Message Boards Message Boards

Toggle
First Jhana?
Answer
3/2/20 11:22 AM
I posted this on my log, but I'm interested in some diagnosis, so I thought I'd copy it here.

Doing concentration practice today. Concentration was okay, not amazing, but I was def. feeling some pleasent feelings in the midst of it. I was thinking about the instructions from Right Concentration on turning the attention to the piti to get to First Jhana. I was holding off because I kept telling myself my concentration wasn't strong enough yet, but for whatever reason I felt confidence in swithching to the piti and finally made the jump. 

I felt like I was able to stick with it pretty well and I could feel the piti slowly surging as I kept the concentration. At one point, I think I realized that I was mostly focusing on the sukkha (the happy feeling) and tried to and tried to narrow in on the giddiness of the piti. As I did so I could feel it really swell and I had a giant grin break out on my face, which was actually broke my concentration a bit. I was also getting sexually aroused, which was distracting because of the physical senstations but also the confusion about whether or not that should be happenning.

The piti died down and I returned to my breath. When I switch to piti, the breath always feels very soft and pleasent afterwards and my concentration is stronger. So maybe making these jumps to piti is not a bad way to reinforce the concentration. I did a bit of back and forth from breath to piti to wrap up the session. 

Somehow I was able to maintain the concentration while my cat was scratching at the door, but I got up super mindfully, let her in and decided to do a bit of walking meditation with noting.

As promised, the high level of concentration made the vipassana work very clear and sharp. Faces almost seemed to pop out of the the wood grain, and visually everything seemed very crisp, almost like I was on a micro-dose of mushrooms. I slowly walked down to my basement, all of my perceptions feeling super sensitive. I crossed the floor of my basement and on the opposite side of the room. I felt the piti welling again. I returned my attention to the piti and this time it was explosive. I got a huge surge of euphoria that felt orgasmic. In my mind, I'm like "This is it! This is it! First Jhana baby!" It was super energetic and I felt my breathing get fast and shallow and the sexual arousal again. It peaked and then dissipated. 

I think the noveltly of it and being distracted by all of the sensations might have made me lose my concentration, but I was mostly just super excited about it. Not sure if I quite hit First Jhana  (it certainly wasn't stable) and something about it even kind of reminds me of the A&P. Not sure, but it felt like an accomplishment. Maybe, at the very least, more motivation to hit the cushion again.

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/2/20 3:09 PM as a reply to Brandon Dayton.
Brandon Dayton:
I posted this on my log, but I'm interested in some diagnosis, so I thought I'd copy it here.

Doing concentration practice today. Concentration was okay, not amazing, but I was def. feeling some pleasent feelings in the midst of it. I was thinking about the instructions from Right Concentration on turning the attention to the piti to get to First Jhana. I was holding off because I kept telling myself my concentration wasn't strong enough yet, but for whatever reason I felt confidence in swithching to the piti and finally made the jump. 

I felt like I was able to stick with it pretty well and I could feel the piti slowly surging as I kept the concentration. At one point, I think I realized that I was mostly focusing on the sukkha (the happy feeling) and tried to and tried to narrow in on the giddiness of the piti. As I did so I could feel it really swell and I had a giant grin break out on my face, which was actually broke my concentration a bit. I was also getting sexually aroused, which was distracting because of the physical senstations but also the confusion about whether or not that should be happenning.

The piti died down and I returned to my breath. When I switch to piti, the breath always feels very soft and pleasent afterwards and my concentration is stronger. So maybe making these jumps to piti is not a bad way to reinforce the concentration. I did a bit of back and forth from breath to piti to wrap up the session. 

Somehow I was able to maintain the concentration while my cat was scratching at the door, but I got up super mindfully, let her in and decided to do a bit of walking meditation with noting.

As promised, the high level of concentration made the vipassana work very clear and sharp. Faces almost seemed to pop out of the the wood grain, and visually everything seemed very crisp, almost like I was on a micro-dose of mushrooms. I slowly walked down to my basement, all of my perceptions feeling super sensitive. I crossed the floor of my basement and on the opposite side of the room. I felt the piti welling again. I returned my attention to the piti and this time it was explosive. I got a huge surge of euphoria that felt orgasmic. In my mind, I'm like "This is it! This is it! First Jhana baby!" It was super energetic and I felt my breathing get fast and shallow and the sexual arousal again. It peaked and then dissipated. 

