Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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Papa Che Dusko, modified 7 Months ago.

Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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Thanks to shargrol for suggesting this "Look how it's ..." practice. I felt confused and stuck and had no clue how to continue. This practice does seem to put another angle on this whole self awareness spin. 

I tried to make a short video of my practice as there was sadness there and even strong sense of dumbness and mental numbness with preassure in the skull from above weighing in (from one ear to the other, across the head) so thought of recording that so to share with those interested in this approach. However after pressing Rec. the practice took another spin and went more towards absorption.
Still here it is and may this video be of benefit. 
https://youtu.be/pbZ_E5Kci9s
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 7 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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General update; 
I think I started with sitting daily from February 2nd 2021. 

I don't have desire to sit often or long. Once a day 30-45 minutes is a norm and I practice "Look how it's ..." method invented by Kenneth Folk. 

Basically it creates more space and is not as narrow as Noting can be. It also seems more zoomed out, more fuzzy, more defused, more curious, more loose, less hectic than Noting. 

It is also very good as self inquiry. It does create that push pull between the knowing/knower of the experience/experiences. Who is who? Who is where? Where is who? What's that who? emoticon such unspoken inquiry seems to be the undercurrent of this practice. 

So it's a nice balance between noting and self inquiry. 

I do it during my daily walk in the forest for 30 minutes but this one is loose. I do t consider this one the official practice time. Sitting is for that. Off cushion in daily lifeing I'm co tasting this practice whenever I remember. 

It's a good practice. 

When sitting then it usually ends up in strong absorptions which are noticed as "look how it's being absorbed, look how it's relaxing, look how it's comparing, look how it's seeing changes, look how it thinks it's a 3rd Jhana, look how it senses outbreathing being very long and heavy, etc ..." 

However there is also boredom, sadness, sense of loss, dumbness, non clarity, heaviness, stiff neck. 

I have also noticed that "line" between being lost in a scenario and then coming back to awakeness is not as sharp anymore nor is it charged with a guilt trip. It almost rolls over from one state to the next. I think I expressed my self correct here. There is softness to this transition, like waves rolling over gently one after the other. 

Anyways, I will try and update this log but can't promise how often. The main inspiration for starting this log is for it to be of inspiration and benefit to others. 
Emil Jensen, modified 7 Months ago.

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Inspiring how you stick to it even when practice is difficult. That has gotta be the way to go.
Probably good lessons to be learned in sticking out the tough ones emoticon

The "look how its.." is a nice practice. I had some pretty new, interesting and deepening experiences with it as well. And you're right, it does really create this push/pull you talk about. It forces one to see new things that are more subtly a part of the doer or the observer imo.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 7 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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Thanks Emil! emoticon 

Yeah, the whole "being conscious" thing seems like "sticking out the tough one" emoticon 

No wonder Buddha found Pari-nibbana to be the ultimate freedom from Dukkha emoticon emoticon 

Keep on sailing that fragile dhammic raft through this vast ocean of samsara ... 
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J W, modified 7 Months ago.

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Way to go Che, keep it up and keep inspiring! 
Hope we can get back to our jam sessions at some point emoticon
Tim Farrington, modified 7 Months ago.

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Well, Papaji, you're inspiring the fuck out of me! My fragile dhammic raft has splintered, and the splinters went over a waterfall. Haven't gotten to the bottom of the waterfall yet, but all the fish assure me it's fine. But what do fish know? 

I'm with JW, don't let your guitar get too dusty. Hang tough, mate. All the fish send their best.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 7 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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Cheers lads! 
Ah yes, jam sessions emoticon 

Im in a hole where nothing sounds good and I can't play nor can I get any ideas anymore. It's a black hole. Usually that's where new ideas pop out from. 

Let's see what happens. New/better forum could help re-start that music thread as it's too confusing as is right now.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 7 Months ago.

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Had a dream last night. I was back to my old work place in Sweden. That was the place that got me to such stress levels that I snapped. That was the reason behind me embarking on this journey. I started to look for self help as therapy did not seem enough. 

Anyway, it seemed as if I was back working there and the feeling was not nice. The boss was an unfriendly bully. 

This morning I'm getting some memories from war. I dont want to call it flashbacks as I'm calm and they are just unpleasant and memory like (included an officer who was a bully). There is a very hard preassure on the right side of the skull going down into the stiff neck and stiff shoulder blade. 

Lots of Nada sound high pitch and low freq rumble. 

Feelings of sadness pervade the moment. 
Tim Farrington, modified 7 Months ago.

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My father was a Marine, veteran of two wars (korea, as an enlisted man, Vietnam as an officer), and so many of his stories were about the bullies and idiots and ladder-climbing ass-kissers in positions of authority. By the time he starting really telling them, most of his stories had happy endings and a funny punch line, but you could read between the lines and see the tragedy and horror of bad people in authority ruining lives and getting people killed. There is are civilian analogs to this, of course. The night my mother died, in a half-ass post-op facility staffed on the night shift by incompetents who couldn't be bothered, was one long cluster fuck. I was thinking of that this morning in my meditation, her last moments--- like what you described, not a flashback, a calm place--- and I also thought of you, your buddy bleeding out in your arms. It was that kind of moment. It's an acid test of sorts, for meditation: sit with THIS. And it immunizes you from most of the bullshit. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 7 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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I hear you Tim. Thank you. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 7 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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Post disappeared. Will try again. 

Sat a 45er. 

Started without any sense of direction so let it do whatever. It started noting aloud for likely 5 minutes then dropped into silent closed eyes breath awareness. Then shit storm of memories and scenarios poured down. Then started to do aloud the "look at how it's ..." 
shargrol, modified 7 Months ago.

