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Claims to Attainment
Answer
1/7/20 11:55 AM
I have been meditating for about 40 years, on and off. I am CALLING OUT Daniel Ingram and any other self proclaimed advanced practioner of insight/concentration meditation.

There are billions of ignorant people on this planet, who by their nature are afraid of death. The majority of whom cling to thousands year old superstitions to give them some degree of comfort. They also carry the burden of a lack of concentration and the inabliltiy of handling emotions, which can lead to extreme levels of pain and suffering on a daily basis.

As explained by Daniel, and numurious practitioners ( not as consisely ) the advantages gained through the dedicated practise of mediation are amoung other things, abilitys that can be characterised as "supernatural". For the layman these could be discribed as miracles but for the standards of Buddhism they are considered as normal side effects of correct pratice.

What I fail to understand is, considering the constant pain and suffering endured by the majority of the people on this planet, why NO ONE has come forward and DEMONSTRATED to the wider public audience a simple example of such powers. Even the most common skills, as claimed, like seeing through closed eyelids or reading other people minds would make such a huge statement as to have world wide acclaim.

There are numerous institutions and academia circles who would be extreamly interested if such a phenomona could be demonstrated, not to mention financialy rewarded. Who would not want to see the great James Randi put in his place and receive a million dollar donation from his on going challenge? Not to mention a nobel peace prize.

I do not buy for one instant the claim of superior ethics/morality in this case. One that claims an advanced being does not show off for profit or self benediction. Stacked up against the suffering of 7.6 billion people, what harm could possibly come to one individual testing his karmic feedback of a simple demonstration of apparently insignicant skills.

This "scientifically" tested example would prove beyond a shadow of doubt that human beings are MORE than just physical bodies destined to obilvion after one lifetime. It would show to the world that we are eternal beings on a cycle of death and rebirth until we advance enough to escape it. That is, if the claims of what an Arhat's destiny is, is true, ( a transcendent state in which there is neither suffering, desire,nor sense of self, and the subject is released from the effects of karma and the cycle of death and rebirth. Representing the final goal of Buddhism. ) something I find a little hard to belive in the case of Daniel who has still been searching for answers to life's questions in the area of Actualism. 

Either the Buddha had it wrong or Daniel has not quite got it? There is desire or there isn't. Maybe he has convinced himself ( and others ) by his acamdemic prowess. Either way, don't you think it's a small price to pay for the saving of billions of souls?

 



 

RE: Claims to Attainment
Answer
1/7/20 12:41 PM as a reply to Thor Jackson.
It's been proven that if you go around walking on water people will kill you. Also you can demonstrate all kinds of wonderful things to people but most people don't want to wake up. Waking up is risky and sometimes terrifying business. Most people live somewhat happy lives being delusional and like it that way.

RE: Claims to Attainment
Answer
1/7/20 1:25 PM as a reply to Thor Jackson.
Thor, are you aiming to become The Amazing Randy of dharma?

RE: Claims to Attainment
Answer
1/7/20 5:50 PM as a reply to Thor Jackson.
Ending suffering and  "supernatural" powers, such as seeing through closed eyelids or reading other people minds, are two diffirent things.

A
wakening to the truth of the way things are, doesn't necessarily come with "powers". Alternatively, "powers" doesn't show or prove awakening.

RE: Claims to Attainment
Answer
1/7/20 5:41 PM as a reply to Thor Jackson.
There was a book I read as a teenager called "Illusions - The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah". Among other things it got into this question and the basic answer was that if you demonstrate miracles or powers, people just focus (greedily) on that. They want you to just do miracles for them, instead of actually listening and doing the practises. When he finally does perform miracles, first he's constantly swarmed by crowds demanding more miracles and for him to heal the sick, and then he's eventually killed by someone who can't accept his message (as someone suggested above).

It was a fictional story, but his point seems valid. Just look how violent and irrational people can get over boxing day sales, let alone something like the powers.

RE: Claims to Attainment
Answer
1/8/20 9:58 AM as a reply to Thor Jackson.
You are mistaken in the belief that Buddhism is the pinnacle of our species, that is a severe pipe dream.

As explained by Daniel, and numurious practitioners ( not as consisely ) the advantages gained through the dedicated practise of mediation are amoung other things, abilitys that can be characterised as "supernatural". For the layman these could be discribed as miracles but for the standards of Buddhism they are considered as normal side effects of correct pratice.

Here you seem to be referring to the activation of our perceptual systems or the willful actions of altering one's physiology. These are "supernatural" to Buddhism, but the reality is that we are a species that has divorced itself from its spiritual roots. These faculties are innate to the human creature, these abilities are not phenomenological but are in every respect, natural. Buddhism pushes these faculties further out of bounds by branding them as ascendatory when they truly just bring us closer to a lost connection. 
Buddhism's focus is primarily on the lessening of mental anguish and conceptual torture through self-realization. Development of such alleged "powers" are not necessary in that objective but as a result of the practice, they are pokily unfurled. For the layman, any type of hallucination is a matter of inexplicable phenomena.
The most basic knacks are supermundane to the unaware.

What I fail to understand is, considering the constant pain and suffering endured by the majority of the people on this planet, why NO ONE has come forward and DEMONSTRATED to the wider public audience a simple example of such powers. Even the most common skills, as claimed, like seeing through closed eyelids or reading other people minds would make such a huge statement as to have world wide acclaim.