I think the noveltly of it and being distracted by all of the sensations might have made me lose my concentration, but I was mostly just super excited about it. Not sure if I quite hit First Jhana  (it certainly wasn't stable) and something about it even kind of reminds me of the A&P. Not sure, but it felt like an accomplishment. Maybe, at the very least, more motivation to hit the cushion again.

aloha brandon,

   I don't think you can get into a jhana just walking around. I find that I absolutely have to sit in the accustomed posture to get reliable results. When I sit, the habitual energy of the sitting posture induces meditation states regardless of what state of mind I sat down with.

terry

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/2/20 5:51 PM as a reply to terry.
Thanks Terry,

Does it matter that I was walking very slowly? emoticon

Maybe just another one of those experiences to file in the WTF section. 

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/2/20 6:21 PM as a reply to Brandon Dayton.
Brandon Dayton:
Thanks Terry,

Does it matter that I was walking very slowly? emoticon

Maybe just another one of those experiences to file in the WTF section. 

   Or, "a lonely impulse of delight."

t


"an irish airman foresees his death" 
(w b yeats)

I know that I shall meet my fate
Somewhere among the clouds above; 
Those that I fight I do not hate, 
Those that I guard I do not love; 
My country is Kiltartan Cross, 
My countrymen Kiltartan’s poor, 
No likely end could bring them loss 
Or leave them happier than before. 
Nor law, nor duty bade me fight, 
Nor public men, nor cheering crowds, 
A lonely impulse of delight 
Drove to this tumult in the clouds; 
I balanced all, brought all to mind, 
The years to come seemed waste of breath, 
A waste of breath the years behind 
In balance with this life, this death.

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/3/20 8:46 AM as a reply to Brandon Dayton.
If it were me, I would switch to noting practice.

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/3/20 10:17 AM as a reply to Brandon Dayton.
Brandon Dayton:
I posted this on my log, but I'm interested in some diagnosis, so I thought I'd copy it here.



What you call it and what other people call it are not really important in my opinion. 

If you believe there are certain stages which follow one another in order and you have to get to one before you can get to another and there is some benefit to advancing along that progression, then maybe it is helpful to know what stage you are in.

And it's natural to be curious as to whether you have the same experiences as other people, there is nothign wrong with that.

... But I don't practice that way. I have one stage: Observing the mind. This stage has a beginning but it doesn't have an end.

What is important about an experience like you describe, I think, is what you can do with it. How you can use it to further your understanding of things as they really are.

My suggestion is to consider the feelings you experienced.

Do they help you feel compassion and good will to other people?

How do other people react to you when you feel that way?

Do the feelings help you let go of attachments? I find when I am happy, I don't want anything, so it is easier to let go of attachments. It's not worth getting upset over things if it will interfere with happiness. 

If the feelings diminish in time, watch what happens during that process. Are there things that cause them to diminish? Can you do anything to make the feelings persist?

If you can produce happiness at will what does that tell you about happiness? Is it real or an illusion?

If the experience repeats, notice if it becomes tedious or maintains it's freshness. 

Watch your feelings and learn from them.

There are no right or wrong answers to these questions. You might change your mind at a later date. I am not asking you to reply with answers just to consider them for yourself. Certain answers don't indicated advancement or lack of advancement. They are just something that might help you use the experience to your advantage.

 

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/3/20 10:46 AM as a reply to Jim Smith.
Jim Smith:

But I don't practice that way. I have one stage: Observing the mind. This stage has a beginning but it doesn't have an end.
 

This is great stuff. I would only add - learn to discern what is "mind" and what is "MIND", or Sem and Rigpa, or avidya and vidya. A qualified teacher can be very useful in pointing out the nature of mind.

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/3/20 11:50 AM as a reply to Brandon Dayton.
Brandon Dayton:
 I'm interested in some diagnosis,




If you focus your attention on it and that causes it to intensify, like there is a feedback loop, the more you focus on it the more intense it becomes - that, in my opinion, is the essence of first jhana.

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/3/20 4:08 PM as a reply to Jim Smith.
Jim Smith:
Brandon Dayton:
 I'm interested in some diagnosis,




If you focus your attention on it and that causes it to intensify, like there is a feedback loop, the more you focus on it the more intense it becomes - that, in my opinion, is the essence of first jhana.
aloha jim,

   That begs the question: what is the essence of the second jhana? 3rd, 4th?

