“Not sure” Papa’s Log No. ? - Discussion
Not sure how to proceed with my practice. Shargrol suggested to look in the WUTYL book as there could be other practices in there which might resonate well with me. I bought this book because of a discussion over at the Awakened Network but just didn't click with the 6 Realms practice so I gave up on it.
Last night took it out and just opened it up automatically and the page was on 5 Elements and Dakini practice. The Air element was interesting; it's in the throat, always on the move, uncertain, etc ...
Also the meditation on death using the Air element seems rather fitting for me as I do have fear of heights.
Don't know. I always looked down on visualization meditation. It just seems too staged. But then again I remember times when I was a Shamatha meditator laughing at those doing Noting practice.
However I have started to observe the Air element in breathing, feeling air on skin, movements, and I sit 30 minutes before bed time. Noticing of it all takes place but I'm trying to be more aware of the Air element; movement of the mind states, feelings, body sensations, breathing sensations.
I must find time to read that chapter on 5 Elements to wrap my mind around it as it still doesn't make much sense when it comes to that Dakini visualization. I do get the Death meditation and maybe that's what I'm to do as it's crystal clear; fear of heights and me approaching the edge of a sharp cliff ... then falling down ... feeling the feelings, the rushing air, the ground getting closer and closer ... WHAM!!! Dead. Sit with these feelings, sink into them.
Will need to read more in the book but i did try and visualize this in my last nights sit. I could create images of this scenario and it was a tall building (even worse fear, got me heart pumping as I stood at the edge) brrr
scary shit! Do not try this at home kids! This has nothing to do with suicidal tendencies. I'm more of a soldier type person who would rather die in the battle field for a cause.
Anyway, started a new log. Let's see how this goes.
May it be for the benefit of many.
Last night took it out and just opened it up automatically and the page was on 5 Elements and Dakini practice. The Air element was interesting; it's in the throat, always on the move, uncertain, etc ...
Also the meditation on death using the Air element seems rather fitting for me as I do have fear of heights.
Don't know. I always looked down on visualization meditation. It just seems too staged. But then again I remember times when I was a Shamatha meditator laughing at those doing Noting practice.
However I have started to observe the Air element in breathing, feeling air on skin, movements, and I sit 30 minutes before bed time. Noticing of it all takes place but I'm trying to be more aware of the Air element; movement of the mind states, feelings, body sensations, breathing sensations.
I must find time to read that chapter on 5 Elements to wrap my mind around it as it still doesn't make much sense when it comes to that Dakini visualization. I do get the Death meditation and maybe that's what I'm to do as it's crystal clear; fear of heights and me approaching the edge of a sharp cliff ... then falling down ... feeling the feelings, the rushing air, the ground getting closer and closer ... WHAM!!! Dead. Sit with these feelings, sink into them.
Will need to read more in the book but i did try and visualize this in my last nights sit. I could create images of this scenario and it was a tall building (even worse fear, got me heart pumping as I stood at the edge) brrr
scary shit! Do not try this at home kids! This has nothing to do with suicidal tendencies. I'm more of a soldier type person who would rather die in the battle field for a cause. Anyway, started a new log. Let's see how this goes.
May it be for the benefit of many.
Do not try this at home kids! This has nothing to do with suicidal tendencies. I'm more of a soldier type person who would rather die in the battle field for a cause.
Amen. You just need a sense of advancing into the right field of machine fire, and there's no stopping you! The only thing that scares you more than heights right now seems (to this befuddled and clueless observing friend, and for what it's worth) to be, uh, equanimity.
POI stuff can cycle as it will. I think it would be of benefit to work on some other aspects for now. It's a hunch but then again my whole life was so far based on hunches and look where that brought me
Ok let me talk POI a bit;
sensate experience is rather drumming in ears, Mysery (as sadness), bodily heaviness, stiff neck, sore throat, lack of focus (as in center sharpness is lacking). Also irritated by my sons responses and hearing noises can be irritating too. Yesterday lots of antsy itchy crawly sensations on skin. Coolness of skin.
If to look at POI then it's DN stage. Certainly not EQ
BTW, I don't see anything to be feared in EQ except clinging to it for not being DN anymore. There is nothing in EQ Nana that's concerned with contracted feeling/perception of fear. In my experience that is. Stuff is just there evenly in awareness. Who is aware? can arise ... don't know. Whatever is arising is just fine as is.
However I don't think I'm to focus on POI right now. Just felt to update Tim my man here on where me mind is on the Map
let me talk POI a bit; sensate experience is rather drumming in ears, Mysery (as sadness), bodily heaviness, stiff neck, sore throat, lack of focus (as in center sharpness is lacking). Also irritated by my sons responses and hearing noises can be irritating too. Yesterday lots of antsy itchy crawly sensations on skin. Coolness of skin.
