Lukas' Practice Log

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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

Lukas' Practice Log

Posts: 22 Join Date: 1/12/21 Recent Posts
I've been stalking this forum for a while now and seen its value on a large scale so I decided to start my own practice log to keep me accountable as well as to connect with others on this path.

Story:

Briefly put: Got depressed in military around the January of 2019. Discovered meditation, Dr. Joe Dispenza and all the new age stuff came later. Saw through how each of these things worked as I gained wisdom to how the mind works and how the content of thoughts work as well as how it causes feelings, loops, beliefs etc. Coming from a self-help point of view, this was a huge success for me. 

Discovered Eckhart Tolle, Rupert Spira and once on a sit, just looking outside, realised that there never was a Lukas and it as well as its attributes (such as nice, insecure etc.) were just these thoughts that appeared and disappeared, Started crying and laughing and realised there was never even a Lukas in the first place. That faded in a few hours as I went through my days but I never forgot it. And know with such clarity the case that I had to go take this to another level.

Started more of an insight-meditation practice because I wanted to bring a new level of clarity and insight to my day to day reality and realised that in order for the experience to change, it needed to be something that persists and is not only on the level of thoughts, but actually dissolving the duality and seeing the truth in every experience there is.

Did a 3-day retreat in the woods this past weekend focusing first on concentration, then insight practice through noting (mostly without labels) for the next 2 days. I think I reached the first Jhana on the first day.

Practice:

This is something that I'm trying to optimise for me for max gains as well as ease of execution. Currently consisting of:
- Too much stalking on this forum + dharma talks on youtube
- 30-45mins of dry noting (switching between labels and no labels) each morning
- 40 mins + of noting (without labels) and listening to a dharma talk each night.

My Stage? 

I don't know, no idea. I can do my sits easily without the mind wandering as I see thoughts as thoughts, most of the time not identifying with the content. I see intentions, how this thoughts / image causes that feeling and intention and so forth. Also I don't know if it's delusional trying but I can often experience this "fuzz" / digital noise of tv in sounds, as well as sometimes with touch. 

The sense of duality with an observer is intact, every sensation seems to be perceived by the "me" behind the eyes. I can notice this and often paired with sensations there's this subtle image of the place where that sensation was, inside the mental screen. Also it seems like there's an "eye of awareness" going to each of the sensations that I note.

I don't note aloud and often don't use labels as they seem to slow me down. I can't note as fast or as clearly as without them and it creates this layer of mental identification that doesn't seem good to be there in my opinion (even though I know I shouldn't note the labels as thinking)
Tim Farrington, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Hi Lukas, and welcome to DhO! It's a big leap to make, and jumping into a practice log is an auspicious indication. Pragmatic dharma is practice over all, and the fine points emerge perfectly well over time through practice and more practice. 

Your state of the art meditation routine sounds great, very un-broke. The issue of verbalization in noting has a lot of nuance, and you already seem good on discerning the effect of labeling at various points. There are people around here who can and will offer their own experience and perspectives on pretty much all the various points, lol, and all to the good. The sheer range and volume of experience here is one of the wonders of the place. Collectively, we may have made all the mistakes, and many of us are on the frontier of making brand new mistakes! This is one of the plusses of being in a practice-oriented community.

Again, welcome to the sangha, now you don't have to call it stalking, you can just call it keeping up with the neighborhood or something. Looking forward to sharing the path forward with you---
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Thank you Tim! 

I appreciate the reply very much. The community and the result of collective engagement is one of the biggest why's in deciding to actually do this. Here with an open mind. emoticon 
agnostic, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Lukas Lassooy:

Discovered Eckhart Tolle, Rupert Spira and once on a sit, just looking outside, realised that there never was a Lukas and it as well as its attributes (such as nice, insecure etc.) were just these thoughts that appeared and disappeared, Started crying and laughing and realised there was never even a Lukas in the first place. That faded in a few hours as I went through my days but I never forgot it. And know with such clarity the case that I had to go take this to another level.

