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Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/1/20 6:30 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Papa Che Dusko 7/2/20 3:00 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tim Farrington 7/2/20 7:38 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/2/20 11:32 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/2/20 12:22 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tim Farrington 7/2/20 2:39 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/2/20 3:53 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tim Farrington 7/3/20 3:48 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/3/20 10:12 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tim Farrington 7/4/20 3:01 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/6/20 7:14 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Billy Bishop 7/6/20 11:25 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/6/20 11:46 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tim Farrington 7/7/20 10:41 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/7/20 11:17 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tim Farrington 7/7/20 11:27 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/7/20 11:32 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tim Farrington 7/7/20 11:37 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/7/20 11:45 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/7/20 11:55 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tim Farrington 7/7/20 12:22 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/7/20 1:21 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Billy Bishop 7/7/20 2:35 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tim Farrington 7/7/20 2:42 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Billy Bishop 7/7/20 3:22 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/7/20 3:22 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Billy Bishop 7/7/20 3:26 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tim Farrington 7/8/20 9:52 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/8/20 11:07 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tim Farrington 7/8/20 11:23 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/8/20 6:10 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tim Farrington 7/10/20 10:39 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tim Farrington 7/8/20 9:41 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tom Smith 7/9/20 10:11 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/9/20 11:59 AM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tom Smith 7/9/20 12:03 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tom Smith 7/9/20 12:05 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/9/20 12:08 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? Tom Smith 7/9/20 4:37 PM
RE: Dark night or mental illness? es pro 7/9/20 8:53 PM
Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/1/20 6:30 PM
Hi there, I already posted but still looking for answers (because I'm still dissatisfied with myself) well I've been in a spiritual awakening for a few years. Moved thru all the chakras, heart exploding into more and more equanimity, more aligned. Until.. March. Some kundalini full body terror arose and I did not witness it, I pushed it away, gradually losing the balance of my mind. Fast forward a month and my heart felt totally empty and I felt totally stuck in fear.
Since then things have worsened. All the neuroses are coming up to the surface - heightened awareness of my psyche- but with no equanimity. Even the way I breathe - I'm just constantly self aware of every little thing. The sound of my voice, everything, there's just an inner critic watching the whole show.
since then I've been obsessed with feeling love again- how could it so quickly vanish.i also made the mistake of googling "false ascension matrix" which describes a trap seekers can fall into where you're stuck in the darkness. Nothing works to open my heart. I know love comes when you least expect it, but I can't bare how my sense of self, joy, gratitude, compassion and motivation are all lost.
i want love and equanimity but that may be the last thing you could ever "get".ive been thru dark night before, never thinking I'd see the light, though not this bad- I did end up finding things to make me happy, and my sense of self was way more intact. The dark night when my heart spontaneously opened in an intimate encounter. So I guess knowing this I can't help but obsess.
its gotten to the point that I pray love and my sense of self sneaks into my heart overnight- the only time my ego is not working so hard.

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/2/20 3:00 AM as a reply to es pro.
"Even the way I breathe - I'm just constantly self aware of every little thing. The sound of my voice, everything, there's just an inner critic watching the whole show."

This is great news my friend! Im being serious! I have replied to your other post. I did have a feeling your mind maybe lost in the Hell Realm but now I see you CAN SENSE the body sensations, feelings and mind states emoticon This is really good stuff and makes meditation much easier.
Becasue if you cant sense the body you can really do Vipassana (full stop). Since you can sense all this you are certainly in dark night but you are good to go. All you need is proper tool for your practice. I wrote about it in your other thread.

May you be well and may you practice well!

