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Magick and The Powers

Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis?

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Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Foo 9/20/20 5:56 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Jim Smith 9/20/20 7:26 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Foo 9/20/20 10:11 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Oatmilk 9/21/20 4:57 AM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Jim Smith 9/21/20 8:20 AM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Ni Nurta 9/21/20 5:20 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Jim Smith 9/21/20 7:48 AM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Jim Smith 9/23/20 3:09 AM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Zachary 9/21/20 10:28 AM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Noah D 9/22/20 11:04 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Jim Smith 9/23/20 3:36 AM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Brian 9/23/20 12:24 AM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Jim Smith 9/23/20 3:40 AM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Eric G 9/24/20 9:12 AM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? An Eternal Now 9/24/20 9:14 AM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Siavash 9/24/20 3:10 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Noah D 9/25/20 1:34 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Zachary 9/27/20 11:23 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? T DC 9/28/20 1:28 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Ni Nurta 9/28/20 2:51 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Noah D 9/29/20 1:07 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Noah D 9/29/20 1:11 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Zachary 9/29/20 1:38 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Noah D 9/29/20 8:41 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? svmonk 9/29/20 9:28 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? SushiK 9/29/20 9:55 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Noah D 10/1/20 1:47 AM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Lewis James 9/26/20 12:06 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Noah D 9/27/20 9:48 PM
RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis? Milo 9/28/20 4:17 AM
This is something I've been doing a lot of research on. It's at the point where I know they are real. Not just from my own personal experience, but the scientific research of parapsychologists like Dean Radin; physicists like Russell Targ; and studies published on the CIA's own website. It's extremely convincing. I haven't seen explicit evidence for every single siddhi, but given the fact how many are already proven to be true (including mind-bending ones like telekinesis), I'd argue the Yoga Sutras is at the very least a pretty credible text and should be of serious consideration.

With that said, though, apparently people who actually reach enlightenment typically don't publicly demonstrate such powers because it gets in the way of their pursuit of enlightenment. This is something I personally disagree with, I believe both should be pursued. I imagine there's probably at least some people here who think the same.

What I want to know if there is anyone here who actually knows someone who has mastered at least some of them, or knows someone who has and seen it firsthand. And ideally, if anyone here has done so themselves, maybe even be my informal teacher to give tips along the way. I'm currently following a serious meditation practice using The Mind Illuminated (and probably Daniel Ingram's books afterwards). I've been making good progress and expect to reach TMI stage 10 sometime this year. It would be handy to meet other people who are not only seriously interested in enlightenment, but mastering the siddhis as well.

Foo:
This is something I've been doing a lot of research on. It's at the point where I know they are real. Not just from my own personal experience, but the scientific research of parapsychologists like Dean Radin; physicists like Russell Targ; and studies published on the CIA's own website. It's extremely convincing. I haven't seen explicit evidence for every single siddhi, but given the fact how many are already proven to be true (including mind-bending ones like telekinesis), I'd argue the Yoga Sutras is at the very least a pretty credible text and should be of serious consideration.

With that said, though, apparently people who actually reach enlightenment typically don't publicly demonstrate such powers because it gets in the way of their pursuit of enlightenment. This is something I personally disagree with, I believe both should be pursued. I imagine there's probably at least some people here who think the same.

What I want to know if there is anyone here who actually knows someone who has mastered at least some of them, or knows someone who has and seen it firsthand. And ideally, if anyone here has done so themselves, maybe even be my informal teacher to give tips along the way. I'm currently following a serious meditation practice using The Mind Illuminated (and probably Daniel Ingram's books afterwards). I've been making good progress and expect to reach TMI stage 10 sometime this year. It would be handy to meet other people who are not only seriously interested in enlightenment, but mastering the siddhis as well.

If you are interested in developing the siddhis you should consider looking outside the eastern traditions, there just aren't a lot of teachers. If you believe the siddhis are possible and you've read Targ and Radin then you know there are genuine psychics around. Find one who teaches and learn from them. Spiritualist Churches often have the most affordable classes. New Age book stores and gift shops may have information about classes available in the local area. Unless you are a naturally talented psychic, it is very hard to learn without taking classes. Years of training and practicing the skills are necessary. I never heard of anyone who gained profiency simply by meditating. It involves more than switching on new senses,  sensitivity increases gradually over time and you have to learn how to interpret what you preceive (ie which impressions are symbolic, which are literal, and how to avoid mistaking memories, associations, and inferences from your conscious mind for pychic impressions). As far as I know, you can only learn that through a lot of practice with feedback on your accuracy/effectiveness.