Started more of an insight-meditation practice because I wanted to bring a new level of clarity and insight to my day to day reality and realised that in order for the experience to change, it needed to be something that persists and is not only on the level of thoughts, but actually dissolving the duality and seeing the truth in every experience there is.

So you've seen it, great. Now comes the tricky part. It's easy to get attached to not-Lukas and think you have to do some special practice to deepen or prolong the insight. Can you see how not-Lukas was there all along, even when you thought Lukas was there? If that's the case, then does your experience actually need to change in order to repeat the insight? Do you really need to dissolve the duality, or can you see the non-duality even in the duality? A lot of nondualists get hung up here, but that's the most radical way to see the truth in every experience there is.

I'm not knocking practice by the way, hopefullly it will bring about all sorts of positive changes for your emotional and psychological wellbeing. Welcome on board! emoticon 
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Thanks for that Agnostic! I was just reading Mahasi Sayadaw's Manual of insight and what it stated there was this new understanding of practice that should occur, where I don't try to get ahead of myself but the insights and the dualities will automatically dissolve once the noting mind and practice deepens through insights. 

What this means for me is that I'll let go of these intentions (and note them) that are wanting to gain insight that isn't coming automatically, but things that I'm kind of getting "interested" in. 

Update: 

Didn't do any evening meditation yesterday and the morning meditation went well, had a subtle disbelief in a successful session beforehand just because of how my mindfulness was very off that morning. Noted that and continued with practice which then revealed that the assumption was wrong.

Also within the manual of insight, it says that one should note every waking thing. I've read posts about this as well and considered it to be something I'd do. I've also tried to bring mindfulness to everything recently but sticking to noting every waking hour (with labels) could be something to try out. It'll be hard and at first almost impossible to stick to.

Things I'll do to make it work:
  • Let go of the attachment to doing it ALL the time (eg. working, doing complex things)
  • Decreasing the amount of stimulation I get (phone, social media, music etc.) to make sure it's easier to note everything 
  • Just starting to note from the moment I wake up and write notes everywhere to just note if I've forgotten to do so
  • Doing a sit in the morning anyways
Thoughts on this? 
agnostic, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Noting is an awesome practice and can produce dramatic results. Mahasi is da bomb, no need to read anything else at this point. My advice - note the hell out of everything you can, but don't be afraid to take a break and ground yourself if it gets too intense! Good luck and look forward to hearing how you get on. emoticon
agnostic, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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In Manual of Insight I would just start with Chapter 5 - Practical Instructions (which is substantially the same as the standalone book Practical Insight Meditation which is Daniel's favorite dharma book)
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Thank you! This is what I'm doing, and with that, I just focus on penetrating the object because I can't note how I experience it, it's too fast to do so. Also that is pretty much what I'm doing, BUT I don't have a primary object, but rather go where attention goes and note that and analyze. 

Today's morning sit went well, pretty tired for a bad night's sleep but managed to note pretty much every sensation experienced, I noticed it started to bother me and I started to analyze the reasoning and possible delusion of there being a subtle mental picture arising each time when I directed attention to an object as if to indicate which part of the body it is in and so that my mind could kind of "put it on a map". 

Is this normal or something my mind fabricates to create the illusion of deepening of practice? 
Tim Farrington, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Is this normal or something my mind fabricates to create the illusion of deepening of practice? 

yes, lol.
agnostic, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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The great thing about noting practice is that it doesn't matter what you are doing ... so long as you are noting it! So your noting stream might go something like:

- 'noting feeling tired'
- 'noting noting everything sensation'
- 'noting feeling that sit is going well'
- 'noting feeling bothered'
- 'noting analyzing and reasoning'
- 'noting doubts about delusion'
- 'noting objects trigger subtle mental pictures'
- 'noting thoughts about mapping thoughts onto the body'
- 'noting wondering whether this is normal or not'
- 'noting wondering whether the mind is just fabricating this to create the illusion of deepening practice'
- 'noting getting bored or tired or losing interest in noting'
- 'noting wondering what questions to ask or what to post on DhO'
- etc etc
- rinse, repeat

emoticon
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Haha YES Thank you! It's exactly that, and luckily it's been easy for me to do since I'm at a "stage" where I can observe all of that without the illusion that there's me thinking those. emoticonemoticon
agnostic, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Right:

