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Gregor's log Gregor 4/23/20 1:38 AM
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Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 1:38 AM
Intro

With the last shift happening on the 04th of April this years I thought I would be done. The feeling of completion lasted for a beautiful week in which I experienced altered and even more liberating states of consciousness. My teacher told me that this was technical 4th but I am still not convinced, so I might be stuck at late 3rd path, the feeling of this vast and beautiful nothingness has faded and some identification has creeped back in. 
Befor the beginning of February this year my practice consisted of 1-2 hours Shamatha (TMI) and 45 mins Vipassana + all day long off-cushion noting. I had an intense Kriya experience which caused some depersonalization/derealization and lot's of anxiety + sleepless nights. 
My mind is currently still averisve to practice, 5 minutes of formal practice and shit is hitting the fan so to speak. I hope that I can either deepen the state I am in, or gain further insight knowledge by contemplating and surrendering to what reality has to offer without formal practice.

I hope some of you might benefit from this thread, lot's of Metta to y'all!emoticon 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 1:31 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Wednesday, April 22nd 

Yesterday morning I got quite scared to experience a full Kundalini awakening. There's a lot of energetic movement at the bottom of my spine, since I am staying at my mom's place I didn't want to come of as if something wouldn't be okay, so I decided to drive into a park. It was a 20 minute drive but on the way I already merged with my car. My heart was pounding heavily, I never experienced something like this before, A&P's tend to make my heart race but not pounding with such intensity. I immediately stopped the car, my hip was moving and shaking and I could feel a mix out of Piti and electricity bubbling up my spine. I usually tend to get scared when this stuff happens but there was this strong intuitive feeling of security. It started to get strange when I closed my eyes. This green bright light was flashing at me and at the center I could see the shape of a woman. I waited in the parking lot until I felt comfortable driving again, after 5 minutes of driving it felt like I could potentially loose consciousness, I immediately stopped my car again. My intuition or whatever that was told me to leave my car. The problem is that the area I was in was super crowded and I thought a Kundalini awakening in midst of all those people would kill me psychologically. I didn't quite reached my destination but I was in nature. I decided to sit down under a tree, these giant compassionate beings really have the power to make me feel safe instantly. I sat there waiting for my awakening but fortunately nothing happend. I drove home without any interruptions and experienced movement around the spine in the evening once again. Nothing happened. After getting some groceries and on my way back home I saw a woman approaching the street, I noticed her face before my mind was able to project something onto her, I could clearly see the perceptual layer of self that my mind was fabricating. I noticed the underling tone and I managed to observe reality for the entire day in that state. 
In the evening my consciousness switched again and I experienced a deep feeling of oneness with my room, not the usual visual/bodily feeling of non duality, this one was more of an energetic level, it felt like I could perceive different levels of energy in the room. 

Waking up this morning my mind was free from conceptual layers, towards the evening I experienced a lot of identification and dissatisfaction. 
I inquired a lot on the conceptual mind and I looked deeply at the 'seeker.' 
I came up with a list of why 'I' wanted to get 4th path, at first it was very abstract but after a while of inquiring I could pin point the answer more precisely in hopes of seeing what has to be done. 
Here the list with the closest picks: 
-Independence 
-not trying to be someone else anymore 
-aversion against duality (even as I child I didn't knew what to do with life, I didn't really suffer but I never understood 'why' and never saw myself growing up following the standard process of school/university/working/dying) 
-never had a long lasting relationship, looking for compensation (yes, cheese af) 

Having a background in sports my mindset always has been 'never enough,' so I tend to get aversive towards situations I don't have control over very fast (definitely my number one hindrance on the path, striving haha, no seriously, striving is the worst thing ever).
Since I am currently looking deep into the Vedana and Tanha of my experience I noticed that my mind reacts aversive towards "having aversion and desire," I think it could potentially lead into a negative downward spiral, leading to some subconscious hindrance, so I try to change my reaction on this as well.  

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/22/20 8:44 PM as a reply to Gregor.
Hi Gregor,

I enjoyed reading about your experiences and progress.

This is just my personal opinion and I'm not an authority on anything, but you might need to let go of the idea that liberation (4th or however you define it) is going to change something about you. I'm definitely not saying that you shouldn't make changes to things which are unhealthy for you, just that this is unrelated to liberation which involves giving up conceptions of who you are or what you want out of life. If you want to get something out of liberation then that's probably more a reflection of what you think liberation would be like for you rather than of liberation itself (which leaves you with nothing).

Best wishes,
agnostic

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 1:37 AM as a reply to agnostic.
Hey Agnostic,

you are totally right with what you said. I know that it won't change anything for me and it's more about the disidentification, not seeing things as 'mine' anymore. I had the idea of doing so from Shargrol, I read it in another thread and thought that the rest of the self might be clinging to a core belief which is coloring my pereption. 

Thanks a lot! 

-Metta 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 4:03 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Hey Agnostic,

you are totally right with what you said. I know that it won't change anything for me and it's more about the disidentification, not seeing things as 'mine' anymore. I had the idea of doing so from Shargrol, I read it in another thread and thought that the rest of the self might be clinging to a core belief which is coloring my pereption. 

Thanks a lot! 

-Metta 

Hi gregor,

Thanks for sharing this, it's fascinating. I see that you have tapped into the shargrol frequency on your DhO FM radio dial before, and that guy is pure gold on what you're going through. I'd say check this out, in lesire and in depth---

https://shargrolpostscompilation.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html#transitiontoeq

metta, man,
tim 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 5:10 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Hey Agnostic,

you are totally right with what you said. I know that it won't change anything for me and it's more about the disidentification, not seeing things as 'mine' anymore. I had the idea of doing so from Shargrol, I read it in another thread and thought that the rest of the self might be clinging to a core belief which is coloring my pereption. 

Thanks a lot! 

-Metta 

You might want to examine this idea of "the rest of the self", which can put you in a progressive mindset where the self seems to be a real solid entity which you are slowly chipping away at (or whose "core beliefs" you are gradually abandoning). I found it helpful to adopt the opposite viewpoint: the self is really completely empty (there is no "core self") and there are just various activities of "selfing" going on at certain times, such as when you have the thought "I would like to be more independent" (which doesn't actually imply that I exists!). It's a bit of a mind-bender, but it's a digital shift in perspective which can suddenly make a lot of these problems evaporate or at least be seen to be essentially meaningless.

I don't mean to trivialize your problems, some of which may actually have real-world solutions (e.g. relationships). But after a couple of decades going through life with the same assumed problem under different circumstances, you start to wonder whether it will ever have a solution. If there is no core self then there is already complete inner independence/freedom whatever the external circumstances, because the idea that "I need to be more free" doesn't make sense. Same with "I need to stop trying to be someone else". When these kinds of problems disappear then things like relationships can suddenly seem to improve out of nowhere.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 5:52 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Hey Tim, 

thank you for sharing the link, I already went through it, Shargrol's advice is always the best!

All the best,

Gregor 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 5:55 AM as a reply to agnostic.
agnostic::

You might want to examine this idea of "the rest of the self", which can put you in a progressive mindset where the self seems to be a real solid entity which you are slowly chipping away at (or whose "core beliefs" you are gradually abandoning). I found it helpful to adopt the opposite viewpoint: the self is really completely empty (there is no "core self") and there are just various activities of "selfing" going on at certain times, such as when you have the thought "I would like to be more independent" (which doesn't actually imply that I exists!). It's a bit of a mind-bender, but it's a digital shift in perspective which can suddenly make a lot of these problems evaporate or at least be seen to be essentially meaningless.

I don't mean to trivialize your problems, some of which may actually have real-world solutions (e.g. relationships). But after a couple of decades going through life with the same assumed problem under different circumstances, you start to wonder whether it will ever have a solution. If there is no core self then there is already complete inner independence/freedom whatever the external circumstances, because the idea that "I need to be more free" doesn't make sense. Same with "I need to stop trying to be someone else". When these kinds of problems disappear then things like relationships can suddenly seem to improve out of nowhere.