If to look at POI then it's DN stage. Certainly not EQ
BTW, I don't see anything to be feared in EQ except clinging to it for not being DN anymore. There is nothing in EQ Nana that's concerned with contracted feeling/perception of fear. In my experience that is. Stuff is just there evenly in awareness. Who is aware? can arise ... don't know. Whatever is arising is just fine as is.
However I don't think I'm to focus on POI right now. Just felt to update Tim my man here on where me mind is on the Map
"My own experience was that POI was important for first and second path."
I hear you maybe Im just rushing things. Maybe Im just trying to hide from something or not face something that POI would uncover ... dunno. Could be. Maybe this path-ing is just too ridiculous for me, in a sense of "where the heck are we heading to when there is nothing other than This", its right here right now (sensations/feelings"mental states unfolidng). Maybe its something else. Who knows?
Ok.
Back to the 5 elements;
So its still in the body sensations funny as that is whats always really there and readily accessible for us Basically keep at it, noticing, paying attention. We can call it "5 elements thinking" beacuse when Im become aware of say, cold breeze on skin I then think "air element" you see why I find these practices ridiculous as that was but Thinking that came from the sensation of cold breeze and also before that came from us talking about it, because I've heard of it. This leading to that etc ...
Same with visualisation; I guess I can live with the explanation that we invoke the feelings we would otherwise not experince, like the feeling of falling from a high ecliff, hopless, staring at the earth closing in and my inevitable death. I was in active war for 2 years and 4 days. I lived with such thoughts of my imminent death. I've held dead and heavily wounded. I even had a guy bleed out on my hands as I was not clearly thinking to maybe rip his clothes open and find the hit spot to stop that bleeding! His death sure is on me. I didnt know the guy, nor his family nor what they went through after they've got the news about their father's/brother's/husband's/son's death.
Any way, I even had one handgrenade kept just for myself in case I would fall into enemy hands. (certain military groups were radical and even non-official, priding themselves with how they slowly kill those captured). So I would have those visualisations of me holding that grenade and taking out the safety pin and releasing it, pressing it against my chest and just being in those few seconds before ... death. In many ways I have died so many times and yet I still have fear of heights and large dogs I guess this organisms prefers to survive
All this beaing said, I was never suicidal as in ending life because I felt depressed. This war stuff was only fear of falling into wrong hands and being slowly killed or even having another man cut my throat open. Ugly stuff.
Ok back to this thread of not being sure how to proceed; Maybe Im to just sit with exactly THAT! This NOT BEING SURE feeling. Noticing will be with us until the day we die anyway Its not like we will be free from it while conscious
Thanks for the reply shargrol I much appreciate it. I will let it sink in some more and see what comes out of it.
I hear you
maybe Im just rushing things. Maybe Im just trying to hide from something or not face something that POI would uncover ... dunno. Could be. Maybe this path-ing is just too ridiculous for me, in a sense of "where the heck are we heading to when there is nothing other than This", its right here right now (sensations/feelings"mental states unfolidng). Maybe its something else. Who knows?Ok.
Back to the 5 elements;
So its still in the body sensations
funny as that is whats always really there and readily accessible for us Basically keep at it, noticing, paying attention. We can call it "5 elements thinking" beacuse when Im become aware of say, cold breeze on skin I then think "air element" you see why I find these practices ridiculous as that was but Thinking that came from the sensation of cold breeze and also before that came from us talking about it, because I've heard of it. This leading to that etc ...Same with visualisation; I guess I can live with the explanation that we invoke the feelings we would otherwise not experince, like the feeling of falling from a high ecliff, hopless, staring at the earth closing in and my inevitable death. I was in active war for 2 years and 4 days. I lived with such thoughts of my imminent death. I've held dead and heavily wounded. I even had a guy bleed out on my hands as I was not clearly thinking to maybe rip his clothes open and find the hit spot to stop that bleeding! His death sure is on me. I didnt know the guy, nor his family nor what they went through after they've got the news about their father's/brother's/husband's/son's death.
Any way, I even had one handgrenade kept just for myself in case I would fall into enemy hands. (certain military groups were radical and even non-official, priding themselves with how they slowly kill those captured). So I would have those visualisations of me holding that grenade and taking out the safety pin and releasing it, pressing it against my chest and just being in those few seconds before ... death. In many ways I have died so many times and yet I still have fear of heights and large dogs
I guess this organisms prefers to survive All this beaing said, I was never suicidal as in ending life because I felt depressed. This war stuff was only fear of falling into wrong hands and being slowly killed or even having another man cut my throat open. Ugly stuff.
Ok back to this thread of not being sure how to proceed; Maybe Im to just sit with exactly THAT! This NOT BEING SURE feeling. Noticing will be with us until the day we die anyway
Its not like we will be free from it while conscious Thanks for the reply shargrol I much appreciate it. I will let it sink in some more and see what comes out of it.
