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Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/21/20 3:23 AM
Over the past two months, I have been following some very unusual practices concealed as an RPG by one Jenna Moran. 

Please note that:
1: I am not a technical mediatator, and have only been doing this for about two months. 
2: These techniques are highly unusual, as almost all of them manifest as a direct shift in perception, requiring no effort whatsoever to sustain: in fact, many of the effects appear permanent.

These appear to manifest in the following stages: 
A1: Conformity of Principles to Mind And Body 
The recognition that the percieved immaterial self must manifest itself through the body arises and becomes incontrovertible. 
This gives rise to the first of the Five Right Efforts, Conviction. 

A2: Conformity of Principles To Cause And Effect
The recognition that the percieved immutable self must be able to change over time arises and becomes incontrovertible. 
This gives rise to the second of the Five Right Efforts, Energy. 

A3: Conformity of Principles to The Three Characteristics 
The recognition that our principles are flawed arises and becomes incontrovertible. This gives rise to the third of the Five Right Efforts, Mindfulness. 

A4: Arising And Passing Away of Principles.
We assemble the Three Characteristics into a coherent whole. Principle is material; principle is impermanent; principle is flawed. Therefore, we cannot rely on whatever we had until now been putting our faith in. This grants us our first measure of the fourth Right Effort, Equanimity.

A5: Knowledge of Dissolution of Principles.
We cannot assure ourselves that we will reach immortality by our belief in principle any longer. We gain a measure of the fifth Right Effort, Wisdom, and then proceed to try and deny what we have learned.

A6: Fear for Principles.
We try to convince ourselves that our beliefs will somehow save us. When we let go of our attachment to the immaterial, we fall into...

P.6: Misery from Dissolution of Principles.
We try to convince ourselves that we aren't impermanent. When we let go our attachment to permanence, we fall into...

P.7: Disgust from Dissolution of Principles.
We get completely fed up with ourselves for clinging to a dream even after waking. Usually this anger is displaced onto whatever's handy at the moment. When we finally let go, we fall into...

P.8: Equanimity to Principle
The fundamentally nondual nature of experience is directly percieved as an abrupt and lasting cessation of the concept of "meaning." This appears to be a partial extinguishment of the poison of Confusion. 

This whole 8-step process appears to be equivalent to the first Visspassna Jhana. 

Conformity here produces a subject-object shift regarding our principles, excluding them from our selfconcept. Following this path, we can repeat this 8-step process for aversion and passion as well, producing the following sequence at a second, deeper meta level:

B1: Dissolution of Principle
B2: Dissolution of Passion
The A&P here involved an insight into Maya.
This feels somewhat like dying and being reborn: ritual examinination here can tell us what we would regret if we died at this moment. After this, our dreams are more tempered by wisdom rather than childish whimsy.

B3: Dissolution of Aversion
This feels extremely like dying and being reborn: our social "character" "dies", which feels in the moment like a depression so deep as to prevent anything but disgust from arising. Ritual examination of your own character in this state can reveal deep flaws you are surpressing your own knowledge of.

B4/C1: Dissolution of Social Role 
We "die" again, but this time it feels like a release: we don't have to "stay in character" anymore! 

The resultant altered state is very strange, as it has passion, aversion and principle, but no capacity to predict the future or assess uncertainty. Secondary inner narration is partially surpressed, as is any concept of social norms. It feels like there just isn't anything to worry about for the first 15 minutes or so, and then it becomes unsettling. Fortunately, we can drop this state by simply willing the future back. 

At this point, our past becomes an object to us: our autobiographical identity and the parts of our history that belong to "us" fall under our control. This pushes us into a third meta level...

C2: Dissolution of the Inner Narrator
Having noticed that we are telling ourselves a story about who we are, we can decide to stop telling that story. This shuts off our inner narrator, demonstrating that it is not us. 

C3: Dissolution of the Inner Observer
Having noticed that the inner narrator is not self, we begin to suspect that the inner observer is not self either. Deliberate surpression of it results in our turning off and on our body's proprioception more or less at will.

C4/D1: Dissolution of Temporal Causation
Having noticed that time and sensation are illusion from earlier paths, we dissipate the "cause" of "cause and effect", making us attribute events in the now to causes in the future. 

D2: Dissolution Of Aversion To Lost Time
Noticing that our memories and perceptions are actively modified by our desires, we can notice our own difficulty noticing our flaws. Direct attack on this results in bursts of what I believe to be hard pain, followed by a sense of something breaking and a fall into a gentle, complacent, very fine-sensing state with mild sensory numbness, no aversion to anything, and no dissatisfaction with pleasure. I had the best ham sandwich of my life, and am now aware that I've never really tasted food. This state also appears to eliminate refractory period, and can be maintained at no cost for some hours. Unfortunately, I've been as of yet unable to deliberately get back here. Sigh. 

After this, a series of pieces of memory need to be manually re-accessed: do not do without a spotter! I completely forgot my girlfriend of three years existed until I was reminded.