Thank you for the quick response, this morning I figured something out, I'll post it here. Thanksemoticon 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 6:01 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
For some reason, this thread reminds me of the word metamorphosis and I'm not sure why. Kind of Kafka-esque, eh?

emoticon

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 6:09 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
For some reason, this thread reminds me of the word metamorphosis and I'm not sure why. Kind of Kafka-esque, eh?

emoticon

I do think there's a rich element of absurd yet absolutely dead serious transformation of form at work here. And if you're implying that i am a cockroach, then have the decency to say it frankly, so i can flag your ass and get the moderator to cool your shit out.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 6:23 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Thursday, April 23rd

I woke up this morning kind of annoyed by how things are, I was quite dissatisfied. Since I am not able to sit in formal meditation, my morning routine consists out of reading. Reading seems to eliminate all hindrances for me, so I quickly entered a formless realm after skipping through Burbea's 'Seeing that free's' 
I went in my bedroom and since there's not much to do for me atm, I just starred at a wall, all of a sudden I got the 'cosmic joke' again. I could see the narrator and it's dissatisfying nature again, the sense of agency is nothing but a raw sense percept that gives the illusion that arbitrary mind movements are intrinsically real in some way. There is no reality behind these mind movements though. There is no special person directing behavior. This is the illusion that sense perceptions of agency provide. 
Satisfied with my new realization I left my apartment to enjoy some sunlight, on my way to the park I even listened to music while enjoying the nothingness. I then figured out on a conceptual level why I get identified over and over again although I am not able to find my 'self' in the experience anymore. After the last shift identification with the agent and the narrator dropped off, though my sense doors seem to not be fully open yet, which causes duality and identification with the body. 
While sitting in the park I decided to close my eyes and rest in the open field of awareness, after 1 minute in I felt that my spine was changing its posture automatically, accompanied by heavy movements at the base of it, I immediately stopped and opened my eyes again. On my way back to the car my consciousness reached and altered state again and I experienced the beauty of non duality, it faded after a few minutes tho. 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 6:23 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
For some reason, this thread reminds me of the word metamorphosis and I'm not sure why. Kind of Kafka-esque, eh?

emoticon

Surely you're not saying I'm trying to be someone else ;-)

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 6:29 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Thursday, April 23rd

I woke up this morning kind of annoyed by how things are, I was quite dissatisfied. Since I am not able to sit in formal meditation


Gregor, could you remind me why you can't sit in formal meditation?

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 6:40 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Things are getting out of hand fairly quickly haha, my mind starts racing and contracting etc. 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 6:55 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Thursday, April 23rd

I woke up this morning kind of annoyed by how things are, I was quite dissatisfied. Since I am not able to sit in formal meditation, my morning routine consists out of reading. Reading seems to eliminate all hindrances for me, so I quickly entered a formless realm after skipping through Burbea's 'Seeing that free's' 
I went in my bedroom and since there's not much to do for me atm, I just starred at a wall, all of a sudden I got the 'cosmic joke' again. I could see the narrator and it's dissatisfying nature again, the sense of agency is nothing but a raw sense percept that gives the illusion that arbitrary mind movements are intrinsically real in some way. There is no reality behind these mind movements though. There is no special person directing behavior. This is the illusion that sense perceptions of agency provide. 
Satisfied with my new realization I left my apartment to enjoy some sunlight, on my way to the park I even listened to music while enjoying the nothingness. I then figured out on a conceptual level why I get identified over and over again although I am not able to find my 'self' in the experience anymore. After the last shift identification with the agent and the narrator dropped off, though my sense doors seem to not be fully open yet, which causes duality and identification with the body. 
While sitting in the park I decided to close my eyes and rest in the open field of awareness, after 1 minute in I felt that my spine was changing its posture automatically, accompanied by heavy movements at the base of it, I immediately stopped and opened my eyes again. On my way back to the car my consciousness reached and altered state again and I experienced the beauty of non duality, it faded after a few minutes tho. 

You can’t experience nonduality because it’s not an experience. Experience requires a subject and hence is dualistic. All experiences and states are temporary, hence unsatisfactory. Formless realms are all very nice but unfortunately there are no toilets or restaurants there. The experience of pure subjectivity (“undifferentiated” or “objectless” awareness) is actually the root of dualism, because you need a subject in order to have objects. This is the delusion that jhana is nibbana. Nibbana/nonduality (the absence of the subject) is actually available all the time (even in the toilet), so long as you don’t start looking for it. Duality and identification continue to be felt as energetic contractions within the body, but that’s fine once you get the joke.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 7:00 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Things are getting out of hand fairly quickly haha, my mind starts racing and contracting etc. 

I would personally, from my own experiences, as a bipolar with multiple psychotic episodes and hospitalizations, of trying to work through a raging mania with meditation still at work, to find how long you are actually realistically able to sit. Just that. I have started from as low as 3 seconds. Get your baseline set by that: if you can sit still for 15 seconds, that is your sitting time. If you hit that time during a formal sit, add one second to the next sit. If you don't make the whole 15 seconds, take one second off the next sit. I think it is really important for you right now to try this.

for examples of my own craziness and struggles with this issue of sitting during wild energy, cf, for instance, anywhere at random in my practice logs at  https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/20235892

hang tough, my friend!
emoticon

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 7:02 AM as a reply to agnostic.
You can’t experience nonduality because it’s not an experience. Experience requires a subject and hence is dualistic. All experiences and states are temporary, hence unsatisfactory. 

Side note to Agnostic - any time you're conscious you are experiencing a duality. Consciousness (sensate experience) of any sort, whatever we call it, requires a subject and an object. The object can be the experience of non-duality - conceptualized. You can observe this happening in real-time.

emoticon

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 7:15 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
You can’t experience nonduality because it’s not an experience. Experience requires a subject and hence is dualistic. All experiences and states are temporary, hence unsatisfactory. 

Side note to Agnostic - any time you're conscious you are experiencing a duality. Consciousness (sensate experience) of any sort, whatever we call it, requires a subject and an object. The object can be the experience of non-duality - conceptualized. You can observe this happening in real-time.

emoticon

Yes, but consciousness is ultimately an illusion no?

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 7:14 AM as a reply to agnostic.
Of course it is.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 7:22 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Yes, object is there, ... in seeing just the seen, referring back to no one ... and then mind skips into self-validation claiming that experience emoticon ouch! 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 7:30 AM as a reply to agnostic.
RE: Gregor's log

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 7:30 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
RE: Gregor's log

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 7:29 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:


Side note to Agnostic - any time you're conscious you are experiencing a duality. Consciousness (sensate experience) of any sort, whatever we call it, requires a subject and an object. The object can be the experience of non-duality - conceptualized. You can observe this happening in real-time.

emoticon


Thank you, Chris! 
-
It seems like not all my responses are getting posted here...

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 7:32 AM as a reply to agnostic.
agnostic:


 Duality and identification continue to be felt as energetic contractions within the body, but that’s fine once you get the joke.




I just had a great laugh, thx for this haha! I noticed the more letting go happens by going for long walks for example, the more my mind moves towards this perfect state without any attachment.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 8:24 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
agnostic:


 Duality and identification continue to be felt as energetic contractions within the body, but that’s fine once you get the joke.




I just had a great laugh, thx for this haha! I noticed the more letting go happens by going for long walks for example, the more my mind moves towards this perfect state without any attachment.

Perfect! Just remember this is the way reality actually is (even when it seems not to be!) and the contracted states are just stubborn illusions appearing to arise within this reality.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 2:28 PM as a reply to agnostic.
Thank you, will doemoticon 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 2:47 PM as a reply to Gregor.
Thursday, April 23rd 

After accepting everything the way it is, I conclude that everything is the way it was before I started my journey. It's beautiful, the cool thing is that I don't refer to phenomena as mine anymore. Altough I know that there are deeper developmental states following in which more identiy will be removed, the seeking seems to have found an end. It seemed like my mind was projecting too much of its phantasies on what this is gonna be about. The cycles also stopped in February, I wonder what's up with that?
I started experimenting with sensual pleasures like listening to music, there are no highs and lows anymore, it's just plain sound without any meaning, makes it pretty mundane, same thing with food. Haven't tried sex yet lol. 
I also value my time alone more, I always did but I just recognize now that there's always a kind of 'selfing' involved when it comes to social interactions. Same thing with excitement, it's a subtle form of suffering, so I rather avoid that too. 
Oh and lastly, I feel more like a mammal instead of being a social creature, pretty cool tho. 
I will continue posting updates regularly, writing is fun! 

Thanks to everyone reading this and leaving a message!(:

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 3:07 PM as a reply to Gregor.
I started experimenting with sensual pleasures like listening to music, there are no highs and lows anymore, it's just plain sound without any meaning, makes it pretty mundane, same thing with food.