Sam Gentile:
" Shargrol suggested to look in the WUTYL book"
What is the WUTYL book? Could it be useful to me?
What is the WUTYL book? Could it be useful to me?
On what it is:
There seems to be a consensus that it is one of the great dharma books, and also among the great practice-oriented ones recently (2001) published by a Western teacher.
(There is an audiobook, too, read by the author; you can buy it, but it is also available on Spotify and Youtube. https://open.spotify.com/album/43FNMmQaX4Q9YEcJXXFgWL?si=npVuFa6UQv2cbxyYflVYbw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPYBJac7oWI&list=OLAK5uy_lWRq5MhPNthDDe1nYXtlekDA40wtrpKE0&index=2&ab_channel=KenMcLeod-Topic beware of ads though, or use them for working with irritation
)
The first 90 pages would stand on their own - a very nice recapitulation of basic Buddhist concepts and an outline of basic breath meditation as seen by McLeod ("resting in the breath", not identical to observing it) + working with hindrances etc. May be worth checking out even if one is already familiar with the territory (it managed to surprise me a dozen times, but of course that is only a fact about me).
This is followed by a number of practices such as working with emotional reactivity; death & impermanence; five elements; the four immeasurables. One should do these over longer stretches (months or longer). Hopefully someone with more experience can you about results and usefulnes.
Unfettered Mind is an outstanding resource with a wealth of materials by the author, with many of the practices from the book also covered or touched upon here, as well, with recordings from retreat dharma talks etc. As you will see, the subtitle (or motto?) of the site is Pragmatic Buddhism. Sounds not altogether alien or irrelevant to pragmatic dharma...
(Also, his Tibetan lineage might be interesting for you perhaps.)
(There is an audiobook, too, read by the author; you can buy it, but it is also available on Spotify and Youtube. https://open.spotify.com/album/43FNMmQaX4Q9YEcJXXFgWL?si=npVuFa6UQv2cbxyYflVYbw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPYBJac7oWI&list=OLAK5uy_lWRq5MhPNthDDe1nYXtlekDA40wtrpKE0&index=2&ab_channel=KenMcLeod-Topic beware of ads though, or use them for working with irritation
)The first 90 pages would stand on their own - a very nice recapitulation of basic Buddhist concepts and an outline of basic breath meditation as seen by McLeod ("resting in the breath", not identical to observing it) + working with hindrances etc. May be worth checking out even if one is already familiar with the territory (it managed to surprise me a dozen times, but of course that is only a fact about me).
This is followed by a number of practices such as working with emotional reactivity; death & impermanence; five elements; the four immeasurables. One should do these over longer stretches (months or longer). Hopefully someone with more experience can you about results and usefulnes.
Unfettered Mind is an outstanding resource with a wealth of materials by the author, with many of the practices from the book also covered or touched upon here, as well, with recordings from retreat dharma talks etc. As you will see, the subtitle (or motto?) of the site is Pragmatic Buddhism. Sounds not altogether alien or irrelevant to pragmatic dharma...
(Also, his Tibetan lineage might be interesting for you perhaps.)
"I get what you say about it sometimes seeming forced."
Yes it does doesn't it. I will need to simplify the practices as I'm like that in anything I do. I prefer the core teaching and throw away all the packaging and adverts for this to work. The Tibetan religious stuff would need to go first. Dakini bye bye But I could keep the Colors and imagine them. But even this is making my head shake and smile as in "oh gawd, am I really doing this stuff".
Dunno. Will find time to get read the book some more. I don't think I'm inspired enough to engage into any practice but to just sit. All else seems like too much effort, placing too many hats on the head so to speak
Sitting before bed time is continuing and is more in shape of just sitting. There could be all sorts of practices arising within this sitting and they are but being seen as thoughts and patterns. I really can't take them seriously for some reason. They pop in just like any other sensate experience.
Dukkha and the end of Dukkha was always the main motivator for me and the very reason I started this journey in 2008. Minutes guess I'm not suffering enough to just grab onto something with my hole heart and keep at it.
Let's see how this goes.
Yes it does
doesn't it. I will need to simplify the practices as I'm like that in anything I do. I prefer the core teaching and throw away all the packaging and adverts for this to work. The Tibetan religious stuff would need to go first. Dakini bye bye But I could keep the Colors and imagine them. But even this is making my head shake and smile as in "oh gawd, am I really doing this stuff". Dunno. Will find time to get read the book some more. I don't think I'm inspired enough to engage into any practice but to just sit. All else seems like too much effort, placing too many hats on the head so to speak
Sitting before bed time is continuing and is more in shape of just sitting. There could be all sorts of practices arising within this sitting and they are but being seen as thoughts and patterns.