D3: Dissolution of Visual Stimuli
Now that we have the ability to not be averse to seeing perceptual distortion, we can mindfully investigate our own concept of how vision works according to a given script, flicking rapidly through a number of interesting states (one of which renders attention directly visible as a moving spot, one of which causes everything to shift and blur in small circles when the attention is held on an object). The ending state allows concentration to produce a disk with blue at the center, yellow surrounding it, and red fuzzing at the edges. Most of this is mediated by pains in the neck and upper right shoulder. 

Similar processes are done for kinaesthetics, temperature, emotion/posture, and "electric" perception (waveforms), ending in complete access to proprioception, demeanour and emotional "vibe." From here, a sweep of steadily worsening nausea caused by throwing out my inner ear alerted me to the fact I was in dissolution: as a result, I dropped out of the state entirely, and was greeted with a sharp pain in my chest just above my heart. 

It was at this point that I realized I still hadn't torn apart the process in me that was causing me to lose time, so I went and attacked it and managed to kill it. 

After this, it gets a bit difficult to describe, as formations began to arise without my knowing what they were: after four or so further rounds of work, I began to realize the renewed pain in my neck was spherical, and, in fact, I could think of any sensation as being a sphere. When I began to notice this, the sphere stopped existing, along with the pain. Using the formations I had already learned as sense-spheres, I methodically went through and denied each and every sensation "I" was experiencing, which eventually led to a state with no passion, no aversion, and no volition, just a distant sense of intent that happened to move my body. My spotter became very concerned by my flat affect, and pulled me "back down" after less time than I would have liked: I feel that I could have gotten a true fruition there, but given their concern I decided to drop out of the state. Sigh.

Nonetheless, I feel that I have gained a certain degree of equanimity to formations now.

My meditation partner reached a different state, which appeared to be one of the formless jhanas, an interior world they could mess about in, by swapping a spherical formation representing their identity with the spherical formation representing the sensory world. 

I think I haven't hit a Fruition yet, but many of these insights and associated "psychic powers" are very interesting, and I would love any comments.

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/21/20 3:11 PM as a reply to Evangeline Rose Ingram.
Evangeline Rose Ingram:
Over the past two months, I have been following some very unusual practices concealed as an RPG by one Jenna Moran. 

Please note that:
1: I am not a technical mediatator, and have only been doing this for about two months. 
2: These techniques are highly unusual, as almost all of them manifest as a direct shift in perception, requiring no effort whatsoever to sustain: in fact, many of the effects appear permanent.

These appear to manifest in the following stages: 
A1: Conformity of Principles to Mind And Body 
The recognition that the percieved immaterial self must manifest itself through the body arises and becomes incontrovertible. 
This gives rise to the first of the Five Right Efforts, Conviction. 

A2: Conformity of Principles To Cause And Effect
The recognition that the percieved immutable self must be able to change over time arises and becomes incontrovertible. 
This gives rise to the second of the Five Right Efforts, Energy. 

A3: Conformity of Principles to The Three Characteristics 
The recognition that our principles are flawed arises and becomes incontrovertible. This gives rise to the third of the Five Right Efforts, Mindfulness. 

A4: Arising And Passing Away of Principles.
We assemble the Three Characteristics into a coherent whole. Principle is material; principle is impermanent; principle is flawed. Therefore, we cannot rely on whatever we had until now been putting our faith in. This grants us our first measure of the fourth Right Effort, Equanimity.

A5: Knowledge of Dissolution of Principles.
We cannot assure ourselves that we will reach immortality by our belief in principle any longer. We gain a measure of the fifth Right Effort, Wisdom, and then proceed to try and deny what we have learned.

A6: Fear for Principles.
We try to convince ourselves that our beliefs will somehow save us. When we let go of our attachment to the immaterial, we fall into...

P.6: Misery from Dissolution of Principles.
We try to convince ourselves that we aren't impermanent. When we let go our attachment to permanence, we fall into...

P.7: Disgust from Dissolution of Principles.
We get completely fed up with ourselves for clinging to a dream even after waking. Usually this anger is displaced onto whatever's handy at the moment. When we finally let go, we fall into...

P.8: Equanimity to Principle
The fundamentally nondual nature of experience is directly percieved as an abrupt and lasting cessation of the concept of "meaning." This appears to be a partial extinguishment of the poison of Confusion. 

This whole 8-step process appears to be equivalent to the first Visspassna Jhana. 

Conformity here produces a subject-object shift regarding our principles, excluding them from our selfconcept. Following this path, we can repeat this 8-step process for aversion and passion as well, producing the following sequence at a second, deeper meta level:

B1: Dissolution of Principle
B2: Dissolution of Passion
The A&P here involved an insight into Maya.
This feels somewhat like dying and being reborn: ritual examinination here can tell us what we would regret if we died at this moment. After this, our dreams are more tempered by wisdom rather than childish whimsy.