I agree you can pursue Buddhist meditation and psychic devleopment, just like you can pursue meditation and play tennis. But psychic development should only be pursued by people of high moral development and for the purpose of helping others not for selfish or egotistical reasons or for material gain. It should be considered part of spiritual development in the highest sense of the term. It is really a different category than (not a part of)  Buddhist practices (at least the way most people approach Buddhist practices) although meditation is also sometimes thought of as spiritual. 

I'm not sure if this (below) is what you are interested in exactly but I have described some of my experiences on my blog and web site (I haven't "mastered" anything though)

My experiences taking classes on communicating with spirits:
http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/psi_experience

What it is like to communicate with spirits.
http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/10/what-is-it-like-to-communicate-with.html

I haven't set down my experiences doing spiritual healing but I've described the technique here:
https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/spiritual_healing
I took a certification course in healing for which I obtained seven affidavits of healing from people who felt beneficial effects from spiritual healing. It is more than just a psychosomatic effect, when you receive treatment, you can feel the healing force penetrating your body.

The easiest way to start experiencing psychic experiences is to learn how to remember your dreams and keep a dream log and you are likely to find frequent precognitive dreams. There is a book, "An Experiment With Time" by J W Dunne (it's out of copyright so you can download a copy free from the internet) which explains how to do this and says most people will record precognitive dreams.. I tried it and it worked for me.

(One phenomenon don't recommend is trying to have OBEs, in my opinion most of the techniques are more likely to induce lucid dreams than genuine OBE's. Even the authors of the well known books cannot reliably and repeatably obtain verifiable information during their "OBE's")

If you have questions, I don't mind answering, in this thread, by private message through this forum, or at the e-mail address at the bottom of the left hand column on my web site.


Often people who meditate start to have spontaneous psychic experiences, premonitions, "hunches", synchronicities, etc. Have you noticed anything?

RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis?
Answer
9/20/20 10:11 PM as a reply to Jim Smith.
I've naturally been psychically attuned for many years now. Especially in the recent past since I've doing a ton of meditation and psychedelics. It's at the point now where crazy synchronicities happen on a regular basis; my intuitive abilities are highly developed; I often have experiences of precognition; I've remote viewed spontaneously a few times; and my ability to manifest with the law of attraction has increased significantly. In the past I've also once sponatenously experienced telekinesis, which I struggled to believe for years until I realised it's actually real.

Most info I see barely covers this. It might cover things like how to develop your intuition, but I've never seen a complete, pragmatic guide for advanced abilities like telekinesis or levitation, for instance. This is really esoteric and I've found barely any practical information on it. A lot of it is superstituous and dogmatic, too. If these things are real, why is it so hard to find people who can do it? There has to be someone out there, even someone on this forum perhaps who can do it.

Not only that, it's a bit confusing because if you look at the yoga sutras for instance, it basically says these abilities naturally develop merely from attaining a state of intense concentration (IIRC the word used was samadhi). It says once you have this, then you can do other stuff, e.g because you're in a state of nonduality if I looked at you, I'd be able to dissolve the boundaries between us and therefore telepathically communicate. But exactly how to do that, I don't know. I have never found a practical guide that tells you how to do it step-by-step, a lot of it is very wishy washy, which is especially frustrating if you're a more logical/left-brained individual.

As for the moral implications, sure. I already consider myself highly developed in this area and continue to develop, so I'm not worried. Also, one of the main reasons I'm interested is to serve others (not just myself). But I also don't understand why it's a problem if you want to do it for yourself, too. So what if you wanted to manifest money, for instance? The fact is we live in a slavery system and if I can do something like win the lottery, it means I never have to work again and can spend the rest of my time doing what I want (including my serving my purpose, which is to help humanity). Who is to say what is moral and what is not in this regard? It's completely subjective and I think a lot of people confuse morality with their own dogma and beliefs. I'm also not here to justify myself and my intentions, since I already know they are good, I merely want information on how to do it.

Not only that, if you actually did practice black magik I imagine you'd end up accumulating a lot of karma and your abilities would diminish. It would backfire and you'd end up harming yourself. Therefore it's sort of its own feedback loop, you probably can't really develop these abilities naturally unless you're doing a lot of spiritual work (which would raise your consciousness, thus giving you access to them).

Not only that, it's a bit confusing because if you look at the yoga sutras for instance, it basically says these abilities naturally develop merely from attaining a state of intense concentration (IIRC the word used was samadhi). It says once you have this, then you can do other stuff, e.g because you're in a state of nonduality if I looked at you, I'd be able to dissolve the boundaries between us and therefore telepathically communicate. But exactly how to do that, I don't know. I have never found a practical guide that tells you how to do it step-by-step, a lot of it is very wishy washy, which is especially frustrating if you're a more logical/left-brained individual.