- 'noting thoughts that I find noting easy to do because I'm at a certain stage'
- 'noting I'm free of the illusion that I'm thinking my thoughts'

Noting can be as brutal as you like emoticon 
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Haha EXACTLY! It's a never ending loop, HOWEVER, I do then just shift my attention to another object to avoid neverending loops in general. (and sometimes even note that, but I don't note noting)
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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To go further into this, I resolved to go deep and follow each sensation and its subtle traces in my most recent meditation (5minutes ago, noting while listening to a dharma talk), I stopped mental labels at one point because it started to create friction (which was also noted).

I went super deep into each sensation and how it came, went and caused the next and the next sensation cascading to the next most subtle thing that I couldn't even know what it was, but just objectifying everything (almost as if I would've said "not me" to the sensations) until I stopped doing that as well and let the sensations flow, Got to a super deep "state" and noted that as well LOL emoticon.

Was interesting to go deeper than just basic images, body feelings and touch, sound or sight and get into more of like subtle intention-like "movements" of "awareness" or focus that were distinguishable from normal intentions that for me seem to be composed of an image and a feeling. It was fun! :-)
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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On to something!!!! emoticon

To give some background: We discussed here about noting the deeper after-effects of a phenomenon, for example: "touch, mental image of foot, noting, awareness moving, noting, noting noting" etc. So that It goes deeper. 

I was reading the manual of insight and stumbled upon some great stuff, particularly noting of mental phenomena. And especially noting the noting and all senses there are.

This is something I understood: 

This is what it means that physical phenomena cause mental imprints, they arise as these subtle "noticer" effects. Sense perceptions can't observe sense perceptions, AKA each sense of "I" looking, noting etc. IS another sense perception, that can be noted and thus objectified as NOT-SELF. There's no self (logically speaking from what I just experienced as it creepes back up) AND this is exactly how I experienced my first realisation of there being no Lukas, even though that was just the conceptual Lukas that I woke up from.

So in my meditation today, I started with counting breaths to 100 to see if it would benefit me and I believe it did, It was easy to notice everything more clearly and penetrate the objects. Started going deeper to each dependently arising phenomena and it's mental counterparts and following that route to this roadblock which was also noted until something new came up and there seemed nothing to note emoticon.

Because of this, the meditation didn't seem like it was "mine" in any way. And after the sit, all the thoughts, things I did, conversations, opinions etc. didn't seem mine either, even the excitement to write this post wasn't mine. 

But now as I'm writing this, it seems very mine again.

Essentially, going deeper to each dependently arising sensation seems to give me some depth and insight. 

What do you think? emoticon
agnostic, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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"me" and "mine" comes and goes - it's impermanent. Everything is impermanent - every perception, every state, even impermanence (time) itself is impermanent (sometimes one is aware of timelessness, sometimes not)
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Regarding NANAs...

After reading the manual of insight tonight, the chapter 6 more specifically, I believe I've realised how these stages work...

I believe I've reached the second Nana and here's why (correct me if I'm wrong):

When sitting, I immediately set into the perceptual frame of seeing distinctly how phenomena are separate, eg. Seeing, thoughts, feelings, etc. And not me, I also see how there's the sensation and the "noticing" of it. These are clearly teo separate things and I also see "in this way" often when my mindfulness increases throughout the day. So I can basically "shift" to this gear fast and easy just by doing noting.

Then I can also notice how these phenomena of an object and the ovserver arise co-dependently. When I see this, THIS is what becomes the "lens thhrough which" or the main thing I'm DIRECTLY seeing, as if there were no sensations but just this "experience" or "knowledge" by itself. It's like a shift in perception, like that's the center of what I'm experiencing at that point. I hope you understand what I mean?