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Good stuff.

One teacher described practice as walking out into the deepest darkest jungle and creating a sitting spot inside a tangle of bushes and front of a small pool of water. Night descends in the jungle and a natural terror and excitement fills the body. Out of the darkness, barely lit by the moon, all sort of creatures emerge. We can sit there, hidden in the bushes, and watch the natural behavior of these creatures. Maybe seeing old creatures we had forgotten about, maybe seeing new creatures that we didn't even know existed. The creatures are all what they are, matters of fact, and only half of the experience. What is also interesting is all the internal creatures that are evoked. So we are watching the pool and we are watching inside. And maybe some of the internal creatures are old ones we had forgoteen about, maybe they are new ideas we never had before. And when the night grows light, we walk out of the jungle and bring our experience with us into normal life, changed by the depth of the experiences.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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Thank you shargrol! 

Quick update; 
on cushion lots of neck stiffness and off cushion more so plus preassure around the brain, just under the skull I would say (I've had these sensations with SSRI medicine back when I used them, now off meds for at least a year or two) However it's so agonizing I took a painkiller.

Will try and squeeze another sit as there is nothing better I can do about all this nasty stuff but sit in it. 

After stopping with nicotine recently I can sense me escaping into the internet a lot and even going after snacks a lot. Craving entertainment and consumerism to numb down what arises.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 7 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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Sat again before dinner time. Planned to sit 45 minutes but sat only 40 as i gave up after almost falling asleep. 

Caught my self doing noting eventhough I planned to only do "look how it's...". 
The noting seemed automatic and without knowing it really. Yeah, almost like a habit. Like tying shoe laces. 

The focus is dull. Numb. Very hard to notice stuff except what it is. Look how it's dull, inability to focus, almost stoned like. Just looking around the room at some stage. Look how it's looking around the room. Look how it's lost in stoned numb dullness. 

Had a few very strong body jerks.

Old memories also including shame. Included those in look how it's ashamed etc ... 

Towards end totally falling asleep. 

Off to make dinner with my family now. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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My son watched the Lego Starwars and wants to be like Darth Vader! ?? emoticon 

I can sense aversion towards waking up in the morning emoticon oh no, not again being conscious! - style. 

It takes 10 minutes for the stiff neck to develop and it just stays there all day long. 

Again having these memories from past kicking in. A bully boy from my childhood this time. Crazy shit with all this past memory firework! 

The nada sound is high pitch and has a low frequency rumble under it. Very heavy in the body (would prefer to sleep non stop). Very long outbreathing and very short inbreathing. 
Diffused image space. 

"This is It" realization is so much more fun in pleasant Nanas me thinks emoticon it becomes "This can't be It" when large Whale shit hits the shores! emoticon 

"Look how it's writing this post" ... 
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Chris Marti, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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Keep in mind, it's only a movie!  emoticon

​​​​​​​
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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It all indeed is emoticon 
Emil Jensen, modified 6 Months ago.

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Dude, Darth Vader is pretty damn cool, not something to worry about. Haven't watched the lego version tho...But think about it.. Natalie Portman.. Padme.. bounchiga bow wow.. Oh and the super cool powers he has, too.
Maybe he's like super evil, but that man has an exceptional taste in intergalactic princesses. And his light saber is...hard af.

Man, your practice sounds tough at the moment. May you get through this really well!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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Dunno man, if I think of Natalie Portman I see a female body going sick, old and dies, rotting away, bones scattered by dogs, dust to dust ... emoticon 

emoticon Practice is life - life is practice. This is just such chapter in this unfolding teatre piece we call Papa emoticon Gotta walk amongst all the beings in the 6 Realms, gotta cycle, at times amongst Gods and at times amongst Hell Beings emoticon All these 6 Realm beings need to awaken in this Univerese we call Papa(ehm, Buddha)-Mind emoticon So many beings trapped in This Mind! 
George S, modified 6 Months ago.

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Reminds me of the missing stanza from The Rime of the Ancient Mariner:

Beings, beings, every where,
That's all there is to see;
Beings, beings, every where,
Nor any one to be.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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Tim Farrington, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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Dunno man, if I think of Natalie Portman I see a female body going sick, old and dies, rotting away, bones scattered by dogs, dust to dust ... emoticon 

 Practice is life - life is practice. This is just such chapter in this unfolding teatre piece we call Papa emoticon Gotta walk amongst all the beings in the 6 Realms, gotta cycle, at times amongst Gods and at times amongst Hell Beings emoticon All these 6 Realm beings need to awaken in this Univerese we call Papa(ehm, Buddha)-Mind emoticon So many beings trapped in This Mind! 


Fuck this shit, it's not a fucking movie. It's real life where the bullies win, the ones we love get sick and age and die and rot away, and the fight in the field of the black birds goes on and on. Look how you grieve this. Look how fucking impossible it is to accept it. There's your fucking koan, man.

My worthless hyperinflated two cents worth in an economy with nothing of value. And fuck your fucking smiley faces too. Do your fucking grief work, right here where acceptance is impossible. That's your fucking practice.
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Chris Marti, modified 6 Months ago.

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Fuck this shit, it's not a fucking movie. It's real life where the bullies win, the ones we love get sick and age and die and rot away, and the fight in the field of the black birds goes on and on. Look how you grieve this. Look how fucking impossible it is to accept it. There's your fucking koan, man.

Did you forget to drink your Ovaltine?
Tim Farrington, modified 6 Months ago.