You can look into the Visuddhimagga's, especially chapter 4,5,12 and 13 and into the Vimuttimagga, chapter 8 and 11 on how to attain Siddhi's. Stage 10 TMI 'Shamatha' isn't enough concentration for attaining those states. The Tibetan's requirement for Shamatha - which is Access Concentration for the first Jhana is based on 3 hour's of single pointed concentration without subtle distraction's.

I already consider myself highly developed in this area and continue to develop, so I'm not worried. Also, one of the main reasons I'm interested is to serve others (not just myself).

As long as you haven't attained 4th path - or as slong there's still a 'you' doing all those thing's I would be cautious with those statements, since your sense of compassion is still based on the individual. 

But I also don't understand why it's a problem if you want to do it for yourself, too. So what if you wanted to manifest money, for instance? The fact is we live in a slavery system and if I can do something like win the lottery, it means I never have to work again and can spend the rest of my time doing what I want (including my serving my purpose, which is to help humanity). Who is to say what is moral and what is not in this regard? It's completely subjective and I think a lot of people confuse morality with their own dogma and beliefs.

Using spirituality for self improvement is a) spiritual materialism and b) spiritual bypassing. You still need to do much more work in order to understand morality correctly. 

-O

RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis?
Answer
9/21/20 7:48 AM as a reply to Jim Smith.
Jim Smith:

 But psychic development should only be pursued by people of high moral development and for the purpose of helping others not for selfish or egotistical reasons or for material gain. It should be considered part of spiritual development in the highest sense of the term.


Just to clarify, when I wrote the above I was referring to ordinary people.  I was not referring to moral development in the sense that it is developed as part of Buddhist practice.

There are many people who never practed Buddhism or sought enlightenment who feel compassion and like to help others without seeking any personal reward. 

If Buddhist practice helps you to develop morally, that's great, but it isn't a requirement. Personally, one of the reasons I practice meditation is that it helps moral development increasing equanimity, compassion, humility, good-will, etc etc. 

Foo:
 But I also don't understand why it's a problem if you want to do it for yourself, too. So what if you wanted to manifest money, for instance? The fact is we live in a slavery system and if I can do something like win the lottery, it means I never have to work again and can spend the rest of my time doing what I want (including my serving my purpose, which is to help humanity). Who is to say what is moral and what is not in this regard? It's completely subjective and I think a lot of people confuse morality with their own dogma and beliefs. I'm also not here to justify myself and my intentions, since I already know they are good, I merely want information on how to do it.


You mentioned that you have read Targ and Radin.

If you haven't read books written by psychics I recommend doing that also.

That is where you will learn what is really going on. The people who actually experience the phenomenon and live with it all day every day, know and experience things that the scientists don't know about.

Taking classes, learning from a teacher, interacting with other students, is even better than reading about it.

In fact, the scientists would be much better able to study the phenomenon scientifically if they would take the time to develop their own abilities under the guidance of a gifted psychic.

This piece might be relevant to your interests:

https://www.integrateddaniel.info/magick-and-the-brahma-viharas/



I sometimes feel like I can do telepathy but I am rather cautious with that as trying to go too deep too fast is sure way to looney house. I do however practice it, just not very intensely.

Non-duality here is the prerequisite as is good concentration. I also find that having experiences to have really pleasant flavours to be helpful for both whole connection effect and how it will play out. In other words if you yourself do not feel already awesome then do not even attempt to connect to anyone or you will be rejected and even attacked. If however your sensual and internal experiences are very pleasant you will find that people will connect to you and this is definitely the situation you want.

I am however not a siddhi expert and definitely not in telepathy. It is not even what I actively practice. I mostly practice remote synesthesia which is experience of everything I see. A kind of "getting informations from universe about everything I see to experience it more fully". It gives some unexpected results from time to time and definitely improves sensual perception. I am however again rather catious about it. Other related thing to this is feeling matter, like actual elements of the matter, stones, metals, etc. I also practice seeing with closed eyes. I can see stuff in the dark like objects up close and my room when it sets in but I am not entirely sure how real these visions are. So far I treat it as interresting way my brain generates view of my surrounding so I do not need to bother to open eyes at night or when I take a shower. I cannot however eg. walk in my room in the dark and not step on to something. All these things which I see with closed yes have perspectives all over the place so it is even hard to say from which point of space I am really observing it.