B3: Dissolution of Aversion
This feels extremely like dying and being reborn: our social "character" "dies", which feels in the moment like a depression so deep as to prevent anything but disgust from arising. Ritual examination of your own character in this state can reveal deep flaws you are surpressing your own knowledge of.

B4/C1: Dissolution of Social Role 
We "die" again, but this time it feels like a release: we don't have to "stay in character" anymore! 

The resultant altered state is very strange, as it has passion, aversion and principle, but no capacity to predict the future or assess uncertainty. Secondary inner narration is partially surpressed, as is any concept of social norms. It feels like there just isn't anything to worry about for the first 15 minutes or so, and then it becomes unsettling. Fortunately, we can drop this state by simply willing the future back. 

At this point, our past becomes an object to us: our autobiographical identity and the parts of our history that belong to "us" fall under our control. This pushes us into a third meta level...

C2: Dissolution of the Inner Narrator
Having noticed that we are telling ourselves a story about who we are, we can decide to stop telling that story. This shuts off our inner narrator, demonstrating that it is not us. 

C3: Dissolution of the Inner Observer
Having noticed that the inner narrator is not self, we begin to suspect that the inner observer is not self either. Deliberate surpression of it results in our turning off and on our body's proprioception more or less at will.

C4/D1: Dissolution of Temporal Causation
Having noticed that time and sensation are illusion from earlier paths, we dissipate the "cause" of "cause and effect", making us attribute events in the now to causes in the future. 

D2: Dissolution Of Aversion To Lost Time
Noticing that our memories and perceptions are actively modified by our desires, we can notice our own difficulty noticing our flaws. Direct attack on this results in bursts of what I believe to be hard pain, followed by a sense of something breaking and a fall into a gentle, complacent, very fine-sensing state with mild sensory numbness, no aversion to anything, and no dissatisfaction with pleasure. I had the best ham sandwich of my life, and am now aware that I've never really tasted food. This state also appears to eliminate refractory period, and can be maintained at no cost for some hours. Unfortunately, I've been as of yet unable to deliberately get back here. Sigh. 

After this, a series of pieces of memory need to be manually re-accessed: do not do without a spotter! I completely forgot my girlfriend of three years existed until I was reminded.

D3: Dissolution of Visual Stimuli
Now that we have the ability to not be averse to seeing perceptual distortion, we can mindfully investigate our own concept of how vision works according to a given script, flicking rapidly through a number of interesting states (one of which renders attention directly visible as a moving spot, one of which causes everything to shift and blur in small circles when the attention is held on an object). The ending state allows concentration to produce a disk with blue at the center, yellow surrounding it, and red fuzzing at the edges. Most of this is mediated by pains in the neck and upper right shoulder. 

Similar processes are done for kinaesthetics, temperature, emotion/posture, and "electric" perception (waveforms), ending in complete access to proprioception, demeanour and emotional "vibe." From here, a sweep of steadily worsening nausea caused by throwing out my inner ear alerted me to the fact I was in dissolution: as a result, I dropped out of the state entirely, and was greeted with a sharp pain in my chest just above my heart. 

It was at this point that I realized I still hadn't torn apart the process in me that was causing me to lose time, so I went and attacked it and managed to kill it. 

After this, it gets a bit difficult to describe, as formations began to arise without my knowing what they were: after four or so further rounds of work, I began to realize the renewed pain in my neck was spherical, and, in fact, I could think of any sensation as being a sphere. When I began to notice this, the sphere stopped existing, along with the pain. Using the formations I had already learned as sense-spheres, I methodically went through and denied each and every sensation "I" was experiencing, which eventually led to a state with no passion, no aversion, and no volition, just a distant sense of intent that happened to move my body. My spotter became very concerned by my flat affect, and pulled me "back down" after less time than I would have liked: I feel that I could have gotten a true fruition there, but given their concern I decided to drop out of the state. Sigh.

Nonetheless, I feel that I have gained a certain degree of equanimity to formations now.

My meditation partner reached a different state, which appeared to be one of the formless jhanas, an interior world they could mess about in, by swapping a spherical formation representing their identity with the spherical formation representing the sensory world. 

I think I haven't hit a Fruition yet, but many of these insights and associated "psychic powers" are very interesting, and I would love any comments.
aloha eri,

   You lost me at "perceived immaterial self." What do you suppose such a thing might be? How does one perceive an immaterial thing? This is the essence of non-self in buddhism, that it cannot be found in anything, anywhere.

   If one does not grant your premise, that of self perception, the rest does not follow. If such a self did exist, it could only be inferred, not perceived. One may of course infer all sorts of things that could never exist, proceeding from conception to generation to world creation.

terry

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/21/20 3:12 PM as a reply to terry.
terry:
Evangeline Rose Ingram:
Over the past two months, I have been following some very unusual practices concealed as an RPG by one Jenna Moran. 

Please note that:
1: I am not a technical mediatator, and have only been doing this for about two months. 
2: These techniques are highly unusual, as almost all of them manifest as a direct shift in perception, requiring no effort whatsoever to sustain: in fact, many of the effects appear permanent.