This has not been my experience.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 3:20 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Well, it's not that I cannot enjoy those things but they don't really seem to trigger me. When I listened to a song which I liked there was always a certain projection of what I associated with that song, referring to 'Gregor,' that's just not the case anymore, same with food, it tastes good but I can reject it after a few bites. 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/23/20 5:26 PM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Thursday, April 23rd 

After accepting everything the way it is, I conclude that everything is the way it was before I started my journey. It's beautiful, the cool thing is that I don't refer to phenomena as mine anymore. Altough I know that there are deeper developmental states following in which more identiy will be removed, the seeking seems to have found an end. It seemed like my mind was projecting too much of its phantasies on what this is gonna be about. The cycles also stopped in February, I wonder what's up with that?
I started experimenting with sensual pleasures like listening to music, there are no highs and lows anymore, it's just plain sound without any meaning, makes it pretty mundane, same thing with food. Haven't tried sex yet lol. 
I also value my time alone more, I always did but I just recognize now that there's always a kind of 'selfing' involved when it comes to social interactions. Same thing with excitement, it's a subtle form of suffering, so I rather avoid that too. 
Oh and lastly, I feel more like a mammal instead of being a social creature, pretty cool tho. 
I will continue posting updates regularly, writing is fun! 

Thanks to everyone reading this and leaving a message!(:

Are you doing any sitting practice at all right now?

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/24/20 1:19 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim Farrington:


Are you doing any sitting practice at all right now?

I've been doing a lot of somatic stuff lately, the 10 points practice by Reggie Ray, I had good success with it. I stopped sitting by the beginning of this month. I practiced around 45 mins/ day in March (formal meditation). Other than that I try to sit for 2-5 minutes, in the very beginning even 1 minute was too much, now it's around 3 minutes, I still don't trust my Kundalini though...
I experienced a lot of physical, energetical pain since the last shift. Mostly in the crown area, that was quite unpleasant for a few weeks. 
In March I was pretty dysfunctional, I experienced a lot of Non Self but it wasn't comfortable at all. Towards the evening my brain chemistry changed, then I got into this state of non existence, or just 'being' without any identification anymore, I suddenly becam the room and time stopped, so I was just laying there in a timeless, non existent state. It was peaceful but then the self came back online and I got super scared. I couldn't differentiate between waking consciousness and dream-consciousness anymore. I thought I lost my mind completely, this lasted for roughly 5 weeks. In the beginning I panicked a lot, so I ended up with encountering Depersonalization/DR and dissociation. I never had any psychological problems though. I spoke to a Zen Master and several other teachers, they told me that I don't have to worry, then the fear and the DP/DR eventually subsided.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/24/20 1:57 AM as a reply to Gregor.
 I stopped sitting by the beginning of this month. I practiced around 45 mins/ day in March (formal meditation). Other than that I try to sit for 2-5 minutes, in the very beginning even 1 minute was too much, now it's around 3 minutes.
Gregory, for me, the sitting practice is one of the keys to getting through a very high energy period in your practice. It will be a place of stability and reference, even in the fathomless abyss and the whirlwind. Take refuge in the Buddha, take refuge in the Dharma, take refuge in the sangha, and sit your fucking ass down.
 
You say you are “trying to sit for 2-5 minutes, and right now it is around 3 minutes.” That is a step up from the last i heard from you, which was you had let go of sitting at all because of the pain and agitation. so here is what i would recommend:
take a vow, commit yourself, in this, your sacred practice log, to try, starting today, to sit for three minutes. Once. That is all. I use the conventional time notation 3:00=minutes:seconds. If you meet your day’s set meditation time, add one second to your next sit: 3:01. If you can’t hold the whole sit time, for whatever reason, no big deal. Take a second off and try the next sit from 2:59.
 
This sounds rinky-dink, too tiny to be a factor in the present hurricane of no-self, and possibly absurd. Nevertheless, i would heartily encourage you to add it to the mix of your practice.
 
I am presently in the midst of a high-energy mania that would have had me hospitalized long ago, without this discipline, and reliance on the Buddha, the Dharma, and the sangha. I cannot urge you strongly enough to try this.
 
With everything else, play it as you’re playing it. There was much abler and more competent and experienced people here at DhO to give you wisdom, a lot of people have been through things very like what you are going through, some of them many, many times. The ones writing on this site are all still alive, which to me is very impressive, because this Kundalini shit can really kill you.
 
I still don't trust my Kundalini though...
 
in a way, this is at the heart of what you are going through. Kundalini only wakes up and kicks your ass when the time is right. It seems crazy and harsh, but it is actually one of the highest forms of love and guidance Mama Shakti can give you. You have been blessed to be fucked up by the Big Mama of Universal Energy. You will only trust her more, when you have survived this. But to survive it, first, i recommend 2:00 of Ass-on-mat, the Ass-on asana. Seriously, brother.
with metta, tim

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/24/20 3:59 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Hahah, thank you *giggle! 
Discipline was never a problem  but I am not sure if things should settle a bit first before my mind leads itself through the next big thing. I consider your advice tho.  

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/24/20 1:32 PM as a reply to Gregor.
Friday, April 24th 

Feeling terrible today, no energy, a lot of pain in the head and gut + nausea. 
I met a girl but it seems like her interest in me isn't too high, time to say goodby to another attachment. Germany is a terrile place for dating haha. 
Looking forward to attend another retreat this year, been thinking about Dhammacari, it seems to be a pretty nice place, I hope my teacher gives me an okay soon. 
Will get back here later! 

Oh btw, I studied health and nutrition for the past years, if there's any interest I'll write an article on how to maximize cognitive function and well being. 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/24/20 6:09 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor, do me a dharma-chum favor and sit your ass on a mat for 3:00 minutes.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/24/20 6:19 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim Farrington:
Gregor, do me a dharma-chum favor and sit your ass on a mat for 3:00 minutes.

Just did what you said, I really miss my Shamtha practice, it's so calming! 
-Metta 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/24/20 6:26 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Tim Farrington:
Gregor, do me a dharma-chum favor and sit your ass on a mat for 3:00 minutes.

Just did what you said, I really miss my Shamtha practice, it's so calming! 
-Metta 

well, do your fucking Shamatha, you ding-dong!!!! emoticonemoticon

next sit, whenever it may be, is 3:01. log them, this is your fucking practice log pardon my French. emoticon

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/24/20 6:50 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Just noticed that a lot of fear is coming up, even after 2 mins my mind gets really contracted and there's a lot happening at the base of my spine... 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/24/20 6:51 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Just noticed that a lot of fear is coming up, even after 2 mins my mind gets really contracted and there's a lot happening at the base of my spine... 

so maybe we should let off on the gas here and start fresh at 2:00. what say you?

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/24/20 10:43 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Hi Gregor, it seems like you've been practicing pretty hard lately and gone through some quite extreme experiences (which you handled well without losing it). It might even be time to let things settle a bit. Also worth bearing in mind, anyone commenting on your practice (including me) is to some extent projecting their own practice (or lack thereof). You've got the best feel of yourself.
Cheers
agnostic

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/24/20 1:31 PM as a reply to agnostic.
agnostic:
Hi Gregor, it seems like you've been practicing pretty hard lately and gone through some quite extreme experiences (which you handled well without losing it). It might even be time to let things settle a bit. Also worth bearing in mind, anyone commenting on your practice (including me) is to some extent projecting their own practice (or lack thereof). You've got the best feel of yourself.
Cheers
agnostic


Hey Agnostic, 
that's some really good advice, the highs and lows are still quite destabilizing. I really appreciate that you reminded me to slow things down again. 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/24/20 4:35 PM as a reply to Gregor.
RE: Gregor's log

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/25/20 12:25 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
RE: Gregor's log


lol. that's deep. emoticon

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/26/20 9:17 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Thursday, April 23rd



Satisfied with my new realization I left my apartment to enjoy some sunlight, on my way to the park I even listened to music while enjoying the nothingness. I then figured out on a conceptual level why I get identified over and over again although I am not able to find my 'self' in the experience anymore. After the last shift identification with the agent and the narrator dropped off, though my sense doors seem to not be fully open yet, which causes duality and identification with the body. 
While sitting in the park I decided to close my eyes and rest in the open field of awareness, after 1 minute in I felt that my spine was changing its posture automatically, accompanied by heavy movements at the base of it, I immediately stopped and opened my eyes again. On my way back to the car my consciousness reached and altered state again and I experienced the beauty of non duality, it faded after a few minutes tho. 
I missed this the first time through, like the dull ass i am, but for God's sake, Gregor, don't drive your car in this condition! Really, man. You would be a danger to yourself and others, driving while you're subject to going this far out.