In the future I definitely want to learn telekinesis. Somehow I feel that I am missing something. Not sure what but it is like it would require "color" which I do not poseess or do not know which color is needed. It would be definitely helpful to have a teacher and see it being done. Somehow hovever despite my interrest I feel like I am not ready for that just yet so not actively practicing or researching it yet.

tl;dr
something happens, not sure how real it is, still practicing to get clearer view on all of this, rather far away from attaining my perfect form emoticon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RSEXvHURYU

John Chang was a Niegong master living in Java.  Two brothers traveling around there & making a documentary (not looking for spirituality) about it discovered him accidentally.  Ian Baker (in his Guru Viking interview) also talks about meeting John & experiencing his siddhis directly.  Kosta Danoas saw the Ring of Fire docu (where that YouTube clip is from) & sought out tutelage with John & wrote Magus of Java.  I list all of these disparate references to help build the case that the powers in the video, up to & including putting a pencil thru a table & setting the newspaper on fire, are not faked.

This thread makes me despair that people will just meditate and get to the end of suffering. Merely not suffering anymore isn't amazing enough, there's got to be some kind of mind reading or flying or whatever, too.

James Randi has, for decades, been offering large sums of money to anyone to demonstrate anything paranormal under testable conditions, but I guess they stopped with that in 2015. Too bad.

Brian:
This thread makes me despair that people will just meditate and get to the end of suffering. Merely not suffering anymore isn't amazing enough, there's got to be some kind of mind reading or flying or whatever, too.

James Randi has, for decades, been offering large sums of money to anyone to demonstrate anything paranormal under testable conditions, but I guess they stopped with that in 2015. Too bad.

If you are interested in scientific studies that show paranomal powers you can find them here:
http://www.deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm

Randi's challenge was a scam, here's why (references are provided at the link):
http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/05/randis-unwinnable-prize-million-dollar.html
The million dollar prize has not been won because it is simply not a good way to demonstrate paranormal powers. The million dollar challenge requires that the applicant has to beat 1 million to one odds. Setting such a high barrier for success makes sense if you are risking a one million dollar prize. However, 1 million to one odds are much higher than the scientific standard of proof so this challenge is not necessarily the best or fairest way to determine if paranormal abilities are genuine. Designing a test that is fair to both the applicant and the challenger requires sophisticated knowledge of statistics (How many trials would be needed for a psychic to have a 95% confidence level that they could beat million to one odds if their accuracy was 75%?) Most psychics don't have the understanding of statistics necessary to look out for their own interests and therefore most applicants will not be able to demand a protocol that gives them a fair chance of winning. This is the most likely reason no one has won the prize.
Furthermore, most applicants who know about Randi or understand the details of the challenge would be reluctant to spend the time, effort and expense of applying because they would not trust it to be a fair test or have confidence that they would be judged fairly or rewarded fairly if they succeeded.
  • Randi supposedly has said, "I always have an out. (Fate, October 1981)", and "I am a charlatan, a liar, a thief and a fake altogether." (This is reported to have been said on PM Magazine, on July 1st, 1982.) Applicants for the prize have legitimate reasons not to trust Randi. An interview in Will Stoor's book The Heretics quotes Randi in making several deceptive statements.

  • The prize is in bonds but Randi won't say when the bonds mature or who issued the bonds so no one knows what the prize really is. Why won't he say what the prize really is? Applicants are legitimately afraid the prize is some sort of worthless trick.

  • The applicant has to pay for their own travel expenses involved in attempting the prize. Why would they do that when they have good reasons not to trust Randi and they don't know what the prize really is?

  • Randi has a history of making mean spirited statements. He has been forced to retract statements in the past. However, applicants have to sign an agreement not to sue Randi even if he makes makes misleading, defamatory, slanderous, or libelous statements about the psychic.

  • The applicants for Randi's prize have to prove themselves to a very high statistical standard far beyond the level that is generally considered proof in science experiments. An experiment could be designed to satisfy this standard with fewer than ten trials. However, a psychic, depending on their rate of accuracy, might need hundreds of trials to have a fair chance of obtaining such an unlikely result1. Most psychics won't realize this because they don't have the necessary expertise in science or statistics and this may be the primary reason no applicant has ever won the prize. One scientist who did apply for the prize never heard back from Randi.

Why would anyone be willing to spend their time and money to try to win the challenge when they don't trust Randi, or believe that the challenge is fair, or that the prize is real?