These appear to manifest in the following stages: 
A1: Conformity of Principles to Mind And Body 
The recognition that the percieved immaterial self must manifest itself through the body arises and becomes incontrovertible. 
This gives rise to the first of the Five Right Efforts, Conviction. 

A2: Conformity of Principles To Cause And Effect
The recognition that the percieved immutable self must be able to change over time arises and becomes incontrovertible. 
This gives rise to the second of the Five Right Efforts, Energy. 

A3: Conformity of Principles to The Three Characteristics 
The recognition that our principles are flawed arises and becomes incontrovertible. This gives rise to the third of the Five Right Efforts, Mindfulness. 

A4: Arising And Passing Away of Principles.
We assemble the Three Characteristics into a coherent whole. Principle is material; principle is impermanent; principle is flawed. Therefore, we cannot rely on whatever we had until now been putting our faith in. This grants us our first measure of the fourth Right Effort, Equanimity.

A5: Knowledge of Dissolution of Principles.
We cannot assure ourselves that we will reach immortality by our belief in principle any longer. We gain a measure of the fifth Right Effort, Wisdom, and then proceed to try and deny what we have learned.

A6: Fear for Principles.
We try to convince ourselves that our beliefs will somehow save us. When we let go of our attachment to the immaterial, we fall into...

P.6: Misery from Dissolution of Principles.
We try to convince ourselves that we aren't impermanent. When we let go our attachment to permanence, we fall into...

P.7: Disgust from Dissolution of Principles.
We get completely fed up with ourselves for clinging to a dream even after waking. Usually this anger is displaced onto whatever's handy at the moment. When we finally let go, we fall into...

P.8: Equanimity to Principle
The fundamentally nondual nature of experience is directly percieved as an abrupt and lasting cessation of the concept of "meaning." This appears to be a partial extinguishment of the poison of Confusion. 

This whole 8-step process appears to be equivalent to the first Visspassna Jhana. 

Conformity here produces a subject-object shift regarding our principles, excluding them from our selfconcept. Following this path, we can repeat this 8-step process for aversion and passion as well, producing the following sequence at a second, deeper meta level:

B1: Dissolution of Principle
B2: Dissolution of Passion
The A&P here involved an insight into Maya.
This feels somewhat like dying and being reborn: ritual examinination here can tell us what we would regret if we died at this moment. After this, our dreams are more tempered by wisdom rather than childish whimsy.

B3: Dissolution of Aversion
This feels extremely like dying and being reborn: our social "character" "dies", which feels in the moment like a depression so deep as to prevent anything but disgust from arising. Ritual examination of your own character in this state can reveal deep flaws you are surpressing your own knowledge of.

B4/C1: Dissolution of Social Role 
We "die" again, but this time it feels like a release: we don't have to "stay in character" anymore! 

The resultant altered state is very strange, as it has passion, aversion and principle, but no capacity to predict the future or assess uncertainty. Secondary inner narration is partially surpressed, as is any concept of social norms. It feels like there just isn't anything to worry about for the first 15 minutes or so, and then it becomes unsettling. Fortunately, we can drop this state by simply willing the future back. 

At this point, our past becomes an object to us: our autobiographical identity and the parts of our history that belong to "us" fall under our control. This pushes us into a third meta level...

C2: Dissolution of the Inner Narrator
Having noticed that we are telling ourselves a story about who we are, we can decide to stop telling that story. This shuts off our inner narrator, demonstrating that it is not us. 

C3: Dissolution of the Inner Observer
Having noticed that the inner narrator is not self, we begin to suspect that the inner observer is not self either. Deliberate surpression of it results in our turning off and on our body's proprioception more or less at will.

C4/D1: Dissolution of Temporal Causation
Having noticed that time and sensation are illusion from earlier paths, we dissipate the "cause" of "cause and effect", making us attribute events in the now to causes in the future. 

D2: Dissolution Of Aversion To Lost Time
Noticing that our memories and perceptions are actively modified by our desires, we can notice our own difficulty noticing our flaws. Direct attack on this results in bursts of what I believe to be hard pain, followed by a sense of something breaking and a fall into a gentle, complacent, very fine-sensing state with mild sensory numbness, no aversion to anything, and no dissatisfaction with pleasure. I had the best ham sandwich of my life, and am now aware that I've never really tasted food. This state also appears to eliminate refractory period, and can be maintained at no cost for some hours. Unfortunately, I've been as of yet unable to deliberately get back here. Sigh. 

After this, a series of pieces of memory need to be manually re-accessed: do not do without a spotter! I completely forgot my girlfriend of three years existed until I was reminded.

D3: Dissolution of Visual Stimuli
Now that we have the ability to not be averse to seeing perceptual distortion, we can mindfully investigate our own concept of how vision works according to a given script, flicking rapidly through a number of interesting states (one of which renders attention directly visible as a moving spot, one of which causes everything to shift and blur in small circles when the attention is held on an object). The ending state allows concentration to produce a disk with blue at the center, yellow surrounding it, and red fuzzing at the edges. Most of this is mediated by pains in the neck and upper right shoulder. 