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Tim: Fuck this shit, it's not a fucking movie. It's real life where the bullies win, the ones we love get sick and age and die and rot away, and the fight in the field of the black birds goes on and on. Look how you grieve this. Look how fucking impossible it is to accept it. There's your fucking koan, man.

Chris Marti: Did you forget to drink your Ovaltine?
lol, Chris, it's too late, man, not even Ovaltine can help me now. Maybe it is time for a med check, though. I was actually hoping Che would take this as song lyrics and lay a wicked guitar riff over them.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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This Tim lad here is a bully! Can we ban him? Linda? 

Woke up in same fashion "eyes open up, oh shit conscious again" wish to remain asleep. 

Few minutes after getting up the stiffness in the right side of neck and shoulder becomes unbearable very agonizing to the point of wanting to take a painkiller. 

However sat for 45 minutes doing "look how it's ..." then strong absorption into 3rd Jhana happened and after it subsided I just went full on noting aloud to the end. There was so much heat in the bottom of the head at the back where it meats the neck. Really hot. 

Now off cushion less stiffness. Will squeeze in another sit later today. 
Tim Farrington, modified 6 Months ago.

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This Tim lad here is a bully! Can we ban him? Linda? 

Ouch. My bad, Che, and I beg your forgiveness. The best thing that can be said of me, as a bully, is that i'm inept at it. It is very difficult to take me seriously, and somehow I manage to never come out on top.

Call it a yellow card? Linda?
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

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emoticon I was just kidding with Tim of course (for those who might think I was serious) 
You see why smilies are so fucking important on these forums emoticon 
Gotta use them! Like heavily emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon 

Just sat for 40 minutes. Decided 45 but got up earlier. Mixture of noting aloud and "look how it's ..." also aloud. 

Feel very sleepy now and relaxed. Nada sound is very high pitch loud and there is some low frequency under it. It's like a multistrand frequency. 

sensing some activity on the left side of brain and skull (towards the forehead). Also rather unpleasant pain in the upper chest right side (it's passes away). 

Lots of memories from my old practice. Comparison with this new practice. Hoping this agonizing body pain will soon pass away. All this was used in "look how it's ..." practice. Image of my son and my partner came about and realization that I can't save them. Sense of sadness and loss. All this included in the Look practice.

Some vanishings some boredom some unpleasantness some pleasantness some itching some stiffness etc ... 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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There is this constant "unease and on-the-move" in the mind-body. Urges to this or that or dunno even. Its just on the move and move and move. One arises and passes for another just to arise and on and on it goes. 

No matter what mind state or mind stage ... there is this unease in all of it.

Sadness around the eyes and in the jaws and throat and in the solar plexus and in the hands and fingers, down the legs ... I guess its pervading this whole body(mind).

Conscious in a lost thought scenario or conscious in awakeness ... its all shit (as in echoing-by-product of becoming and dying)

p.s. just venting out a little ...
George S, modified 6 Months ago.

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Shit is where it's at emoticon

What did shargrol say ... personalized dukkha is personal dukkha.

Samsara is nibbana, if you can just kind of look at it from an ever so slightly different angle ...
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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This George S lad is a bully! Can we ban him? Linda? 

emoticon 
Tim Farrington, modified 6 Months ago.

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Papa Che Dusko
This George S lad is a bully! Can we ban him? Linda? 

emoticon 


Papa Che has started calling out the bullies, and making it impossible for us to bully him! Can we ban him? Linda?
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Chris Marti, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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Papa -

Think of the unbelievable fact that you exist. That you are comprised of atoms that were created by stars. That you are the product of billions of years of process, and are now a part of that wonderful process, and will always be part, live or die, smiling or crying, loving or hateful. Don't let this stupendous moment, this one moment, get away from you. Don't squander it. It's all any of us have. One moment. Just one at a time.

Go hug your child!

​​​​​​​emoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

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Hugs are a constant in our home emoticon My 5 yo told me that if I get urge for nicotine he will give me a hug instead emoticon and I would tell him each time I would as a matter of fact feel huge urge to get tobacco and he would give me a huge hug emoticon Then he would ask "do you feel better now?" I would say "of course and thank you" emoticon 

However emoticon 
Star dust say you emoticon Star Wars sais I emoticon 
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Chris Marti, modified 6 Months ago.

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Good for you!
Sam Gentile, modified 6 Months ago.

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Hey Papa!! We haven't caught up in a while. You said:
 I practice "Look how it's ..." method invented by Kenneth Folk. 

Is that your main practice now? What is it briefly? And you're not noting anymore?
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

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Hi Sam! 

It depends; the practice can be pure freestyle noting and also "look how its (add whatever is happening)" or just one and not the other but I see them now happening even if I only decide to Just do Noting as there is this knowing "Look how its practicing noting" emoticon then "Look how it thinks its wise and cleaver" or ... "Look how its noticing that which is noticing the one doing the noting practice" ... and so on ... 

I mean we only ever have one moment in "real time" and the others are just memories and reactions to it (and also part of This one moment) ... its the dependent origination "unfolding" (concept shifting) and giving that feel of solid time unfolding ... there is This and This and This and all is happening right now ... but then there is "Look how its ... self-conscious knowing that its knowing" and there is this stepping backwards ... zooming out and out and out and .... until I guess there is no place to back off to any longer as there will only be the abyss-ness , or alredy is abyys-ness just we dont realise it and see it as "backing off" (yet another concept)  ... and its likely already freefalling without realising it ... ... emoticon dunno, something like that ... maybe emoticon 

But yes, on days like this one I do miss the practice. Had guests, kids jumping and screaming around all day ... Im out! emoticon Will see to sit tomorrow as I will have more time. However practice is NOT on fire thats for sure emoticon and everything is just layed back a bit, looking, listening, sensing, cognising, feeling, ... 