   Anyone?

terry

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/3/20 4:15 PM as a reply to terry.
terry:
Jim Smith:
Brandon Dayton:
 I'm interested in some diagnosis,




If you focus your attention on it and that causes it to intensify, like there is a feedback loop, the more you focus on it the more intense it becomes - that, in my opinion, is the essence of first jhana.
aloha jim,

   That begs the question: what is the essence of the second jhana? 3rd, 4th?

   Anyone?

terry

I have no clue. This is one of the reasons I dropped claiming attainments.

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/4/20 8:17 AM as a reply to Brandon Dayton.
I find your description closer to what I think of as the 2nd jhana fwiw.  The harmonics with the A&P, the sexual energy, the intense bodily sensations; all seem a lot more 2nd jhana then 1st jhana imo.  

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/4/20 9:33 AM as a reply to Sleeping Buddha Syndrome.
Sleeping Buddha Syndrome:
terry:
Jim Smith:
Brandon Dayton:
 I'm interested in some diagnosis,




If you focus your attention on it and that causes it to intensify, like there is a feedback loop, the more you focus on it the more intense it becomes - that, in my opinion, is the essence of first jhana.
aloha jim,

   That begs the question: what is the essence of the second jhana? 3rd, 4th?

   Anyone?

terry

I have no clue. This is one of the reasons I dropped claiming attainments.

aloha sbs,

   Good answer.

   I don't know what an attainment is, either.

   I think I usually find myself in jhana number two because there are no words. And it is perfectly satisfactory.

terry

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/5/20 9:46 AM as a reply to terry.
@Jim Smith -- Thanks for both the comments. I try to find a balance between using maps as guidance an allowing myself to explore (It seems like we are all individual enough, that this is the only way that really works). I think about it the same way I think about travel. I like to be a mix of a tourist and flanuer. I will look up destinations and plan to visit them, but I will also take some time to wander aimlessly and discover. Of course, there are places where I just won't waste my time with this approach. The intersection between a WalMart and a Chuck-E-Cheese in Anywherseville USA will be less worthy of my time then a side-street in Charlottesville. Maps and the knowledge of others are helpful in those cases.

Knowing that I am somewhere in the vicinity of Jhana territory is emboldening and fun, but I'm still finding lots of room to explore and make discoveries about how my particular mind works.
If you focus your attention on it and that causes it to intensify, like there is a feedback loop, the more you focus on it the more intense it becomes - that, in my opinion, is the essence of first jhana.
That seems to be a pretty good description of what was happenning.

Stirling Campbell
I would only add - learn to discern what is "mind" and what is "MIND", or Sem and Rigpa, or avidya and vidya. A qualified teacher can be very useful in pointing out the nature of mind.
Very curious about this concept. I'll look more into it. Any resources you would recommend?

Terry
That begs the question: what is the essence of the second jhana? 3rd, 4th?

   Anyone?

I could quote from different practioners teaching Jhana on what it entails, but personally I don't have any answer for that. They all seem to have very specific definitions that appear to be consistent. Are they smoking something, or are you saying something else here?

@Ben Sulksy

I've noticed the similarity to the A&P too, but it also matches the description of First Jhana as described by Braisington. Not sure what to make of that.

 

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/5/20 11:48 PM as a reply to terry.
terry:
Jim Smith:
Brandon Dayton:
 I'm interested in some diagnosis,




If you focus your attention on it and that causes it to intensify, like there is a feedback loop, the more you focus on it the more intense it becomes - that, in my opinion, is the essence of first jhana.
aloha jim,

   That begs the question: what is the essence of the second jhana? 3rd, 4th?

   Anyone?

terry

You'll see in MCTB2 Daniel claims there are variations in the jhana undertones based on visualization, intention, and depth, but those are all layered over a core progression of overtones that is (Very closely based on my own experience) followed like in the Theravada suttas.

Very briefly based on my own typical experience with Leigh Brasington type methods and with some intermediate states in () I've put here to help anyone troubleshooting:

'Access concentration': all surface narrative thinking stops while focus is resting gently on the breath. There might be some occasional sub-verbal stuff out there in the periphery of awareness but outside the spotlight of your gently unified concentration. The sub verbal stuff can be lessened by 'blipping' in and out of noting mode and noting and releasing the hindrances that are still banging around in your subconscious.