Please reply.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/26/20 9:20 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Yes - it's bad when no one is driving.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/26/20 10:03 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Sunday, April 26th 

Hadn't got time to write something yesterday. Mind is feeling very depressed today, been thinking about future plans lately and I am extremely aversive to attend university again. Seems so useless to study 6 years for a peace of paper which pretends that one is "qualified" in a certain area. It's alergy season as well here in Germany, yesterday night I had trouble breathing, so I doubled my medication dosage which is one of the reasons why I feel like shit today. 
I am about to meet my teacher in a few minutes to discuss how to go on from here, there's still a ton of work to do and I can hopefully proceeded with practice soon.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/26/20 10:10 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Sunday, April 26th 

Hadn't got time to write something yesterday. Mind is feeling very depressed today, been thinking about future plans lately and I am extremely aversive to attend university again. Seems so useless to study 6 years for a peace of paper which pretends that one is "qualified" in a certain area. It's alergy season as well here in Germany, yesterday night I had trouble breathing, so I doubled my medication dosage which is one of the reasons why I feel like shit today. 
I am about to meet my teacher in a few minutes to discuss how to go on from here, there's still a ton of work to do and I can hopefully proceeded with practice soon.

Gregor, I'm so sorry, i've really had my head up my ass with you, I'm afraid. That i missed that you were DRIVING in this condition of yours is inexcusable on my part. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

I think maybe agnostic is on to something with you simply going aboput your business, at least until you feel truly not subject to disorienting lapses of self, and hallucinations.

Chris? agnostic? Anybody?

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/26/20 10:45 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim Farrington:


Gregor, I'm so sorry, i've really had my head up my ass with you, I'm afraid. That i missed that you were DRIVING in this condition of yours is inexcusable on my part. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

I think maybe agnostic is on to something with you simply going aboput your business, at least until you feel truly not subject to disorienting lapses of self, and hallucinations.

Chris? agnostic? Anybody?

Sorry Tim, I don't quite understand, English isn't my first language. Could you elaborate what you mean by this? 

-All the best!

*Edit: If you refer to the part of medication, it's not a psychoactive substance, it only helps reducing Histamine levels in the body and I also don't need help in regards to future descisions but thank you(: I dropped out of medicine school in Januaray due to the destabilizing aspects of the path and I am not sure about what to do next, well I know the direction but I am not a 100% certain since I was sure that I'll go with medicine (I already made that decision 5 years ago). I think it will be Psychology and from there I plan to move towards Cognitive Science but on the other hand I'd also like to put more emphasis on creativity. I'm financially stable and got tons of time to think about it but the topic came up this morning. Anyways, I appreciate your help brother! 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/26/20 10:54 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Tim Farrington:


Gregor, I'm so sorry, i've really had my head up my ass with you, I'm afraid. That i missed that you were DRIVING in this condition of yours is inexcusable on my part. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

I think maybe agnostic is on to something with you simply going aboput your business, at least until you feel truly not subject to disorienting lapses of self, and hallucinations.

Chris? agnostic? Anybody?

Sorry Tim, I don't quite understand, English isn't my first language. Could you elaborate what you mean by this? 

-All the best!

Anyways, I appreciate your help brother! 



*Edit: If you refer to the part of medication, it's not a psychoactive substance, it only helps reducing Histamine levels in the body and I also don't need help in regards to future descisions but thank you(: I dropped out of medicine school in Januaray due to the destabilizing aspects of the path and I am not sure about what to do next, well I know the direction but I am not a 100% certain since I was sure that I'll go with medicine (I already made that decision 5 years ago). I think it will be Psychology and from there I plan to move towards Cognitive Science but on the other hand I'd also like to put more emphasis on creativity. I'm financially stable and got tons of time to think about it but the topic came up this morning.

No, the medication you're on is wonderful, a great, smart move. Tell your psychiatrist as much as you can about the side effects, and make he sure stays in the loop about the spiritual complications in your very special case.What I was referring to was that I pushed you to buckle down and put in three minutes of meditation a day. And missed you telling us plainly that it was not safe for you to be driving a car right now.Are the hallucinations continuing? When was your last hallucination?Are the disorienting lapses of self continuing? when was your last experience of that? as many details as you can stand to put down would be wonderful.Thank you. You are very tough, resourceful, brave man, Gregor. You'll get through this and be all the wiser for it. But survive first, survive first; do not be a danger to yourself, cry out for help before you let that happen. And do not be a danger to others--- be very honest with yourself about whether you are capable of doing things like driving safely without becoming one with the fucking cosmos or something and hitting someone with a baby carriage. Okay?


RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/27/20 5:33 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim Farrington:

No, the medication you're on is wonderful, a great, smart move. Tell your psychiatrist as much as you can about the side effects, and make he sure stays in the loop about the spiritual complications in your very special case.What I was referring to was that I pushed you to buckle down and put in three minutes of meditation a day. And missed you telling us plainly that it was not safe for you to be driving a car right now.Are the hallucinations continuing? When was your last hallucination?Are the disorienting lapses of self continuing? when was your last experience of that? as many details as you can stand to put down would be wonderful.Thank you. You are very tough, resourceful, brave man, Gregor. You'll get through this and be all the wiser for it. But survive first, survive first; do not be a danger to yourself, cry out for help before you let that happen. And do not be a danger to others--- be very honest with yourself about whether you are capable of doing things like driving safely without becoming one with the fucking cosmos or something and hitting someone with a baby carriage. Okay?



Well, no. I experienced the difficulties while driving only once, when I felt the intense Kundalini energy, otherwise I am totally fine, no hallucinations etc.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/27/20 5:43 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Monday, April 27th 

Having a lot "Ego-Backlash" - been craving food since yesterday for no obvious reason and the mind feels pretty disgusted in general. I had an argument on reddit and my mind really contracted around the situation. Aversion and desire are really keeping me in a dual state since yesterday, are those cravings normal? I feel super dissatisfied.
I meditated for 10 minutes with eyes open and 5 minutes with eyes closed after talking to my teacher yesterday, nothing happened, no fear arose, no dissociation, everything seems fine.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/27/20 5:48 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Tim Farrington:

No, the medication you're on is wonderful, a great, smart move. Tell your psychiatrist as much as you can about the side effects, and make he sure stays in the loop about the spiritual complications in your very special case.What I was referring to was that I pushed you to buckle down and put in three minutes of meditation a day. And missed you telling us plainly that it was not safe for you to be driving a car right now.Are the hallucinations continuing? When was your last hallucination?Are the disorienting lapses of self continuing? when was your last experience of that? as many details as you can stand to put down would be wonderful.Thank you. You are very tough, resourceful, brave man, Gregor. You'll get through this and be all the wiser for it. But survive first, survive first; do not be a danger to yourself, cry out for help before you let that happen. And do not be a danger to others--- be very honest with yourself about whether you are capable of doing things like driving safely without becoming one with the fucking cosmos or something and hitting someone with a baby carriage. Okay?



Well, no. I experienced the difficulties while driving only once, when I felt the intense Kundalini energy, otherwise I am totally fine, no hallucinations etc.

Fantastic. Stay very alert to that.

A very good friend of mine used to be very good at driving stoned. This was good, because at that time he and i were almost always stoned, and almost always on the road. I remember driving through a mountain pass one night in the middle of a blizzard, him at the wheel, me riding shotgun. I was just tripping on the whirl and dance of the flurries, and seeing them as both the energy-particle play at subatomic levels and as the graphic represention of the storm of souls swirling through incarnation. That kind of stuff. And my buddy was just somehow keeping it between the lines, even though the lines themselves were long since obliterated and we were getting to the point where the red sticks they plant along certain mountain roads, to guide the snowplows, were becoming the main navigational markers. I could see that was how he was doing it, i was registering the red sticks on our right like him, but my body responding to those sticks feedback in real time would have had us in a roadside drift within 100 yards, and they would have found our frozen bodies in the car after the next thaw. But on he drove, and at some point he reached over and turned up the music. Santana. He loved Santana. And he said, "Did you ever see Santana play live? During his guitar riff solos, he turns around and plays to the picture of his Guru that he puts on top of an amplifier." And I said, maybe five minutes later, "wow."