Common skills...? Now, this is a totally different class of very elevated highs the likes this species hasn't been able to comfortably reproduce since before the last greatest cataclysm dismantled our civilization. When the aforementioned layman can facilely grasp altered states, or better yet when the average person is "enlightened", then we may begin to work towards regarding these skills as common.
Does less than a pocket of a splinter group of a minority among 8 billion sound common to you? emoticon
Through the collapse and ruination that resulted in us becoming a species with amnesia, we lost our connection with these faculties. And during the last few centuries, we have been occupied with technological advancement by way of mechanical advantage.

There are numerous institutions and academia circles who would be extreamly interested if such a phenomona could be demonstrated, not to mention financialy rewarded. Who would not want to see the great James Randi put in his place and receive a million dollar donation from his on going challenge? Not to mention a nobel peace prize.

We are so engrossed with physical and material solutions that now we deny alternative ways of looking at the world. These unorthodox ideas, we are told by the mainstream scientific community, form the premise of
"Fringe Theories" and such line of thinking is NOT held for peer-review and "SHOULD NOT" be taken seriously. But... that "world-wide acclaim" is in fact building, with the advent of this, the internet... The big bosses of mainstream science no longer control what ideas can be spread. Independent researches are guiding us towards a much needed forward leap, but they suffer horrible allegations...  

The Morphic Resonance theory put forth in the 20th century by Rupert Sheldrake was called, by editor John Maddox of the internationally renowned Nature Magazine, as "heresy" that deserves to be "condemned" and
"the best candidate for burning there had been for many years".

what harm could possibly come to one individual testing his karmic feedback of a simple demonstration of apparently insignicant skills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIkz6YN1qaU

Either the Buddha had it wrong or Daniel has not quite got it? There is desire or there isn't. Maybe he has convinced himself ( and others ) by his acamdemic prowess. Either way, don't you think it's a small price to pay for the saving of billions of souls?

Daniel bears a genuine impression. I'm sure its safe to assume you've read his work..? The methods anyway, simply work. The Buddha walked the path of awareness. The path of awareness is good because it is systematic and straightforward. You can point to it and you can attain. But the path of awareness is one way, not the be-all-end-all. There is much beyond that. 

From the creation, came a shivling...

RE: Claims to Attainment
Answer
1/8/20 6:41 AM as a reply to Mista Tibbs.
... "Fringe Theories" and such line of thinking is NOT held for peer-review and SHOULD NOT be taken seriously.

I'm not so sure we should take Thor all that seriously. 'Course, we probably shouldn't take most things all that seriously.

RE: Claims to Attainment
Answer
1/8/20 2:34 PM as a reply to Thor Jackson.

RE: Claims to Attainment
Answer
1/11/20 8:57 AM as a reply to Thor Jackson.
Might check out the book Real Magic, by Dean Radin, as well as some others, such as Supernormal and Entangled Minds, that is if you are interested in entertaining arguments that this stuff has long been proven and people just continue to reject it for fixed-paradigmatic/dogmatic reasons.

Might get your concentration strong, like really strong, and see what happens, as there is nothing like doing the experiment yourself to inform questions and views. That is always more satisfying than reading some words on an internet forum, and can lead to other benefits as well. Basically, if you actually care about this stuff, care about it in a way that gives you the benefits that deep, caring practice leads to. If you don't actually care that much, consider moving to a forum that is more for theoretical discussions and skepticism than practice. Talk is cheap but also typically unsatisfying in these areas for all concerned.

Haven't had anything in particular to do with Actualism in years, but did derive some interesting results from my experiments with it, and definitely don't regret that period of my practice, though I am happy that politics isn't happening now like it was then.

Best wishes,

Daniel

RE: Claims to Attainment
Answer
1/11/20 3:58 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Daniel M. Ingram:
Might check out the book Real Magic, by Dean Radin, as well as some others, such as Supernormal and Entangled Minds, that is if you are interested in entertaining arguments that this stuff has long been proven and people just continue to reject it for fixed-paradigmatic/dogmatic reasons.

Might get your concentration strong, like really strong, and see what happens, as there is nothing like doing the experiment yourself to inform questions and views. That is always more satisfying than reading some words on an internet forum, and can lead to other benefits as well. Basically, if you actually care about this stuff, care about it in a way that gives you the benefits that deep, caring practice leads to. If you don't actually care that much, consider moving to a forum that is more for theoretical discussions and skepticism than practice. Talk is cheap but also typically unsatisfying in these areas for all concerned.

Haven't had anything in particular to do with Actualism in years, but did derive some interesting results from my experiments with it, and definitely don't regret that period of my practice, though I am happy that politics isn't happening now like it was then.

Best wishes,

Daniel

   
   If I actually, physically saw a man walk through a wall I would not believe it.

   The laws of nature are not mere dogmatism, not just a paradigm. There is a real ocean outside the bone vault ocean.

   I had a friend who spent ten years with the maharishi mahesh yogi, and was convinced he was going to learn how to levitate. He was bitterly disappointed. A lot of spiritual energy went into the levitation project, and no one actually rose into the air unsupported.

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