I really can't take them seriously for some reason. They pop in just like any other sensate experience. Dukkha and the end of Dukkha was always the main motivator for me and the very reason I started this journey in 2008. Minutes guess I'm not suffering enough to just grab onto something with my hole heart and keep at it.
Let's see how this goes.
I know We get dragged every so often into this sense that something is to be found down in that deep well, something behind that reflection of our face How ridiculous really
Thank you!
We get dragged every so often into this sense that something is to be found down in that deep well, something behind that reflection of our face How ridiculous really Thank you!
My 4 year old boy came to me with a photo he found of him as a 1 day old baby holding my little finger. So many memories popped up and so many feelings, tear feelings of joy and amazement and being humbeled by the fact that life comes as it comes about.
It dawned on me that I love everyhting about being a sane loving human person.
This forum can pull one into its dynamic path-ing as there are so many plowing/gliding through their paths and this pull can really be felt in a way of almost needing to follow suit and find a new "better" way and yet to me whats most precious is This unfolding in all its good and bad forms. What else can there be? Chasing new fresh experiences to feel more alive? To feel like one is not behind all those "advanced" members on this forum or elsewhere? Live up to your "attainments"? What?
I actually find all this to be rubish and is only giving newer members/meditators lots of wrong ideas (as in "I also have to have that experience").
Life is already happening ... don't miss it its a good human life.
BTW, I think just sitting with what is, will do just fine at this time in my life. Thanks all for chiming in with ideas and tips
It dawned on me that I love everyhting about being a sane loving human person.
This forum can pull one into its dynamic path-ing as there are so many plowing/gliding through their paths and this pull can really be felt in a way of almost needing to follow suit and find a new "better" way and yet to me whats most precious is This unfolding in all its good and bad forms. What else can there be? Chasing new fresh experiences to feel more alive? To feel like one is not behind all those "advanced" members on this forum or elsewhere? Live up to your "attainments"? What?
I actually find all this to be rubish and is only giving newer members/meditators lots of wrong ideas (as in "I also have to have that experience").
Life is already happening ... don't miss it
its a good human life. BTW, I think just sitting with what is, will do just fine at this time in my life. Thanks all for chiming in with ideas and tips
Papa Che Dusko:
...and yet to me whats most precious is This unfolding in all its good and bad forms. What else can there be? Chasing new fresh experiences to feel more alive? To feel like one is not behind all those "advanced" members on this forum or elsewhere? Live up to your "attainments"? What?
I actually find all this to be rubish and is only giving newer members/meditators lots of wrong ideas (as in "I also have to have that experience").
Life is already happening ... don't miss it
its a good human life. Honestly, you really nailed it with this. This is exactly what it is and something I've been appreciating more and more. This unfolding in all its unique and special ways. All of it. Something I wrote the other day that I think might click with you:
One of the biggest errors of focusing on limited aspects of experience (or to connect with what you're saying here, Che, people clinging to how advanced they feel or having FOMO) - like a particular sensation you want more of, or to repress, or get rid of - is that this is ignorant of the totality of experience. While one may want to try to focus on and grasp one thing that feels pleasant or push away something that seems unpleasant, it’s just one aspect of the wider field and it’s impossible to get more or less of that exact sensation or replicate it or delete it. There are countless things that have to come together to produce the totality of what someone experiences via all sense doors in any given moment. It’s like a ballet that comes together instantaneously because of all the elements simultaneously present in that dance. All those countless conditions, which we can never fully know the extent of, coming together in that one moment to produce a full field of experience have never occurred in that specific totality before and will never happen like that again. Some of the aspects of experience might feel similar to things we've felt in the past, but the rest of the elements that are also present in that moment occuring with it haven't also been there before, so it is actually new and fresh each time. When viewed like this it’s really quite awe-inspiring and magical. It is a continuity of living. And it makes you get a sense of how misguided clinging and aversion are.
Ha!
"When viewed like this it’s really quite awe-inspiring and magical. It is a continuity of living. And it makes you get a sense of how misguided clinging and aversion are."
I would find even this as a "fancy" way of going about it and what others on the path might read as "oh shit, that is exactly how I should experience awakening"
All this "magical and awe-inspiering" is also subject to Anicca and gets ripped a brand new a-hole each time we think Thats It
All this stuff means nothing without the non-magical and meh-inspiering and WTF stuff thats part of This ever chaging shapes. "We are fucked" is as close as it gets really (or not, you know, I dont know) or the way some folks here say "Oh, shit !!!" seems fitting
I mean this stuff, the experience, can go far deeper than we humans can even dream off. Maybe infinite ... ... ... ...
