can’t it just chill out?

Gregor, modified 8 Months ago.

can’t it just chill out?

Posts: 77 Join Date: 1/12/20 Recent Posts
Thanks for reading -Since February I cannot sit in formal meditation anymore. I practice for 20 minutes a day, everything seems to go well for a bit and then without any signs I reach the point of no return and everything gets dark and I just wish I'd never have started with this path. When I started going through the PoI my mind was fine and although it was unpleasant I was able to navigate through it with practice. Back then I could sit in meditation for hours, I did several retreats and all in all meditation wasn't a problem. In February, a Kundalini experience messed me up for two months but ever since it feels like I damaged my body and my mind. Weird physical symptoms seem to be the norm for me nowaday's, I either start heating up to 1000 degrees celsius for no reason or it feels like my skull cracks open with excruciating pain. Fine, I can deal with that. Meditation is something I enjoy, the attainment driven attitude has subsided long ago and I just do it because I like it. Over the past two to three months I've given up on the idea of ever getting enlightened - life sucks anyways. What helped me dealing with the downsides so far was working out, spending time w. my girlfriend and really enjoying sensual pleasure - ego development doesn't work anymore. The PoI is still running in the background, not giving a sh*t about me at all. Either I'm contracted and suicidal thoughts pop up for a while (no worries that doesn't bother me), or everything is super wide but unpleasant. Over the past few weeks a gradual letting go has occured, I stopped trying to make sense out of experience - trying to say "this Nana is casuing that etc." I gave up on everything. Since more than a week now I'm experiencing energetic heart contractions - I'm not joking when I say that it feels like I'm getting a heart attack. Accompanied with that is sever fatigue and nausea. My heart is beating at a resting heart rate of 80-100bpm (it's physical healthy - I got it checked). Fine, I can accept all of this but now it feels like I'm going mad on top of this. I can't do exercise, I cannot meditate - the only thing I enjoy atm is drawing, I don't imagine living life like this. There's a general digust and hatred towards what this thing is all about. The fact that I cannot meditate let's me somehow hold on to the notion that it won't get better ever. -I just wanted to share this, being a good example of how this entire thing can go wrong.
Martin, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: can’t it just chill out?

Posts: 294 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
I hope it goes better soon.
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Jim Smith, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: can’t it just chill out?

Posts: 962 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
It's hard to make a diagnosis over the internet and I don't know if you tried this yet but I have a suggestion.

Try meditating just by notcing your breath, try to be as neutral in your attitude and emotions and expectations as possible, not pushing anything or forcing anything into the background or into the foreground. But try to notice if you have an "attitude" that is extra that you don't realy need to to have. If you can have a neutral attitude without suppressing anything that is good.

There are forms of meditation that produce intense bliss, but sometimes people without realizing it stumble on to a similar method that produces unpelasant emotions.

Don't try to concentrate intensely just gently notice your breath in and out. If your natural breathing is relaxed, you can breath that way if you want or you can choose whatever way of breathing feels most relaxing. If your're not sure where to focus your attention, focusing on the air going in and out through your nose is okay. If you feel short of breath or your heart rate goes up you can try exhaling slowly through pursed lips.

If you feel better that way, you can then try vipassana but go back to just breathing if you feel uncomfortable.

If you find meditating this way elevates your mood, don't try to produce that mood, stick with neutral meditation and let the mood come by itself.
Gregor, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: can’t it just chill out?

Posts: 77 Join Date: 1/12/20 Recent Posts
Hey Jim, 

thanks a lot for your advice, it's really appreciated!

-Gregor 
agnostic, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: can’t it just chill out?

Posts: 1643 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Hey Gregor, 

Good to hear from you! Sorry to hear that everything sucks and you are suffering. A lot of us have been through this stuff over time but it looks like you got hit by a truckload of it all at once. It could be the flipside of those powerful awakening experiences you were going through earlier in the year. Even if you hate it, it sounds like you are very aware of what you are going through and that it is part of the path. Since you are so aware, I would say at this point that anything you do could be considered practice so you don't need to force yourself to meditate. If all you feel like doing is drawing then that's your practice. Once you've ruled out any obvious medical issues then it's most likely your system rewiring itself and you need to be kind to yourself and let your body figure out what it needs.

Best wishes
George
Gregor, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: can’t it just chill out?

Posts: 77 Join Date: 1/12/20 Recent Posts
agnostic:
Hey Gregor, 

Good to hear from you! Sorry to hear that everything sucks and you are suffering. A lot of us have been through this stuff over time but it looks like you got hit by a truckload of it all at once. It could be the flipside of those powerful awakening experiences you were going through earlier in the year. Even if you hate it, it sounds like you are very aware of what you are going through and that it is part of the path. Since you are so aware, I would say at this point that anything you do could be considered practice so you don't need to force yourself to meditate. If all you feel like doing is drawing then that's your practice. Once you've ruled out any obvious medical issues then it's most likely your system rewiring itself and you need to be kind to yourself and let your body figure out what it needs.

