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Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.

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Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Matthew C 7/1/20 9:33 AM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Ni Nurta 7/1/20 11:03 AM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Matthew C 7/1/20 11:30 AM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. An Eternal Now 7/2/20 12:47 AM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Ni Nurta 7/2/20 11:24 AM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. An Eternal Now 7/3/20 12:30 PM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Ni Nurta 7/5/20 3:21 AM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Tim Farrington 7/5/20 4:22 AM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. An Eternal Now 7/5/20 7:32 AM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Ni Nurta 7/5/20 9:16 AM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Chris Marti 7/5/20 9:22 AM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Ni Nurta 7/5/20 4:13 PM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Chris Marti 7/6/20 7:25 AM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Ben Sulsky 7/6/20 9:59 AM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Ni Nurta 7/6/20 12:10 PM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Chris Marti 7/6/20 1:05 PM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Matthew C 7/2/20 3:53 PM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Tim Farrington 7/3/20 5:39 AM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Matthew C 7/3/20 7:09 AM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Tim Farrington 7/3/20 7:20 AM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Ben Sulsky 7/3/20 11:05 AM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Matthew C 7/3/20 12:31 PM
RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different. Brian 7/2/20 6:25 AM
Hello,

Some background - I'm a twenty seven year old male and I've been meditiating for three years using TMI mainly as a resource. I've been fiddling around with the psyche for years with various bits of psychonautic techniques, magick etc.
I first became aware of the maps/POI a few months ago and it was interesting to see how I've been cycling up and down them previous to knowing about them ( I've always kept quite exhaustive journals of my meditative experiences both on and off the cushion)
Anyway. Two weeks ago I was going through a particularly bad dark night/ purification whatever the hell you want to call it. Probably the worst one I've ever had. I've never felt anger and rage that intense before it was pretty insane. With no obvious end in sight ( in past experiences through this stage I've just rode it out, meditating through it using the breath as an object with sheet willpower alone) I decided to sit with it for an hour in formal meditiation and just observe all this rage and extremely violent and aggressive emotions with objectivity. 
I sat down and to cut a long story short the feelings rose to a crescendo, I popped into equanimity and then something happened.
I had a complete subject/object collapse.
My consciousness expanded to be both paradoxically nothing and just purely raw sensations at the same time. I was no long an "I" the only thing "I"was, was the actual sensations themselves -  not the experience of them.
I came out of the session absolutely filled with joy and bliss.
Now over the next week this no self / me existing only as sensations/ sensations just happening has only solidified Into a baseline, consistent state.
My meditiation sessions have been phenomenal- effortless concentration with zero distractions when concetraing on the breath, jhanas with ease and the majority of the sessions spent ( as the majority of my day is but it's wayy more intense during meditiation) in a complete no self / raw sensations are they are experience.
I can tap Into the no self state at will and it happens on its own accord as well thought the day. Over the last week I've had unity experiences outside of meditiation, which are very similiar to LSD experiences I've had.
I've not been effected by discomfort in daily life or my sessions and negative ( aswell as positive) sensations / experiences are just felt for what they are - experiences and sensations just resolving themselves without any actual weight .
This certainly feels different from anything I've experienced before ( including multiple A and P cycles) is this the big S ? What do you think. And where do I go from here?

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/1/20 11:03 AM as a reply to Matthew C.
Sounds very nice emoticon

There is a difference between experiencing Nibbana and having experience of no self so my initial assumption would be this is not yet Stream Entry.

Funneling experiences through sense of self isn't bad in itself but when it is forced by not knowing you can do without it then it gets very tiring after a while. Your description suggests that your brain started discovering it can manage to experience things more directly without using sense of self as a proxy. This is very good sign.

I would suggest to just explore these new mind states, see how they work, how old state works, how sense of self, works, what is the difference between new and old, etc. normal things.