You are sort of learning to live stoned. And you're doing spectacularly well at it, by most signs. Anything i can do, inside of my own five-minute plus lag time on feedback, to help you keep it between the lines and out of the snowbanks, is all i want to do with you right now. That, and really enjoy the ride. You can pick the music.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/27/20 6:37 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Hi Gregor,

Ego-backlash is very normal at certain stages. No one likes being pushed out of a job and the ego is just the same! But don't worry, the job will still get done even without an ego! (You will never not have an ego, I just mean once you've got the "ego joke".) I remember getting into stupid arguments and behaving unreasonably at times, probably still do.

Daniel says something in his book to the effect of "if you're going to awaken, make sure you have a life worth waking up to". That doesn't mean you shouldn't seriously consider your options and what's right for you, just be aware that you might be more inclined than normal to make drastic life-changing decisions at this stage. At a certain point you have to go with something practical that makes sense in your circumstances and trust that things will work out. It helps to have a grounding activity which is unrelated to your practice, which is probably the last thing you want to hear when your practice is so important to you and you're having major insights and breakthroughs.

One thing you can do is take your occupation or activity or studies or whatever and make it part of your practice in a a kind of tantric way. You are sort of looking to "manifest" yourself in your activity. It sounds like the opposite of anatta/not-self insight, but it is related. If there's no fixed identity then you are free to be manifested in whatever way the universe deems appropriate and that can involve a kind of surrender which helps release your attachment to old patterns of fixed identity. It might sound a bit woo woo but there's a lot of quite practical stuff on tantra and manifesting, here's a link to Lama Yeshe's book. Obviously this should all be done in co-ordination with your teachers, career advisor, parents etc., but it's a different mindset that might be helpful for you. A year ago I was stuck in my business so I mentally "gave it up" (released the attachment) which actually made me more free to do it.

While I'm here doling out the responsible Dad advice (tantra?!!! WTF!!), I remember that time of studies/career choices and feeling that there was tons of time to think about it. I was also relatively financially stable, which seemed like a blessing at the time but was probably more of a curse as it gave me too much time to think about and consider different options. Once you've evaluated your realistic options, at a certain point it's better just to commit to something and see it through, become the best that you can be at whatever your choose. Committing now can actually give you more freedom down the line, because if you get good at something you will have a track record which makes it easier to switch later if you want. Whereas spending too much time exploring your freedom now can constrain you later if you're playing catch-up because you got started later. And looking back from aged 46 now when people have their careers, paths, families etc, the choices seemed a lot more important at the time than they do now. It's kind of like they were going to happen anyway and all I ever did was resist them to a greater or lesser extent.

Oh yeah, and reacting badly to anti-histamines is pretty common for people with sensitive nervous systems. I don't like taking them and when I do they make be feel totally out of wack and a bit down.

Good luck!
agnostic

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/27/20 7:04 AM as a reply to agnostic.
I realize that all I did there was paraphrase the classic zen career advice: "Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water." Whatever you choose to do, you're going to be carrying around a "piece of paper" stating your qualifications, even if it just says woodcutter.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/27/20 7:12 AM as a reply to Gregor.
 I think it will be Psychology and from there I plan to move towards Cognitive Science but on the other hand I'd also like to put more emphasis on creativity. I'm financially stable and got tons of time to think about it but the topic came up this morning. 

Gregor, this sounds like a good plan.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/27/20 12:38 PM as a reply to agnostic.
agnostic:
Hi Gregor,

Ego-backlash is very normal at certain stages. No one likes being pushed out of a job and the ego is just the same! But don't worry, the job will still get done even without an ego! (You will never not have an ego, I just mean once you've got the "ego joke".) I remember getting into stupid arguments and behaving unreasonably at times, probably still do.

Daniel says something in his book to the effect of "if you're going to awaken, make sure you have a life worth waking up to". That doesn't mean you shouldn't seriously consider your options and what's right for you, just be aware that you might be more inclined than normal to make drastic life-changing decisions at this stage. At a certain point you have to go with something practical that makes sense in your circumstances and trust that things will work out. It helps to have a grounding activity which is unrelated to your practice, which is probably the last thing you want to hear when your practice is so important to you and you're having major insights and breakthroughs.

One thing you can do is take your occupation or activity or studies or whatever and make it part of your practice in a a kind of tantric way. You are sort of looking to "manifest" yourself in your activity. It sounds like the opposite of anatta/not-self insight, but it is related. If there's no fixed identity then you are free to be manifested in whatever way the universe deems appropriate and that can involve a kind of surrender which helps release your attachment to old patterns of fixed identity. It might sound a bit woo woo but there's a lot of quite practical stuff on tantra and manifesting, here's a link to Lama Yeshe's book. Obviously this should all be done in co-ordination with your teachers, career advisor, parents etc., but it's a different mindset that might be helpful for you. A year ago I was stuck in my business so I mentally "gave it up" (released the attachment) which actually made me more free to do it.

While I'm here doling out the responsible Dad advice (tantra?!!! WTF!!), I remember that time of studies/career choices and feeling that there was tons of time to think about it. I was also relatively financially stable, which seemed like a blessing at the time but was probably more of a curse as it gave me too much time to think about and consider different options. Once you've evaluated your realistic options, at a certain point it's better just to commit to something and see it through, become the best that you can be at whatever your choose. Committing now can actually give you more freedom down the line, because if you get good at something you will have a track record which makes it easier to switch later if you want. Whereas spending too much time exploring your freedom now can constrain you later if you're playing catch-up because you got started later. And looking back from aged 46 now when people have their careers, paths, families etc, the choices seemed a lot more important at the time than they do now. It's kind of like they were going to happen anyway and all I ever did was resist them to a greater or lesser extent.

Oh yeah, and reacting badly to anti-histamines is pretty common for people with sensitive nervous systems. I don't like taking them and when I do they make be feel totally out of wack and a bit down.

Good luck!
agnostic
Hey Agnostic, 

thanks a lot for the time and effort you put into this. I actually love your advice, Tantra is awesome IMO, definitely better than the Theravada renunciation kinda stuff, which seems to be pretty dysfunctional. I heared quite a lot about Lama Yeshe, I'll definitely give it a read, thank you for the recommendation. 
You are right about the educational part as well, I mean spirituality won't magically get me out of this life, so I'll do my best to master my new major. 
It's super strange, everything feels so normal, all the suffering, all the work which had to be done just to realize that everything is the way it is. Though, there's still curiosity to figure out how much more sufering can be reduced. Although the seeking has stopped, I'm curious about the depth of consciousness. 
Thanks a lot for the support, I really appreciate it!

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/27/20 12:40 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim Farrington:


Fantastic. Stay very alert to that.

A very good friend of mine used to be very good at driving stoned. This was good, because at that time he and i were almost always stoned, and almost always on the road. I remember driving through a mountain pass one night in the middle of a blizzard, him at the wheel, me riding shotgun. I was just tripping on the whirl and dance of the flurries, and seeing them as both the energy-particle play at subatomic levels and as the graphic represention of the storm of souls swirling through incarnation. That kind of stuff. And my buddy was just somehow keeping it between the lines, even though the lines themselves were long since obliterated and we were getting to the point where the red sticks they plant along certain mountain roads, to guide the snowplows, were becoming the main navigational markers. I could see that was how he was doing it, i was registering the red sticks on our right like him, but my body responding to those sticks feedback in real time would have had us in a roadside drift within 100 yards, and they would have found our frozen bodies in the car after the next thaw. But on he drove, and at some point he reached over and turned up the music. Santana. He loved Santana. And he said, "Did you ever see Santana play live? During his guitar riff solos, he turns around and plays to the picture of his Guru that he puts on top of an amplifier." And I said, maybe five minutes later, "wow."

You are sort of learning to live stoned. And you're doing spectacularly well at it, by most signs. Anything i can do, inside of my own five-minute plus lag time on feedback, to help you keep it between the lines and out of the snowbanks, is all i want to do with you right now. That, and really enjoy the ride. You can pick the music.


I really appreciate your help and your stories my friend, thanks a lot, I'll keep you posted(: 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/27/20 12:41 PM as a reply to Gregor.
Monday, April 27th

Just wanted to add that you guy's are awesome!(: 
Thanks for all the support! 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/28/20 12:01 PM as a reply to Gregor.
Tuesday, April 28th 

Meditated for 15 minutes without any problems, seems like review has come to an end. I'm back in Berlin, now I got time for reading and planning my future. Any book recommendations? Currently looking into neuro- and cognitve science but I am very open to new things. I found that there's still improvement needed in right speech, I'll probably start working with the Mindful Review by tomorrow.  