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/2/20 7:38 AM as a reply to es pro.
es pro:
Hi there, I already posted but still looking for answers (because I'm still dissatisfied with myself) well I've been in a spiritual awakening for a few years. Moved thru all the chakras, heart exploding into more and more equanimity, more aligned. Until.. March. Some kundalini full body terror arose and I did not witness it, I pushed it away, gradually losing the balance of my mind. Fast forward a month and my heart felt totally empty and I felt totally stuck in fear.
Since then things have worsened. All the neuroses are coming up to the surface - heightened awareness of my psyche- but with no equanimity. Even the way I breathe - I'm just constantly self aware of every little thing. The sound of my voice, everything, there's just an inner critic watching the whole show.
since then I've been obsessed with feeling love again- how could it so quickly vanish.i also made the mistake of googling "false ascension matrix" which describes a trap seekers can fall into where you're stuck in the darkness. Nothing works to open my heart. I know love comes when you least expect it, but I can't bare how my sense of self, joy, gratitude, compassion and motivation are all lost.
i want love and equanimity but that may be the last thing you could ever "get".ive been thru dark night before, never thinking I'd see the light, though not this bad- I did end up finding things to make me happy, and my sense of self was way more intact. The dark night when my heart spontaneously opened in an intimate encounter. So I guess knowing this I can't help but obsess.
its gotten to the point that I pray love and my sense of self sneaks into my heart overnight- the only time my ego is not working so hard.

dear es pro,

my heart goes out to you, honestly, no matter how you label this phase, i can relate to the suffering you are going through.

i would say first that "dark night or mental illness" is a false dichotomy. What i think you are going through is "dark night" (and an unromantic one, at that; no choice now bt to win ugly, style points are out the window) and it is a deep activation of various mental "illnesses" (horrifying reactive patterns, to your heightened self-awareness and self-observation) that were "solved" in previous contexts by a quick and dirty jerry-rig fix and are now coming up to demand a cleaner, truer solution. The jerry-rigs are failing. This is a good thing. Any carpenter would tell you it is easier to build from scratch than to remodel some ancient strructure. This is the old place falling apart as the bulldozers begin.

It's ugly, dusty. noisy. It's chaotic, or feels so, for the most part to any part of you that would have liked a prettier solution. But it is very, very effective. Just let the deep workers work. This is not the time to fuck with them, their union will kick your ass and stop working. Just trust that crew, beyond your control.

where is Shargrol Of Course when we need him? St. Shargrol, help us.

Hang in there, my friend. In my tradition, we pray for people, and souls. I am praying for you.

love, tim

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/2/20 11:32 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim, I like what I hear, but I really don't feel like there is good work being done. Only mess- only psyche shattering, awareness, loss of heart. Every day that goes on, I feel more crazy, more neurotic, more longing for an imaginary past, more miserable, less balanced. Every moment my mind says "there is a proble to solve, you are miserable, open your heart etc etc". And this COULD very well end in a mystical revelation, however I am sabotaging every chance love and equanimity has to enter, by looking for it and grasping for it. When my cat comes to cuddle with me even, I think "this is it, an opportunity to open up" even during my sleep- "this is it, may my heart open while I sleep"

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/2/20 12:22 PM as a reply to es pro.
Furthermore it feels like I am strengthening craving and aversion...each time the fear comes, it becomes more unbearable, and my Mind longs even more for the past, for love, for pleasure. Every moment is just a longing for something else. People keep urging me to stay in the present moment. But how am I supposed to accept a loss of sense of self, a loss of compassion and joy, extreme social withdrawal, a loss of passion in anything, zombie like, when just 4 months ago I knew a life of vibrancy, love, joy, connection, freedom. And I feel no progress or growth at all, if not it's the opposite, like my consciousness and awareness is collapsing.
i am delusional but I wish the mind were like going to a doctor- where you could just request the state of consciousness you long for- love and equanimity - and receive it.
anyway thanks for the kind words. I'm still gonna ask every night when I go to bed if I can wake up illuminates. Haha