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/1/20 11:30 AM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
Thanks for the reply! 
Yes I think that's the plan - just explore and see where this leads. Luckily I've never been " hooked " on attainment as it were, my attitude has always been exploration and letting whatever happens happens. I go on with it! emoticon

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/2/20 12:47 AM as a reply to Matthew C.
Matthew C:
Hello,

Some background - I'm a twenty seven year old male and I've been meditiating for three years using TMI mainly as a resource. I've been fiddling around with the psyche for years with various bits of psychonautic techniques, magick etc.
I first became aware of the maps/POI a few months ago and it was interesting to see how I've been cycling up and down them previous to knowing about them ( I've always kept quite exhaustive journals of my meditative experiences both on and off the cushion)
Anyway. Two weeks ago I was going through a particularly bad dark night/ purification whatever the hell you want to call it. Probably the worst one I've ever had. I've never felt anger and rage that intense before it was pretty insane. With no obvious end in sight ( in past experiences through this stage I've just rode it out, meditating through it using the breath as an object with sheet willpower alone) I decided to sit with it for an hour in formal meditiation and just observe all this rage and extremely violent and aggressive emotions with objectivity. 
I sat down and to cut a long story short the feelings rose to a crescendo, I popped into equanimity and then something happened.
I had a complete subject/object collapse.
My consciousness expanded to be both paradoxically nothing and just purely raw sensations at the same time. I was no long an "I" the only thing "I"was, was the actual sensations themselves -  not the experience of them.
I came out of the session absolutely filled with joy and bliss.
Now over the next week this no self / me existing only as sensations/ sensations just happening has only solidified Into a baseline, consistent state.
My meditiation sessions have been phenomenal- effortless concentration with zero distractions when concetraing on the breath, jhanas with ease and the majority of the sessions spent ( as the majority of my day is but it's wayy more intense during meditiation) in a complete no self / raw sensations are they are experience.
I can tap Into the no self state at will and it happens on its own accord as well thought the day. Over the last week I've had unity experiences outside of meditiation, which are very similiar to LSD experiences I've had.
I've not been effected by discomfort in daily life or my sessions and negative ( aswell as positive) sensations / experiences are just felt for what they are - experiences and sensations just resolving themselves without any actual weight .
This certainly feels different from anything I've experienced before ( including multiple A and P cycles) is this the big S ? What do you think. And where do I go from here?

You seem to be experiencing what i call a state of no-mind

but keep in mind it is more an experience than realization

realization is more important

these links may be helpful and explanatory


http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2018/10/differentiating-i-am-one-mind-no-mind.html

https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2018/11/no-mind-and-anatta-focusing-on-insight.html

https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2019/09/robert-dominiks-breakthrough.html

http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2008/01/ajahn-amaro-on-non-duality-and.html including comments section

also i wrote many years ago:

"
First I do not see Anatta as merely a freeing from personality sort of experience as you mentioned; I see it as that a self/agent, a doer, a thinker, a watcher, etc, cannot be found apart from the moment to moment flow of manifestation or as its commonly expressed as ‘the observer is the observed’; there is no self apart from arising and passing. A very important point here is that Anatta/No-Self is a Dharma Seal, it is the nature of Reality all the time -- and not merely as a state free from personality, ego or the ‘small self’ or a stage to attain. This means that it does not depend on the level of achievement of a practitioner to experience anatta but Reality has always been Anatta and what is important here is the intuitive insight into it as the nature, characteristic, of phenomenon (dharma seal). 