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/28/20 12:08 PM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:

Any book recommendations? 

The Open Secret
by Tony Parsons

The Ego Tunnel by Thomas Metzinger

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/28/20 12:16 PM as a reply to agnostic.
Thank you! 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/28/20 12:18 PM as a reply to Gregor.
I like to read about cognitive science in books written by a philosopher - Daniel Dennett. I'd start with Consciousness Explained:

https://www.amazon.com/Daniel-C.-Dennett/e/B000AQ21XS%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/28/20 2:30 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Thank you Chris, it's on my list(: 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/30/20 3:07 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Thursday, April 30th 

Yesterday I sat for 22 & 5 minutes. It was managable but after the second sit things got a bit uncomfortable, so I decided to only sit for 15 minutes today and I'm doing well so far! Yesterday evening things got 'more empty' and I lost identification with the body, then I switched into a timeless state for a while. It's pretty interesting to see this happening although it can be a bit scary. 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
4/30/20 3:25 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Thursday, April 30th 

Yesterday I sat for 22 & 5 minutes. It was managable but after the second sit things got a bit uncomfortable, so I decided to only sit for 15 minutes today and I'm doing well so far! Yesterday evening things got 'more empty' and I lost identification with the body, then I switched into a timeless state for a while. It's pretty interesting to see this happening although it can be a bit scary. 
Nice!

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/3/20 10:17 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Sunday, May 03rd 

Hadn't got any time to write sth. up the last few days. 
Yesterday night I woke up at 03:30am (srs, idk why but weird stuff seems to always happen at that time) with a small panic attack, I slept at my friends house and it was so dark and silent that I lost orientation. After getting up the next day I felt a little bit dizzy and dissociated. 
I noticed that I don't experience emotions anymore and from time to time I experience a complette dissolving of the self on a deeper level, all preferences are then being removed from the experience + severe memory loss (this really messes me up). 
I am about to see my teacher now, I'll report back.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/3/20 3:12 PM as a reply to Gregor.
Hi Gregor,

It sounds like your system needs to catch up with your insights.Grounding activities are good at this point.

Take care,
agnostic

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/3/20 4:27 PM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Sunday, May 03rd 

Hadn't got any time to write sth. up the last few days. 
Yesterday night I woke up at 03:30am (srs, idk why but weird stuff seems to always happen at that time) with a small panic attack, I slept at my friends house and it was so dark and silent that I lost orientation. After getting up the next day I felt a little bit dizzy and dissociated. 
I noticed that I don't experience emotions anymore and from time to time I experience a complette dissolving of the self on a deeper level, all preferences are then being removed from the experience + severe memory loss (this really messes me up). 
I am about to see my teacher now, I'll report back.
Yeah 3:30am is prime time for panic attacks and existential dread. There is nothing wrong with being scared shitless, at any time. This is scary shit.

Great, to see your teacher! Let us know how that gos, it will be interesting. Thanks for your courage in this sharing.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/3/20 4:29 PM as a reply to agnostic.
agnostic:
Gregor:

Any book recommendations? 

The Open Secret
by Tony Parsons

The Ego Tunnel by Thomas Metzinger
Anything by Pema Chodron.

A Hell of Mercy, by Tim Farrington (no brag, just fact.)

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/3/20 4:29 PM as a reply to agnostic.
agnostic:
Hi Gregor,

It sounds like your system needs to catch up with your insights.Grounding activities are good at this point.

Take care,
agnostic
true this.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/4/20 4:34 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Thx!

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/4/20 4:35 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
I'll keep you posted!

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/4/20 4:42 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
I'll keep you posted!


you better, my ass is flapping in the wind here. I'm trusting you to turn out to be an arahant in the rough.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/4/20 1:08 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim Farrington:


you better, my ass is flapping in the wind here. I'm trusting you to turn out to be an arahant in the rough.


I wish! Today there's been a lot of identification + dissatisfaction, I feel totally unawake, we'll see what happens tomorrow(: 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/4/20 1:13 PM as a reply to Gregor.
Monday, May 04th 

I sat for 12 minutes today, doing absolutely nothing. My teacher reommended me the book "The Method of No-Method: The Chan Practice of Silent Illumination," just ordered it, I am excited. It's probably a 300 page manual on "sit and do nothing" but since we all know 'do nothing' is hard practice! 
*I just noticed that I have those ego backlashes only on days where I am meditating, I guess I'll take two days off and see if there's a difference 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/4/20 1:16 PM as a reply to Gregor.
That's fine, this is a totally normal stage. The trick is to accept it for what it is - you could read this section in MCTB if you haven't already. This can be the most fruitful time for your practice, even although it feels like it sucks.
Hang in there
agnostic

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/4/20 1:34 PM as a reply to agnostic.
agnostic:
That's fine, this is a totally normal stage. The trick is to accept it for what it is - you could read this section in MCTB if you haven't already. This can be the most fruitful time for your practice, even although it feels like it sucks.
Hang in there
agnostic


Thanks agnostic, 

practicing acceptance is currently my main practice! I stopped cycling through the PoI completely 1 months ago, so I am not sure if I'll ever be in a 'classical' DN again. My teacher said that the transformation is non linear after technical 4th path, I'm excited on what's coming next after this has settled. I found Kenneth's map of awakening quite exciting http://web.archive.org/web/20130116164653/http://kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/A+9+Stage+Map+of+Developmental+Enlightenment 
Anyways, I appreciate your advice as always my friend! 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/5/20 7:02 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Tuesday, May 05th 

I went in my bedroom yesterday at 11:30pm, I remember checking some mails. The next thing I remember is getting conscious 2 hours later at 1:30am, I didn't sleep tho and I know there was consciousness during those 2 hours but I still have zero recollection of it. I felt kind of shocked and disoriented afterwards, I tried to go to bed. My mind entered some formless realm and I perceived inner lights which were quite uncomfortable, given the experience I had. I really ask myself why Review tends to be so heavy while the actual path seems to be pretty mundane. 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/7/20 1:08 PM as a reply to Gregor.
Thursday, May 07th 

Today I experienced something wonderful. 

Yesterday I started reading 'Trauma Sensitive Mindfulness' when the thought creeped in that my difficulties could be trauma related, but I was still dismissive about the idea. This morning I decided to meditate, after 10 minutes I felt that I hit the sweet spot, I left the cushion and went out for a walk while enjoying a 'Club Mate.' I was sitting in the park reading my book while embracing the good vibes of nature. After a while it appeared to me again that my agitated and dissociated mind is probably not related to the Review phase of the path and that my symptoms were trauma induced instead. I was totally aversive to this idea, because I never associated trauma as something which could be caused by meditation, I always thought about it as loosing a family member or being involved in a car accident. I immediately decided to return to my apartment, my gut feeling told me that 'this' is it, that I just found the solution to my problem. I was never really an intuitive person but this time my gut feeling was right. On my way home I noticed that my body was walking faster and that my mind was spinning around thoughts of the past. I remembered all the sleepless nights, the dissociattion and so on. At home I skipped through my computer files, looking for the Bioemotive Framework. When I used it in the past, the emotion/feeling words didn't trigger me much (on a scale of 1-10 mostly not more than a 3). After speaking a few word outlouds I noticed a heavy reaction, I was activated by around a 7-9. I kept going and going, I came up with a list of roughly 50 words. I spoke every word outloud, the closer I got, the heavier the activation. I decided to lay down on my sofa, one second later I started shaking and crying emotionless. The Kriyas continued for 1 hour, the crying did so too. At the end I felt physically exhausted, I almost destroyed my landlords sofa + the shaking got so intense that I was about to hurt myself. My muscles started cramping very intensively. 'Imprisoned,' that was the word which described my feeling, I felt stuck, vulnerable and disturbed, the feeling was located at the center point and it made perfectly sense to me. My experience in February was a huge Kriya which left my identity traumatized. After I was done, the feeling started to fade slowly, I took a shower and started crying again, the crying soon ended in laughing and I experienced self-love for one of the first times ever. It wasn't felt emotionally, it was rather a knowing of 'this is it.' Now I feel like a huge burden has been lifted from my shoulders. It's not comparable with path experience, this feels more like 'the self' has healed. The entire time I questioned what healing is about if there's no self but I now remember my teachers words "It's not about destroying the self, it's about transforming it." 