Hope you are doing well! As Im in some very diffused state of mind and kind of dumb really emoticon I dare not to give any advice to anyone , as you might have noticed emoticon I simply dont know right now anything emoticon but as with everything this too shall pass ... (guessing) ...
Sam Gentile, modified 6 Months ago.

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"look how its (add whatever is happening)
​​​​​​​what does that mean? what does looking involve?
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

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It's looking at the experiencer of this experience. To whom
is this happening? 
Who is this Noter of the Notes Noted emoticon 
Look how it's practicing noting or Look how it thinks it needs to practice concentration instead. 

Looking at the Doer. Looking at the Claimer. Looking at the Ignorer. ... or sense of it all. 

Our sense of self is stitched up fast like a Frankenstein emoticon it's always being recycled into fresh concepts. 
This "Look how it's" practice does seem to objectify both the supposed Doer and the Witness of the doer doing/experiencing. 

It's like sucking juice with two straws emoticon 

Anyway. It's like Noting in a way that practice itself is doing the awakening rather than pondering about it. So it's good to practice. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

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Decided to do walking meditation today during my usual daily 30 minutes brisk walk through our forest. 
Made a short video for you Sam emoticon 
As you hear it's not as intense as Noting can be emoticon 
https://youtu.be/YGBhiNNLczs
Sam Gentile, modified 6 Months ago.

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Thanks for the video. Interresting
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

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The mind seem to rely heavily on memories. As in something being contacted at the sense doors of seeing; like seeing in the forest cut down branches on the ground and there is this immediate memory of me working there and then arising of some aversion, procrastinating like, and then some guilt feeling for not working more on this forest. 
All this, eventhough I have not planned to work on it anymore this year emoticon Crazy stuff! Transcending madness indeed (what's his Tibetan fancy name) 

And this process arises for anything contacting any of the sense doors. And it's happening fast. 

Practicing "look how it's or there is" during walks and trying to find time once a day to sit 45 minutes. Yesterday I started with noting aloud which moved into "look how it's..." then turned into silent sitting with open eyes for the rest of the sit (Jhana absorptions seem taking place). 

Other than that stiff in the body as per usual, high pitch nada sound, irritated to sound (hypersensitive), heavy waking up in the morning. 

I do have a sore throat today. One kid in my sons kindergarten got Covid last week so we all need to get tested today. 
On top of that mother in law died. Funeral this week (unless we have Covid and must stay home). Strange times indeed. 
Tim Farrington, modified 6 Months ago.

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Papa Che, my heart goes out to your wife, and to you and all your family. I know how intense the loss of a parent can be; may the love at the heart of your grief shine through.
George S, modified 6 Months ago.

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My condolences too Papa Che. Very tough times.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

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Thanks lads. Truth be told I do feel sorry for my mother in law living such a cold and emotionally locked in life. My wife had no good relationship with her at all. 
She is feeling sorry but for all they've never had between them. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

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Yesterday had strong pain through the left side of head which is unusual. Today it's back to the right side crushing from above and going down through the brain into the right side of the neck. Very unpleasant. 
Makes it hard to think or hard to focus. 

Sat today 45 minutes then 30 minutes. Both just sitting. Tired of doing stuff. Come what may. 
Tim Farrington, modified 6 Months ago.

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Just sitting.
Tired of doing stuff.
Come what may. 

Digging the turn to zen poetry in this phase.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

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Seems like it's moving that way ... Dogen came by for a cup of Sake. 

​​​​​​​Mu! 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

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Memory. The ability to memorize that which has come to pass. Without this memorizing which seems to happen fast and is stitching up the story of me or story of suffering there would be no suffering. 

There would just be what Is. This bare naked This; in seeing only the seen referring back to no one. 
But there is this constant latching of memory which creates sense of time, sense of suffering going on, sense of me struggling. 
This constant memorizing is basically living in dead knowledge. Living in what has already passed away and memory is creating some parallel "reality". It's always behind but also In This as it can't be anywhere else but Now , however slippery it seems to be. 

This just popped out of this sitting session so thought to write it down. 
George S, modified 6 Months ago.

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Nice :-) The future as well, constantly being fabricated in the Now. And how could This be any different from what it is right Now? ... :-)
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

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Cheers mate!
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Chris Marti, modified 6 Months ago.

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That's an important realization. Congrats.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

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Hi Chris hows things emoticon 

It does make me wonder about how stuff looks like if this memory latching onto passed away stuff is not taking place. Mahamudra maybe? Is that as "close" as it gets? emoticon Dunno. Practice goes on in any case ... May Dukkha lead the way! 
shargrol, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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(Reply to Papa) Yeah, can you imagine how much bandwidth gets freed up by not 100% believing the story after the mind naturally does it's story making thing?
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

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Hi shargrol! Yeah emoticon dunno really ... I mean shit is popping up like pop corn on a movie night ... however, that is what it is ... what can there be but just let it pop-corn until it maybe ... stops popping corn at some stage emoticon ... dunno. I dont think one can do much about it but hold it in awareness and let it "burn out" on its own ... maybe. emoticon 

I do recognise now a certain "curiosity" about what is there when there is no latching memorizing onto passed away phenomena? I will say it again as this does ring to me as that Mahamudra , "gesture" thingy. I might be wrong of course. 

​​​​​​​BTW, thank you for being around! emoticon 
shargrol, modified 6 Months ago.