1st jhana -  piti and sukkha rise and fall to varying degrees based on how well you've established your focus, how 'clean' you've gotten your access concentration, and how well you can maintain that intention.

(1.5) - Yo-yoing briefly into 2nd jhana and then back into first, likely because you are trying to grasp at it rather than resting into and releasing into it. There's a balancing act you have to master of gently inclining towards, releasing, and resting in, but not grasping at.

2nd jhana - Boom. Off the cliff and into a positive feedback loop of piti and sukkha, but particularly piti. This is full body and full mind and will pretty much overwhelm/cover up/obliterate your focus on anything other than intention in my experience, even physical pain if you can get to this point. A mindgasm. Note: Leigh B has videos out there of people talking with him while they are allegedly in 2nd jhana, but I personally suspect they are doing a blipping in and out which I associate with what people call lighter jhana.

(2.5) - Intention shifts to letting go of piti. It peels off and you are left with a primary experience of a pleasant afterglow, but you keep getting spikes of piti. These can be kind of unpleasant yet difficult to totally let go. I don't have an especially good trick for dealing with it, just keep at it. Avoiding coffee, overstimulation, and just being generally at peace with your moral behavior before going into the meditation does seem to help.

3rd jhana - lack of piti and a full body / full mind pleasant afterglow. This is much more low key than piti. For me this is the least stable jhana. It's easy to get into oscillating between 2.5, 3, and 3.5, especially if you didn't do thorough setup in dealing with hindrances back in access concentration. A lot of times I've become of aware of problems with my setup here and had to back to access to deal with hindrances I missed.

3.5 - Something hangs and it's not quite possible to let go. Sometimes this manifests as a sharp fear that the mind identifies instinctively with death, possibly accompanied with disturbing images. More commonly, undertones of some or all the dark night themes can be present along with a feeling of mental resistance that is a bit hard to describe.

4th jhana - Finally, the gear shifts in a big way and sukkha is let go of. Sense of self drops dramatically, sense of melding with the surroundings. The peripheral subverbal stuff fades out and what is left of the periphery shifts to sense contacts in a primitive, undifferentiated state. Even that can fade out in a strong session. No pleasure or pain - instead a pervading overtone of unity, tranquility, and balance. Awareness of time is minimal to none. Focus is extreme yet effortless. This jhana feels extremely solid and stable and natural IMO. In contrast to other jhanas, it takes more effort to have an inclination (For example, to exit) than to not have an inclination. If achieved there is not much risk of dropping out or yo-yoing compared to the previous jhanas.


Well that's probably more than you asked for, but the point is the jhanas defintely have identifiable characteristic overtones that match up from practitioner to practitioner emoticon


Edit: I want to emphasize that the jhanas are realistically attainable and repeatable. You just have to develop a few tricks to deal with the trouble spots. They are very useful learning tools, and very helpful to the MCTB2 approach.

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/6/20 9:04 AM as a reply to Milo.
Milo --

That's very helpful. I just finished Braisington's book, and I've read MCTB2, but its been awhile, so it might be a good idea to review Daniel's take on the Jhanas too.

As an observation, your description seems a bit shifted from how Braisington describes things. For example, how you describe 2nd Jhana sounds like how he describes 1st Jhana. I guess its not super important, as they are all on a continuum, and where you put a number is kind of arbitrary, but how you describe 2nd Jhana is very close to what I experienced.

I've kind of expected for each Jhana to be like crossing some sort of discrete threshold after which everything stablilzes and settles, but it sounds like that's really only true, according to your description, in 4th Jhana, and everything else is more slippery. Is that accurate?

Anwyay, after my session this morning, I think it's clear that I ought to spend more time in access concentration, and start being more thoughtful of hindrances. I kind of just barrelled into my practice and it was pretty sloppy. 

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/6/20 12:47 PM as a reply to Brandon Dayton.
I believe MCTB2 mentions that which jhanas are most distinct might vary a bit from practitioner to practitioner, and this is N=1. I'd be interested to hear some other reports to add to the dataset. 