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/2/20 2:39 PM as a reply to es pro.
es pro:
Furthermore it feels like I am strengthening craving and aversion...each time the fear comes, it becomes more unbearable, and my Mind longs even more for the past, for love, for pleasure. Every moment is just a longing for something else. People keep urging me to stay in the present moment. But how am I supposed to accept a loss of sense of self, a loss of compassion and joy, extreme social withdrawal, a loss of passion in anything, zombie like, when just 4 months ago I knew a life of vibrancy, love, joy, connection, freedom. And I feel no progress or growth at all, if not it's the opposite, like my consciousness and awareness is collapsing.
i am delusional but I wish the mind were like going to a doctor- where you could just request the state of consciousness you long for- love and equanimity - and receive it.
anyway thanks for the kind words. I'm still gonna ask every night when I go to bed if I can wake up illuminates. Haha

es,

hell yes you want this shit to end well. what idiot wouldn't, or couldn't want that?

but it's out of your hands. It's grief: shit that worked done died. Image that inspired done died. Thoughts, upliftment, soul fucking plan, dead, dead, dead. It's grief, and after denial, anger, negotiation (which you are conducting furiously, no offense, keep at it until you're sure it's useless, or until it works), is the depression you should be terrified of. and after the fire, a still small vice. fuck illumination, it's a pain in the fucking ass, you can't get any sleep in the glare of it.

love, tim

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/2/20 3:53 PM as a reply to es pro.
yeah..... okay.... what do you mean the negotiation? trying to pick it apart on forums etc?

i just feel like my mind is breaking down....spinning so fast i cannot observe it..... and accidentally dissolved all my sense of self as though on mushrooms. its a dark night yes dark as hell but i dont see how it could ever end if there is mental damage

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/3/20 3:48 AM as a reply to es pro.
es pro:
yeah..... okay.... what do you mean the negotiation? trying to pick it apart on forums etc?

i just feel like my mind is breaking down....spinning so fast i cannot observe it..... and accidentally dissolved all my sense of self as though on mushrooms. its a dark night yes dark as hell but i dont see how it could ever end if there is mental damage

es, yeah. 

you see, you are not actually, clinically, "mentally ill" any more than any other relatively socialized human being in our socieities. This process has led you to a very rare degree of self-awareness of what's going on in you, and simultaneously, now, the energy is sufficiently UNblocked for it to activate things you have dealt with half-ass and pragmatic your whole life. This is called normality. You are fucked, for normality. There is no going back.

But you are not going insane. I AM insane, literally clinically certifiably psychotic, bipolar PTSD guy in a three month mania as we speak. It is a miracle of hard-won learning of straight protocol, discipline, and pure luck that i am not in the hospital for the fifth time.

I am also a long time student of John of the Cross, since i discovered him (in a Kasmir Shaivite Muktananda ashram, ironically enough, in 1982-4) in my first "identified: "dark night." The whole thing was mingled in what seemed hopeless fashion at that time with depression, my go-to adaptation to normality (people likie me so much better when I'm depressed, and love me when i'm barely functional).

At this point in my life, i can tell you that this phase is as distinct and horrific and terrifying as anyone can express, and it is recurrent until you surrender to whatever your own tradition's equivalent of faith is. I think Shagrol is the guy for you to talk to, es, honestly. I think Ni Nurta is full of shit, for the record. PM shargrol and ask for help. Or call daniel ingram. This is serious fucking shit, this is probably one of the most crucial and dangerous points you will come to in your practice. That you are hanging in with your practice during this speaks volumes for you; you've got the stuff. But it is letting go of the stuff that is the thing here, and that is not in your hands, it is the paradox of willed surrender that is the key out. It is acceptance of this. and this. and this.

love, tim

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/3/20 10:12 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Thanks Tim! You are a dope dude 
ya I just read an Osho thing and he talked about how if you simply observe your mind this is one path to freedom. Forgetting about love etc. I get it a lil more now...good luck with your mania, take care of yourself..