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Once the popcorn pops, it's already gone. emoticon This is a VERY important thing to notice.

The nature of the self seems to be "a thing" that "holds onto the past" and "tries to fix a future that hasn't even happened yet". Yet, that seems to just create more anxiety in the present and probably doesn't change the future anyway. So what is this self? 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

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I dunno. I could say it's an idea(belief)-urge fuled by the fight-flight jerky-response of our animal brain. In image space it seems to appear like a "rollover" image. Usually goes as several images in succession, all in a certain angle. 
It certainly is a process of sorts heavily leaning onto the ability to memorize and memeory as such. 
It seems to thrive on impressions or maybe these are byproduct. 

Actually I don't know. With this practice of "Look how it's ..." all starts to look quiet absurd at some stage emoticon I mean who is looking and what is being looked at? This looking at This. Or else. 

​​​​​​​Truth is I don't know. 
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Tom Collingwood, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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Hi Papa, popping in and actually lurking outside of my practice log emoticon
On memory, specifically the very very short term. I was thinking about how noting is essentially confirming a memory of the present. The mental formation after the sensation becomes the memory we note. Is the note "dead knowledge" as the next moment has already begun ;)
Edit: I notice this has already been explored here haha, I'll keep tabs on this thread, much metta, Tom
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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Hi Tom! 

Yes! Noting is noting a rapidly passed away memory. There is This sensation arising and passing freely in awareness. This would be direct knowing if there is not this constant latching/memorizing taking place which is an impression of the original sensation long passed away. 

So say, there is this sensation passing called Bip. Gone gone gone. This would be direct knowing in the very sense door without any impression-making-latching into it. 

However we suffer from this constant impression-making-latching onto This moment which would otherwise just be gone gone gone. 
So we do Bip-Bip-Bip instead. And this extra Bip creating will cause an avalanche of dependent origination creating all sorts of Karma stuff emoticon 

Or something like that. 
I think Ingram's Kazzo player analogy explains this well.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 6 Months ago.

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Let me add Tom; 

However let's not get confused here emoticon for now all we have is following the path of bread crumbs through this thick forest of Samsara. So noting these bread crumbs is the way emoticon 
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Tom Collingwood, modified 5 Months ago.

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Oh wow, I just read the Kazoo player analogy, it a very beautiful comparison. I hope to hear that symphony one day emoticon and witness the gone gone gone cessations. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, now, back to the bread crumbs ...
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

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Seem to be seeing the cause and effect in the creation of the story telling mind, or maybe you fine folks call this dependent origination, but in general I see now clearly in many instances during the daily hours how seeing/hearing/tactile/tasting/smelling something can trigger all sorts of emotions and images and memories and how these then in turn also trigger other of the mentioned, etc etc etc ... hallo Samsara you ould motherfucker emoticon 

Any way, Im still doing my daily 30 minutes brisk walk in the forest and while walking doing the "Look how its ..." practice. It IS a very good practice as it encourages Wonder and Curiosity and also objectifies quickly any underlaying "solid-emo-story-belief" which can get under the radar if doing fast noting. 

We do not seem to be equipt to see this fast stitching of the reality hence the need for concentartion which off cushion doesnt really carry water. So we learn to see in better minute detail on the cushion, but off cushion the more zoomed out approach and feel of the "chunks-impressions" seems more usable and here this Wonder attitude really pays off. However it does not have the "tranquility" effect of the Jhanas emoticon so ... still stuff can get annoying and even pissing you off especially within family daily stuff unfolding etc ...
But yeah, even in such there can be more or less wonder-knowing of This.
... I dont know.

​​​​​​​Wish you all, all the best, and keep up the good practice!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

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One more thing to mention for the log;

I let this one simmer for a while before saying anything about it, but my whole body skin feels like ... "not me" I guess is the best describtion. It is a bit "numb". Its almost as "my" coat which is mine but not really "me". If that makes sense. There is lots of activity in and under the skin. Itching, vibrations, insects crawling.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

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Sense doors. 

This sense door of seeing is not really separate from other sense doors. Actually there seem not to be any separate sense doors as such. It all is but a reflection in the mind. If so then what is this mind? 

Or how does sense door of, let's say, seeing become separate and "solid"? Building up of concepts. 

... not sure but this popped out during this brisk walk with Look how it's ... practice. 
George S, modified 5 Months ago.

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What is the mind apart from its reflections? Great question! Some people say that you can only see the mind itself when it is really really still :-)
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

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Some say it can't be seen at all. Apparently not even the Buddha can see it and yet both Nirvana and Samsara arise from it emoticon 

Some say this some say that emoticon 
George S, modified 5 Months ago.

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I'm not suggesting anything PC, but sometimes people can be quite resistant to suggestions emoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

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emoticon 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

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We all know how it is when mind gets absorbed into a scenario spin. Nothing new there. I'm talking any kind of scenario absorption or just absorption. 

Then comes that moment of realizing the mind got lost in this scenario spin. 

In this moment there is something interesting happening; one will say I have awakened to that lost in scenario stuff. So one turns towards something else. Usually body sensation. Now one will say "I am mindful I am awake in this moment". emoticon 
Which in truth is but yet another scenario absorption. 

Once out of the previous story spin, there is another construct happening; the oh so wise and awake me emoticon is constructed and we feel totally ok about it. We get trapped in this again and again. 

Im not saying this is bad as it clearly is part of this path , this practice. But it is also but another scenario construct. It's an idea of I, me and mine. 

And it's in Every fucking moment! Boy oh boy.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

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So much nonsensical noise in the mind. 
It's actually a good thing. Non-clarity, stuff just popping in and out alarmingly fast. Total chaos. 