So, is this what the Nanas are? These knowledges that take the center screen as if while meditating (or normal life)? 

I can live just like any other person but I often find my perception changing to these "states" of sorts.

If these are the real thing, I figured it also would mean that by doing noting, when I can stay in one "mode" I can also shift through them kind of, and according to the manual of insight, when I notice these enough, the next Nana should come naturally.

Now as I have these methods of sorts to get to these shifts in how I'm experiencing everything, it seems as if there's a benefit of knowibg where you are on the map, because then you can just stay in that state and know how to cultivate it in order to then at some point have the next nana hit you like a ton of bricks, just as these have for me pretty much.
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Did a 45 minute sit this morning, starting with counting breaths to 100 and then to 0, I'm finding this to be beneficial to making it easier to concentrate and deepen clarity. Do you guys have any tips or other tricks to do the same that you've found to work better or well?

So today's sit was good, I didn't have as much clarity as on some other sits and I feel like the momentum gained from my own retreat is slowing down a bit (noticing this in daily mindfulness) even though it hasn't been long so I know this goes up and down.

In today's sit, I became very aware of the illusion of agency, I sensed (noted without labels) where the sensation (for example an itch), how the "choice" of focusing on that sensation and shifting attention was this sensation of it's own that had no agency either, then the image of where the sensation was happening came in simultaneously very quickly and then the feeling of feeling the sensation, as if there was this connection of sorts to it. Then I noticed the noting or noticing of that, then the noting of that and how the next thing that arose also came and repeated a very similar process, sometimes I started feeling empty emotionally (like a subtle dissatisfaction or sadness) that there was no agency, and then noted the feeling, and analysing arose that was also noted.

That was the theme of the sit, also I found it easier to not want to check the clock, I usually experience urges and intentions to check the time (in the form of thought, image of clock and seeing it, and then a feeling of how goood it would feel to release this aversion to reality) 
Tim Farrington, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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This is good strong practice, and it seems like you've got a balance between the concentration practice to open and the noting practice once you"re "rolling." And that's good detailed noting, seeing the sequence of a sensation arising even before the palpable feeling of it. Just do that, lol. Then some more.

Deconstructing the sense of agency at this visceral level, in practice, will indeed start to make some tremors felt intellectually and emotionally, as you noted. So don't neglect your intellectual and emotional work, off the mat: find some dharma reading/talks that feed you, and help you keep these developments in context. You're sort of undermining the cosmos, so take it at a pace you can stand, if at all possible. 
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Appreciate it a lot Tim! And yeah, that's what I'm trying to do, not neglect the conceptualisation of things, but neither have it as the main thing. Balancing it out. And yeah, keeping the mind fed with dharma keeps it fun.

Do you happen to have an opinion you'd share about the post I did about insight stages?
agnostic, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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It sounds like you are broadly in the territory of the second and third nanans. This kind of automatic quality of noting how each sensation connects to another sensation sounds like Cause & Effect (in MCTB Daniel describes it as "ratchet-like"). Noting agencylessness is similar to not-self in Three Characteristics stage. You could get more explicit about noting each of the 3Cs (not-self, impermanent, unsatisfactory) for every sensation.
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Thank you for that! I'm very agnostic when it comes to these and avoid deluding myself with these as it can cause problems. That's why I'm careful. But you mentioned "getting more explicit" about noting the 3Cs, does this mean to "try" to do it and see it clearly and if so, and possibly also labeling it as such? Or is it just that I do what I do and wait for the realisation to come by itself.

