps devolution.

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/24/19 10:55 AM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
What does it think then? That there is continuity apart from the cessations? Or that cessations are another form of discontinuity? Or what? 

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/24/19 11:03 AM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
It thinks there is continuity apart from the discontinuity 

But I take OCD medication

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
12/24/19 11:06 AM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
Aha. Do you think that it could be the case that it fears finding out that there isn't? 

(I have Tourette syndrome, which is related. I used to be sooooooooo tired of my brain.)

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
5/29/20 3:52 PM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
I found out another type of description of a prefrontal cortex shut down besides the book by Malcom Gladwell that I mentioned.


PlaYinG DeaD

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
5/29/20 3:59 PM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
Sleeping Buddha Syndrome:
I found out another type of description of a prefrontal cortex shut down besides the book by Malcom Gladwell that I mentioned.


PlaYinG DeaD


The last couple of nights I have been playing the card game Euchre with my parents. It's amazing thinking back that I thought I was actually enjoying my experience when I kept making comments about "your killing me" and other types of death-based language. In hindsight I think my enjoyment was actually based on the fact that my suffering had built up to a point that I was getting pre-frontal cortex shutdowns as a result of renunciation mixed with past-life musings that created intense brain-violating-shutdowns. 

Edit- some kind of non-jhanic state

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
6/27/20 7:18 PM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
How does Buddha split the heaven's in two, as the scriptures say he did? There are actually three phases of reality that are in constant (sometimes impaired) communication with each other. When even this level of reality ceases to function you get a buildup of dukkha similar to the waters of a dam backflowing. This is also known as an eddy. I have had dreams where I was surfing on the ocean. I have also had dreams where I was surfing in a kayak on a river. The river speaks of completion. Of dukkha. While the ocean waves are in a state of forgettfulness. They ocean waves are playing. They don't know yet of what comes from above. Yet there is an intermingling The river is required by Buddhist doctrine to uphold fruition. Yet this fruition is not always on stable terms with awakening. The playful ocean can take that away. So what would happen if the oceans were drained? As knowledge of fruition grows. So does the responsibility to tell mother ocean. It's like being a translator. Buddha was just a visionary. That is all. 

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
6/27/20 8:30 PM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
Sleeping Buddha Syndrome:
They found that torture doesn't actually produce accurate information out of prisoners because, according to the book I mentioned, the prefrontal cortex shuts down under tremendous stress and a kind of ambivilance sets in. You will say whatever gets you by in this scenario.

This is called Depersonalization / Derealization. It's something that the mind does to get the self the hell outta there because there is too much suffering. 

It's like a switch that gets flipped when things become too much to bear. Unfortunately, I can say it definitely isn't like awakening.

I've had DPDR since 1989 after a traumatic event and it has never gone away. It is just as strong as it was on day 1. It feels like being here watching everything happen but with an eerie sense that everything has been replaced by exact copies of itself.... Copies that feel like movie projections without any substance. The world of perception feels exactly like a vivid dream that you can't wake up from. You are looking out of your eyes, but you're slightly offset from yourself, watching yourself watch the fake world from behind your eyes. You feel that nothing is real, but are strangely attached to that nothingness. The constant subtle fear never goes away because it feels like you are forever sliding into eternal nothingness, but you never land anywhere. Always in the middle somethingness and nothingness.

All you can do is basically pretend like everything is normal, and hope to one day find a cure. Basically, that's how I discovered meditation. It gives me hope that there is a way out of this point of view. It also feels pretty old hat to me seeing experience as being filtered through a fake self process. I've experienced life like this for 30 years now, but am only learned that it was an actual thing when I started learning about vipassana and such 6 years ago.

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
6/28/20 8:31 AM as a reply to Ricky Lee Nuthman.
I'm sorry to hear about your suffering. May you transform in ☮️. Peace bro.

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
6/28/20 11:59 AM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
I just find the term awakening to be a bit blase.

Edit, However I don't know how this term functions in translation. Hm

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
7/9/20 4:57 PM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
SO buddha has two teachers. One of the dies in the 7th jhana, someday to be reborn in a lower realm. The other dies in the 8th jhana, someday to be reborn as well. Does this seem kind of odd to anybody? Buddha was not some source of salvation, because if he were, he wouldn't leave people to rot in lower realms just because they had a bliss trip;

I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you!

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
7/27/20 12:50 PM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
This I think raises a good phenomenological question. How does one separate jhana with mindfulness to plain old jhana? I'd say there is some kind of temperature variation between jhana with mindfulness and that of a trance. This is going to be on my mind for a while I think.

#locksandslamsthedoorbehindhim

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
7/28/20 11:43 AM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
With the above consideration, I wonder how this would apply if there is a boundary between days like the one I have encountered many times in the past. It says: "time to wake up and face the new day>" I then have to make up a reason to be excited for the day. Lately it hasn't been going well.

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
7/28/20 3:17 PM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
I believe that the Buddha actually encountered his teacher(s) on a bad day. There is no way a fully enlightened individual wouldn't understand that some people only shine on certain time frames. Shoot, I know people who seem to have a bad day everyday but aren't faking it that well. I don't remember what days I have seen them on.

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
7/28/20 4:24 PM as a reply to A. DIetrich Ringle.
My idea of a fruition is a shutdown of, well everything (not only the prefrontal cortex).

For that to happen there must be no threat of any kind, no mental following of sensations, total harmony with the environment.

To have repeated fruitions I would try blissful states (hard jhanas).
Maybe aim for nirodha.

People say that nirodha is something else and probably better than repeated fruitions.

I haven't read 'talking to strangers' so it's only my opinion about fruitions.

My "theory" on this is that while no brain activity seems like a bad thing, its actually relaxing and overstimulation is actually torture (with electricity).
And that moment to moment there are millisecond gaps between pulses (vibrations), even in normal life. So we are having "mini fruitions" all the time.
My guess is that those gaps get wider with every path, etc. As the gap gets wider, the pulse is able to go "longer" or get more information before it collides with the newer one.

This "theory" explains A LOT of things in a way that cant be explained otherwise.

RE: Shutdown of prefrontal cortex
Answer
7/28/20 4:46 PM as a reply to Ernest Michael Olmos.
Ernest Michael Olmos:
My idea of a fruition is a shutdown of, well everything (not only the prefrontal cortex).

For that to happen there must be no threat of any kind, no mental following of sensations, total harmony with the environment.

To have repeated fruitions I would try blissful states (hard jhanas).
Maybe aim for nirodha.

People say that nirodha is something else and probably better than repeated fruitions.

I haven't read 'talking to strangers' so it's only my opinion about fruitions.

My "theory" on this is that while no brain activity seems like a bad thing, its actually relaxing and overstimulation is actually torture (with electricity).
And that moment to moment there are millisecond gaps between pulses (vibrations), even in normal life. So we are having "mini fruitions" all the time.
My guess is that those gaps get wider with every path, etc. As the gap gets wider, the pulse is able to go "longer" or get more information before it collides with the newer one.

This "theory" explains A LOT of things in a way that cant be explained otherwise.

My goal is to express myself sincerely at all times. Unfortunately this can cause unexplained phenomena some times. What I was trying to acomplish with this thread is that not all bad phenomenon can be noted away and that it is ok to fail at noting because as one of my favorite bands Empire of the Sun says in one of their songs *this is where we get carried away enough to start again. I am not sure if they had the same feeling as I do but surely the adage applies here.

Dietrich

PS I think that animals can be great healers.