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is meditation/fruition in dreams 'real'?

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Is meditating in dreams/lucid dreams and attaining nyanas and fruitions and stuff fundamentally the same as in waking life? (similar to how REM sleep is more similar to waking consciousness than the rest of the sleep cycles).

i ask because i just had quite the fantastical dream where i went to visit a Scientology place and they charged me $50 to zap me with some electricity which coursed through my body causing an awesome fruition complete with bliss wave (A&P anyone? hehe). later on i became lucid and manifested a really interesting series of nyanas on my hand: as i looked at it, a whole bunch of water formed on top of it. mind&body was a circular hole forming out of it. cause&effect was the hole shifting slightly. 3c's was the water rushing into the hole and becoming unpleasant to look at and messed up. A&P was the water having no hole but tons of bubbles rising up on it. dissolution the bubbling stopped. fear->re-observation each had a noticeable shift though i don't remember the particulars. equanimity was particularly interesting as i saw the whole body of water with a hole in the middle, then the middle started closing up and swirling together in an intricate pattern, then when it completed, BAM, fruition, and nice bliss wave. all within a few seconds.

i just find it funny/weird/interesting that these things manifested so much more clearly in the dream than when i meditate while awake and sober (can't really recognize fruitions; i do recognize nyanas vaguely but they don't go by so fast). though actually, now that i think about it, that kind of stuff does happen with that ease and rapidity while high.

RE: is meditation/fruition in dreams 'real'?
Answer
5/22/11 5:08 AM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
Beo,

Castaneda:The Art of Dreaming.

"Tonight, in your dreams, you must look at your hands." ...

"After a great effort, I indeed found hands in my dreams, but they never were mine. They were hands that only seemed to belong to me, hands that changed shape, becoming quite nightmarish at times. The rest of my dreams' content, nonetheless, was always pleasantly steady. I could almost sustain the view of anything I focused my attention on. It went on like this for months, until one day when my capacity to dream changed seemingly by itself. I had done nothing special besides my constant earnest determination to be aware that I was falling asleep and to find my hands".

Looking at the hands while dreaming is emphasized quite a bit in this technique he calls dreaming. Might be of interest. Free summary download here: http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan9.html

RE: is meditation/fruition in dreams 'real'?
Answer
5/22/11 5:20 AM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
My conjecture on these things is that they do happen while dreaming, although they appear much more intense than they do when awake. This because I have had explosive surges of energies up through the spine while dreaming, that seemed so massive that I awoke, only to find them to be hardly more than a trickle.

RE: is meditation/fruition in dreams 'real'?
Answer
5/22/11 8:57 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
Beo,

Castaneda:The Art of Dreaming.

"Tonight, in your dreams, you must look at your hands." ...

"After a great effort, I indeed found hands in my dreams, but they never were mine. They were hands that only seemed to belong to me, hands that changed shape, becoming quite nightmarish at times. The rest of my dreams' content, nonetheless, was always pleasantly steady. I could almost sustain the view of anything I focused my attention on. It went on like this for months, until one day when my capacity to dream changed seemingly by itself. I had done nothing special besides my constant earnest determination to be aware that I was falling asleep and to find my hands".

Looking at the hands while dreaming is emphasized quite a bit in this technique he calls dreaming. Might be of interest. Free summary download here: http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan9.html

ya, i'm aware of this technique. when i was trying to learn to lucid dream i did the same thing - train myself to look at my hands if i think i'm dreaming. hands area always shifting in some weird way which almost always makes me lucid right away cause it's pretty good proof i'm dreaming. (sometimes, they would be shifting and i had gotten so used to it i'd wonder if that was really a sign of dreaming, and it wouldn't work... i have a suspicion my body doesn't want me to lucid dream, as it always seem to work against my efforts to do so.)

RE: is meditation/fruition in dreams 'real'?
Answer
5/22/11 3:50 PM as a reply to Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem.
I'd say they're as real as any other phenomena encountered during meditation, it's the same territory being explored but the "psychic censor" (as it's often called by chaos magicians) doesn't operate in the same way as it does during waking hours.

This dream actually signifies that L. Ron. Hubbard is coming to tamper with you under the covers while you sleep though. emoticon

RE: is meditation/fruition in dreams 'real'?
Answer
5/22/11 4:52 PM as a reply to Tommy M.
More interesting and practical than the question of what is "real", which is an arbitrary designation at the best of times, is the question of what is causal, meaning what leads to other effects.

Dreams and powers-like experiences at the very least lead to memories and mood changes, as well as questions about such things as what is "real", so regardless of whether or not you decide to call them "real", it is undeniable that they cause other things to occur.

As to what happened to you, that is clearly the A&P, as you surmised, and crossing the A&P in dreams is causal just as it is if you crossed it when "awake", another arbitrary designation, and the downstream effects are the same, as it leads just as surely to the next stages, and thus, real or otherwise, is relevant to knowing how and what to do in your practice and the insights gained during it are just as potent and effective.

RE: is meditation/fruition in dreams 'real'?
Answer
5/22/11 6:15 PM as a reply to Tommy M.
Tommy M:
I'd say they're as real as any other phenomena encountered during meditation, it's the same territory being explored but the "psychic censor" (as it's often called by chaos magicians) doesn't operate in the same way as it does during waking hours.

This dream actually signifies that L. Ron. Hubbard is coming to tamper with you under the covers while you sleep though. emoticon

hehe, the conclusion of my dream was that Scientologists had figured out stream-entry (using the word 'bases' instead of 'nyanas') and kept it super-secret and charged money for it, but hadn't figured out the rest, and the super-electric thing was a way to trigger A&Ps or other things, after which they'd observe how people started cycling. having already had stream-entry, i started cycling fast, i heard the guy telling his superior "he's shooting through the bases!" and they wanted me to join cause they thought i had potential or something. fun stuff..