To put further emphasis on the importance of this point, I would like to borrow from the Bahiya Sutta (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.1.10.irel.html) that ‘in the seeing, there is just the seen, no seer’, ‘in the hearing, there is just the heard, no hearer’ as an illustration. When a person says that I have gone beyond the experiences from ‘I hear sound’ to a stage of ‘becoming sound’, he is mistaken. When it is taken to be a stage, it is illusory. For in actual case, there is and always is only sound when hearing; never was there a hearer to begin with. Nothing attained for it is always so. This is the seal of no-self. Therefore to a non dualist, the practice is in understanding the illusionary views of the sense of self and the split. Before the awakening of prajna wisdom, there will always be an unknowing attempt to maintain a purest state of 'presence'. This purest presence is the 'how' of a dualistic mind -- its dualistic attempt to provide a solution due to its lack of clarity of the spontaneous nature of the unconditioned. It is critical to note here that both the doubts/confusions/searches and the solutions that are created for these doubts/confusions/searches actually derive from the same cause -- our karmic propensities of ever seeing things dualistically"

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/2/20 6:25 AM as a reply to Matthew C.
Did you have a cessation? Do you think you saw dependent origination?

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/2/20 11:24 AM as a reply to An Eternal Now.
An Eternal Now:
You seem to be experiencing what i call a state of no-mind

Can it really be called "no mind" though?
It sounds like a basic form of non dual perception also called "no self" because all it does is not include sense of self thus experiences are just floating there.
I would expect no mind to not include any form of perception or non-perception so 8th jhana based mind state.

but keep in mind it is more an experience than realization
realization is more important

Realizations are just thoughts.
Of course these thoughts might arise in response to experiences and experiences do arise response to thoughts.

Realization might seems true because thinking about it give rise to some mind state so there is illusion of strong correlation.

Thought to be true realization it must make sense outside experiential reality of person who is thinking about the thought.

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/2/20 3:53 PM as a reply to An Eternal Now.
Let me preface this by saying I'm finding it hard to explain this using the correct words." It" is not an experience " it " isnt even an "it" it just feels now like pheneomeon know themselves.. there's an almost field like nature to it all, everything just doing what it does without a " me ". Yet paradoxically it sometimes seems like I am the sensations themselves, or someone has taken an eraser and rubbed " me " out and I'm just pure perception. Is it because I've read some vedanta and some buddhisim and the mind is trying to integrate what's happening via these two sources of info?

An eternal now - the seen only the seen without a seer etc. Is basically it. That's pretty much what it feels like ( but again it's not a feeling it's just the way reality is, the language is difficult). Thanks for the links I've had a quick skim and there's some very very Interesting stuff there I'll be sure to read through tonight.

Brian - no cessation event from what I can recall. And in regards to dependent origination, are we talking about the causal interdependence of pheneomeon? Then yes sure, phenomenon and phenomenon resulting in phenomenon resulting in pheneomeon etc etc, then yes that clear. Everything feels like a system at times.

This comes and goes. My baseline state is 50/50 I'd say between self and this nondual/no separate self. However a shift is occurring almost in an oscillating fashion throughout the day, seemingly on its own, whenever I pay close attention to reality or during / after meditiation.
By just sitting/laying down I enter this state immediately. No separate self just the sensations knowing themselves. Again it's not fully there it comes and goes ( language is hard ! It doesn't comes per say as it's not happening to me, it's not a " thing "). 
I've been messing around with some of the techniques in " initiation into hermetics ". One of the techs is called " vacancy of mind". So the jist is you try to enter a state with no thoughts occurring at all just pure perception itself, it's considered the hardest of the exercises and I can do it effortlessly now. When doing this i loose all bodily feeling and reference and get into some pretty expansive and blend like places. They may be the highe jhanas im not sure. My normal samatha sessions basically consist of acquired appearance of all phenomenon and effortless concentration on body/breath whatever.
So yer.. interesting stuff whatever it is. Thanks

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/3/20 5:39 AM as a reply to Matthew C.
Matthew C:
Let me preface this by saying I'm finding it hard to explain this using the correct words." It" is not an experience " it " isnt even an "it" it just feels now like pheneomeon know themselves.. there's an almost field like nature to it all, everything just doing what it does without a " me ". Yet paradoxically it sometimes seems like I am the sensations themselves, or someone has taken an eraser and rubbed " me " out and I'm just pure perception. Is it because I've read some vedanta and some buddhisim and the mind is trying to integrate what's happening via these two sources of info?