However each time something makes sense there is "order" and clarity hence the is a construct there. There is an absorption there that seems real in time. 

That non-clarity and utter chaos and mind noise is a good thing as in that there is no absorption it only stuff in awareness burning out without taking a foothold and becoming anything other but a bye bye popped pop corn. Burning out karmic seeds. 

​​​​​​​This non-clarity is a good thing. Nothing to fear. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

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We got a baby boy last night emoticon Oliver emoticon Totally forgot how tiny they are emoticon wow! 
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Pepe, modified 5 Months ago.

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Congratulations Papá! emoticonemoticonemoticon​​​​​​​ 
shargrol, modified 5 Months ago.

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Happy birthday Oliver! Congrats daddy!
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Chris Marti, modified 5 Months ago.

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Congratulations!
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Josef C, modified 5 Months ago.

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Congratulations ! emoticon 
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Tom Collingwood, modified 5 Months ago.

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Congratulations emoticon Very happy for you!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

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Thank you emoticon 
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Louis Joel, modified 5 Months ago.

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Congratulations Papa Che!!! Wishing you and your family the best emoticon 
George S, modified 5 Months ago.

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Congratulations Papa Che emoticon

I hope your lady is ok. Three men in the house now!!

Wishing your family all the best adjusting to the new life. emoticon​​​​​​​
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

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Thank you all emoticon emoticon emoticon 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 4 Months ago.

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Linda's log reminded me to write up an update here; 

Skull preassure was gone for a while and seems back now. This time it's at the back of the head as if a whole back skull is lined up as a cup. It's kind of on its own there glued to the rest of the head. 

Very stiff neck on right side. 

Skin is driving me nuts for a long while now. It feels as if there are insects all over it. I mean it's radical. I even look at any crawly spot to see if it's maybe a tick or else. Really disgusting! 

Focus is defocused and wide. Hard to focus sharp. Hard to speak and find right words. 

Annoyhed easily by my 5 year old son and by my partner. Noise is just too much. 
Desire to be alone. Need for solitude. Don't feel like mixing with the world and other people. 

Low frequency drumming in ears, under the high pitch frequency. 

heavy in the body. Mental talk is about fighting other people's views and believes. It's crazy in the bulb up here emoticon 

Still off nicotine but urge to use it is strong. Comes up as a fast mental image scenario and bodily almost-jerk to go for it. Mixed with an unpleasant panic feeling tone. 

Over snacking. Over eating. Over coffee drinking. At the moment. 

Since we got this baby boy two weeks ago I dont sit. I do try and practice Look how it's while doing my daily 30 minutes walk in the forest. 

I feel it's time to jump start full on freestyle noting again! 

Che out (sinking back down to the bottom of the samsara ocean to keep Tim FF company) 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 4 Months ago.

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I hear ya, man. That low-frequency drumming (for me it has been wobbling of the ear-drum, sort of) sucks. If you can and if you haven't already tried it, it might (or not) be helpful to sort of just forget about yourself for a little while (sounds counterintuitive, perhaps) and take in the entire space around you without putting your active processing of it in the foreground. And if that doesn't feel helpful, feel free to swear about it or whatever you feel like. No need to be nice about it. 

It's great that you take daily forest walks. There are times when that is truly heroic. 

All the best wishes for you and your family! 
George S, modified 4 Months ago.

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For me the second child definitely felt like more than twice the work, proably about four times I would say due to general sleeplessness, noise, chaos, demands etc. It's wonderful of course, but often said in retrospect XD Hang in there and do whatever you need to do to keep putting one foot in front of the other emoticon​​​​​​​
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 4 Months ago.

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Thanks for the kind words you two emoticon 

​​​​​​​
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 4 Months ago.

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Felt very contracted overall yesterday so decided to have 45 min sit and do freestyle noting after my usual 30 minutes forest walk and "look how its ..." active practice. 

The sit was at first very hard to get going so I just used Shinzen's "speak out very loud" the labels and this indeed jump stared the noting. However "Look how its ..." got mixed into the noting stream also and seeing these stories being created from all these tiny labeled arise-passings. 
Look how its ... practicing, look how its ... trying to get absorption, look how its ... looking for familiar parts of the practice, look how its ... going into the habitual way of practicing, look how its ...

Seems Noting and Look how its , go well hand in hand. 

At some stage we seem to see only the large Chariot, then we see all the tiny parts its made of and then comes the time to look at the chariot again as something that indeed is a chariot but with a direct knowledge that this chariot is created out so many causal arise-passings. There is this story unfolding. Can be a very short story or a long one, short emotion or a long one. Yes, made up of fast and short arise-passings but stiched togther by the memory and ... clinging maybe, the urge to do something with it all, ... either push away or desire ... there is this constant selection happening, like vs dislike vs indifferent. 

Back in 2010 I've had what many would say a Wow moment when this thinking mind literaly fell off far far far into the background, still chit chatting and being cleaver. There was this presence that was aware and free and amazed by this experience. Almost like "shit! I always believed that I am this chattering mind and look at this ... it fell off ... but who is this still aware and awake and knowing this?" 
This lasted for that one sit and since then the chattering mind has seated itself back in being "I. me and mine" emoticon I do have this memory of how that Insight was but thats all it is, a memory and knowing how it can be different from the usual chatter mind being incharge. This was in 2010. Now its 2021 so I assume this chatter mind is here to stay. Thats ok. Its not I, me and mine but its doing something in all Thisness. Thats fine. Its time to listen to all the story its telling. I think this could be what Ingram calls Modes (?) which he borrowed from another lad who wrote a book about it ... or something. Ingram used to say "wait out for the Mode to pass" or somthing like that. This seems very much like training in morality by letting stories/modes come up in awareness, do their thing and burn out ... WITHOUT ACTING ON IT , me thinks. So what now ... training in morality, noble speech/silence, metta and the rest ...