The challenge is not really serious. Most applicants who understand the details would be reluctant to spend the time, effort and expense of applying because they would not trust it to be a fair test or have confidence that they would be judged fairly or rewarded fairly if they succeeded. The most likely reason no one has won is because most applicants do not have the expertise in statistics needed to demand a protocol that will give them a fair chance of winning. The prize is a publicity stunt designed to give materialist pseudoskeptics a one liner: "Why has no one won the prize?!?!" The correct answer is: ... Because it is not a good way to measure paranormal powers and anyone who understands the situation would have very good reasons not to apply.

It is sadly ironic that so many of Randi's followers, who pride themselves on their critical thinking skills, are fooled into thinking this prize is a legitimate test of paranormal phenomena. There are many independent forms of empirical evidence for ESP and the afterlife. The entire movement of pseudoskeptics is based on misdirection. Randi's followers believe they are helping to protect people from fraud, but in fact they themselves are victims of many deceptions perpertrated by the leaders of the pseudoskeptic movement. I discuss this in greater detail on my web page on Skeptical Misdirection.

...

1) In an experiment to measure psychic ability, there are three numbers that need to be considered:

- The first number represents the confidence that the outcome is not due to chance. The million dollar challenge requires the psychic perform at a level that would occur by chance only once in a million times.

- The second number is the rate of accuracy of the psychic's abilities. For example, a psychic might have an accuracy of 75% in some task where the probability of being correct by chance is only 50%.

- The third number is the number of trials which are needed to give the psychic a high level of confidence that they would win the prize given their rate of accuracy.

In order to achieve the required confidence that the psychic's performance is not due to chance, the challenge could require two tests of ten or fewer trials. However, the psychic might not be able to pass such a test if they are not 100% accurate. But, if the psychic is given a sufficient number of trials, they may demonstrate a success rate that, while not 100% accurate, still cannot be explained by chance at the level of confidence demanded by the challenge.

In order for the psychic to have a 95% confidence level that they could beat million to one odds if their accuracy was 75%, they might need over 100 trials. Most psychics are not well enough versed in statistics to know how to measure their rate of accuracy or how to calculate the number of trials they need to have a good chance of winning the prize.

Noah D:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RSEXvHURYU

John Chang was a Niegong master living in Java.  Two brothers traveling around there & making a documentary (not looking for spirituality) about it discovered him accidentally.  Ian Baker (in his Guru Viking interview) also talks about meeting John & experiencing his siddhis directly.  Kosta Danoas saw the Ring of Fire docu (where that YouTube clip is from) & sought out tutelage with John & wrote Magus of Java.  I list all of these disparate references to help build the case that the powers in the video, up to & including putting a pencil thru a table & setting the newspaper on fire, are not faked.

That is a very interesting video. It touches on using powers "unwisely" at the end.

I used to experiment with a psi wheel and I would feel shocks (I called them "snaps"). I had no idea what they were. A lot of people assume convection currents can explain the movement but it doesn't explain the shocks. 

I also thought the movement was caused by the same force I used in spiritual healing.

This post on my blog has links to several posts on the subject some include videos (the videos are not presented as proof, they provided to illustrate what I wrote about).
http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/10/science-cannot-explain-why-psi-wheel.html

The videos show the wheel turning inside a jar and also that a jar can be "magnetized" with he force and then used to turn a wheel. There are also instruction on how to make a psi wheel from aluminum foil, a pencil eraser and a sewing needle.

If anyone is interested here is a search that returns all the articles on one page, you can scroll down to find the videos more easily:
http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/search/label/psi%20wheel

RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis?
Answer
9/23/20 3:09 AM as a reply to Jim Smith.
Jim Smith:

The easiest way to start experiencing psychic experiences is to learn how to remember your dreams and keep a dream log and you are likely to find frequent precognitive dreams. There is a book, "An Experiment With Time" by J W Dunne (it's out of copyright so you can download a copy free from the internet) which explains how to do this and says most people will record precognitive dreams.. I tried it and it worked for me.

In my previous post (above) I mention psi wheels. I would add that they are also very easy way to experience something paranormal. I didn't mention it earlier because people ususally dismiss the effect as due to convection currents in the air. But that doesn't explain the shocks  and the video Noah posted showing chi shocks convinced me to discuss it.

RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis?
Answer
9/24/20 9:12 AM as a reply to Jim Smith.

If you are interested in scientific studies that show paranomal powers you can find them here:
http://www.deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm
Regardless of whether siddis exist or not, what Dean Radin has done here is cherry pick a bunch of studies to fit a viewpoint.  Unfortunately, in legitimate scholarship, you simply don't get to do that.  Samples must be as large and random as possible in order for them to have any value as samples.  They must be REPRESENTATIVE.  However these studies are decidedly not random and they are categorically un-representative of the overall body of research into the paranormal, where the norm is very much a failure to demonstrate.  Radin is displaying his own ignorance and biases here, and it saddens me that even many people with Phd's do not understand the basics.  I understand how average people get fooled by such presentations, but Radin should know better.