An eternal now - the seen only the seen without a seer etc. Is basically it. That's pretty much what it feels like ( but again it's not a feeling it's just the way reality is, the language is difficult). Thanks for the links I've had a quick skim and there's some very very Interesting stuff there I'll be sure to read through tonight.

Brian - no cessation event from what I can recall. And in regards to dependent origination, are we talking about the causal interdependence of pheneomeon? Then yes sure, phenomenon and phenomenon resulting in phenomenon resulting in pheneomeon etc etc, then yes that clear. Everything feels like a system at times.

This comes and goes. My baseline state is 50/50 I'd say between self and this nondual/no separate self. However a shift is occurring almost in an oscillating fashion throughout the day, seemingly on its own, whenever I pay close attention to reality or during / after meditiation.
By just sitting/laying down I enter this state immediately. No separate self just the sensations knowing themselves. Again it's not fully there it comes and goes ( language is hard ! It doesn't comes per say as it's not happening to me, it's not a " thing "). 
I've been messing around with some of the techniques in " initiation into hermetics ". One of the techs is called " vacancy of mind". So the jist is you try to enter a state with no thoughts occurring at all just pure perception itself, it's considered the hardest of the exercises and I can do it effortlessly now. When doing this i loose all bodily feeling and reference and get into some pretty expansive and blend like places. They may be the highe jhanas im not sure. My normal samatha sessions basically consist of acquired appearance of all phenomenon and effortless concentration on body/breath whatever.
So yer.. interesting stuff whatever it is. Thanks

Hi Matthew,

Hey, welcome to the forum! Splashy entrance, lol.
interesting stuff whatever it is.
 that's your way forward. The further you go on the path, it seems to me, the more this sheer strange inexplicable response to what comes and goes with suffering and without self, this "interest," seems both precious and miraculous. Enjoy this stretch of the walk. It'll turn to shit soon enough, lol.

Again, glad to have you aboard, my friend.

love, tim

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/3/20 7:09 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Hi Tim thanks for the advice !
Interest and self exploration has always been my driving factor and it's what ultimately keeps me coming back. I can't help but noticing that I can relate to the old mystics and texts in ways I never dreamed id be able to .I may have even thought at some level half of it was bullshit from a " primitive " society but yer when it's not only staring you in the face it actually becomes your face so to speak it's brilliant. I may even be starting to sound like an old mystic at some points :p but up ultimately  that's the language I find myself naturally coming to. 
Thanks.

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/3/20 7:20 AM as a reply to Matthew C.
Matthew C:
Hi Tim thanks for the advice !
Interest and self exploration has always been my driving factor and it's what ultimately keeps me coming back. I can't help but noticing that I can relate to the old mystics and texts in ways I never dreamed id be able to .I may have even thought at some level half of it was bullshit from a " primitive " society but yer when it's not only staring you in the face it actually becomes your face so to speak it's brilliant. I may even be starting to sound like an old mystic at some points :p but up ultimately  that's the language I find myself naturally coming to. 
Thanks.

Matthew C, amigo,

I think the old sacred texts are infinitely fruitful, and newly to the new eyes of every generation. One of the things i love about Daniel Ingram is that he just determined to find out what thise old scriptures REALLY WERE TALKING ABOUT. That's how it gets done, the renewal of the scripture's truth: somebody makes it new by finding the answer to their own satisfaction. Then they take shit from the "traditionalists," lol, because it's too damn new.

love, tim

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/3/20 11:05 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Impossible to diagonose over the internet, but sounds like equanimity to me, specifically 2nd subnana (A&P aspect) of equanimity.  

If it was stream entry it seems like you'd be more likely to have a cessation experience and to fast cycle during review.  