For me personally, 2nd and 4th are the most distinct and stable while 3rd is the least and tends to be simultaneously hardest to stabilize and to progress from. What I mean is that if my intention is to go to 3rd jhana there is a tendency to instead wander between 2.5, 3, and 3.5 and it is more difficult to either achieve a stable 3 or move to 4. So the territory of each jhana is very distinct but it can be more or less challenging to stabilize in that territory without oscillating between that and the adjacent jhanas.

As far as my map being shifted from Leigh B's, that may well be the case. For what it's worth, in my reading of the suttas, 1st and 2nd jhanas are mainly differentiated by the need to apply sustained effort to maintain them. I don't think it's terribly important to outcomes if you draw the line a bit differently though.

As you implied, 4th jhana just seems to be a whole other beast and that I think is why it was elaborated on so much with the formless jhanas. It is a territory within the territory.

I do think you will get far by working on your setup and hindrances in access concentration. That has been a goldmine for better jhanas for me and made me appreciate the relation between morality and better concentration as well (Which is not to say you shouldn't be moral anyway, but it does have concentration benefits.

Metta : )

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/8/20 2:08 PM as a reply to Milo.
Milo:
terry:
Jim Smith:
Brandon Dayton:
 I'm interested in some diagnosis,




If you focus your attention on it and that causes it to intensify, like there is a feedback loop, the more you focus on it the more intense it becomes - that, in my opinion, is the essence of first jhana.
aloha jim,

   That begs the question: what is the essence of the second jhana? 3rd, 4th?

   Anyone?

terry

You'll see in MCTB2 Daniel claims there are variations in the jhana undertones based on visualization, intention, and depth, but those are all layered over a core progression of overtones that is (Very closely based on my own experience) followed like in the Theravada suttas.

Very briefly based on my own typical experience with Leigh Brasington type methods and with some intermediate states in () I've put here to help anyone troubleshooting:

'Access concentration': all surface narrative thinking stops while focus is resting gently on the breath. There might be some occasional sub-verbal stuff out there in the periphery of awareness but outside the spotlight of your gently unified concentration. The sub verbal stuff can be lessened by 'blipping' in and out of noting mode and noting and releasing the hindrances that are still banging around in your subconscious.

1st jhana -  piti and sukkha rise and fall to varying degrees based on how well you've established your focus, how 'clean' you've gotten your access concentration, and how well you can maintain that intention.

(1.5) - Yo-yoing briefly into 2nd jhana and then back into first, likely because you are trying to grasp at it rather than resting into and releasing into it. There's a balancing act you have to master of gently inclining towards, releasing, and resting in, but not grasping at.

2nd jhana - Boom. Off the cliff and into a positive feedback loop of piti and sukkha, but particularly piti. This is full body and full mind and will pretty much overwhelm/cover up/obliterate your focus on anything other than intention in my experience, even physical pain if you can get to this point. A mindgasm. Note: Leigh B has videos out there of people talking with him while they are allegedly in 2nd jhana, but I personally suspect they are doing a blipping in and out which I associate with what people call lighter jhana.

(2.5) - Intention shifts to letting go of piti. It peels off and you are left with a primary experience of a pleasant afterglow, but you keep getting spikes of piti. These can be kind of unpleasant yet difficult to totally let go. I don't have an especially good trick for dealing with it, just keep at it. Avoiding coffee, overstimulation, and just being generally at peace with your moral behavior before going into the meditation does seem to help.

3rd jhana - lack of piti and a full body / full mind pleasant afterglow. This is much more low key than piti. For me this is the least stable jhana. It's easy to get into oscillating between 2.5, 3, and 3.5, especially if you didn't do thorough setup in dealing with hindrances back in access concentration. A lot of times I've become of aware of problems with my setup here and had to back to access to deal with hindrances I missed.

3.5 - Something hangs and it's not quite possible to let go. Sometimes this manifests as a sharp fear that the mind identifies instinctively with death, possibly accompanied with disturbing images. More commonly, undertones of some or all the dark night themes can be present along with a feeling of mental resistance that is a bit hard to describe.