Something funny I'm experiencing is that in my day to day life, I find that whenever I get "lost in thought" and wake up from it sort of, the reaction to that is in the sort of "that's not me and, I know that" it can be a "not me" thought that comes up but not as something I identify with or it can be just a feeling that also not me that I notice emoticon. It seems like I'm either deluding myself to knowing this or that I've had enough repetition / exposure to "not me" in my sits that it seems the most natural thing.
Tim Farrington, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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It's sounds like you've got your balance, on the map stuff and the stages. And remember, you had an experience that strikes me as a classic A&P: 
Started crying and laughing and realised there was never even a Lukas in the first place. That faded in a few hours as I went through my days but I never forgot it. And know with such clarity the case that I had to go take this to another level.
You're working from that clarity of knowledge, and your practice ain't broke. That's the main thing. There are certain times when using the orienting lens of a particular mapping or phase of insight can help you relax and keep your cool when various kinds of shit are hitting the fan: much better to know that similar shit has hit similar fans, and that it happens to a lot of people at various points, and has for millennia. But most day-to-day practice is just the next step on the ground in front of you, and that step sometimes doesn't even look like a "path," it's just one more step. You're doing that beautifully.


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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Thank you so much for this! The experience I had was purely on the mental level (the one you'd think could be A&P) and that's why I doubt it being that because my perceptual skills hadn't developed much at that point. (other than from mental talk). But yes, thank you for that and the experience for sure keeps me with the knowledge that whatever arises is just that.
Tim Farrington, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Lukas Lassooy:
Thank you so much for this! The experience I had was purely on the mental level (the one you'd think could be A&P) and that's why I doubt it being that because my perceptual skills hadn't developed much at that point. (other than from mental talk). But yes, thank you for that and the experience for sure keeps me with the knowledge that whatever arises is just that.

lol, "crying and laughing" for an extended period is not "purely on the mental level." That's the whole shebang.
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Haha yeah, I guess so, it wasn't like a mental realisation, that's not what I meant but rather that the realisation wasn't on all experience (non-duality) it was like fvck, these thoughts are just thoughts and nothing else and I just experience them, I thought I was them but am not. And that felt like I had woken up from a total dream and that I now see mental reality as it is. And it wasn't a mental reflection but a clear seeing.
agnostic, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Lukas Lassooy:
Thank you for that! I'm very agnostic when it comes to these and avoid deluding myself with these as it can cause problems. That's why I'm careful. But you mentioned "getting more explicit" about noting the 3Cs, does this mean to "try" to do it and see it clearly and if so, and possibly also labeling it as such? Or is it just that I do what I do and wait for the realisation to come by itself.

Something funny I'm experiencing is that in my day to day life, I find that whenever I get "lost in thought" and wake up from it sort of, the reaction to that is in the sort of "that's not me and, I know that" it can be a "not me" thought that comes up but not as something I identify with or it can be just a feeling that also not me that I notice emoticon. It seems like I'm either deluding myself to knowing this or that I've had enough repetition / exposure to "not me" in my sits that it seems the most natural thing.

There's some intention there (coming from what you've read!) but it's also seeing "the way things really are". "Not me" (anatta) might be more noticeable to you due to your earlier experience, but it's closely related to the other two characteristics. It's not hard to see that all sensations are impermanent because they come and go, but so what? Well that's the root of dissatisfaction, because you can't hold onto the pleasant sensations (make them "mine") nor prevent the unpleasant sensations (make them "not mine"). If you keep noting this in a disciplined enough fashion then eventually it starts to become automatic and accelerates, which leads to the next stage ...
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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YES! It's like the noting of sensations and their after-effects, and the mental illusions of a watcher that come from them are being penetrated more and more each sit and it's becoming more automatic. And what I kind of notice is that it's this flow that has nothing to do with "me" and the "me" is just sensations. I kind of notice this natural progression to it and since it's becoming "automatic" of sorts.

I have faith in the clear seeing of impermanence and suffering to arise naturally. Because I'm kind of getting hints of that where I see the clinging to sensations and the repulsion to them very easily and kind of see how that creates this stupid thing of my feelings etc. again emoticon

Also, it's pretty funny that I'm noting intentions, thoughts, everyday things and sensations automatically and then the noting itself emoticon. Just like a few times an hour maybe, I just suddenly see clearly that there's no doer. 
agnostic, modified 1 Month ago.