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/4/20 3:01 AM as a reply to es pro.
emoticon

hey es pro,

i was praying for Shargrol Of Course to weigh in here, but this is pretty good compilation of his approach to this stuff, assembled by the wonderful Pepe. It is pretty well categorized for easier reference to specific questions, but shargrol is like whiskey even on non-specifics, a very good general cure for whatever hurts, lol. and no hangover!

https://shargrolpostscompilation.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html#transitiontoeq

love, tim

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/6/20 7:14 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Thanks! I read some , looks like good stuff.
as for letting go. You are right it isn't in my hands. I swear every nanosecond there is a judging thought. Barely any room for light to penetrate in. And I've spent the last 3 months grasping for love and equanimity. So if these meds are actually going to help long term and prevent "fragmentation and dissociation" or at least prevent my paranoia about it, I have a shot at letting go of these patterns, but it'll take forever maybe. Like I was eye gazing with a friend today and the whole time thinking about the aha moment and thinking about how I was thinking about the aha moment. It seems like my ego has only strengthened in this darkness.
i was reflecting and in the first dark night my ego was much more relenting. For example had therapy sessions where I'd burst into tears and feel some of me come back. And being able to have an intimate encounter without looking AT ALL for any kinda spiritual experience. But now...I'm looking every left and right cuz I'm so desperate to get back to myself , cuz I spent months feeding this

can you tell me about ur experiences with ego death ?
also in response to an above post I CANT really sense my body's sensations, only very very gross ones :| due to accidental ego death or dissociation or both

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/6/20 11:25 PM as a reply to es pro.
I've been thinking about your posts and praying for you. You sound like you are in a world of hurt and I'm just some guy on the internet. Further, I'm Catholic and not Buddhist. Still, no denying this is an amazing board. 

I was thinking about sending along some notes I made in my diary, but thought better of it. Then you said the magic word: neurosis. With your permission, here's what I wrote on Jan 20. 
  • "Neurosis is a substitute for legitimate suffering." -Carl Jung
  • How does this relate to the 4 virtues of Fortitude, Justice, Prudence, Temperance?
  • Catholic moral theology and western civ teach the struggle. This mindfulness approach seemingly does not. Maybe it is about adopting the right struggle? If our feelings can't be changed, don't change them. 
  • "If you paid attention, you'd be worried too!" -Randy Newman, "It's a Jungle Out There"
In response to your other thread, I would encourage you to pray. However, prayer is not a strategy. You can pray for the virtue of Hope, as only God can give it to you. It sounds like you could use some. 

I hope you either smiled at some part of that or that I was so wrong you found some new insight onto which to hold. 

My mother and grandmother liked to say, "This too shall pass." It's sort of Buddhist, no?  I'll keep praying for you.

Best,
Billy

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/6/20 11:46 PM as a reply to Billy Bishop.
Aw thanks Billy .... so prayer is not a strategy.... hm. Ok 
I guess ultimately I am praying for my ability to let go of my mind a bit ..... and yes I have no hope haha

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/7/20 10:41 AM as a reply to es pro.
es pro:
Aw thanks Billy .... so prayer is not a strategy.... hm. Ok 
I guess ultimately I am praying for my ability to let go of my mind a bit ..... and yes I have no hope haha

es pro,

I'm with Billy all the way that "prayer is not a strategy." Anne Lamott says somewhwre that there are only two prayers, "Help, please," and "thank you." I would put in a speechless crushed moan. Prayer is surrender to a mercy that seems unimaginable, in a reality that seems too harsh to bear; it is a state of mind and a condition of being, something you simply grow in, and into, in the cloud of unknowing, with the faith beyond words a quiet flame in the heart (as John of the Cross puts it) and the knowledge of your own helplessness and nothingness before the source and end of your prayer burned into your nerve endings: "the fear of God" that, in the Judeo-Christian tradition, is the beginning of wisdom, is the knowledge of what it's like without God. The fear of Godlessness, then, really, and the terror of ever finding yourself in that condition again. The dark night from this angle is not a punishment by God for sin, but a reckoning, with God, with our own human nature. A hell, a fire, not of wrath, but of mercy, as some old monk said.