Foo:
This is something I've been doing a lot of research on. It's at the point where I know they are real. Not just from my own personal experience, but the scientific research of parapsychologists like Dean Radin; physicists like Russell Targ; and studies published on the CIA's own website. It's extremely convincing. I haven't seen explicit evidence for every single siddhi, but given the fact how many are already proven to be true (including mind-bending ones like telekinesis), I'd argue the Yoga Sutras is at the very least a pretty credible text and should be of serious consideration.

With that said, though, apparently people who actually reach enlightenment typically don't publicly demonstrate such powers because it gets in the way of their pursuit of enlightenment. This is something I personally disagree with, I believe both should be pursued. I imagine there's probably at least some people here who think the same.

What I want to know if there is anyone here who actually knows someone who has mastered at least some of them, or knows someone who has and seen it firsthand. And ideally, if anyone here has done so themselves, maybe even be my informal teacher to give tips along the way. I'm currently following a serious meditation practice using The Mind Illuminated (and probably Daniel Ingram's books afterwards). I've been making good progress and expect to reach TMI stage 10 sometime this year. It would be handy to meet other people who are not only seriously interested in enlightenment, but mastering the siddhis as well.



Daniel M. Ingram wrote:

https://www.dharmaoverground.org/.../messa.../message/318001

...As
to crazy-ass experiences, here's a very short list: moving flames
around with my mind with very Ghost-Busters-style energy blasts that
accompanied the force that moved the flame, endless OBE stuff and lucid
dream stuff, some of which was straight off the cushion and back to the
cushion, predicting my wife having a car accident 4 years later
accurately, hearing and seeing all manner of stuff (from British women
chatting in their parlor about the news on the tele to pit preachers on
Sunday morning talking about how the Buddhists in the monastery I was
staying in would all go to Hell, and much, much more), have very
profound and powerfully explanatory past-life experiences, have some
bilocation-type experiences, being able to put my "ghost-hand" through a
wall with all awareness and sensation perception then embodied in that
rather than my usual body, being able to call up beyond-orgasmic bliss
to roll through my body, being able to know to hit the breaks to slow
down before I could possible see the deer about to run out in front of
me on the way driving home, being able to make people do or stop doing
various things (very grey morality territory here), being able to see
and manipulate the energy channels in my body, being able to know who
has called while the phone is ringing sometimes (lots of people can do
that, actually), banishing a demon or two (whatever that means), and the
endless crazy A&P stuff with my body exploding into energy and
fire-works like experiences, bright lights, seeing through closed
eye-lids, shaking, traveling, and many other strange things like that.
There are more subtle magicks: long-range formally-cast intentions to
have certain situations resolve within certain parameters, being able to
feel what the person I was giving a back rub to was feeling and where
the pain was, resolutions to have various jhanic experiences happen or
to get stream entry or whatever, general subtle-energy manipulation in
my body, rooms, situations, interactions, conversations, and even more
subtle things: strange intuitions about how things will go, about what
to do or not do in a certain situation. Even at times the musical things
I write that just show up and seem unbidden seem magickal, but that's
probably not what you were after.

While obviously
this stuff is quite interesting, in the end, as they all say and are
right, it is actually things like finishing the process of insight and
being kind, wise in a relative way, and helpful that make the most
difference in terms of how good your life will be, though those things
can help with that, if used properly and kept in perspective, which for
some, like me, takes seeing them so many times I finally got somewhat
(though not completely) bored by them. In short, if you have some powers
experience, don't quit your day job.

============

also related: https://soundcloud.com/michael-taft-5/dy-008-meditation-magick-and-the-fire-kasina-with-guest-daniel-ingram

RE: Does anyone here personally know anyone who has mastered the siddhis?
Answer
9/24/20 3:10 PM as a reply to An Eternal Now.


This link that you posted for Daniel's post, is broken. I tried to extract the correct link from it:
(Thank for sharing this old post)

https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/318001#_19_message_319167

Another hard-to-deny siddhi is thukdam.  How do these people's bodies stay warm after they are dead?  Richie Davidson is now studying it.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/schools/tibetan-scholar-in-rare-meditative-state-after-death-128361

I've had extremely vivid and convincing experiences of telepathy. After a few instances of this, I decided to "real world" test it. In a couple of sessions, it seemed as though I'd telepathically communicated with teachers and mentors of mine. One of which was Daniel Ingram, another was Janusz Welin. I asked both of them personally during skype calls (about other topics) "hey, did you uhhh, telepathically communicate with me about practice last night", and both of them said "... not to my knowledge?". Make of that what you will.

