Sakadagami? On psychadelics??

Dymuff Shthers, modified 6 Months ago.

Sakadagami? On psychadelics??

Posts: 3 Join Date: 1/31/21 Recent Posts
Thank you for taking the time to read this.

It was back in year 2000 (yup 21 years ago)
I was 18 at the time, first time experimenting with a relatively high dose of a cough Syrup similar to robitussin and edible cannibis. 240mg of dextromethorphan hbr and probably about a joint worth of pot cake.

I felt high energy and high heart rate, about 40 minutes in I put my headphones on and in that moment my brain lit up with feel good chemicals. Felt such a rush i had to take off the headphones immediately and take a gasp of air in. At that moment i thought to myself thats it im not taking the headphones off, turned off the lights covered my eyes with a cloth and dived in to the music.

I went deeper and deeper feeling somuch energy, joy and felt my body association eliminated. Felt like my body had turned in to concrete.
The music was ecstatic and at some point I was observing the music and thoughts being created in my mind.
I recall saying that I was doing so much mental processing.
It was cristal clear, no dreamy fantasy stuff just making jogical judgements and conclusions but from a very elevated point of view. Like looking over my life with a lot of computing power. I remember seeing the mental processing going at like a high bandwidth data connection lot of processing, was fast too. When it suddenly stopped absolutely suddenly probably as a consequence of the processing coming to an end. Like you solved a math problem and now you are aware that you were really absorbed, it felt like a big train passed me by. All those computations was the train and rushing infront of me, or like a river of information just ending. In that moment I had the awareness back and thought WHAT was that? Then i saw my body opening up like a coffin and some 37 things went in and the lid closed. It was visual.
Then a light like a moon appeared somewhere above me(wasn't blinding or anything) and i got the understanding (not like a message) that i will be arriving at a truth outside of this world.
Right after that the stream of consciousness started feeling absolutely heavenly i felt like i had been raised to heaven. The computational heavy work was all over around now. I saw some beings too. Like faint shadows, they communicated saying oh you wont be here for too long.
As they said came down from that pretty fast couldn't even say bye.
Then my eyelids slowly i mean over like 20 minutes slowly opened by them selves. Wheres the cloth i have no idea. The moon light was falling over my body through the lace curtains, and so much of rapture took over. Most beautiful thing ever seen. Around here i felt my conciseness so chilled and was flowing through my chest area downwards that felt really good too.

Im thinking me seeing that i will come to a truth outside this world was path knowledge of stream entry.

Soo needless to say ive been experimenting a little too much for my health at the time.
got really sick probably due to overuse.
Was in hospital for over two weeks.
one night it was getting real bad. I was going through absolute hell. My head was like collapsing inwards.
around the peak i started to see how my wrong choices have brought me to this state. All the knowledge that i thought i had accrued during the first breakthrough started appearing, but now i see them as all wrong, those were the only things i was holding dear, my life was a big mess at the time.
One by one it was all falling apart, i was holding on to dear life by shaking my head. My father was near me shocked and wasnt even able to speak (shouldve called the eoctor otherwise seriously) i wasnt able to hold on any more 
I lifted my head and looked at my body. It has lost a lot of weight. My hand had that cannula and the drip and i felt like nothing was left of my body.
In that moment i gave in(i think to death) i remember my head dropping but cant remember it landing on the pillow.
Became concious within seconds i think from the look of my fathers face.
I asked for sugar, he gave me some jelly beans that was there.
Immediate relief from all the pain. I laughed saying the doctors here need trining i was so out of sugar.
I was cured just like that.
Im thinking that was sakadagami.
Ive tried to move to meditation for 4 years but life had a strong hold on me.
These days i wished for some lsd and very synchronously i have got some.
Did some micro doses (half tabs) to prepare and im thinking of doing a heroic dose of 2 tabs and some weed or hash in the right set and setting next month.
Hoping ill hit anagami or at least have some fun.
​​​​​​​Whatcha think??
Tim Farrington, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Sakadagami? On psychadelics??

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
hello, Dymuff. 

That's one helluva first post on the DharmaOverground, I'll give you that. 

I'm assuming you're sincere. Though if I were going to write a parody of a hellbent stoner grabbing hold of a few floating shards of Buddhist terminology to glamorize his drug experiences, feed his illusions of meaning and superiority, and justify continuing to make a wreck of his life, I don't think I could top your account. I have a lot of sympathy for people who fall into all that, and have done the same things along the way myself, with a variety of substances and terminologies, and a certain amount of home-grown insanity. But that house of cards won't stand.

You said, "I've tried to move to meditation for 4 years but life had a strong hold on me." But you came to a forum for serious meditators. If I were you, I would take the jelly bean miracle that got you out of the hospital last time, and begin to apply it to staying out of the hospital the next time. If you're serious, take another look at that strong hold life has on you, and another look at meditation. Then we would have something to talk about here. I speak only for myself, of course. But you asked, "Whatcha think?" I think that stream entry/sakadagami stuff is horseshit, and that you need to get yourself together before you piss this precious life away on that horseshit.
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Ni Nurta, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Sakadagami? On psychadelics??