love, tim

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/7/20 11:17 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
I like the way you write..
I have been in this bottom for months and have not grown into it, at all, only grasping for love and pushing away all the negatives. And now since a few days I've been grasping for awakening. I can't fathom that I don't have control over this. I can't surrender. I can barely cry anymore cuz I've seized too much control over that. My mind has control over every little moment and I'm terrified it will keep me trapped forever 
no wonder my ego won't surrender, to do so would mean total ego death I think :s
you mentioned you thought I was on my way into nothingness. Definitely nothing in the sense of self worth and meaning, but opposite of nothing in terms of mental activity and ego, creating more and more self each day, HOW can I do this

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/7/20 11:27 AM as a reply to es pro.
es pro:
I like the way you write..
I have been in this bottom for months and have not grown into it, at all, only grasping for love and pushing away all the negatives. And now since a few days I've been grasping for awakening. I can't fathom that I don't have control over this. I can't surrender. I can barely cry anymore cuz I've seized too much control over that. My mind has control over every little moment and I'm terrified it will keep me trapped forever 
no wonder my ego won't surrender, to do so would mean total ego death I think :s
you mentioned you thought I was on my way into nothingness. Definitely nothing in the sense of self worth and meaning, but opposite of nothing in terms of mental activity and ego, creating more and more self each day, HOW can I do this

hey es pro, my brother,

friend, shargrol is the guy on this stuff, with his gentle sane approach and manner. but beyond a certain point, being beyond help actually means being beyond any fucking help. You can't help trying to figure out a way out of this horror. There is no pay-off imaginable that can justify this view of existence, and you fucking well know it. Nothing holds up, it's the three characteristics in all their ruthless glory: impermanence of every fucking thing, especially every good thing; dukha in every thing you see or know or touch or feel, the death's head smilling in the child or the rose; and no-self, and certainly no self worth shit, no self you even could care to save any more, the self exposed for the helpless fraud it always was, like one of those kids with the toy steering wheels you see set up in cars sometimes, pretending to guide the vehicle and having no effect whatsoever, with the added humilation that we actually did think we were driving the damned thing all that time. Now it just rolls on without us, and how it is still on the road at all is a mystery. Apparently we're not even going to go out off a cliff with an elegant plunge and a blaze of flame at the end, or even a satisfying crash: not with a bang, but a whimper, as T.S. Eliot said, of the way the world ends.

You're burning hot as hell right now. That's the cooking temperature, my friend. You'll know when you're done to a T, because you really won't give a shit by then what "done" even means.

love, tim

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/7/20 11:32 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim, I'm pretty sure I'm already cooked...and yes I feel beyond help. I feel it's up to me
i mean in the past my therapist helped me a TON to hold space for me to let go of a lot of shit. But again.....my ego is holding on tight every . Single . Moment.

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/7/20 11:37 AM as a reply to es pro.
es pro:
Tim, I'm pretty sure I'm already cooked...and yes I feel beyond help. I feel it's up to me
i mean in the past my therapist helped me a TON to hold space for me to let go of a lot of shit. But again.....my ego is holding on tight every . Single . Moment.


es, you can't coach this, or guide this. it IS up to you, at the same time that it is completely out of your hands and beyond any effect of your effort, which you must inevitably continue to apply until there is a mysterious exhaustion of your cunning strengths. The ego can't do anything but hold on as tight as possible right now, it's a death grip, because it is the ego's death that is happening, and the ego's life that it thinks it is holding on to. Once it has choked the life out of that life with this grip, you find that there is nothing, holding nothing. So vaya con dios, and hang on tight for as long as you can.