Similar processes are done for kinaesthetics, temperature, emotion/posture, and "electric" perception (waveforms), ending in complete access to proprioception, demeanour and emotional "vibe." From here, a sweep of steadily worsening nausea caused by throwing out my inner ear alerted me to the fact I was in dissolution: as a result, I dropped out of the state entirely, and was greeted with a sharp pain in my chest just above my heart. 

It was at this point that I realized I still hadn't torn apart the process in me that was causing me to lose time, so I went and attacked it and managed to kill it. 

After this, it gets a bit difficult to describe, as formations began to arise without my knowing what they were: after four or so further rounds of work, I began to realize the renewed pain in my neck was spherical, and, in fact, I could think of any sensation as being a sphere. When I began to notice this, the sphere stopped existing, along with the pain. Using the formations I had already learned as sense-spheres, I methodically went through and denied each and every sensation "I" was experiencing, which eventually led to a state with no passion, no aversion, and no volition, just a distant sense of intent that happened to move my body. My spotter became very concerned by my flat affect, and pulled me "back down" after less time than I would have liked: I feel that I could have gotten a true fruition there, but given their concern I decided to drop out of the state. Sigh.

Nonetheless, I feel that I have gained a certain degree of equanimity to formations now.

My meditation partner reached a different state, which appeared to be one of the formless jhanas, an interior world they could mess about in, by swapping a spherical formation representing their identity with the spherical formation representing the sensory world. 

I think I haven't hit a Fruition yet, but many of these insights and associated "psychic powers" are very interesting, and I would love any comments.
aloha eri,

   You lost me at "perceived immaterial self." What do you suppose such a thing might be? How does one perceive an immaterial thing? This is the essence of non-self in buddhism, that it cannot be found in anything, anywhere.

   If one does not grant your premise, that of self perception, the rest does not follow. If such a self did exist, it could only be inferred, not perceived. One may of course infer all sorts of things that could never exist, proceeding from conception to generation to world creation.

terry

an immutable self that changes over time...I'm afraid to read further...

t

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/21/20 5:02 PM as a reply to terry.
> Over the past two months, I have been following some very unusual practices concealed as an RPG by one Jenna Moran. 

What is the game? I think she has more than one?

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/21/20 6:06 PM as a reply to John H.
John H:
> Over the past two months, I have been following some very unusual practices concealed as an RPG by one Jenna Moran. 

What is the game? I think she has more than one?


and here I thought she concealed her practices in a rocket propelled grenade...

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/22/20 12:51 PM as a reply to Evangeline Rose Ingram.
Evangeline Rose Ingram:
Over the past two months, I have been following some very unusual practices concealed as an RPG by one Jenna Moran.

I'd also love to know which of her games you got that from and what pages, if you don't mind.

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/22/20 4:42 PM as a reply to Evangeline Rose Ingram.
Evangeline Rose Ingram:
Over the past two months, I have been following some very unusual practices concealed as an RPG by one Jenna Moran.

Is the game Wisher, Theurgist, Fatalist aka WTF?

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/22/20 5:22 PM as a reply to Jigme Sengye.
Chuubo's Marvellous Wish Granting Engine. Read the Setting portion backwards, from the end to the beginning; she uses the eight colors to represent sense spheres, the eight being:
Orange: Wind, Conviction, directed will, point-to-point movement, anger, "electric" sensation.
Purple: Fire, Energy, work, connection, movement or motion in general, the passage of time, intimate or casual mood, heat. 
Green: Earth, Mindfulness, containers, weight, boundaries of solids, "seductive" mood, proprioception.
Silver: Water, Wisdom, "seeing" flows, shapes, ettiquette, "closed" mood, grief, cold.

Red: Hollow - that which "shouldn't exist but does": Aversion, disliking, the experience of pain in some cases, generally our Shadow, the past, our social role, inner narrator. 
Yellow: Aether - "spiritual energy" - Passion, obsession, being "in our element", loving-kindness, wishful thinking, dream logic, refusal of the necessary, "self-view"
Blue: Nothing - that which "doesn't exist but should": models, moral bindings, idealism, "must", "should", attachment from wanting-to-want against our true desires, the impact of others' mistaken beliefs on us. 
Black: [ ] - humor, getting over things, unattachment, true knowledge of "self" as an integrated part of all perceptions and not isolated to any particular sense door, true knowledge of our own fallible and mortal natures. 

You need to read the text as symbolic of the actions, but it works, it's there, and it's reproducible: I've pushed two others at least partially through this sequence. I'll compile a few of the more arcane procedures in clear english once I have charged my phone!

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/22/20 5:34 PM as a reply to Jigme Sengye.
WTF was useful at a couple points, generally during phases where I was gaining more insight into Maya, but it is not the path, merely a specific and important chunk of it. CMWGE is the resource I'm pulling from. 