Sounds very enjoyable though !!


....Also random assumption to examine-- just cause something "feels big" doesn't mean it's stream entry.  Might be nice to just embrace the big feelingness of this part of the path without shoehorning it into having to be the big SE moment you might be anticipating

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/3/20 12:30 PM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
Ni Nurta:
An Eternal Now:
You seem to be experiencing what i call a state of no-mind

Can it really be called "no mind" though?
It sounds like a basic form of non dual perception also called "no self" because all it does is not include sense of self thus experiences are just floating there.
I would expect no mind to not include any form of perception or non-perception so 8th jhana based mind state.


My definition of "no mind" is not an unconscious state, and neither is it a jhana state. If anything, it is rather similar to what is known here as a PCE.

A temporary state where any sense of a duality between perceiver-perceived, agent-action, or any trace of self/Self, even being a "One Mind" dissolves into the vivid luminosity and radiance of manifestation or bare naked sensations without any trace of subjectivity.

Also, I am distinguishing "no mind" experience from realization of anatta. However, it provides a glimpse into how life is experienced all the time after realization of anatta.

Realizations are just thoughts.
Of course these thoughts might arise in response to experiences and experiences do arise response to thoughts.

Realization might seems true because thinking about it give rise to some mind state so there is illusion of strong correlation.

Nope. I am talking about direct, non-inferential realization.

Specifically I am talking about a realization that is similar to MCTB 4th path.

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/3/20 12:31 PM as a reply to Ben Sulsky.
Fair enough, thanks for the reply.
I'm  not to familiar with the sub aspects of the insight stages so I'm gonna look into that.

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/5/20 3:21 AM as a reply to An Eternal Now.
"no mind" is your name so I won't argue too much about what it points to as it can mean multiple mind states depending on what "mind" means and what "no" means.

8th jhana is not unconscious state. It suggest in its name that there is no perception of mind but processing is still being done and this noise can be experienced. What it lacks are perceptions to which you then are supposed to react. Any processing that just happen do happen normally and you can experience senses and do complex cognition without doing anything. So it should also fit "no mind" and seems to fit criteria of MCTB 4th path.

However it requires you to be able to sustain 8th jhana in normal waking state when living your life which is apparently not so easy to accomplish. If you do then senses are just noise and object recognition is also just noise, as are all chain of thoughts. Interresting thing about this is that senses become much sharper and larger and cognition much much faster and able do go much deeper and wider.

When at work when I am working on something and find myself out of 8th jhana it would seem I need to analyze problem and come up with solution. If I just enter 8th jhana I would just meditate on this processing noise and type solution, much faster than I would come up with it should I use mind to come up with it. Lower jhanas also work but are less efficient.

Also, I am distinguishing "no mind" experience from realization of anatta. However, it provides a glimpse into how life is experienced all the time after realization of anatta.

Anatta literally means that if you perceive something then it is not *you*.
It doesn't point to any mind state and doesn't even tell you that there is no *you* because it does not deal with your existence at all.
However... by merely actually following what anatta says will lead you to a certain rather highly refined mind state so in a sense you can kinda have "realization of anatta" mind state.

An Eternal Now:
Nope. I am talking about direct, non-inferential realization.

Other meaning of word "realization" is realization of goal.
Usually it could be used in this way because usually people are being told some mind state exists and being able to have this mind state is then their goal.

I personally value inferential purely thought based realizations more because the more knowledge you have the more means of directly fixing whatever is not working correctly.

Specifically I am talking about a realization that is similar to MCTB 4th path.
Daniel is accomplished mediator who can do all jhanas and as such it is improbable he would miss their obvious use cases. Same with anyone else who also can do everything.

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/5/20 4:22 AM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
emoticon

Daniel is accomplished mediator who can do all jhanas and as such it is improbable he would miss their obvious use cases. Same with anyone else who also can do everything.

Are you fucking kidding me, Ni Nurta?