What am I trying to say ... not sure ... Im a bit tired, its late here.
Martin, modified 4 Months ago.

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Papa Che Dusko Yes, made up of fast and short arise-passings but stiched togther by the memory and ... clinging maybe, the urge to do something with it all, ... either push away or desire ... there is this constant selection happening, like vs dislike vs indifferent. 

I've been looking at this recently, in sits, and thinking about the stitching together. Memory is the main thing that does that, to be sure, but it seems to me recently, just as a kind of proto-theory that I haven't explored much, that the arising and passing in the mind is lighting fast, but some states in the body, like the visceral sensations that sometimes accompany desire or aversion persist for somewhat longer. If these somatic states continue to provide the same input to a sense door, similar sensations may arise and pass away many times in a given period of time, which can contribute to the stitching together of a seemingly continuous experience. So, in the case of emotions, which start from an event in the mind, but result in physical changes in the body, the body may serve as a kind of reservoir of the emotion, which consequently appears many times in the mind. If you are into electronics, think of a resonant circuit, in which the mind is the capacitor and the body is the inductor. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 4 Months ago.

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Hi Martin. 

What if "body" is just in the "mind"? What if "body" is as much just in the "mind" as a song of a chirping bird is? emoticon 

What if there is nothing else but "mind"? What if there is no "mind" either? 

In that the case where is this capacitor and that inductor? In the mind? Under the mind? Behind the mind? To the left or To the right of the mind? No mind? 

Please ignore my rumblings emoticon I'm feeling funky emoticon 
Martin, modified 4 Months ago.

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They are good ramblings. You are right. Body and mind are both clearly fabrications. I'm looking at parts here, but before I get too excited about seeing "chariot" as a fabrication, it's worth remembering that "wheel" is as much a fabrication as "chariot." I won't even get started on "capacitor" and "inductor" :-) Fun to explore and play with though, so thanks for playing :-)
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 4 Months ago.

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There is nowhere to hide. No stage or state that is better or worse or god forbid "the right state, the right awakeness". 

Just did my daily "look how it's " walking meditation and there was a thinking scenario and realizing that now it was replaced by knowing/aware of it after the fact. This makes the aware of it/awake about it but a self validating thought that call itself "awake" emoticon Scary shit! emoticon There is no place to hide without some form
​​​​​​​of self validation taking place. There is this automatic claiming (clinging) of the experience. It's very sligh. All is Makyo indeed. We are fucked! 
George S, modified 4 Months ago.

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This is promising (not being sarcastic)
George S, modified 4 Months ago.

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Running out of places to hide is a very good description of what this game is about emoticon

If there's nowhere left to hide then there's only one place left that the answer could possibly be hiding ...
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 4 Months ago.

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Yes my man emoticon no place to hide and there is only hiding in and of itself emoticon I think I attained to 4th path emoticon 

Btw, here is my current practice on video for those interested in how this stuff profoundly benefits the practitioner and others emoticon 
​​​​​​​https://youtu.be/HZtuLF2H3SA
George S, modified 4 Months ago.

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Yeah talk of "attaining" 4th is a joke. It's like being proud of realizing that you know how to breathe lol.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 4 Months ago.

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Stuff is solidifyingagain it seems; very stiff neck, jaw stiff, ears high pitch freq. and low drumming under it, insect crawling skin sensations but really making me think "this must be an insect" it's so intense, all over the body/head. Even felt disgust for food. 

Pressure on the top of the head but dull.  

Skin seems like a foreign layer over my body. Like a coat. 

Agrivated, agitated, not able to feel compassion for others as there seems to be focus on "my agony". Desire to be in solitude. 

Still there is no strong pull towards sitting practice. Might even be some resistance to sit. Not sure. I guess my ignorant sorry ars needs to be hammered by Dukkha for long time to give up and just sit with it all. 

Or not. I dunno.

"look how it thinks it's in agony, look how it thinks it needs to practice, look how it feels agrivated, look how it's ..." 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 4 Months ago.

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This strange. 

... can all Nanas arise simultaneously???! 

For a while now it seems as if all Nanas (or at least most) arise together. 

It makes no sense really; there is this agonizing stiffness in neck, shoulders, jaw, lower back, tiredness, very unbearable insect crawling skin sensations, fear inducing flickering in the peripheral vision when eyes open (as if something actually moved), misery, sexual energy and lust is also there, desire to get beyond this agonizing and miserable shit, also sudden sense of beauty (birds chirping or seeing the sky or forest/trees), diffused and detached eye focus, slight preassure in the whole skull, high pitch ear frequency, desire to snack often. 

This is every day through the day. Either they are all there or they cycle very fast.

I only practice "Look how it's " 30 minutes during my daily walk. This does bring into the light the never ending mind stories. 

I guess best is to simply continue with this walking practice but extend the walk to 45 minutes. Will see to make it happen. 
Sam Gentile, modified 4 Months ago.

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Congrats on your 2nd child!!!!

Are you still doing the Look how it's practice? I haven't talked to you in a long time? How is your pratice going?
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 4 Months ago.