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/22/20 5:51 PM as a reply to terry.
Apologies for my imprecision with the language, Terry; I'm not actually Buddhist. Clearly it's impossible to actually percieve an immaterial self, but many natural arisings, particularly those of Earth and Hollow, are easily misinterpreted as "belonging" to "us." These procedures go through layer by layer, killing individual perceptions we thought were "self" and thus forcing "us" to less and less tenable refuges. I don't claim to have shed self-view or anything, but "me" sure as hell isn't my inner narration, my proprioception, my perception of the passage of time, etc, etc. I believe myself to therefore be less wrong than I was, though the habit of "I" is a damn stubborn one!

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/23/20 12:22 AM as a reply to Evangeline Rose Ingram.
Evangeline Rose Ingram:
Apologies for my imprecision with the language, Terry; I'm not actually Buddhist. Clearly it's impossible to actually percieve an immaterial self, but many natural arisings, particularly those of Earth and Hollow, are easily misinterpreted as "belonging" to "us." These procedures go through layer by layer, killing individual perceptions we thought were "self" and thus forcing "us" to less and less tenable refuges. I don't claim to have shed self-view or anything, but "me" sure as hell isn't my inner narration, my proprioception, my perception of the passage of time, etc, etc. I believe myself to therefore be less wrong than I was, though the habit of "I" is a damn stubborn one!

   God has 99 beautiful names, all immaterial. Beyond perception, but not beyond gnosis. (I'm not actually a buddhist either.) I am sympathetic with your view as you express it here. Precision of language is important, though. 

  Perhaps the fact that I don't know a role playing game from a rocket propelled grenade has something to do with it. (wink)

  I'm still wondering how an immutable self can change through time, but I guess that is another one of those things. Every one of us is an immutable self changing through time, eh?

   
 Thanks for posting this. I honor the light within you.


may all beings be less wrong,
terry
   



from MN1, "the root of all things":



thus have I heard...


The Tathāgata—I

“Bhikkhus, the Tathāgata, too, accomplished and fully enlightened, directly knows earth as earth. Having directly known earth as earth, he does not conceive himself as earth, he does not conceive himself in earth, he does not conceive himself apart from earth, he does not conceive earth to be ‘mine,’ he does not delight in earth. Why is that? Because the Tathāgata has fully understood it to the end, I say.

“He too directly knows water as water…Nibbāna as Nibbāna…Why is that? Because the Tathāgata has fully understood it to the end, I say.


The Tathāgata—II

“Bhikkhus, the Tathāgata, too, accomplished and fully enlightened, directly knows earth as earth. Having directly known earth as earth, he does not conceive himself as earth, he does not conceive himself in earth, he does not conceive himself apart from earth, he does not conceive earth to be ‘mine,’ he does not delight in earth. Why is that? Because he has understood that delight is the root of suffering, and that with being as condition there is birth, and that for whatever has come to be there is ageing and death. Therefore, bhikkhus, through the complete destruction, fading away, cessation, giving up, and relinquishing of cravings, the Tathāgata has awakened to supreme full enlightenment, I say.

“He too directly knows water as water…Nibbāna as Nibbāna…Why is that? Because he has understood that delight is the root of suffering, and that with being as condition there is birth, and that for whatever has come to be there is ageing and death. Therefore, bhikkhus, through the complete destruction, fading away, cessation, giving up, and relinquishing of cravings, the Tathāgata has awakened to supreme full enlightenment, I say.”

That is what the Blessed One said, but those bhikkhus did not delight in the Blessed One’s words.

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/23/20 1:00 PM as a reply to Evangeline Rose Ingram.
Evangeline Rose Ingram:
Apologies for my imprecision with the language, Terry; I'm not actually Buddhist. Clearly it's impossible to actually percieve an immaterial self, but many natural arisings, particularly those of Earth and Hollow, are easily misinterpreted as "belonging" to "us." These procedures go through layer by layer, killing individual perceptions we thought were "self" and thus forcing "us" to less and less tenable refuges. I don't claim to have shed self-view or anything, but "me" sure as hell isn't my inner narration, my proprioception, my perception of the passage of time, etc, etc. I believe myself to therefore be less wrong than I was, though the habit of "I" is a damn stubborn one!


from tom cheetham, "green man, earth angel":


The function of poiesis, whether musical, poetic, religious, or scientific, is the creation or revelation of spaces: qualitative, complex and complexified, personified spaces. But we cannot do this on our own. In our current needy condition, we are required to descend, and to welcome the Descent of the Others to allow them to complexify, multiply, and diversify these concrete, feeling- laden worlds. We are at great risk of succumbing to the Single Vision that Blake so feared—at the hands of Scientism, Fundamentalism, Capitalism, all the "- isms." And our response, our duty, is to right the Balance. This requires the democratization, the diversification, and the embodiment of poiesis. So, all those politically correct "movements" for the various diversities have a cosmological meaning, a metaphysical grounding: biodiversity, cultural diversity, racial, ethnic, economic, linguistic, sexual, artistic diversities—all serve to breathe life into a world that threatens to choke on Unification.