Best wishes
George

Hey Agnostic, 

I really appreciate your input, thanks for caring! Your words are always very welcome and helpful. 

Thanks a lot! 

-Gregor 
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David Matte, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: can’t it just chill out?

Posts: 75 Join Date: 8/3/19 Recent Posts
Hi.
It was nice to read your account of the difficulties you're experiencing with meditation. You sound like a classic dark night yogi. 

I would second Jim's recommendation to back off on the investigation/vipassana and focus solely on samatha/tranquility meditation for the time being. Additionally, try to sprinkle in a heart-oriented practice like metta. That should help counteract the hatred, disgust, apathy, and all the other negative thoughts you're having. 
n0nick, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: can’t it just chill out?

Posts: 17 Join Date: 6/12/20 Recent Posts
Hey man,

I am going through the same thing and the symptoms are even more dramatic and painful for me.(bones getting bigger teeth restructering for months and a whole lot of stuff). What has helped me is study in depth about the process and put this experience Into context and know that it's a phase and it will pass. It may take months to even dacades for some. This phase is the physical and subtle body purging phase so all repressed emotions and trauma will come out. Having a gentle hatha yoga or chi gong practice helps. Concentration or devotional practices should help too. Good luck through this. 
Gregor, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: can’t it just chill out?

Posts: 77 Join Date: 1/12/20 Recent Posts
n0nick:
Hey man,

I am going through the same thing and the symptoms are even more dramatic and painful for me.(bones getting bigger teeth restructering for months and a whole lot of stuff). What has helped me is study in depth about the process and put this experience Into context and know that it's a phase and it will pass. It may take months to even dacades for some. This phase is the physical and subtle body purging phase so all repressed emotions and trauma will come out. Having a gentle hatha yoga or chi gong practice helps. Concentration or devotional practices should help too. Good luck through this. 


Hey n0nick,

I'm so sorry for you that you have to suffer as well! Thank you for your encouraging words!

-Gregor 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: can’t it just chill out?

Posts: 5375 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
I'm so sorry you are going through such a harsh Kundalini awakening. I'm very familiar with it, as I have gone through the same. In my case I wasn't doing any meditation. It just happened anyway, as the universe got tired of waiting for me. It can chill out, but in my experience that doesn't happen until you chill out. You need to take away lots of stress in your life and give space for this process to unfold on its own. You need to listen inwardly, to what it is communicating to you. Physical exercises that increase the pulse will have to go for the time being, as they only make things worse; I learned that the hard way. Since you are contracting so much, I'd suggest yin yoga that works very slowly with the fascia. Just be careful to balance all sides of it - if some of the streching exercises seem impossible, make sure to find some other versions that dothe same job and do some extra of those (I learned that the hard way too). Apart from that, very gentle outdoor swimming might work. I could barely take walks, so be very careful with physical strain. I would lose my voice for a week from walking up one staircase slowly. Other forms of gentle yoga might work, but don't push it (and especially do NOT do heavy breathing exercises - hatha yoga is more stabilizing). I do lots of yoga now, several different kinds, and that works very well for me. It has taken away the fatigue and made me healthy. However, I don't know if it would have worked earlier in the process. Meditation was what eventually took me to the other side of my extreme situation, into a good place, but I don't know if that would have worked earlier either. I don't think there is anywhere to go apart from through this process. In retrospect, for me, it was worth it. Very much so. But before I found the way through it, it really sucked. 

In my case, I had to change my diet drastically, as I developed extreme intolerances that doctors could not make sense of. Keeping a food and health diary might be a good idea. 

Lots of rest is needed. Get to learn your boundaries and make sure to respect them and communicate them to people around you, with safety margins. The same goes for your needs. It is very possible that you don't even know them, as that is usually what makes Kundalini react strongly: not living the life you are supposed to live. I changed my life very drastically going through this process, and it gradually made me so much happier. The more authentic I became, the better I felt. Find out what is authentic for you! 

You might want to check out Patanjali's Kundalini Vidya. I didn't know about it until my issues were already solved, so I don't know how helpful it is, but it seems to offer a gentle way forward that I believe works much better than just trying to reverse the process. 
Gregor, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: can’t it just chill out?