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Thanks Sam emoticon Yes, he is 5 weeks old now emoticon Sleep, shit, breast feeding, sleep, shit, breast feeding, sleep ... emoticon

Yes, every day Im doing my 30 minutes fast walk for my recent high blood preassure and I do "Look how its ..." thorughout the entire walk. I do this aloud (but quiet) in my private little forest , in hope neighbors don't hear me talking to myself emoticon emoticon 

My practice is ... well, this "Look how its ..." technique sure exposes the "stories mind tells, or the believes". It basically takes the "floor from bellow your feet each time you think "Ah I've got this" , then it goes "Look how it thinks, it got this" emoticon emoticon Again, not me, not mine, not I. So there is this backing off, and backing off, and backing off and ... looping of the backing off ... and all is anyway just THIS and all is already tipped over by something before it and ... Look how its ... emoticon 

I do feel as of a day or two ago a bit of change in the attitude ... or lack of control. There is just stuff flicking, and popping in and out. I aslo seems to be finding hard to remember stuff I decided to do a second ago. Also finding hard to find the right words when talking to others (even now while writing). 

When I try to think about something there is just these incomplete thoughts not having much to do with each other. So its hard to make sense of it, so I just let it all be as is. Flickering and popping in and out.

So all good unless the body agony is a bit overboard and my family is being annoying can create some bolts and tunder (words? ) However Im tryng to "Look how its " in these situations even in "Look how it thinks its neck is very stuff" and man, it seems the stiffness is lessening when looked at it that way. However it return very fast emoticon 

Well, here Im rabbling. I guess thanks for dropping by my not so disciplined log emoticon 
​​​​​​​Thank you Sam! 
Sam Gentile, modified 4 Months ago.

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Wow, 5 weeks old! Getting any sleep? emoticon

I like the description of your practice and it seems like you are gettinmg goood results out of it. Keep practicing!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 4 Months ago.

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Similar pattern seems to go through the day; usually starting in the morning and into the day with huge amounts stiffness of right neck, right shoulder and right shoulder blade. Lower back pain too. This bodily agony sure effects the emotions too. Very edgy and tolerance to stress is decreased. 

Then energy just comes up and there is sexual lust and motivation to do stuff around the house. Then towards the end of the day all skin goes hey wire and feels like a swarm of insects is crowding and biting. It's intense (yes I do shower and yes I cut my beard and hair short especially now with this cycle showing off like this. Doesn't help). Also low frequency drumming in ears. 

Still only practicing "look how it's ..." during my 30 minutes fast walking. Of course during the day too but not in a active practice-like format. 

Today during the meditation-walk towards the end of it, an idea came to mind; why are you so obsessed with yourself? What about all the other beings struggling and suffering? So I tried sending and receiving but quickly realized that sending Metta was ok but receiving Suffering of others not so much. Hm ... 
There was sadness about this. There was shame about this. There was loss about this. There was disappointment about this. 

​​​​​​​
Tim Farrington, modified 4 Months ago.

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What about all the other beings struggling and suffering? So I tried sending and receiving but quickly realized that sending Metta was ok but receiving Suffering of others not so much. Hm ... 
There was sadness about this. There was shame about this. There was loss about this. There was disappointment about this. 


I usually think that sending and receiving, the tonglen practice of breathing in the suffering of others and breathing out metta, is sort of inevitable, in its way, in the long run. Like, what else is there to do? We are entwined with the existence of others, from family to friends, to the vastness of all humans, all creatures, the planet herself. Heaven is meaningless as long as others burn in hell, and so we breathe in hell and breathe out heaven. We'll be breathing in that suffering as long as it goes on, it's the air of samsara. What the practice gives us, I think, is the whole cycle of the path in every round of breath: acknowledging the pervasively shitty situation, affirming the inconceivable liberation. Acknowledging the overwhelming evidence for despair, affirming the unquenchable commitment to hope. The sadness and shame and loss and disappointment in the face of the truly not-okay-ness of what we breathe in comes with the territory (as you well know). It's never just yours. And whatever you breathe out of okayness is not really yours either. But shit, we've got to do something on our fast walks, as long as we're breathing! Look how it's happening anyway, yeah? You could just as well be saying this to me. 
shargrol, modified 4 Months ago.

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There is a version of tonglen that I highly recommend:

1. Find some aspect of your present experience that is lacking, is difficult, is suffering, etc.
2. Feel that experience. It can help to name it.
3. State the intention: "if there are any other beings out there that are experiencing this and having too much difficulty with it, may I experience it for them. May their experience come to me. May I fully experience it with no resistance. May they find relief."
4. Feel that experience again. Soak in it, dwell in it. Also imagine the joy the other feels being free of it and how they can gain perspective/insight because they now aren't overwhelmed by it. Go back and forth between you and other.
5. After a period of time that feels right, drop the intention and say, "May all beings be free from suffering, may all beings awaken, may all beings be happy."

And then repeat the whole cycle again when it feels right.

The benefit of this practice is you are not taking on anything new, you're experiencing what you are already experiencing, but you are taking on what you are already experiencing with a much deeper intention that goes beyond yourself.  And it ends with a reaffirmation that we're all worthy of peace, awakening, and happiness.

Give it a try. And feel free to disregard if it doesn't seem like a good match.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

Posts: 2112 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Tried it today during the 30 minutes walk. Also decided to do a 45 minutes sit doing this same Tonglen practice. 

I find it gets a bit messy with trying to remember the words behind the intention emoticon but I guess practice makes perfect emoticon 

Will give into this practice and see what it brings about. 

​​​​​​​Thank you! 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: Look how it’s ... - Papa Log

Posts: 2112 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Thank you Tim and Shargrol! I will take in what you said and let it brew. 

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