I mean, what are we doing here? How far is far enough? When can this "dancer" go to rest and give up dancing? Maybe the dancer can find that other "tibetan practice" to maybe get a bit deeper ... just a bit more, ... to the next level of "deep/all inclusive/sense the true nature of mind that can't be seen" How deep is deep enough to give up already
Sorry Im in a funky mood again I should probably rest as I havent slept that well last night.
Best wishes to you!
"When viewed like this it’s really quite awe-inspiring and magical. It is a continuity of living. And it makes you get a sense of how misguided clinging and aversion are."
I would find even this as a "fancy" way of going about it and what others on the path might read as "oh shit, that is exactly how I should experience awakening" All this "magical and awe-inspiering" is also subject to Anicca and gets ripped a brand new a-hole each time we think Thats It
All this stuff means nothing without the non-magical and meh-inspiering and WTF stuff thats part of This ever chaging shapes. "We are fucked" is as close as it gets really (or not, you know, I dont know)
or the way some folks here say "Oh, shit !!!" seems fitting I mean this stuff, the experience, can go far deeper than we humans can even dream off. Maybe infinite ... ... ... ...
I mean, what are we doing here?
How far is far enough? When can this "dancer" go to rest and give up dancing? Maybe the dancer can find that other "tibetan practice" to maybe get a bit deeper ... just a bit more, ... to the next level of "deep/all inclusive/sense the true nature of mind that can't be seen" How deep is deep enough to give up already Sorry Im in a funky mood again
I should probably rest as I havent slept that well last night.Best wishes to you!
Nicely said, and when ecperience is experienced in that complete, neither pushing nor pulling away, there is indeed something awesome about it but in a very non intense and quiet way, in fact it's beyokd quiet since there is nothing that is not part of the completeness including the reaction...... And that's where we touch on enlightened activity, isn't it ?
Papaji, just as an fyi, aversion to specific practices and doubt in their usefulness and general fedupness with anyone telling me what i should be meditating on or doing was basically the core of my DN in panditarama lumbini. It would get pretty intense... It still comes about some days , in a small version, and i've learned to recognize those thoughts and feelings as hey, these panditarama lumbini thought loops!!!
Maybe that's not what's happening at all here, i dot know just wanted to mention it.
Papaji, just as an fyi, aversion to specific practices and doubt in their usefulness and general fedupness with anyone telling me what i should be meditating on or doing was basically the core of my DN in panditarama lumbini. It would get pretty intense... It still comes about some days , in a small version, and i've learned to recognize those thoughts and feelings as hey, these panditarama lumbini thought loops!!!
Maybe that's not what's happening at all here, i dot know
just wanted to mention it.
"when ecperience is experienced in that complete, neither pushing nor pulling away, there is indeed something awesome about it but in a very non intense and quiet way, in fact it's beyokd quiet since there is nothing that is not part of the completeness including the reaction...... And that's where we touch on enlightened activity, isn't it ? "
That's all good stuff and certainly happens as such. What I wonder is if this "enlightened activity" is permanent or if indeed is also subject to Anicca? I feel there is benefit in talking about this so folks on this path don't hope for some version of awakening that is permanent and uneffected by Anicca and Dukkha. Yes, even if sense of self is not there this mammal seems to suffer still and impermanence still is ripping UNLESS there is no self-validation and reflection taking place but only profound engagement with objects arising and passing. Meaning if there is constant profound engagement non stop during conscious lifeing then even Anicca nor Dukkha seems an issue as we can see in our on cushion experience. But I can't see how this is possible to transfer into off cushion lifeing with all the interactions and stuff happening.
Ok I will stop now as we need to think about dinner I hope you can see what I'm after here.
p.s. I will not read through what I wrote now and will wonder about it later I hope i didn't say something offending that is not my intent.
I will press publish now and hope this to bring some good stuff about.
EDIT; I just read through what I wrote. What a bunch of rubbish
That's all good stuff and certainly happens as such. What I wonder is if this "enlightened activity" is permanent or if indeed is also subject to Anicca?
I feel there is benefit in talking about this so folks on this path don't hope for some version of awakening that is permanent and uneffected by Anicca and Dukkha. Yes, even if sense of self is not there this mammal seems to suffer still and impermanence still is ripping UNLESS there is no self-validation and reflection taking place but only profound engagement with objects arising and passing. Meaning if there is constant profound engagement non stop during conscious lifeing then even Anicca nor Dukkha seems an issue as we can see in our on cushion experience. But I can't see how this is possible to transfer into off cushion lifeing with all the interactions and stuff happening. Ok I will stop now as we need to think about dinner
I hope you can see what I'm after here. p.s. I will not read through what I wrote now and will wonder about it later
I hope i didn't say something offending that is not my intent. I will press publish now and hope this to bring some good stuff about.