4th jhana - Finally, the gear shifts in a big way and sukkha is let go of. Sense of self drops dramatically, sense of melding with the surroundings. The peripheral subverbal stuff fades out and what is left of the periphery shifts to sense contacts in a primitive, undifferentiated state. Even that can fade out in a strong session. No pleasure or pain - instead a pervading overtone of unity, tranquility, and balance. Awareness of time is minimal to none. Focus is extreme yet effortless. This jhana feels extremely solid and stable and natural IMO. In contrast to other jhanas, it takes more effort to have an inclination (For example, to exit) than to not have an inclination. If achieved there is not much risk of dropping out or yo-yoing compared to the previous jhanas.


Well that's probably more than you asked for, but the point is the jhanas defintely have identifiable characteristic overtones that match up from practitioner to practitioner emoticon


Edit: I want to emphasize that the jhanas are realistically attainable and repeatable. You just have to develop a few tricks to deal with the trouble spots. They are very useful learning tools, and very helpful to the MCTB2 approach.


aloha milo,

   Thank you very much, that is exactly what I asked for. It's a bit analytical for me, since I don't hang out in the "noting" mind much at all, and avoid it when it comes up.

   It tracks pretty well with my experience, though. I hang out in the second and don't have much ambition to progress. I have flickers of the higher ones.

   I agree that these states are common to meditators and relatively obvious with experience. Pinning them down, though, can be like pinning down worms. Thanks again for your effort.

terry

RE: First Jhana?
Answer
3/8/20 2:57 PM as a reply to Milo.
Milo:
I believe MCTB2 mentions that which jhanas are most distinct might vary a bit from practitioner to practitioner, and this is N=1. I'd be interested to hear some other reports to add to the dataset. 

For me personally, 2nd and 4th are the most distinct and stable while 3rd is the least and tends to be simultaneously hardest to stabilize and to progress from. What I mean is that if my intention is to go to 3rd jhana there is a tendency to instead wander between 2.5, 3, and 3.5 and it is more difficult to either achieve a stable 3 or move to 4. So the territory of each jhana is very distinct but it can be more or less challenging to stabilize in that territory without oscillating between that and the adjacent jhanas.

As far as my map being shifted from Leigh B's, that may well be the case. For what it's worth, in my reading of the suttas, 1st and 2nd jhanas are mainly differentiated by the need to apply sustained effort to maintain them. I don't think it's terribly important to outcomes if you draw the line a bit differently though.

As you implied, 4th jhana just seems to be a whole other beast and that I think is why it was elaborated on so much with the formless jhanas. It is a territory within the territory.

I do think you will get far by working on your setup and hindrances in access concentration. That has been a goldmine for better jhanas for me and made me appreciate the relation between morality and better concentration as well (Which is not to say you shouldn't be moral anyway, but it does have concentration benefits.

Metta : )

thus have I heard:



from the majjhma nikaya, *Sallekha Sutta; Effacement":
(suttacentral website/goldmine)



The Eight Attainments


“It is possible here, Cunda, that quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, some bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the first jhāna, which is accompanied by applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion. He might think thus: ‘I am abiding in effacement. ’ But it is not these attainments that are called ‘effacement’ in the Noble One’s Discipline: these are called ‘pleasant abidings here and now’ in the Noble One’s Discipline.

“It is possible here that with the stilling of applied and sustained thought, some bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the second jhāna, which has self-confidence and singleness of mind without applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of concentration. He might think thus: ‘I am abiding in effacement.’ But…these are called ‘pleasant abidings here and now’ in the Noble One’s Discipline.

“It is possible here that with the fading away as well of rapture, some bhikkhu abides in equanimity, and mindful and fully aware, still feeling pleasure with the body, he enters upon and abides in the third jhāna, on account of which noble ones announce: ‘He has a pleasant abiding who has equanimity and is mindful.’ He might think thus: ‘I am abiding in effacement.’ But…these are called ‘pleasant abidings here and now’ in the Noble One’s Discipline.

“It is possible here that with the abandoning of pleasure and pain, and with the previous disappearance of joy and grief, some bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the fourth jhāna, which has neither-pain-nor-pleasure and purity of mindfulness due to equanimity. He might think thus: ‘I am abiding in effacement.’ But it is not these attainments that are called ‘effacement’ in the Noble One’s Discipline: these are called ‘pleasant abidings here and now’ in the Noble One’s Discipline.