-

Been having a ton of purifications since the release, never thought that I'd be so overwhleming tho. Feels like there are more identity structures which are about to drop away - the suffering is tremendous.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/8/20 4:25 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Thursday, May 07th 

Today I experienced something wonderful. 

Yesterday I started reading 'Trauma Sensitive Mindfulness' when the thought creeped in that my difficulties could be trauma related, but I was still dismissive about the idea. This morning I decided to meditate, after 10 minutes I felt that I hit the sweet spot, I left the cushion and went out for a walk while enjoying a 'Club Mate.' I was sitting in the park reading my book while embracing the good vibes of nature. After a while it appeared to me again that my agitated and dissociated mind is probably not related to the Review phase of the path and that my symptoms were trauma induced instead. I was totally aversive to this idea, because I never associated trauma as something which could be caused by meditation, I always thought about it as loosing a family member or being involved in a car accident. I immediately decided to return to my apartment, my gut feeling told me that 'this' is it, that I just found the solution to my problem. I was never really an intuitive person but this time my gut feeling was right. On my way home I noticed that my body was walking faster and that my mind was spinning around thoughts of the past. I remembered all the sleepless nights, the dissociattion and so on. At home I skipped through my computer files, looking for the Bioemotive Framework. When I used it in the past, the emotion/feeling words didn't trigger me much (on a scale of 1-10 mostly not more than a 3). After speaking a few word outlouds I noticed a heavy reaction, I was activated by around a 7-9. I kept going and going, I came up with a list of roughly 50 words. I spoke every word outloud, the closer I got, the heavier the activation. I decided to lay down on my sofa, one second later I started shaking and crying emotionless. The Kriyas continued for 1 hour, the crying did so too. At the end I felt physically exhausted, I almost destroyed my landlords sofa + the shaking got so intense that I was about to hurt myself. My muscles started cramping very intensively. 'Imprisoned,' that was the word which described my feeling, I felt stuck, vulnerable and disturbed, the feeling was located at the center point and it made perfectly sense to me. My experience in February was a huge Kriya which left my identity traumatized. After I was done, the feeling started to fade slowly, I took a shower and started crying again, the crying soon ended in laughing and I experienced self-love for one of the first times ever. It wasn't felt emotionally, it was rather a knowing of 'this is it.' Now I feel like a huge burden has been lifted from my shoulders. It's not comparable with path experience, this feels more like 'the self' has healed. The entire time I questioned what healing is about if there's no self but I now remember my teachers words "It's not about destroying the self, it's about transforming it." 

-

Been having a ton of purifications since the release, never thought that I'd be so overwhleming tho. Feels like there are more identity structures which are about to drop away - the suffering is tremendous.
I believe this wisdom applies to Every Fucking Moment on the Path, Any Path:
 
Shargrol
"A gentler approach is to have the intention to stay on the breath, allow for both success and failure to happen, and when failure eventually happens (which of course it will, that's built into the practice, no big deal) --- then the important part of practice happens: noting what was so seductive to the mind. The important thing isn't to get a A+ in class for staying on the breath, it's to learn about how your own mind works. It's learning directly what seduces the mind, and once we know, we can't be very confused anymore. Over time, with the gentler approach, the mind will follow the intention and stay on the breath and it will be a much more sustainable. It won't require effort because your practice didn't require effort with the gentler approach. The mind can hold breathing in awareness without a big struggle".

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/8/20 4:34 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
emoticon
Gregor
After I was done, the feeling started to fade slowly, I took a shower and started crying again, the crying soon ended in laughing and I experienced self-love for one of the first times ever. It wasn't felt emotionally, it was rather a knowing of 'this is it.' Now I feel like a huge burden has been lifted from my shoulders. It's not comparable with path experience, this feels more like 'the self' has healed. The entire time I questioned what healing is about if there's no self but I now remember my teachers words "It's not about destroying the self, it's about transforming it." 


Been having a ton of purifications since the release, never thought that I'd be so overwhleming tho. Feels like there are more identity structures which are about to drop away - the suffering is tremendous.
yeah, man. You go. Holler if you need help, but you've got this one this time, all the way


love, tim

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/9/20 7:18 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Thursday, May 07th 

Today I experienced something wonderful. 

Yesterday I started reading 'Trauma Sensitive Mindfulness' when the thought creeped in that my difficulties could be trauma related, but I was still dismissive about the idea. This morning I decided to meditate, after 10 minutes I felt that I hit the sweet spot, I left the cushion and went out for a walk while enjoying a 'Club Mate.' I was sitting in the park reading my book while embracing the good vibes of nature. After a while it appeared to me again that my agitated and dissociated mind is probably not related to the Review phase of the path and that my symptoms were trauma induced instead. I was totally aversive to this idea, because I never associated trauma as something which could be caused by meditation, I always thought about it as loosing a family member or being involved in a car accident.

Hi Gregor,

I know where you're coming from with this one. Sometimes just being born can be a trauma. It all depends how your body handles it. Some people go through terrible experiences without trauma and some people experience terrible trauma from relatively "untraumatic" experiences. If you are one of the latter then you can also feel guilty about feeling trauma from something relatively "minor", which just adds insult to injury. A lot of people carry those traumas deep down inside and suffer from them all their lives. I am glad to hear that you are releasing some of the trauma and sharing it with us here.

Thanks
agnostic

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/9/20 9:41 AM as a reply to agnostic.
agnostic:
Gregor:
Thursday, May 07th 

Today I experienced something wonderful. 

Yesterday I started reading 'Trauma Sensitive Mindfulness' when the thought creeped in that my difficulties could be trauma related, but I was still dismissive about the idea. This morning I decided to meditate, after 10 minutes I felt that I hit the sweet spot, I left the cushion and went out for a walk while enjoying a 'Club Mate.' I was sitting in the park reading my book while embracing the good vibes of nature. After a while it appeared to me again that my agitated and dissociated mind is probably not related to the Review phase of the path and that my symptoms were trauma induced instead. I was totally aversive to this idea, because I never associated trauma as something which could be caused by meditation, I always thought about it as loosing a family member or being involved in a car accident.

Hi Gregor,

I know where you're coming from with this one. Sometimes just being born can be a trauma. It all depends how your body handles it. Some people go through terrible experiences without trauma and some people experience terrible trauma from relatively "untraumatic" experiences. If you are one of the latter then you can also feel guilty about feeling trauma from something relatively "minor", which just adds insult to injury. A lot of people carry those traumas deep down inside and suffer from them all their lives. I am glad to hear that you are releasing some of the trauma and sharing it with us here.

Thanks
agnostic

Thank you for your kind words, Agnostic! 

I'll see how to adress this issue properly.

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/11/20 9:32 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Monday, May 11th 

Dark Night is hitting me strong today, I thought I'd be done with the cycles but here we are again lol. Been having an increased resting heart rate, which scares the sh*t out of me. Woke up this morning with 82bpm, I am usually around 50 in the morning.
Lot's of disgust + the typical flu like feeling. 
I am still not meditating, which contributes to unwholesome habits. I'm on social media the entire time, I have to work this out, the dopamine reaction will kill my Jhana's for me otherwise. 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/11/20 9:55 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Monday, May 11th 

Dark Night is hitting me strong today, I thought I'd be done with the cycles but here we are again lol. Been having an increased resting heart rate, which scares the sh*t out of me. Woke up this morning with 82bpm, I am usually around 50 in the morning.
Lot's of disgust + the typical flu like feeling. 
I am still not meditating, which contributes to unwholesome habits. I'm on social media the entire time, I have to work this out, the dopamine reaction will kill my Jhana's for me otherwise. 
Maybe you're just really getting sick. Remeber, there's some kind of bug going around, from what I hear.

Disgust, yeah. I get my mail there still, never bothered to have a forwarding address set up. By the time i get to Desire for Deliverance, I couldn't give a shit abut mail, i'm traveling light.

You know i think a 2-minute sit once in a while cures everything, lol.