EDIT; I just read through what I wrote. What a bunch of rubbish
Thanks! Yeah sounds like fun times
Just to log a bit;
I decided to sit a 45er this morning and do some freestyle noting aloud just to see a bit closer what's happening.
Body stiffness in the right side with preassure in the top of the skull going down into the brain, sore throat right side, stiff neck right side, shoulder blade right side.
Heat in the body almost throughout even while the murk took over the open eyes visuals. The usual lava lamp dark blobs in the periphery trying to get into the center but never succeed. Center vanishing.
One curious thing happened at the same time. There was a needle sharp itch on the right side of the back and softer itch on top of left side of head which turned quickly into bubbling sensation (note right side of top of the head has an unpleasant preassure pressing down into the skull) and a unpleasant insect crawling sensation on the left side of neck (mind image of a small disgusting spider).
Such various experiences indicate different Nana phenomena in different body parts and all within a few seconds or less apart.
Ear frequency was high pitch (still is).
There was aversion towards silence. I mean there was my loud voice and even the ear high pitch frequency but this felt not enough. There was desire for hearing birds, wind, cars passing and none of it was happening. Was looking at that aversion and also looking at this practice of looking at all that. It's just a train of experiences and no knowing what's arising next. Hopeless to assume anything really.
Towards the end there came boredom which had some restless to it so I continued standing meditation. Alarm rang a few minutes after this.
Couple of nights ago I've had a nasty dream. It was a nightmare which woke me up and I had to get up to "shake it off" a bit. I dreamt of being in our toilet and saw large holes in the corner wall as if something ate its way through it. Then a swarm of thin insects swarmed out of it, mantis like with needle like legs stinging me all over the body. I started shaking them off ... woke up.
Yeah sounds like fun times Just to log a bit;
I decided to sit a 45er this morning and do some freestyle noting aloud just to see a bit closer what's happening.
Body stiffness in the right side with preassure in the top of the skull going down into the brain, sore throat right side, stiff neck right side, shoulder blade right side.
Heat in the body almost throughout even while the murk took over the open eyes visuals. The usual lava lamp dark blobs in the periphery trying to get into the center but never succeed. Center vanishing.
One curious thing happened at the same time. There was a needle sharp itch on the right side of the back and softer itch on top of left side of head which turned quickly into bubbling sensation (note right side of top of the head has an unpleasant preassure pressing down into the skull) and a unpleasant insect crawling sensation on the left side of neck (mind image of a small disgusting spider).
Such various experiences indicate different Nana phenomena in different body parts and all within a few seconds or less apart.
Ear frequency was high pitch (still is).
There was aversion towards silence. I mean there was my loud voice and even the ear high pitch frequency but this felt not enough. There was desire for hearing birds, wind, cars passing and none of it was happening. Was looking at that aversion and also looking at this practice of looking at all that. It's just a train of experiences and no knowing what's arising next. Hopeless to assume anything really.
Towards the end there came boredom which had some restless to it so I continued standing meditation. Alarm rang a few minutes after this.
Couple of nights ago I've had a nasty dream. It was a nightmare which woke me up and I had to get up to "shake it off" a bit. I dreamt of being in our toilet and saw large holes in the corner wall as if something ate its way through it. Then a swarm of thin insects swarmed out of it, mantis like with needle like legs stinging me all over the body. I started shaking them off ... woke up.
Thanks Sam
Day two without nicotine. Very agonizing pain under the right shoulder blade to the point of me not being able to put on my jacket or pick up my son.
The spacey lost mind state looking for "something" is rather there all day. There is short in and outbreathing. Lots of Desire for coffee and snacks of any kind. I say no to snacks (I do take raw pumpkin seeds) but I let go into the coffee.
Low and high frequencies in the ears. Lots of pulsating vibrations in hands and arms as if these are ripples. Actually I can sense those in the lower back and buttocks too. It's as if the attention also has this rippling character.
Not in the best of moods generally speaking. Absolutely no desire to sit and meditate. Like, fuck meditation I want nicotine instead!!! I'm such a sad bunch of rippling sensations!
The spacey lost mind state looking for "something" is rather there all day. There is short in and outbreathing. Lots of Desire for coffee and snacks of any kind. I say no to snacks (I do take raw pumpkin seeds) but I let go into the coffee.
Low and high frequencies in the ears. Lots of pulsating vibrations in hands and arms as if these are ripples. Actually I can sense those in the lower back and buttocks too. It's as if the attention also has this rippling character.
Not in the best of moods generally speaking. Absolutely no desire to sit and meditate. Like, fuck meditation I want nicotine instead!!! I'm such a sad bunch of rippling sensations!
Ride it through, Papaji! You can do it.
You are doing a great job. Give yourself a treat and celebrate in whatever form you can. Maybe you could even go easy on the cookie ban Anyways, we are rooting for you, Mate.