I actually almost have to assume you are kidding here, this is so abyssmally asinine. It is very close to satanic self-inflation, if not already there.

I think you actually do think you are one of those who can "do everything." Except help anyone on earth. You are a piss poor excuse for an omnipotent being. And I don't know why you've chosen this thread to squat down and dump so much of your highly Accomplished omnipotence-fantasy shit, which stinks worse than anyone else's. I think it is the odor of narcissistic megalomaniac heedless and even unconscious, unaware cruelty that does that.

You do Daniel Ingram a disservice, and insult him, by citing him as an example of your spiritual degeneracy. Stand on your own two corrupted feet of clay.

love, tim



RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/5/20 7:32 AM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
Ni Nurta:

Anatta literally means that if you perceive something then it is not *you*.
It doesn't point to any mind state and doesn't even tell you that there is no *you* because it does not deal with your existence at all.
However... by merely actually following what anatta says will lead you to a certain rather highly refined mind state so in a sense you can kinda have "realization of anatta" mind state.



The 'mind state' post the realization of anatta has these characteristics Daniel listed:

http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2018/03/daniel-ingram-on-what-is-awakening-and.html


“Since the topic has come up so often and been so bandied about so many times by so many people, let me state here what I mean by 4th path, regardless of what anyone else means by it. It has the following qualities:

1) Utter centerlessness: no watcher, no sense of a watcher, no subtle watcher, no possibility of a watcher. This is immediately obvious just as color is to a man with good eyesight as the old saying goes. Thus, anything and everything simply and obviously manifest just where they are. No phenomena observe any others and never did or could.

2) Utter agencylessness: meaning no agency, no sense of doing, no sense of doer, no sense that there could be any agent or doer, no way to find anything that seems to be in control at all. Whatever effort or intent or anything like that that arises does so naturally, causally, inevitably, as it always actually did. This is immediately obvious, though not always the forefront of attention.

3) No cycles change or stages or states or anything else like that do anything to this direct comprehension of simple truths at all.

4) There is no deepening in it to do. The understanding stands on its own and holds up over cycles, moods, years, etc and doesn't change at all. I have nothing to add to my initial assessment of it from 9 years ago.

5) There is nothing subtle about it: anything and everything that arises exhibits these same qualities directly, clearly. When I was third path, particularly late in it, those things that didn't exhibit these qualities were exceedingly subtle, and trying to find the gaps in the thing was exceedingly difficult and took years and many cycles. I had periods from weeks to months where it felt done and then some subtle exception would show up and I would realize I was wrong yet again, so this is natural and understandable, and if someone claims 4th as I define it here and later says they got it wrong, have sympathy for them, as this territory is not easy and can easily fool people, as it did me many, many times over about 5 years or so. However, 4th, as I term it, ended that and 9 years later that same thing holds, which is a very long time in this business.

There are other aspects that may be of value to discuss at some other time, but those are a great place to start for those who wish to claim this. If you truly have those, then perhaps we can talk about a few other points that are less central and essential.

Now, how there can still be affect (though quite modified in many ways) when there is centerlessness and agencylessness, this is a mystery to the AF kids and to me as well, and that brings me to my next point: there seems to be areas of development depending on what you look for and aim for that may arise independently, and not everything seems to come as a package necessarily. Those things are what I looked for really hard for about 7 years, and that is what I found. Now I find that the interest in the unraveling of what drives that residual affect is arising, and so that investigation happens on its own also."

- Daniel Ingram

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/5/20 9:16 AM as a reply to An Eternal Now.
I can mark all these checkboxes too.
For about five and half years when my last path moment happened and my default mind state shifted to 8th jhana with most of the parts which are not required for anything useful stay in 9th jhana (cessation) until perhaps they are needed. I also occasionally move parts of mind to other jhanas eg. I like to make processing of vision experience 2nd jhana as it is quite pleasant mind state and it makes colors super virbant and pleasant and generally everything appear as it is dissolving into everything else emoticon

I would however not say In seeing, always only seen, in hearing always only sound and in thinking, always only thoughts.
I would instead say: In seeing, hearing, thinking, etc. only noise of neurons chirping.
It was also true before and only difference was that in the past there was too much noise so even more noise was necessary to overpower it. When mind quietens then it can operate in relative silence and do it much more efficiently.

