Phenomenology of doer falling away

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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 1 Year ago.

Phenomenology of doer falling away

Posts: 5754 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Now and then I see people ask about the phenomenology of the doer falling away, or no self/not self. Descriptions of the phenomenology of the last steps of awakening are rare to come by. Here is an interview with Adyashanti and Susanne Marie that covers that territory. Especially Susanne Marie has interesting things to say. She really goes into the phenomenology of the development. 

https://youtu.be/DMYE6yNV4MM
Olivier, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: Phenomenology of doer falling away

Posts: 733 Join Date: 4/27/19 Recent Posts
"A good map that's simple enough to understand can be useful just to say hey, you're not going crazy here. I think that's what spiritual teachers are for."

Yes !

Unrelated question : why use the term phenomenology instead of "description" ?
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: Phenomenology of doer falling away

Posts: 5754 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Olivier:

Unrelated question : why use the term phenomenology instead of "description" ?


Because it is more precise. What I'm interested in is the subjective experience of going through the developments of later paths as they occur. Descriptions tend to be more "von oben" - theoretical and retrospective and not very hands-on. 
Olivier, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: Phenomenology of doer falling away

Posts: 733 Join Date: 4/27/19 Recent Posts
I find their answers to the interviewer's questions at around 51 min pretty unsatisfactory ! They seem to be a bit panicked by those pretty simple questions. 

I don't know, there is something about that quietness and diaphaneity which strikes me as fake. (sorry ! just my feeling emoticon)
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: Phenomenology of doer falling away

Posts: 5754 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Olivier:
I find their answers to the interviewer's questions at around 51 min pretty unsatisfactory ! They seem to be a bit panicked by those pretty simple questions. 

I don't know, there is something about that quietness and diaphaneity which strikes me as fake. (sorry ! just my feeling emoticon)

Where? What questions? I can't find it. It seems to me like that they have lots to say there. I can't find the quietness, and I don't understand what you mean with diaphaneity. From my frame of reference, that would be a good thing.
Olivier, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: Phenomenology of doer falling away

Posts: 733 Join Date: 4/27/19 Recent Posts
Ok.

I don't remember the exact question, the one about there being three individual consciousnesses in the room and not just one big no self, or something like that, which they answer around 51-52 min. She says she had "never thought about that" because what matters is "being here now".

I don't know, i feel in particular that the woman is very much playing a role for some reason. They're all breathing so quietly you know, and just feel so much like they're "not really there" or something. So no self. I just wanted to buy one of those courses you know. emoticon

But anyways. They're saying nice things !
Tim Farrington, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: Phenomenology of doer falling away

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Olivier:
I find their answers to the interviewer's questions at around 51 min pretty unsatisfactory ! They seem to be a bit panicked by those pretty simple questions. 

I don't know, there is something about that quietness and diaphaneity which strikes me as fake. (sorry ! just my feeling emoticon)

Where? What questions? I can't find it. It seems to me like that they have lots to say there. I can't find the quietness, and I don't understand what you mean with diaphaneity. From my frame of reference, that would be a good thing.

Quietness and diaphaneity is as good as it gets, Olivier! Even if you just fake it!

But i'm feeling a little panicked myself, thinking about this.

love, tim
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mrdust, modified 1 Year ago.

RE: Phenomenology of doer falling away

Posts: 44 Join Date: 7/17/19 Recent Posts
I came across this as well recently and found it interesting. The single / multiple consciousness question felt excessively theoretical to me, but then I'm more interested in pragmatics than philosophy. To me the interviewees handled it satisfactorily.

Hearing this got me listening to Adya's The End of Your World again and I'm getting some value out of it that wasn't there earlier in my practice. He touches on this general area a good bit. I also have his No Self course queued up, but haven't heard enough to recommend. There's an interesting commentary on it here (pdf).

For another detailed take on No Self check out Christian contemplative Bernadette Roberts, she's written several books on the subject.
Interview with Roberts (good intro),  Path to No Self (3 hour DVD on youtube), Experience of No Self (book summary)

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