Anyways, we are rooting for you, Mate.
Cheers mate!
Much appreciate the support from you all!
Much appreciate the support from you all!
Hang tough, mate. You've got music to make.
Good man Sam Im not giving up! It feels like shit being slave to such a habit.
Im not giving up! It feels like shit being slave to such a habit.
Was at two doctors today;
the first one sticked some long thing down my nose so to look into me throat. He said its not cancer but it is some sort of harmless Candida fungus. Will pick up meds for it and start with treatements ASAP as it is irritating.
Doc number 2 said my blood test shows that Im a healthy horse with slightly high colesterol but nothing to worry about as it went down since last time we checked. Also the blood preassue is just above the normal so stopping with nicotine and having more daily body motion will fix that.
I havent tested what this stiffness under the shoulder blade, neck and in the top of the skull is but I dont care and will blame POI for it.
Back to treating these conditions with meds, body motion and noting meditation. And yes, staying away from nicotine! (day 8 and counting)
Thanks for your support ya all
the first one sticked some long thing down my nose so to look into me throat. He said its not cancer
but it is some sort of harmless Candida fungus. Will pick up meds for it and start with treatements ASAP as it is irritating.Doc number 2 said my blood test shows that Im a healthy horse with slightly high colesterol but nothing to worry about as it went down since last time we checked. Also the blood preassue is just above the normal so stopping with nicotine and having more daily body motion will fix that.
I havent tested what this stiffness under the shoulder blade, neck and in the top of the skull is but I dont care and will blame POI for it.
Back to treating these conditions with meds, body motion and noting meditation. And yes, staying away from nicotine! (day 8 and counting)
Thanks for your support ya all
Thank you Sam! I hope you are doing ok considering your health situation mate! I wish I could find more wise words to tell you my friend but they fail me. I wish I could take away suffering from beings but this seems like a fools hope What can we do? Be there for each other and ride the wave as best as we can, together and yet all alone on our personal fragile dhamma rafts adrift on the vast ocean of samsara
May you have the strenght needed for it all mate!
Best wishes!
What can we do? Be there for each other and ride the wave as best as we can, together and yet all alone on our personal fragile dhamma rafts adrift on the vast ocean of samsara May you have the strenght needed for it all mate!
Best wishes!
My apologies for my reply sounding too personal as in directed to you I reacted more to the general way we practitioners place certain awakened experiences as the "right ones" only failing to see that they too are but yet another experience.
What I was after is;
"The middle way, if you will - the level'ing of the playing field of all sensations and aspects of experience being equal."
Is this "middle way and experience being equal" subject to Anicca or is it actually a permanent state of awakeness? Is awakening a permanent state or is also subject to Anicca? Basically can we win this fight by getting that "being equal middle way" or will this also be ripped off by Anicca?
If so then why would I favor that "middle way and all experiences being equal" experience over any other like an itch. Again I'm not attacking here just wondering about this with a friend
Again my apologies for my reply sounding rude. Was not meant to be that way.
I reacted more to the general way we practitioners place certain awakened experiences as the "right ones" only failing to see that they too are but yet another experience. What I was after is;
"The middle way, if you will - the level'ing of the playing field of all sensations and aspects of experience being equal."
Is this "middle way and experience being equal" subject to Anicca or is it actually a permanent state of awakeness? Is awakening a permanent state or is also subject to Anicca?
Basically can we win this fight by getting that "being equal middle way" or will this also be ripped off by Anicca? If so then why would I favor that "middle way and all experiences being equal" experience over any other like an itch. Again
I'm not attacking here just wondering about this with a friend Again my apologies for my reply sounding rude. Was not meant to be that way.
Steph:
Papa Che Dusko:
...and yet to me whats most precious is This unfolding in all its good and bad forms. What else can there be? Chasing new fresh experiences to feel more alive? To feel like one is not behind all those "advanced" members on this forum or elsewhere? Live up to your "attainments"? What?
I actually find all this to be rubish and is only giving newer members/meditators lots of wrong ideas (as in "I also have to have that experience").
Life is already happening ... don't miss it
its a good human life. Honestly, you really nailed it with this. This is exactly what it is and something I've been appreciating more and more. This unfolding in all its unique and special ways. All of it. Something I wrote the other day that I think might click with you:
One of the biggest errors of focusing on limited aspects of experience (or to connect with what you're saying here, Che, people clinging to how advanced they feel or having FOMO) - like a particular sensation you want more of, or to repress, or get rid of - is that this is ignorant of the totality of experience. While one may want to try to focus on and grasp one thing that feels pleasant or push away something that seems unpleasant, it’s just one aspect of the wider field and it’s impossible to get more or less of that exact sensation or replicate it or delete it. There are countless things that have to come together to produce the totality of what someone experiences via all sense doors in any given moment. It’s like a ballet that comes together instantaneously because of all the elements simultaneously present in that dance. All those countless conditions, which we can never fully know the extent of, coming together in that one moment to produce a full field of experience have never occurred in that specific totality before and will never happen like that again. Some of the aspects of experience might feel similar to things we've felt in the past, but the rest of the elements that are also present in that moment occuring with it haven't also been there before, so it is actually new and fresh each time. When viewed like this it’s really quite awe-inspiring and magical. It is a continuity of living. And it makes you get a sense of how misguided clinging and aversion are.