Posts: 77 Join Date: 1/12/20 Recent Posts
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
I'm so sorry you are going through such a harsh Kundalini awakening. I'm very familiar with it, as I have gone through the same. In my case I wasn't doing any meditation. It just happened anyway, as the universe got tired of waiting for me. It can chill out, but in my experience that doesn't happen until you chill out. You need to take away lots of stress in your life and give space for this process to unfold on its own. You need to listen inwardly, to what it is communicating to you. Physical exercises that increase the pulse will have to go for the time being, as they only make things worse; I learned that the hard way. Since you are contracting so much, I'd suggest yin yoga that works very slowly with the fascia. Just be careful to balance all sides of it - if some of the streching exercises seem impossible, make sure to find some other versions that dothe same job and do some extra of those (I learned that the hard way too). Apart from that, very gentle outdoor swimming might work. I could barely take walks, so be very careful with physical strain. I would lose my voice for a week from walking up one staircase slowly. Other forms of gentle yoga might work, but don't push it (and especially do NOT do heavy breathing exercises - hatha yoga is more stabilizing). I do lots of yoga now, several different kinds, and that works very well for me. It has taken away the fatigue and made me healthy. However, I don't know if it would have worked earlier in the process. Meditation was what eventually took me to the other side of my extreme situation, into a good place, but I don't know if that would have worked earlier either. I don't think there is anywhere to go apart from through this process. In retrospect, for me, it was worth it. Very much so. But before I found the way through it, it really sucked. 

In my case, I had to change my diet drastically, as I developed extreme intolerances that doctors could not make sense of. Keeping a food and health diary might be a good idea. 

Lots of rest is needed. Get to learn your boundaries and make sure to respect them and communicate them to people around you, with safety margins. The same goes for your needs. It is very possible that you don't even know them, as that is usually what makes Kundalini react strongly: not living the life you are supposed to live. I changed my life very drastically going through this process, and it gradually made me so much happier. The more authentic I became, the better I felt. Find out what is authentic for you! 

You might want to check out Patanjali's Kundalini Vidya. I didn't know about it until my issues were already solved, so I don't know how helpful it is, but it seems to offer a gentle way forward that I believe works much better than just trying to reverse the process. 


Hey Linda, 

thank you so much for caring and for your thoughtful reply. It's the third time I'm reading your comment now and it makes acceptance much easier - thanl you! I'll definetely look into your recommendation. It seems like I have to look into other traditions as well, Buddhism doesn't really bother too much about the topic, so it's time to look into Hinduism and Yoga as well. I'm also sorry to hear that you had/have troubles with Kundalini as well. 
Thank you so much, Linda! 

-Gregor
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: can’t it just chill out?

Posts: 5375 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
You are very welcome. 

There are parts of Buddhism that do work with the energy system, such as the Tibetan Bön tradition (which has older roots than Buddhism as taught by Gautama but has now melded with it). There are great similarities between those practices and Kundalini Vidya but also differences. All those systems are pragmatic models to work with, just like Newton's Physics. They are reliable enough for practical purposes, but none of them is any ultimate truth.

If you do look into traditions that work with energy, be very careful! Working with the more invasive parts without competent guidance might be risky, especially for someone who has your symptoms already. Here in Sweden there are many Kundalini yoga teachers that are unfamiliar with the Kundalini process. Beware of that kind of teacher! They tend to push energies, and of course you really don't need that. Certificates from some guru is no garantee, unfortunately. The energetic process is delicate and should not be messed with to push things. A good teacher teaches you to do the opposite. Some of the advice (the non-invasive part) is easy to apply on one's own, such as the advice I gave you. I found that out by myself, but I'm now reading a book that provides those very recommendations: Kundalini Vidya: The Science of Spiritual Transformation by Joan Shivarpita Harrigan. The author does teachings within the Patanjali system. She's a lineage holder. If I were going through the rough part of the process now, I think I would try to contact her. 

The Kundalini is in itself the best teacher you could ever have, if the communication is clear enough. I have learned lately that it is possible to ask it to communicate in a language that you can understand before it has to scream. This sounds very woo woo, I know, but one way of looking at it might be that it is your subconscious processing that does the communication because it notices other things than your conscious processing. I happen to believe in some kind of collective subconscious, but I really don't know how any of it works. I just know that for some strange reason it can actually work if one opens up to the possibility. Kundalini (which is basically a name for the awakening process) is a rigorous teacher that will not allow* you to ignore your highest good. That can be a very good thing. However, you do need to accept that your narrower conscious individual mind construction is not in charge anymore. It never really was, but it tends to be of the habit to think so, and that tends to distract you from what you really need. 

*) Of course it is always possible to ignore its screaming, but for people like you and me, that hurt likes hell. I think it might be because we deep down have a strong urge to find a very specific path. We just don't what it is, at a conscious level, until we find it. On a more intuitive level we do know the way. Or the way itself knows the way. It reveals itself if we learn how to listen. 
Brandon Whited, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: can’t it just chill out?