Still, the spectres of these guys gave some pretty good advice, so I guess my mental representation of them is pretty good (or I just know how to tell myself what I want to hear)

Lol I keep thinking of more siddhis.  I love this topic.

One more impersonal one is phowa.  There are mutliple vidoes & photos on the internet documenting that people create small holes in their skulls thru this practice.  A blade of grass is inserted in the hole to demonstrate this.

I have some personal stories, but I'm not willing to name names.  One teacher I had could emit chi blasts from his hands (with a very small hip rotation) that would create a loud popping sound in the air & send you flying (he would have you hold books to cushion the impact & stand in front of a couch for the fall).  Another teacher I have had has repeatedly & continuously demonstrated telepathy both in individual conversations & in groups, for several years.

Another hard-to-deny siddhi is thukdam.  How do these people's bodies stay warm after they are dead?  Richie Davidson is now studying it.

Nice, seems in a similar vein to the Sokushinbutsu mummification practice (though I don't think the consciousness of the monk is said to remain in the body in Sokushinbutsu. It's got me wondering if these practices of thukdam and living mummification have any additional function beyond their own appeal to the particular monk and serving as a demonstration of the sheer power of these practices.

Some things to consider:

1) It's really easy to fool yourself thanks to confirmation bias and human intuition being generally poor when it comes to probability and false pattern recognition.
2) More realization often = less motivation to develop siddhis.
3) Even if you suceeded with manifesting a siddhi, the results may follow a path of least resistance ending in side effects you may not expect.
4) Lots of siddhis are presented in a way that makes them to some degree empirically untestable (Looking at you chaos magick). Some might say this is highly convenient. Others might say it's simply ironic.

That being said, based on my own experiences I put them into three buckets.

Class 1) The improbable: I've never generated any personal evidence to support very gross violations of physics as science currently understands it (Levitation, duplicating self, teleportation, etc). 

Class 2) The possible: seemingly physically unlikely things I've had multiple very compelling experiences with every time I've engaged with them and so can't deny they are possible. These include things like affecting randomness e.g. in coin flips / random number generators, recalling details of 'past lives,' and affecting the long range course of events. Many of these are subject to #1 and #4 in the considerations list above, but the anecdotes are compelling. Might even be consistent with some known interpretations of physics.

Class 3) The likely: things like reducing physical pain or focusing the mind for better recall and acuity using concentration practices. These don't bend physics or probability as science currently understands them, and they are supported by many personal experiences.

Zach - IMO tukdam is basically a junior version of rainbow body, less a practice and more just a natural consequence of high level realization.

Noah - do you have a source for the holes in the skull re-Phowa?  Sounds pretty bizzare, and I'm not sure of the benefits.. ;)

The siddhis are interesting, but in the idea of "mastering" them might be the wrong way to look at it.  Things like past life memories, telepathy, and assorted visions IME are less things we can willfully do, and more things that just start to happen to us more and more frequently at a certain point in meditative development.  These things often occur totally out of the blue and are not repeatable, less a personal skill than gifts from the other side.  They also often have highly personal relevance for our own specific life journeys and as a result are largely incompatible with verification in any kind of large scale standardized study.

The exception to this is the Qi power Noah mentioned, which is much more controllable and represents less a random psychic phenomena than the high level results of an ongoing process of energetic development.  

Best recommendation is to mostly ignore siddhis. From time to time it fun to try to use them but only from time to time and most of the time ignore them.

What can be developed which is does not make you crazy is sensual perception. Things like developing eyesight are safe and useful in life.

TDC:
Noah - do you have a source for the holes in the skull re-Phowa?  

https://youtu.be/nW7l4_Lgbe4?t=3296
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pvcZE_141E
Sounds pretty bizzare, and I'm not sure of the benefits.. ;)

Phowa has no purpose if one does not accept rebirth.  If one does accept rebirth, the purpose is for liberation (i.e. anagami + bodhicitta, to a given buddhafield for completing the rest of the path) at the moment of death before the full bardo process takes hold.  Specifically one ejects one's continuum of experience physically thru the top of the head, via the hole created during phowa practice in life.

Zachary:
Nice, seems in a similar vein to the Sokushinbutsu mummification practice (though I don't think the consciousness of the monk is said to remain in the body in Sokushinbutsu.

Yes this practice is an interesting Mahayana/sutra parallel to the Vajrayana/tantra practice of thukdam.
It's got me wondering if these practices of thukdam and living mummification have any additional function beyond their own appeal to the particular monk and serving as a demonstration of the sheer power of these practices.