Papa Che, what part of "Honestly, you really nailed it with this. This is exactly what it is and something I've been appreciating more and more. This unfolding in all its unique and special ways. All of it," did you not understand to be a loving and direct expression of simpatico, camaraderie, and appreciation?
Papa Che
"When viewed like this it’s really quite awe-inspiring and magical. It is a continuity of living. And it makes you get a sense of how misguided clinging and aversion are."
I would find even this as a "fancy" way of going about it and what others on the path might read as "oh shit, that is exactly how I should experience awakening"
All this "magical and awe-inspiering" is also subject to Anicca and gets ripped a brand new a-hole each time we think Thats It
All this stuff means nothing without the non-magical and meh-inspiering and WTF stuff thats part of This ever chaging shapes. "We are fucked" is as close as it gets really (or not, you know, I dont know) or the way some folks here say "Oh, shit !!!" seems fitting
I mean this stuff, the experience, can go far deeper than we humans can even dream off. Maybe infinite ... ... ... ...
I mean, what are we doing here? How far is far enough? When can this "dancer" go to rest and give up dancing? Maybe the dancer can find that other "tibetan practice" to maybe get a bit deeper ... just a bit more, ... to the next level of "deep/all inclusive/sense the true nature of mind that can't be seen" How deep is deep enough to give up already
Sorry Im in a funky mood again I should probably rest as I havent slept that well last night.
Best wishes to you!
"When viewed like this it’s really quite awe-inspiring and magical. It is a continuity of living. And it makes you get a sense of how misguided clinging and aversion are."
I would find even this as a "fancy" way of going about it and what others on the path might read as "oh shit, that is exactly how I should experience awakening" All this "magical and awe-inspiering" is also subject to Anicca and gets ripped a brand new a-hole each time we think Thats It
All this stuff means nothing without the non-magical and meh-inspiering and WTF stuff thats part of This ever chaging shapes. "We are fucked" is as close as it gets really (or not, you know, I dont know)
or the way some folks here say "Oh, shit !!!" seems fitting I mean this stuff, the experience, can go far deeper than we humans can even dream off. Maybe infinite ... ... ... ...
I mean, what are we doing here?
How far is far enough? When can this "dancer" go to rest and give up dancing? Maybe the dancer can find that other "tibetan practice" to maybe get a bit deeper ... just a bit more, ... to the next level of "deep/all inclusive/sense the true nature of mind that can't be seen" How deep is deep enough to give up already Sorry Im in a funky mood again
I should probably rest as I havent slept that well last night.Best wishes to you!
Papaji. do you really think you are the only one who has looked into the abyss and the fathomless horror? Steph has, I've seen her talk about it. You've had a comrade bleed out in your arms, she's seen a vast dusty plain of endless boredom unrelieved by meaning, love, or joy. Who's to say who has more nerve and more courage, turning with fresh resolve to face the ever changing shapes of this exquisite shit storm? You've been in a black phase and her instinct is to try to show you she's with you, and to offer an angle of her own experience with some light in it. That's called love and compassion, where I come from. The proper response might be something like, "Thank you." Or maybe, "I love you too."
This new forum upgrade seems to be difficult to navigate so I will take a break from the forum until its fixed. Im not a tech so cant offer any help sorry
Quick update;
day 14 (i think) off nicotine and it still in the unpleasant realm but its being treated the same way as anything elese ... THISNESS UNFOLDING as its changing faces, voices, feelings, sensations, perceptions ... ... ...
I could go on about what this nicotine dependency means but in truth its same as yet abother itch on the nose. It really is. I could go on about and make an important thing about it but why would I do that?
So all good, or not, I dont know. I still do my daily walks in the forest.
Lets hope this forum gets fixed soon! Best wishes to all!
Quick update;
day 14 (i think) off nicotine and it still in the unpleasant realm but its being treated the same way as anything elese ... THISNESS UNFOLDING as its changing faces, voices, feelings, sensations, perceptions ... ... ...
I could go on about what this nicotine dependency means but in truth its same as yet abother itch on the nose. It really is. I could go on about and make an important thing about it but why would I do that?
So all good, or not,
I dont know. I still do my daily walks in the forest. Lets hope this forum gets fixed soon! Best wishes to all!