All our imaginings are necessary. But none of them should be grasped too tightly, none of them should be taken too literally. We need to keep in mind the startling words of the wandering Japanese poet Nanao Sakaki: "No need to survive!" No need to hold anything too tightly! There are multiple forms of life, a myriad of forms of imagining, all necessary, and each with its own rules and structures, many perhaps more exacting and stringent than those we are accustomed to in physical science.

We must descend fully into the real, messy world, and not stop short of the real individuals who make it up. We get so constricted! So many are afraid to think about the world because only Scientists can do that. So many are afraid of their innate creativity because that is the realm of Artists. But anyone can experience the thrill that accompanies the new ways of seeing that lie at the heart of scientific discovery, anyone can write, or paint, or make music. And yet we mostly don't. Because, "I'm too busy . . . I'm not smart enough, I'm not good enough, I can't really dance, or sing, or write poetry or make pots ... I'd be too embarrassed." We are haunted by the Canon, by the experts, by the professionals. We are afraid of our selves, afraid that we won't measure up. When great thought, art, and literature become an impediment to human life and action rather than an inspiration, then something is seriously wrong. The democratization of imagination is essential for the full descent into the world of all the virtual beings crying out in their sadness to be revealed.

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/23/20 1:59 PM as a reply to terry.
terry:
aloha eri,

   You lost me at "perceived immaterial self." What do you suppose such a thing might be? How does one perceive an immaterial thing? This is the essence of non-self in buddhism, that it cannot be found in anything, anywhere.

   If one does not grant your premise, that of self perception, the rest does not follow. If such a self did exist, it could only be inferred, not perceived. One may of course infer all sorts of things that could never exist, proceeding from conception to generation to world creation.

terry
We're reading the original post very differently. You're reading it as asserting a self. I'm reading it as clarifying the contradictions in the intuitive perception of the self most people have in order to make it clear that on closer inspection it doesn't exist as perceived, through a process that leads to something very similar to the insight knowledges of the progress of insight. It's sort of an alternate description of the vipassana process. She isn't asserting that the sense of self exists, but rather stating a starting point for the meditation, through which the sense of self is deconstructed. As far as I can tell, the sense of self is being stated as immutable because the meditation demonstrates that it isn't. Please correct me if I've misunderstood what either of you have written.

The progression is familiar, but I don't understand the technique.

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/23/20 2:48 PM as a reply to Evangeline Rose Ingram.
Evangeline Rose Ingram:

You need to read the text as symbolic of the actions, but it works, it's there, and it's reproducible: I've pushed two others at least partially through this sequence. I'll compile a few of the more arcane procedures in clear english once I have charged my phone!

Thank you very much for posting about this and the detailed descriptions. I've always thought that writers for White Wolf were partly using their games to transmit usable metaphysical and meditative ideas and techniques. I bought a kindle copy of the book last night to take a look at the setting section you mentioned (it's satisfyingly long and will take a while to read) and because I'm a longtime fan of her work (from her contributions to Exalted and her blog Hitherby Dragons). I'm genuinely looking forward to reading the whole book and maybe running a game based on it. It's been a few years since I've read any of her writings and I'm enjoying reading her unique writing style and perspective again.

I've reread what you've posted and don't understand if you're describing the technique or just the outcomes of the technique. Could you clarify the basic technique? What exactly do you do in one session of meditation? If you've already written a description of how to go about it for your friends that differs from your original post, would you mind posting it? Thanks again!

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/23/20 2:25 PM as a reply to Jigme Sengye.
Jigme Sengye:
terry:
aloha eri,

   You lost me at "perceived immaterial self." What do you suppose such a thing might be? How does one perceive an immaterial thing? This is the essence of non-self in buddhism, that it cannot be found in anything, anywhere.

   If one does not grant your premise, that of self perception, the rest does not follow. If such a self did exist, it could only be inferred, not perceived. One may of course infer all sorts of things that could never exist, proceeding from conception to generation to world creation.

terry
We're reading the original post very differently. You're reading it as asserting a self. I'm reading it as clarifying the contradictions in the intuitive perception of the self most people have in order to make it clear that on closer inspection it doesn't exist as perceived, through a process that leads to something very similar to the insight knowledges of the progress of insight. It's sort of an alternate description of the vipassana process. She isn't asserting that the sense of self exists, but rather stating a starting point for the meditation, through which the sense of self is deconstructed. As far as I can tell, the sense of self is being stated as immutable because the meditation demonstrates that it isn't. Please correct me if I've misunderstood what either of you have written.

The progression is familiar, but I don't understand the technique.

   I frankly couldn't follow it. No assertions penetrated the contradictions. Now if we were talking about rocket propelled grenades...

   I'm happy that it makes sense to you.

t

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/28/20 8:53 PM as a reply to Jigme Sengye.
Jigme Sengye:
Evangeline Rose Ingram:

You need to read the text as symbolic of the actions, but it works, it's there, and it's reproducible: I've pushed two others at least partially through this sequence. I'll compile a few of the more arcane procedures in clear english once I have charged my phone!