Posts: 737 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Any insight about mind you want to share?
I mean things which you experience day to day. Things not from dharma books but things and names you put to these things yourself. Without any descriptions it is hard to say anything.

Also you mention 2nd path... what about 1st?
The experience you describe you had at hospital might fruition but that doesn't mean it is 2nd path.
Dymuff Shthers, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Sakadagami? On psychadelics??

Posts: 3 Join Date: 1/31/21 Recent Posts
Fair question there.
I too have found the results underwhelming.
After waiting for a few years for drastic changes in myself to happen I had given up on it, moved to full time study for 4 years and now pretty stable with worldy affairs with relationships, career, equity, worldly achievements.

With regards to a test it's quite vague and i had completely put this behind me for decades.
Currently I have some free time to re indulge in my little fantasy and what sparked it back to life was some podcasts by Mr. Ingram on psychadelics and enlightenment where he mentioned how if it was the real deal then it would naturally re cycle. And i was like wait wasnt the hospital scene like phase two?
Also i saw somewhere the flow of calm conciousnes that arises after first path as a cold flow, or citta santi , and i remember as it was definitely like a cold stream of water flowing through me for a minute.
in an A and P event, does one get like an understanding that as a result of the process one would come to a superior truth?
A and P descriptions sound more like just fire works but my thing had lots of data being processed and had lots of structure and order and lasted for most of the night, 
I think it's probably horse shit too. 
Insight wise I realise to some extent the non self and would probably stay away from strong negative karma, theres still quite a bit to be desired. 
I've been off any psychedelics for decades, I'll give this lucy a go since i have acquired it, but I'll try to not get caught up in my fantasy too hard.
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Ni Nurta, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Sakadagami? On psychadelics??

Posts: 737 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
At A&P it is normal to have impression of being on brink of superior understanding if not already having it. Of course it is all just an illusion and A&P itself is result of unskillful actions/intentions and so are its result in form of depression that follows.

Actually almost everything about this whole process is unskillful as it begins with wrong motivation. It is possible to get cool effects I will give it that but even then these rather reaffirm wrong motivation instead allowing you to see through it. On the other hand it is not impossible to realize what is actually your enemy that prevents enlightenment.

ps. What I am saying has wider scope of applicability than just your case, just as a hint.
Dymuff Shthers, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Sakadagami? On psychadelics??

Posts: 3 Join Date: 1/31/21 Recent Posts
I appreciate your time and gave it days before thinking of replying.

I think i get what u meant by the unskilful state, theres thinking of a superior attainment, thoughts that follow cant be benificial with either a superiority complex, or hoping for shortcuts or magio which seems like unfair advantage over others.others.
wrong motivation.

With regards to insights into this,
I guess i want to know the truth
E.g. my fb post "Well tomorrow im going to use the true quantum random number generator by https://qrng.anu.edu.au/dice-throw/
Generate a true random number between 0 and 60 not affected by causality
Leave the house for work based in that number between 7am and 8am and escape deterministic outcomes."

Is my search for neither one but the truth.
I like to be able to have joyous meditations as it'll help me and others with difficulties like having a t.v you know. Work was bad but one can rest to the reliability of the late night show
Not really to take the world by storm the next day but to be free.

I found Sam Harrises app called Waking up. What are ypur thoughts on that because i think i only scratched the surface of what you said second.
Are you saying keep awareness and not fall for greed, ignorance, conciet?

​​​​​​​Thanks for your time
George S, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Sakadagami? On psychadelics??

Posts: 1910 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Sounds like a pretty standard drug-fueled A&P followed by dark night, nothing more. I would take Tim's advice. Seriously.
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Chris Marti, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Sakadagami? On psychadelics??

Posts: 4009 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Hoping ill hit anagami or at least have some fun.
​​​​​​​Whatcha think??

I, too, think you should listen to what Tim Farrington said.
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J W, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Sakadagami? On psychadelics??

Posts: 470 Join Date: 2/11/20 Recent Posts
As someone who has some recent experience with combining psychedelics and meditation, I feel that I could maybe help weigh in here.

First of all, stream entry is not so much a single experience as it is a baseline of being, or rather, a collection of insights.  It is entirely possible to have vibrant, meaningful, life changing experiences on psychedelics that you would not have otherwise had, but there is a risk in that, because psychedelics in a way 'force' these profound experiences/glimpses of emptiness/eternalism/etc, you may not have the mental infrastructure to really process that experience.  Lacking that infrastructure leads to... yeah, serious dark night.

I had sort of a similar experience when I was 17 or 18 on LSD where I touched on this experience of the complete sublime, 'God', sort of thing, and also subsequently went a long period of difficulty and struggled with substances.  My theory is that I was trying to 'get back to' this place but didn't really know how to.  Drugs and alcohol is an easy place to turn to when you are craving that experience but don't know how to get to it.

My advice would be to take it slow.  Focus on building your practice day to day, realising that these experiences are all totally possible without psychedelics.  Build that foundation strong to the point where you don't need to be asking 'whatcha think?' and you'll have your answer.