love, tim

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/7/20 11:45 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
I am concerned I WILL be able to hold on forever, I am very clever. Also ok I don't know if you believe in AI mental implants but I am worried about those as well. (Read too much new age stuff)
but ya it makes sense that this is out of my hands and at the same time fully up to me. This sucks
is this how the hell realms work? Haha
people hang on for eons until they exhaust whatever it is ?
its such a simple truth that living in the present moment with awareness brings peace....I hope this turns out to be true 

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/7/20 11:55 AM as a reply to es pro.
Oh and I am a girl ahha emoticon 

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/7/20 12:22 PM as a reply to es pro.
es pro:
Oh and I am a girl ahha emoticon 


oops. forget everything i said. talk to Steph S or Linda, aka, "Polly Ester." I don't know shit about girls, uh, bro.

love, tim

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/7/20 1:21 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Haha it's probably all the same no? Craving aversion letting go love....but thanks emoticon

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/7/20 2:35 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim,

I could quibble about excluding contemplative prayer. I'm only writing to say that was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen on the Internet. 

Best,
Billy

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/7/20 2:42 PM as a reply to Billy Bishop.
Billy Bishop:
Tim,

I could quibble about excluding contemplative prayer. I'm only writing to say that was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen on the Internet. 

Best,
Billy
billy, lol, the speechless crushed moan IS contemplative prayer!

It does get quiet eventually, though.

love, tim

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/7/20 3:22 PM as a reply to Billy Bishop.
Es,
Another reason I'm here is the occasional post on things Hermetic. 

On the one hand, there is a map of sorts in the Tarot. You've had you shattering experience of the Tower (XVI) You're in the hopelessness of the Star (XVII)  And you are also experiencing the fear of the Moon (XVIII). 

Traditonally, we see in the Moon card a crawfish cowering in a pool, ahead of it are wolves and walls ahead and a crazy celestial display in the sky. In the past, it was thought the crawfish moved backwards. The pool that it is in is small. There's no way to go but forward. But it seemingly can't. 

John Opsaupas' Pythagorean Tarot takes a clue from Scorpio's rulership of the card and makes the crawfish into scorpion. That's a scary thing. They have superpowers. They are darn near invisible. Owing to their ability to squeeze through tiny cracks, they can walk through walls. That's not even to discuss the stinger in the tail. It's the wolves that should be afraid. 

After the challenge of the Moon is met, there is a place of grace, the Sun (XIX). As a somewhat sardonic joke, I think of it as Hell's high rent district. You take some time to get ready for Judgement (XX), which in my experience is quick. Then, you get to live your new life (World - XXI). 

I can't help thinking you're not ready. Allow me to be the Lurker on the Threshold. You should complete your hopelessness before taking the challenge of moving forward (assuming you should move forward at all!). Living through 2 of these archetypal struggles at the same time seems like a terrible burden. 

This also assumes this Tarot map applies to you. 

I hope you come back. If you do not want that, remember that it is wolves that should be afraid. 

Keep praying. As I understand Buddhism, you can ask for help. In that spirit if not in that precise way, can I recommend St Igantius? He was a soldier before he started his road to sainthood. He's someone you can depend on when you are in a foxhole. 

I must admit a partiality to Manjusri and the wrathful protector Mahakala. 

I listen to a radio show where the host cites the Waterboy's song "The Whole of the Moon" as a song that always makes people feel good. I'll leave you with a few lyrics. 

With a torch in your pocket
And the wind at your heels
You climbed on the ladder

And you know how it feels
To get too high
Too far
Too soon
You saw the whole of the moon

Unicorns and cannonballs
Palaces and piers
Trumpets, towers, and tenements
Wide oceans full of tears

Flags, rags, ferry boats
Scimitars and scarves
Every precious dream and vision
Underneath the stars

Yes, you climbed on the ladder
With the wind in your sails
You came like a comet
Blazing your trail
Too high
Too far
Too soon
You saw the whole of the moon

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/7/20 3:22 PM as a reply to Billy Bishop.
Thanks for this message! I have four planets in Scorpio so definitely feeling that dark power. 
when I was more "soul-aligned" my intuition was for good, seeing patterns in people and helping them. But now it is suspicion. Seeing darkness in people and being suspicious of their motives and mistrustful. It sucks.