Thank you very much for posting about this and the detailed descriptions. I've always thought that writers for White Wolf were partly using their games to transmit usable metaphysical and meditative ideas and techniques. I bought a kindle copy of the book last night to take a look at the setting section you mentioned (it's satisfyingly long and will take a while to read) and because I'm a longtime fan of her work (from her contributions to Exalted and her blog Hitherby Dragons). I'm genuinely looking forward to reading the whole book and maybe running a game based on it. It's been a few years since I've read any of her writings and I'm enjoying reading her unique writing style and perspective again.

I've reread what you've posted and don't understand if you're describing the technique or just the outcomes of the technique. Could you clarify the basic technique? What exactly do you do in one session of meditation? If you've already written a description of how to go about it for your friends that differs from your original post, would you mind posting it? Thanks again!
Basically, the early stages - featuring the more abstract ideas like "principle" and "role" - consist of directly forcing the student to "see" and internalize the mistaken belief. Students with naturally strong or trained concentration seem to get more "depth" of the resulting altered states, but prodding can make them clear even in students with weaker concentration.

Note that this is a harsh process! The student will actively resist seeing in the first few rounds - you're essentially directly attacking their belief system, so this requires strong trust and willingness to learn.

Once the belief is seen to be false, Fear arises: this can be broken by attacking mistaken concepts around social role. When that happens, Misery comes around: this can be broken by attacking mistaken principles, obligations and duties. 

At this point, the student has equanimity to a specific desire. The teacher should push them to stop sitting on the fence. They must either:

Indulgethepridefulimpulsetodespair.

AKA, "Commit to actually do it", or:

Damage theirhopefulwishingheart.

AKA, "Give up."

Once the decision is made, the Far And Sunless Land ritual is used to symbolically "kill" any lingering attachments.

After the early portion is done, rendering role, principle and passion object-not-subject, the rest can be proceeded through via direct, momentary concentration, throwing of strong and concentrated wrath at heavier mental blocks, visualization exercises, and use of the Far And Sunless Land ritual to shift altered states that concentratiom alone fails to.

The best comparison I can make is wrathful tantra, from my admittedly very limited background.

Here is a visualization procedure from fairly early on. If you can percieve lost time in your memory, this should work for you:

1: Imagine the visual world as projected onto a donut around you.
2: Now visualize that as a hollow sphere instead.
3: Now notice that where you direct your attention, there's a kind of "tendril" back to your eye.
4: "Cut" that tendril by effort of will.
5: "Flatten" the visual world into a form like a spatula.
6: Give it a little more depth, like a pancake. 
7: Now imagine it as a column centered on your eye.
8: Now imagine it as a cone radiating from your eye. 
9: Hold your attention on a light source: the blue center, yellow ring, red edging should become apparent if you do not blink excessively.

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/28/20 9:21 PM as a reply to Evangeline Rose Ingram.
Small update on personal progress: 
I had a series of very strong cessations of full "sense-spheres":

Earth Cessation: "Original seeing" of everything, no sense of fixed form or "oh yeah that's a bookcase, that's a book", etc. Background assumption that "the world exists" ceases. I... cannot actually describe it better than that in words. 

Water Cessation: No sense of movement or flow, failure of ability to distinguish between truths and lies or true and false statements, no ability to "go along" with social niceties. Lack of the desire to breathe: I timed myself and was able to go 20 seconds on a single breath before it became at all uncomfortable. I decided not  to experiment with that further.

Fire Cessation:  Astonishingly  creepy near-death experience. Cessation of all emotions, perception of the breath, perception of  heartbeat, tactile numbness, sensation of cold wind, general dissolution of "I" save for the will, inability to identify the body as "me". I spent a good 15 minutes just making sure I was still alive afterwards. There may have been an outright Fruition here: it's really quite difficult to tell, as "I" barely existed and the whole period is hazy in my memory now, probably due to repression. Creepy as hell.

Further interesting things happened, but due to impacts of them on my material life I'm not likely to be prioritizing updates here. I got something that looked a lot like a Dharma - something I'd be content  with  living for - but didn't include enough of my other priorities to be something I actually wanted to pursue at that instant, though I came dangerously close. Planning is now underway regarding how to balance these insights with material reality.

RE: Awakening in everyday life?
Answer
3/28/20 9:31 PM as a reply to Jigme Sengye.
The extremely weird part is that no actual active meditation occurs most of the time. >75% of altered states are peristent and don't require a continuous output of will: some of the ones with unusual visual characteristics require meditation in order to fully percive those unusual characteristics, but as of yet I haven't encountered any states that dissipated completely when no attention was paid. There are some oddities like "the ability to zoom your eyesight in a particular state", which required intense concentration, a lot of channeled wrath, and was both painful for the backs of my eyes and left me feeling physically wiped afterwards, but overall such states are very, very rare, and generally exist only in cases of similar unusual abilities.