The purpose of thukdam is to create faith in the students of that particular teacher & perhaps anyone who sees or hears of it.  According to Glen Mullin on the Guru Viking podcast, the purpose of manifesting thukdam as opposed to rainbow body is to allow for relics to appear post cremation, which is impossible in the case of rainbow body, as the body dematerializes.  I think this explanation comes from a Gelugpa perspective, though.  I believe Nyingmapas & Bonpos might hold the rainbow body as a higher manifestation than thukdam.  


The purpose of thukdam is to create faith in the students of that particular teacher & perhaps anyone who sees or hears of it.  According to Glen Mullin on the Guru Viking podcast, the purpose of manifesting thukdam as opposed to rainbow body is to allow for relics to appear post cremation, which is impossible in the case of rainbow body, as the body dematerializes.  I think this explanation comes from a Gelugpa perspective, though.  I believe Nyingmapas & Bonpos might hold the rainbow body as a higher manifestation than thukdam.  

Interesting. Now I'm thinking back to reading The Autobiography of Phra Ajaan Lee where Lee recounts several stories during which relics appeared suddenly to him or his students during meditation. Makes me wonder whether there's some thukdam equivalent in the Theravadan tradition. 


Altogether there were about 50 people in the hall. So I made a vow: ‘Today may the power of sacred objects come and help me because there’s a rumor going around, concerning the relics of the Buddha, that I’m tricking and deceiving the people. With news like this, there’s no one I can turn to unless the deva and sacred objects can help me. Otherwise Buddhism is in for derision and contempt.’ At the time, Chao Khun Ariyagunadhara was sitting in front of the major Buddha image. All the other monks had left, because it was so late.

I then had everyone sit in meditation and added, ‘Whoever doesn’t believe, just sit still and watch.’ After a moment or so, I had the feeling that sacred objects had come and were circling all around, so I ordered everyone to open their eyes, and told Nai Prasong. ‘Open your eyes and look at me. I’m going to stand up.’ I then stood up and shook out my robes and sitting cloth for him to see, at the same time thinking, ‘May the devas help me so that he won’t be able to hold our religion in contempt.’ Then I said in a loud voice, ‘Relics of the Buddha have come. People sitting right in front of me will receive them. But when you open your eyes, don’t move a muscle. I myself won’t move.’

As soon as I had finished speaking there was the ping of something small falling on the floor of the hall. A woman got up to pounce on it, but it sprang from her grasp and came near to where I was sitting. Another person came running after it, but I ordered him to stop. Finally the object came to rest in front of the teacher, so I told her, ‘It’s yours. Nai Prasong, watch carefully.’ The teacher picked it up: It was a setting from a ring, very finely done—an object that had once been offered in worship to the Buddha’s relics.

In the end, no fewer than ten people received relics of the Buddha that night. All the people there had their eyes wide open and the place was well lit. Just before daybreak, Nai Phae came to me, clutching in his fist a set of relics that he then gave to me, saying he had received them the night before. I turned them all over to Wat Supat.

Zachary:
Interesting. Now I'm thinking back to reading The Autobiography of Phra Ajaan Lee where Lee recounts several stories during which relics appeared suddenly to him or his students during meditation. Makes me wonder whether there's some thukdam equivalent in the Theravadan tradition. 

Good points.  I had not read that story in a long time.  Relics are not a Tibetan Buddhist or Vajrayana thing, they are definitely found across Buddhism.  I would not be surprised if they were also found in Hinduism or other religions as well.  Thukdam requires control of the energy body, which, while not completely ignored in Theravada & Mahayana, is not discussed systematically & in great detail, as far as I know.

Re. Rainbow bodies, go to Google Images and search for "16th Karmapa rainbow body". One image you will find is shown below. My Mahamudra teacher clued me into this when I told him there as a discussion going on in DhO about rainbow bodies. I told him someone could have Photoshopped the image, but if you look at it, it seems like it would have been hard to Photoshop. He also told me that the picture was taken long before Photoshop was around. I'm not quite sure what to make of it to be frank.



Photographer have been playing tricks with double exposures and superimposed negatives since the invention of photography.

Not saying it is this or that, but changing a picture was possible long before Photoshop.

Oh yeah, that's another good one .  In the BATGAP Lama Tsultrim Allione interview she also describes him imprinting a rock with his thumb.  There's also the story where he allegedly "made it rain" soon after visiting the Hopi people during a particularly bad drought - https://www.beezone.com/steve_roth_karmapa/