I'd avoid worrying too much about controlling your dopamine right now. It's bad enough to endure disgust without getting hung up on chemical stuff nobody really quite understands. And don't give the jhanas another thought either, right now, if i"m reading you right. The Dark Night is a horrific purgative, and you are shedding crap right now like a sheepdog in August. Just let that run its course, and don't add to the misery. You may not even be able to ease it much, at times, though look for ways to enjoy simple pleasures if possible. But the real key to the dark night is surrender of control--- to God, in the theistic traditions, to the deep wisdom of your deep body and mind, in more DhO-like terms. In either case, there are wiser hands on the wheel right now, as you ride through this shit, than you can know. If you can live with that right now, you're golden. The rest is just tsuris and sweat, and don't mess with it much, on principle. Just burn. That's plenty, yeah?

hang in there mein Freund, just shelter in place and let the big nausea blow through. Hardest place, and best place, to do almost nothing, and that very gently.

love, tim

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/11/20 3:22 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim Farrington:

Maybe you're just really getting sick. Remeber, there's some kind of bug going around, from what I hear.

Disgust, yeah. I get my mail there still, never bothered to have a forwarding address set up. By the time i get to Desire for Deliverance, I couldn't give a shit abut mail, i'm traveling light.

You know i think a 2-minute sit once in a while cures everything, lol.

I'd avoid worrying too much about controlling your dopamine right now. It's bad enough to endure disgust without getting hung up on chemical stuff nobody really quite understands. And don't give the jhanas another thought either, right now, if i"m reading you right. The Dark Night is a horrific purgative, and you are shedding crap right now like a sheepdog in August. Just let that run its course, and don't add to the misery. You may not even be able to ease it much, at times, though look for ways to enjoy simple pleasures if possible. But the real key to the dark night is surrender of control--- to God, in the theistic traditions, to the deep wisdom of your deep body and mind, in more DhO-like terms. In either case, there are wiser hands on the wheel right now, as you ride through this shit, than you can know. If you can live with that right now, you're golden. The rest is just tsuris and sweat, and don't mess with it much, on principle. Just burn. That's plenty, yeah?

hang in there mein Freund, just shelter in place and let the big nausea blow through. Hardest place, and best place, to do almost nothing, and that very gently.

love, tim

Thanks Tim! Yeah, I'm to exhausted to fix anything in my experience anyways, thanks for keeping an eye on me. 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/14/20 5:50 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Thursday, May 14th 

Something seems to be off with my heart since Friday. I took medication Friday night, my heart rate was elevated until the next morning. During Saturday I didn't notice it but I remember waking up with an elevated heart rate on Sunday as well. Pretty much since last weekend my resting heart rate is elevated + my heart feels extremely vulnerable. I went to the doctor on Tuesday, she did an ECG and a blood test. The test was negative. I went to the doctor again this morning for an ultrasound test. She was testing my heart for 25mins, was funny to see how little EQ I had. My mind inquired on my death since one week, the fact that it took her so long didn't contribute well to my situation... Anyways, the doc said I'm fine but I'll have a stress test tomorrow. 
People on the r/streamentry seem to belief that it's anxiety or fear, I dont agree though. 
There's a lot of energetic tension at the heart are, which can of freaks me out. Integration phase also sucks, there are still ups and downs, everything seems to be pretty mundane besides the fact that I feel like loosing my mind since it's either existence or non existence. 
Life is such a mess, I hate it. 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/14/20 6:02 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Thursday, May 14th 

Something seems to be off with my heart since Friday. I took medication Friday night, my heart rate was elevated until the next morning. During Saturday I didn't notice it but I remember waking up with an elevated heart rate on Sunday as well. Pretty much since last weekend my resting heart rate is elevated + my heart feels extremely vulnerable. I went to the doctor on Tuesday, she did an ECG and a blood test. The test was negative. I went to the doctor again this morning for an ultrasound test. She was testing my heart for 25mins, was funny to see how little EQ I had. My mind inquired on my death since one week, the fact that it took her so long didn't contribute well to my situation... Anyways, the doc said I'm fine but I'll have a stress test tomorrow. 
People on the r/streamentry seem to belief that it's anxiety or fear, I dont agree though. 
There's a lot of energetic tension at the heart are, which can of freaks me out. Integration phase also sucks, there are still ups and downs, everything seems to be pretty mundane besides the fact that I feel like loosing my mind since it's either existence or non existence. 
 
yeah, losing the mind is a drag. but only if you have to interact with fuckheads. Avoid fuckheads, and let your mind get lost entirely. no half ass here, only the full monty now.


Life is such a mess, I hate it.

yeah, me too. i'd kill anybody who tried to call this shit progress right now.

love, tim

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/14/20 6:05 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor, you're doing the right thing getting your heart checked by a physician.

Stay well!

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/16/20 5:21 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Thanks Chris! 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/16/20 5:35 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Saturday, May 16th 

I had a very nice meditation with Tim on Thursday, since then I ramped up my on-cushion time and it seems like I can now sit for almost 20 minutes without loosing my mind, which feels liberating. 
On Thursday night I was quite depressed, identification came back and it seemed like all insight knowledges were taken away from me, I was really upset, all the suffering for nothing? These constant up's and downs are extremely frustrating. In one moment everything is perfect and magical and in the next moment everything is taken away from me, it caused a lot of psychological suffering for me, although I know that it's just attachment and I can't do nothing about it. Yesterday my mind opened up again and the magick returned, non-self is a beautiful 'state.' The intensity varies tho and I'd like to 'deepen' this 'selfrecognizing awareness'/or loosing more identity.
I also noticed that when I read books, the information rarely sticks, I know that I am paying attention but it seems like my mind is categorizing it as not useful, or “Gregor doesn't need to read books, these are just meaningless letters." 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/16/20 9:32 PM as a reply to Gregor.
Hi Gregor,

Sorry to hear about your heart problems. These ups and downs are frustrating but they are a sign of progress I think. It's because you are noticing everything much more! Before you probably wouldn't have been so aware and they would have just played out in whatever distracting activities you did before taking up meditation. It may feel like things are worse, but that's just a "corruption of insight", you are on the right track! Be gentle with yourself, you don't need impossibly high standards right now or a certain way things need to be, you can just roll with waves a little. It's great that you are on here posting openly about what's going on in fair weather and foul.

All the best
agnostic

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/17/20 1:49 PM as a reply to agnostic.
agnostic:
Hi Gregor,

Sorry to hear about your heart problems. These ups and downs are frustrating but they are a sign of progress I think. It's because you are noticing everything much more! Before you probably wouldn't have been so aware and they would have just played out in whatever distracting activities you did before taking up meditation. It may feel like things are worse, but that's just a "corruption of insight", you are on the right track! Be gentle with yourself, you don't need impossibly high standards right now or a certain way things need to be, you can just roll with waves a little. It's great that you are on here posting openly about what's going on in fair weather and foul.

All the best
agnostic
Your words are very appreciated, Agnostic! 
I spoke to my teacher about this today and she told me that I can imagine this entire process included the up's and down's as a way of cycling around on a spiral, very nice metaphor. 
I love posting here, it calms down my mind and if you guy's have fun reading it, then everyone benefits. 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/19/20 8:12 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
agnostic:
Hi Gregor,

Sorry to hear about your heart problems. These ups and downs are frustrating but they are a sign of progress I think. It's because you are noticing everything much more! Before you probably wouldn't have been so aware and they would have just played out in whatever distracting activities you did before taking up meditation. It may feel like things are worse, but that's just a "corruption of insight", you are on the right track! Be gentle with yourself, you don't need impossibly high standards right now or a certain way things need to be, you can just roll with waves a little. It's great that you are on here posting openly about what's going on in fair weather and foul.

All the best
agnostic
Your words are very appreciated, Agnostic! 
I spoke to my teacher about this today and she told me that I can imagine this entire process included the up's and down's as a way of cycling around on a spiral, very nice metaphor. 
I love posting here, it calms down my mind and if you guy's have fun reading it, then everyone benefits. 

Well, then, post, man, post!

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/19/20 8:24 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Tuesday, May 19th 

Reobsevation this morning, thought I would loose my sh*t. Now it's EQ, lots of emotionless crying about the beauty of everything, there is this love which seems to penetrate my consciousness but it's not felt emotionally, nor is it known intellectually - I cannot put it into words, all I know is that I know nothing and my mind is okay with it. 

RE: Gregor's log
Answer
5/19/20 11:21 AM as a reply to Gregor.
Gregor:
Tuesday, May 19th 

Reobsevation this morning, thought I would loose my sh*t. Now it's EQ, lots of emotionless crying about the beauty of everything, there is this love which seems to penetrate my consciousness but it's not felt emotionally, nor is it known intellectually - I cannot put it into words, all I know is that I know nothing and my mind is okay with it. 

succinctly put.