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/7/20 3:26 PM as a reply to es pro.
I've only got the 2 planets and the Ascendant in Scorpio. emoticon

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/8/20 9:41 AM as a reply to Billy Bishop.
Billy Bishop:
Es,
Another reason I'm here is the occasional post on things Hermetic. 

On the one hand, there is a map of sorts in the Tarot. You've had you shattering experience of the Tower (XVI) You're in the hopelessness of the Star (XVII)  And you are also experiencing the fear of the Moon (XVIII). 

Traditonally, we see in the Moon card a crawfish cowering in a pool, ahead of it are wolves and walls ahead and a crazy celestial display in the sky. In the past, it was thought the crawfish moved backwards. The pool that it is in is small. There's no way to go but forward. But it seemingly can't. 

John Opsaupas' Pythagorean Tarot takes a clue from Scorpio's rulership of the card and makes the crawfish into scorpion. That's a scary thing. They have superpowers. They are darn near invisible. Owing to their ability to squeeze through tiny cracks, they can walk through walls. That's not even to discuss the stinger in the tail. It's the wolves that should be afraid. 

After the challenge of the Moon is met, there is a place of grace, the Sun (XIX). As a somewhat sardonic joke, I think of it as Hell's high rent district. You take some time to get ready for Judgement (XX), which in my experience is quick. Then, you get to live your new life (World - XXI). 

I can't help thinking you're not ready. Allow me to be the Lurker on the Threshold. You should complete your hopelessness before taking the challenge of moving forward (assuming you should move forward at all!). Living through 2 of these archetypal struggles at the same time seems like a terrible burden. 

This also assumes this Tarot map applies to you. 

I hope you come back. If you do not want that, remember that it is wolves that should be afraid. 

Keep praying. As I understand Buddhism, you can ask for help. In that spirit if not in that precise way, can I recommend St Igantius? He was a soldier before he started his road to sainthood. He's someone you can depend on when you are in a foxhole. 

I must admit a partiality to Manjusri and the wrathful protector Mahakala. 

I listen to a radio show where the host cites the Waterboy's song "The Whole of the Moon" as a song that always makes people feel good. I'll leave you with a few lyrics. 

With a torch in your pocket
And the wind at your heels
You climbed on the ladder

And you know how it feels
To get too high
Too far
Too soon
You saw the whole of the moon

Unicorns and cannonballs
Palaces and piers
Trumpets, towers, and tenements
Wide oceans full of tears

Flags, rags, ferry boats
Scimitars and scarves
Every precious dream and vision
Underneath the stars

Yes, you climbed on the ladder
With the wind in your sails
You came like a comet
Blazing your trail
Too high
Too far
Too soon
You saw the whole of the moon

billy, here the song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBW8Vnp8BzU

i have a scorpio moon, for what it's worth.

love, tim

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/8/20 9:52 AM as a reply to es pro.
es pro:
Thanks for this message! I have four planets in Scorpio so definitely feeling that dark power. 
when I was more "soul-aligned" my intuition was for good, seeing patterns in people and helping them. But now it is suspicion. Seeing darkness in people and being suspicious of their motives and mistrustful. It sucks.

es, you've got all the tools, but you're seeing the shit side right now, and need to leave them on the rack. there is a deeper process at work in you, showing you both the horror you are capable of with your power, and the fact that to perpetrate such horror is something you would rather die than do. So you do nothing right now, rather than horror, for the same old compulsive barely-conscius or unconscious "reasons." That shit is burning off every time you hold your mud right now, every time you keep the burning to yourself and don't leak the leak into your environment, every time you don't project the evil you are seeing everywhere onto loved ones or friends or strangers. Own that shit, that's the lesson: own that shit. That shit is not all of you, by a long fucking shot, but there it is, it's in the mix. hard on the self-image, but better a realistic self-image that sort of sucks and is humble than denial of this shit and it finding its usual devious way of poisoning every good thing you try to do.