Posts: 55 Join Date: 6/8/20 Recent Posts
I hope to go through some form of what you're going through soon. Either pleasent or unpleasent. Kundalini or whatever.

Good luck dude
Tim Farrington, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: can’t it just chill out?

Posts: 2460 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Gregor:
Thanks for reading -Since February I cannot sit in formal meditation anymore. I practice for 20 minutes a day, everything seems to go well for a bit and then without any signs I reach the point of no return and everything gets dark and I just wish I'd never have started with this path. When I started going through the PoI my mind was fine and although it was unpleasant I was able to navigate through it with practice. Back then I could sit in meditation for hours, I did several retreats and all in all meditation wasn't a problem. In February, a Kundalini experience messed me up for two months but ever since it feels like I damaged my body and my mind. Weird physical symptoms seem to be the norm for me nowaday's, I either start heating up to 1000 degrees celsius for no reason or it feels like my skull cracks open with excruciating pain. Fine, I can deal with that. Meditation is something I enjoy, the attainment driven attitude has subsided long ago and I just do it because I like it. Over the past two to three months I've given up on the idea of ever getting enlightened - life sucks anyways. What helped me dealing with the downsides so far was working out, spending time w. my girlfriend and really enjoying sensual pleasure - ego development doesn't work anymore. The PoI is still running in the background, not giving a sh*t about me at all. Either I'm contracted and suicidal thoughts pop up for a while (no worries that doesn't bother me), or everything is super wide but unpleasant. Over the past few weeks a gradual letting go has occured, I stopped trying to make sense out of experience - trying to say "this Nana is casuing that etc." I gave up on everything. Since more than a week now I'm experiencing energetic heart contractions - I'm not joking when I say that it feels like I'm getting a heart attack. Accompanied with that is sever fatigue and nausea. My heart is beating at a resting heart rate of 80-100bpm (it's physical healthy - I got it checked). 

Ahh, Gregor, it's so good to hear from you (even though you're miserable as fuck, lol). There are some people very seasoned with kundalini experience giving you good advice already here. I would emphasize stability in your living situation, any point of ritual regularity you can find. That's one reason to cling to whatever formal meditation you can, even if it is a matter of minutes per day: that possibly symbolic bit of "effort," even "useless" effort, satisfies something in the psyche, and, for me at least, gives me a kind of Sisyphean "satisfaction": pushing the pointless rock up the hill, without any real progress. A cheerful image, but it seems like you are there already in the country of "this shit is pointless, and possily making things worse."


Fine, I can accept all of this but now it feels like I'm going mad on top of this. I can't do exercise, I cannot meditate - the only thing I enjoy atm is drawing, I don't imagine living life like this. There's a general digust and hatred towards what this thing is all about. The fact that I cannot meditate let's me somehow hold on to the notion that it won't get better ever. -I just wanted to share this, being a good example of how this entire thing can go wrong.

maybe you are going mad, but i'm inclined to think it is a madness that comes with this territory. Your body and mind have been energized beyond all reason and control, and your condition feels like it is deteriorating to you--- what's to love about a highly energized, painful, overwhelming catastrophe? The drawing is a good sign, just having one point of contact with embodied life that isn't total shit can get you through a lot. Ditto for the girlfriend, if you can hold your mud and if she is able to give you space without getting freaked out herself.

But yeah, this shit's not worth it. Unfortunately, there's no going back. The path goes through this shit now and here it is. Hang tough, be easy on yourself, and kind to your girlfriend, and ride that kundalini dragon home. Your entire system is learning a different way of energetic being, and the renovation process is hell. 
Over the past two to three months I've given up on the idea of ever getting enlightened - life sucks anyways. 
amen, lol. Hang in there, my friend.

love, tim
Gregor, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: can’t it just chill out?

Posts: 77 Join Date: 1/12/20 Recent Posts
Ahh Tim, 

I missed you! So good to have you here my friend! Thanks so much for your input!emoticon 

-Gregor
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 8 Months ago.

RE: can’t it just chill out?

Posts: 5375 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
I've got to say that this thread was very helpful to me, as it reminded me of what I really need to do, as a contrast to what I think I need to do. I believe Kundalini is pointing out to me that I'm using the energy freed up by the path so far in the wrong way, allowing distractions to steal the energy that is meant for the spiritual path. I have been getting so many signals about that, but I guess I needed to hear it from myself. I tend to think that I know best, lol. Now that I have said to you what I have learned about this, I can't deny its renewed relevance for myself. So thankyou! I was able to let go of lots of stuff today. I will probably screw it up again soon, but if I keep getting back to simplicity over and over again, maybe it will eventually come more naturally to me.