Edit://
Affect is imho when parts of brain get agitated and go out of jhana and start generating too much noise. Reacting to it in any way would require even more noise making whole mind more noisy. Thus reacting to it should be avoided. Usual jhana inducing methods can be used there to make affected parts of mind quiet again or even simpler method would be switching whole part of nervous system that processes this part of mind to some other part of nervous system that is not agitated.

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/5/20 9:22 AM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
For about five and half years when my last path moment happened and my default mind state shifted to 8th jhana...

Can you describe your experience of the 8th jhana for us? I find it an unstable, weird state, not amenable to anything much at all. I think that's why it's called "neither perception nor non-perception." My experience, and the experience of everyone I know who has access to it, says that it's not stable, not really all that useful. So I find it interesting that you have managed to stabilize in it and are able to use it as a useful "walking around" state. From the DhO Wiki, and Daniel Ingram:

This state is largely incomprehensible, but it is absolutely not emptiness. It is empty, but this is not the attainment of that understanding. The eighth jhana may very easily be confused as being emptiness, especially if it is attained through insight practices (remember that insight practices can simultaneously cultivate concentration and wisdom). There is no reasonable way to attempt to describe this state, save for that it is a mind state, and thus is not emptiness, as emptiness is not a mind state or anything else for that matter. I am tempted to say that one is simultaneously focused so narrowly that one notices nothing and yet so broadly that one doesn’t notice even that, but such a description doesn’t quite do this state justice. One way or the other, there is complete inattention to diversity. The eighth jhana is the highest of the ordinary states of concentration that can be attained, ignoring the attainment of the cessation of perception and feeling and a few other attainments mentioned there. (See the Appendix.)

It is not possible to investigate this state, as it is too incomprehensible. Thus, as this state ends, the meditator may return to lower states or turn to insight practice in the afterglow of this state. It should also be noted that, in contrast to the previous seven jhanas, the issue of “hard” or “soft” jhana that relates to how solidly one is in a state does not apply to the eighth jhana. You are either in it or you are not.

The eighth jhana may have a certain stability that nothingness doesn’t due to the inability to make sense of it. Thus, the mind may move fairly quickly from boundless consciousness, through nothingness, and drop into the eighth jhana for a while, though the vaguest hint of attention to anything specific demolishes this state instantly. It is also possible to sort of drift up and down through the various formless realms, and shifting back down to lower jhanas after being up in higher jhanas such as this one can lend a great deal of intensity to them. There are some higher jhanas that can be attained by beings with moderate to high levels of realization, and I will discuss these in the Appendix, but for the moment and for most people, the listing of the eight jhanas is a good working model.

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/5/20 4:13 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
Can you describe your experience of the 8th jhana for us? I find it an unstable, weird state, not amenable to anything much at all. I think that's why it's called "neither perception nor non-perception." My experience, and the experience of everyone I know who has access to it, says that it's not stable, not really all that useful. So I find it interesting that you have managed to stabilize in it and are able to use it as a useful "walking around" state.
There are two ways to use eyes to see:
1. You move and focus eyes on object you want to see, then when you see something you focus on the formed image and do its recognition kinda yourself.
2. Eyes move itself, focus their acomodation itself, do recognition itself.
My state is like the second way. When I changed how my eyes work I kinda had two processes and at first not very well synchronized, one which did itself and second which took generated perceptions, at first not even recognition which didn't really work that well but raw images generated of what I saw, also not very well rendered at first, and then did everything more or less in usual way with my mind. Extending this to whole mind by replacing normal focus and mind by this autonomous process which lack focus and lack normal mind did the trick and now there is no difference how my eyes feel and how everything else feels.