“It is possible here that with the complete surmounting of perceptions of form, with the disappearance of perceptions of sensory impact, with non-attention to perceptions of diversity, aware that ‘space is infinite,’ some bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the base of infinite space. He might think thus: ‘I am abiding in effacement.’ But it is not these attainments that are called ‘effacement’ in the Noble One’s Discipline: these are called ‘peaceful abidings’ in the Noble One’s Discipline.

“It is possible here that by completely surmounting the base of infinite space, aware that ‘consciousness is infinite,’ some bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the base of infinite consciousness. He might think thus: ‘I am abiding in effacement.’ But…these are called ‘peaceful abidings’ in the Noble One’s Discipline.

“It is possible here that by completely surmounting the base of infinite consciousness, aware that ‘there is nothing,’ some bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the base of nothingness. He might think thus: ‘I am abiding in effacement.’ But…these are called ‘peaceful abidings’ in the Noble One’s Discipline.

“It is possible here that by completely surmounting the base of nothingness, some bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the base of neither-perception-nor-non-perception. He might think thus: ‘I am abiding in effacement.’ But these attainments are not called ‘effacement’ in the Noble One’s Discipline: these are called ‘peaceful abidings’ in the Noble One’s Discipline.



Effacement

“Now, Cunda, here effacement should be practised by you:

(1) ‘Others will be cruel; we shall not be cruel here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(2) ‘Others will kill living beings; we shall abstain from killing living beings here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(3) ‘Others will take what is not given; we shall abstain from taking what is not given here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(4) ‘Others will be uncelibate; we shall be celibate here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(5) ‘Others will speak falsehood; we shall abstain from false speech here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(6) ‘Others will speak maliciously; we shall abstain from malicious speech here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(7) ‘Others will speak harshly; we shall abstain from harsh speech here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(8) ‘Others will gossip; we shall abstain from gossip here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(9) ‘Others will be covetous; we shall be uncovetous here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(10) ‘Others will have ill will; we shall be without ill will here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(11) ‘Others will be of wrong view; we shall be of right view here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(12) ‘Others will be of wrong intention; we shall be of right intention here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(13) ‘Others will be of wrong speech; we shall be of right speech here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(14) ‘Others will be of wrong action; we shall be of right action here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(15) ‘Others will be of wrong livelihood; we shall be of right livelihood here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(16) ‘Others will be of wrong effort; we shall be of right effort here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(17) ‘Others will be of wrong mindfulness; we shall be of right mindfulness here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(18) ‘Others will be of wrong concentration; we shall be of right concentration here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(19) ‘Others will be of wrong knowledge; we shall be of right knowledge here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(20) ‘Others will be of wrong deliverance; we shall be of right deliverance here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(21) ‘Others will be overcome by sloth and torpor; we shall be free from sloth and torpor here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(22) ‘Others will be restless; we shall not be restless here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(23) ‘Others will be doubters; we shall go beyond doubt here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(24) ‘Others will be angry; we shall not be angry here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(25) ‘Others will be resentful; we shall not be resentful here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(26) ‘Others will be contemptuous; we shall not be contemptuous here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(27) ‘Others will be insolent; we shall not be insolent here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(28) ‘Others will be envious; we shall not be envious here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(29) ‘Others will be avaricious; we shall not be avaricious here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(30) ‘Others will be fraudulent; we shall not be fraudulent here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(31) ‘Others will be deceitful; we shall not be deceitful here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(32) ‘Others will be obstinate; we shall not be obstinate here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(33) ‘Others will be arrogant; we shall not be arrogant here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(34) ‘Others will be difficult to admonish; we shall be easy to admonish here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(35) ‘Others will have bad friends; we shall have good friends here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(36) ‘Others will be negligent; we shall be diligent here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(37) ‘Others will be faithless; we shall be faithful here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(38) ‘Others will be shameless; we shall be shameful here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(39) ‘Others will have no fear of wrongdoing; we shall be afraid of wrongdoing here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(40) ‘Others will be of little learning; we shall be of great learning here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(41) ‘Others will be lazy; we shall be energetic here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(42) ‘Others will be unmindful; we shall be established in mindfulness here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(43) ‘Others will lack wisdom; we shall possess wisdom here’: effacement should be practised thus.
(44) ‘Others will adhere to their own views, hold on to them tenaciously, and relinquish them with difficulty; we shall not adhere to our own views or hold on to them tenaciously, but shall relinquish them easily’: effacement should be practised thus.