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Lukas Lassooy:

Because I'm kind of getting hints of that where I see the clinging to sensations and the repulsion to them very easily and kind of see how that creates this stupid thing of my feelings etc. again emoticon

One can also note an aversion to experiencing certain kinds of feelings. Yes in an absolute sense they are just manufactured out of sensations and "not me". But in day-to-day life feelings are about as "me" as it gets (they drive most of our thoughts and behavior). This is not strictly relevant to noting practice, but accepting our feelings becomes more important as practice deepens, so just something to keep in mind.
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Here's a copy of what was here before the update happened.

WOW!
So yesterday, while driving home, I was listening to a podcast episode with Michael Taft & Lock Kelly and listened to his tips on non-dual practice. This is something I used to do a bit as well as listen to a lot of non-dual discussions.
Now, I wanted to do some practice while driving so what I did was I just started resting as awareness, knowing the knowing of all experience, I started doing that and started to sink into this boundless awareness as my "identity"
I was sitting and noticed how what Loch Kelly was talking about as the awareness forgetting itself and noticing it. So I did that and it was as if awareness just zoomed in to whatever experience had a lot of gravity to it. Noticing this and how it happens was quite fun.
Now, at one point I decided to focus on the feeling of my butt on the seat. And then letting go of the image that the mind creates to create the observer, observed duality, instead of vipassanalising it. Now as I did that I felt the usual sense of everything just knowing and experiencing itself without any observer. Of course, my body was this one big sensation in the center changing, but everything else as well. It was like all experience was observing itself, no noting was happening in my mind at this point. Then when I heard the sound of the rear windscreen wiper go, it felt like as if it was "me" in a weird way. 
This was nothing huge, but it was like so effortless to "note" things because everything just "noted" itself all at the same time (at least all things that awareness was aware of (eg. my body, all sounds, sights, when thoughts came up or feelings.) 
Do you guys do non-dual practice? I feel like I should do more, because it's a very quick way to get out of the subject object illusion and see more clearly whatever arises in experience and maybe even to see insight from that experience.
Also, after I stopped meditating, it kind of didn't go away, my body was still in this center of this not infinite, but boundless to be more accurate, me. I wasn't the body, the thoughts, anything like that. I was what was everywhere, and all experience just kind of noted themselves automatically. I was super peaceful and could also notice whenever the awareness got sucked into these specific sensations. 
Now it wasn't like wow, this is non-duality, but I feel like a part of the duality was dissolved during that 1 hour ish. 


These sound like some very cool nondual experiences. These sorts of practice are in the suttas. The Bahiya Sutta talks about "in the seen just the seen etc" which is like sensations being "aware of themselves". Experiencing boundless space and awareness is like soft fifth and sixth jhana territory.
The thing to note is that there is still some clinging and dissatisfaction in these states, due to the degree of identification and passage of time (impermanence). You talk about your body still being in the center of this boundless me. You can sit with that and fade the sense of me or body out and just watch the boundless space, but then you can see that the sense of space is still being fabricated by the mind. Once you drop the fabrication of space then boundless awareness tends to show up. On the one hand you say that experience was observing itself, but on the other you talk about sinking into boundless awareness as an "identity". If you really probe that identity then you can see the sense of being a boundless field of awareness is really just another assumption and fabrication of the mind. Once you drop that then sensations really are just aware of themselves, without any interference from an overlay of all-encompassing awareness. (Which is kind of what you went through. I'm not critiquing your experience, I'm just reflecting on it from the perspective of what I've experienced myself.)
People can get very fascinated with these states and try to deepen and prolong then for long periods of time, sometimes many years, sometimes feeling like this is the "ultimate" state or destination of the search. But the thing to notice is that these states are all impermanent - they vary in intensity, depth and duration - and where there is any clinging to or identification with anything that is impermanent, then there is dissatisfaction as surely as night follows day. If you are interested in getting to the bottom of dissatisfaction, then the only thing left to do is investigate impermanence itself, i.e. states or experience changing over time. What is this thing called time? Is it an external reality or is it also fabricated the mind? From a subjective perspective, the past is just a series of memories which arise in the present and the future is just a series of expectations which also arise in the present. So all we ever really have access to is a constantly changing stream of experience in the present moment. When you can accept that then experience ceases to be unsatisfactory, and when you fight it by clinging to states of the past, present or future then there is dissatisfaction. That's all!
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