The thing about this second way of seeing is that it feel like jhanic bliss. At times my normal mind interrupted this process and it would break jhana that happened there eg. when I was focusing at generated image, or parts of it, then this would interrupt it. Solution to this was to not use any such focus at all and with it gone the need for normal mind which used perceptions to know things.

When my last path moment happened it wasn't even that everything stopped at once but my consciousness detached from normal mind and started to feel just like my eyes already did and my mind appeared like some sort of loud noise that was happening there. It soon died down like a candle which is starved of its fuel. It can be still used because getting to any mind state from 8th jhana is incredibly easy. It is best not to use this mind thing too much though as all the noise from it obstructs clarity.

So that is the gist of it.
Maybe people who cannot sustain 8th jhana as their base state despite mastery of this jhana need to investigate how their senses work because there might be still subtle need for normal focus and mind. When senses need mind then they will break 8th instantly when used. I just tested using it in my sight moment ago and now I feel kinda woozy because wave of activation instantly happened in my brain.

And how it all feels like?
Pretty much like staring at night sky. Stars flicker and things happen.
It is also a lot easier to make one group of stars flicker out and another group to flicker in to replace it hence my "mish-mash of semi-scientific jargon" that I tend to produce to describe how our minds actually work and how to deal with issues.

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/6/20 7:25 AM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
Ni Nurta, may you be healthy, happy, and loved by others.

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/6/20 9:59 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris, my experience matches yours.  It's hard for me to imagine anyone walking around in the 8th jhana, so I suspect there's some misunderstanding about concepts.

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/6/20 12:10 PM as a reply to Ben Sulsky.
Ben Sulsky:
Chris, my experience matches yours.  It's hard for me to imagine anyone walking around in the 8th jhana, so I suspect there's some misunderstanding about concepts.
If anything I like to call it 8th jhana based mind state rather than "walking around in the 8th jhana".
It is like background of mind changes its jhanas, one step at a time just like it happens during Samatha practice.

When mind background is at 1st jhana then it will be default way how everything is in mind. Jhanic pleasure will be experienced from senses, thoughts, etc. It doesn't necessarily mean they all always do fall on 1st jhana but mostly yes as it will be default and nothing will be needed to do for it to happen.
When mind moves to 2nd jhana then even at this early point it should not be inconceivable that it can eventually go to 8th jhana and even beyond...

The eighth is the Immovable, the youthful stage,
Through nonconceptuality he is immovable;
And the spheres of his body, speech and mind's
Activities are inconceivable.

Surprise surprise, at 8th jhana everything is immovable because everything is experienced as an activity somewhere and acivity is best spread so that each new sensations is processed elsewhere and not re-use parts of brain. Having activation more spread out is also useful as it can be used to construct more detailed image of what these sensations are supposed to represent. It is something someone who experiences perceptions would not be able to perceive clearly and even if it is possible to do something to their brain activity it is generally like throwing darts with closed eyes. You are more likely to poke someones eye than hit 10. On the other hand someone who experience everything as brain activity would easily be able to perceive it and make any part of the brain feel any way they want and make perception of nothing moving anymore. It is also obvious that once this is seen it cannot be unseen.

Even if someone get to this stage and doesn't know what they are looking at and doesn't even look for it then just by the way this mind state is experienced he/she will do the same actions and get to the same results. By general rule however it is more likely to find something when you find it rather than merely walking around and stubling on it by chance in which case it might not even occur to that person to describe it properly.

But yeah, everything that I am saying is supposed to be inconceivable by definition so...

RE: Something dramatic happened and now everything's different.
Answer
7/6/20 1:05 PM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
... it is more likely to find something when you find it... 

Truer words were never spoken!