love, tim

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/8/20 11:07 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Are you saying TO project onto others? This is where the lack of ego structure is affecting me- there isn't that sense of pride protecting me, so I just continually beat myself up until it grows and grows

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/8/20 11:23 AM as a reply to es pro.
es pro:
Are you saying TO project onto others? This is where the lack of ego structure is affecting me- there isn't that sense of pride protecting me, so I just continually beat myself up until it grows and grows

lol, no, hell no. I'm saying that projection onto others is one of the great dangers of this phase you're in. With the shit at the forefront, the path of least resistance is to blame our near and dear, or the world, or some other Other, for all this shit. The real work right nor for you, whatever battered ego structure is your given right now, your state of the art, is to accept the shit, without blame or flight or denial. This shit is your shit, in a limited sense, and in the larger sense it is the world's shit in you; but from either angle, here it is, learn to accept it, don't do a damn thing with it right now, no improvements, no projects, no clean-up campaigns. This shit has always been present, and you've been given the energy and the eyes to see it, with painful self-awareness. Just see it clearly, and it will drain of its charge as you do. In time, it will just be, and you'll be as free of it as you are of you shattered notions of an ego structure that could ossiblym protect you. You've got plenty of ego, to lose the thing, lol. Don't worry about that.

love, tim

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/8/20 6:10 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Ok I mean I feel like I've been with this for 3 months and it's only strengthening but ok.....ok
you inspire me to let go of the concepts I have- of fragmentation, soul loss, dissociation etc. Although it does concern me to lose touch with my body cuz otherwise how can we practice . Haha
and ya I am really fucked...I spend most waking moments waiting for this to end or waiting for a rapture

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/9/20 10:11 AM as a reply to es pro.
What can you tell us about your social situation?  I think this is very important and we don't often talk about it here.  Most monks did not meditate in isolation.  They were part of a rich web of social relationships.  In America today we all tend to be much more isolated.

Are you married or in a relationship?  Do you have children?  Parents or siblings you are close to?  Are you a member of a spiritual community, support group or 12 step program or anything like that?  Do you have a friend or friends that you talk to regularly?

I'm asking this because when I was going through a very bad time, similar to what you describe, I was pretty isolated.

COVID is creating even more isolation than what we normally experience in the USA.

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/9/20 11:59 AM as a reply to Tom Smith.
I am very much not isolated, I live with parents, have a therapist, and see friends almost every day. However I am mentally and spiritually incredibly isolated

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/9/20 12:03 PM as a reply to es pro.
Are there dharma groups in your area?  Communicating on line is great, but it is not the same as real face to face contact with other practitioners.

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/9/20 12:05 PM as a reply to Tom Smith.
How old are you?  If we were face to face that wouldn't even come up, but on line like this you can't tell.  You could be 14 or 90 and we could only guess without looking at you or asking.

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/9/20 12:08 PM as a reply to Tom Smith.
Not in person at the moment, I met up with one dharma teacher a few days ago though. I am 26

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/9/20 4:37 PM as a reply to es pro.
Are you working or in school?  What kind of job or what are you studying?

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/9/20 8:53 PM as a reply to Tom Smith.
I am doing nothing :/ I intend to get a part time job I guess 

RE: Dark night or mental illness?
Answer
7/10/20 10:39 AM as a reply to es pro.
es pro:
Ok I mean I feel like I've been with this for 3 months and it's only strengthening but ok.....ok
you inspire me to let go of the concepts I have- of fragmentation, soul loss, dissociation etc. Although it does concern me to lose touch with my body cuz otherwise how can we practice . Haha
and ya I am really fucked...I spend most waking moments waiting for this to end or waiting for a rapture

tim_farrington@msn.com, if you like. That, or a rapture.