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Today's meditation:

So today, I decided to sit for 45 minutes, doing the first meditation Daniel gives in the MCTB section about impermanence. 

This is where you focus on your two index fingers and see how attention shifts between the two as it's supposedly impossible to focus on both at the same time.

This is what I did and it caused a lot of frustration as I experienced when I did this some time ago.

But then (I'm not sure if this is an illusion that the mind created) at a point, I started noticing this BRRRRR sort of shifting that happened as I tried to focus on both at the same time.

It would be something at the frequency of maybe 10-20 times shifting on each finger per second. I don't know if this is right or just an illusion but it's something I noticed once I got a good "hang of it"

What are your thoughts? Have you done similar things?
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

Posts: 22 Join Date: 1/12/21 Recent Posts
Today's sit (pretty interesting)

So today I resolved to sit for 45 minutes and note everything. (I usually am openmindedly not reloving to note by labeling always)

Noting was good and I managed to speed up a lot. Also seeing cleary each notion of watcher pointing attention towards a sensation.

The things I've drilled to my head now: Clear idea of what happens when a sensation in each sense-gate happens, how the dependent arising of image, "attention moving" and the note that comes afterwards.

There was NOTHING experienced that I didn't note (even the noting and the silent notes of the last notings)

Now the BIG thing I want to learn more about:

It seems like I have a main "Self-sensation", Something that causes me to believe in a separate self, which is sight.

I note always when in between sensations and while noting sensations, the attention automatically shifts to seeing (even with eyes closed) and that causes it to seem like there was someone in the head that observes these sensations. It's usually a combination of image and then in between image and sensation itself, seeing. 

This gives me the illusion that I am watching these sensations (me being the consciousness in the head or something). And I strongly suspect that this is because of seeing and being identified with that. Also this somewhat reveals to me why I also "see" with my eyes closed each sensation and this quick image of where it's located as the sensation of "looking" to that sensation happens. 

Any thoughts on this and how to actually destroy the illusion?

What I thought about trying is a meditation where I pick a sensation and observe it, while also observing "seeing", this way I believe I could develop some clarity on the subject as well as gain insight and destroy the illusion of a looker in the head. emoticon Thoughts?
George S, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

Posts: 1255 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
I don't think it needs to be destroyed, it's enough to see it for what it is - a sensation which comes and goes, varies in intensity and causes dissatisfaction (due to wanting to get rid of it).
 
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

Posts: 22 Join Date: 1/12/21 Recent Posts
Appreciate it! That's essentially what I'm doing (seeing it as it is and noting the dissatisfaction or dukkha that arises from it)

Let's see how long it'll take for that to hit hard enough haha emoticon 
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

Posts: 22 Join Date: 1/12/21 Recent Posts
Haven't posted here in a few days now.

Since I have my background in more of a non-dual or inquiry practice, I found Loch Kelly's practices very intriguing and powerful as I explained in my last posts.

Now I bought his books and course and am going through them. It's now so easy for "me" to have no dualistic split as well as practice these techniques to "marinate" in awake awareness as he calls it. 

This is the type of practice that I like, taking something powerful and applying it to the day to day life.

As I previously before starting to note discovered, was that noting created a mind-identification for me. Now this is exactly what happened but on a more subtle level. The more subtle level was the dualistic split aka subject object, even though that was a part of my experience before, by letting go of noting, it's so easy to let go of it.

And this opens up everything for me. emoticon

What do you guys think about this kind of practice and can it deliver the same results as a progressive meditation path via insight?

Direct vs progressive paths?

I can definitely see the danger in a delusional direct path as I've noticed some effort and trying coming from my end that then messes the thing up.
George S, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

Posts: 1255 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
The "results" you get depend on what your goals are! (insight, feeling better, personal/psychological development etc.)

In a way I would say just go with whatever feels right and when it stops working then reassess. (As long as you are aware of the dangers of self-delusion, which it seems you are.)

In my experience direct and progressive approaches both have their uses. Direct can cause a sudden realization or enable you to hang out in some cool/pleasurable mind states where suffering is minimized for a while. Eventually dissatisfaction shows up and then you have to do some kind of "progressive" work to figure out what the problems are and which hindrances you need to work on.

I don't know, there are as many answers to this question as there are practitoners, and this is just my personal opinion. Maybe if you stated your goals here more explicitly then you would get a broader range of viewpoints ...
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 29 Days ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

Posts: 22 Join Date: 1/12/21 Recent Posts
Thanks for the reply George! So essentially "my" "goal" is lasting enlightenment LOL, not afraid to say it. Not glimpses of it (even though they are welcome). And enlightenment in terms of a permanent shift or could call 4th path as well. I see the non-dual practices I've been doing as very good at breaking illusion down and seeing clearly as I can bypass the whole meditator that arises when doing vipassana (that's in the head observing the objects, creating a dualistic split) That is easily bypassable by this "glimpsing" practice that I've been implementing from Loch Kelly. But the question that arises is that are these practices that allow you to see clearly beneficial in making progress in terms of insight as well? 
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George S, modified 29 Days ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

Posts: 1255 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Ok this is just my opinion. The problem is, once you’ve had some basic insights into not-self and nonduality, the big insight is into the nature of time and experience itself – namely that the only thing we can ever access is a constant stream of changing experiences in the present moment. Once you really grok that then concepts like time and progress stop making sense vis-a-vis insight. “Lasting enlightenment” is a tautology because it’s always already here in the present moment – this is it, and this, and this etc. This may or may not be what some people call technical 4th path, but you can have this insight and still have unresolved emotional and psychological issues pointed to by the fetter model, which need to be addressed within some kind of progressive framework. Basically what I’m trying to say is that of the three divisions, insight is timeless whereas morality and concentration are progressive, and it’s probably safest to view the former as independent of the latter.  Again, just my opinion, based on my experience. I'm hoping someone else will chime in as well ...
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Lukas Lassooy, modified 16 Days ago.

RE: Lukas' Practice Log

Posts: 22 Join Date: 1/12/21 Recent Posts
I've been off of here for almost 2 weeks now and in the meantime have gone from no timed sitting practice to changing my practice and talking with both Frank Yang and Kenneth Folk on calls.

Here's what I'm currently doing:

- 45min+ sits with 25-30mins of vipassana body scanning while constructing the body, then rest of the time accessing non-duality and doing self-inquiry, whatever seems to work in that stage. Also doing some walks and doing random inquiry and non-dual stuff.

Cool stuff I've noticed:

Just today, everything started being just consicousness. This means to me that all experience, me, other, the walls, the sounds, the sensations of the body are all the same awareness being aware of itself. It's all the same but with slighly different "flavors" of being. They feel at the same time exactly the same but also different in a slight way. (Just as the wall is not the same as my left pinky)

I've gone for walks and been able to feel exansiveness to everywhere and everything but nothing's been as "big" as how everything feels right now as I'm typing this. Everything is awareness. And all sensations just know themselves.

It's pretty clear to me how the "me" is just the aggregates but the "me" isn't dissolved yet, it's still the same as everything else, just has the sense of "me" in it that's also, when looked at, the same awareness. 

Currently working on progressing the non-dual stuff to gain bigger glimpses as well as developing and insight and samadhi with the body-scanning.

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