'Is There Magic In The Dharma?' - Daniel Ingram & Dhammarato - GV Podcast

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Steve James, modified 4 Months ago.

'Is There Magic In The Dharma?' - Daniel Ingram & Dhammarato - GV Podcast

Posts: 103 Join Date: 2/15/19 Recent Posts
New episode with Daniel Ingram and Dhammarato dialoguing on the question ‘Is there magic in the Dharma?’.

From the show notes:
Daniel Ingram is a contemporary Buddhist author who controversially declared himself to be an Arhat, one of the highest spiritual attainments in Buddhism, challenging cultural taboos against disclosing one’s enlightenment.

Dhammarato is a lineage teacher in the Thai Buddhist tradition, a student of the famous meditation master Bikkhu Buddhadasa, and is known for his unique, 1-1 teaching style conducted over Skype.

In this episode Daniel and Dhammarato discuss the pros and cons of magical experiences, how to develop siddhis and their dangers, and whether these topics should even be discussed in public.

They debate the differences between their own teaching approaches, as well as the approaches of the Burmese and Thai meditation methods, and the importance of a close relationship with a teacher.

Daniel and Dhammarato also acknowledge each other, decrypt the ways in which they signal recognition of others’ spiritual attainments, and explain how to recognise enlightened teachers.



https://www.guruviking.com/p83-is-there-magic-in-the-dharma-daniel-ingram-dhammarato/

Audio version of this podcast also available on iTunes and Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.



Topics Include:
0:00 - Intro
1:44 - Structure of the episode
2:09 - Daniel’s opening address
12:34 - Dhammarato’s opening address
26:56 - The pros and cons of magical experiences
35:15 - Anapanasati and developing sukkha
38:39 - Slow and hard path or fast and easy path?
43:30 - Different paths to enlightenment
48:41 - Does magic exist?
52:56 - Is there any value in cultivating siddhis?
58:26 - Should we talk about siddhis and magic?
1:12:43 - Moving from Right Dhamma to Supramundane Dhamma
1:18:50 - Misconceptions about the Mahasi method
1:23:30 - How to recognise Noble Ones and the dangers of siddhis
1:36:32 - The cat is out of the bag
1:39:50 - Mage vs sage
1:47:26 - Close relationship with a teacher
1:52:41 - Mass teaching vs 1-1 teaching
1:55:55 - A mature spiritual culture and the dynamics of Asian temples
2:19:24 - Daniel and Dhammarato recognise each other
2:22:04 - Ajahn Po the arhat
2:30:00 - Gender equality in the sangha and Thai culture
2:44:48 - Dhammarato’s closing address
2:47:06 - Daniel’s closing address


Daniel Ingram Episode Playlist
- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlkzlKFgdkny_MJSecHyvKHPpvxTskBAC

Dhammarato Episode Playlist
- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlkzlKFgdknyGISEfksirYaYpsrXdf8va
This is really interesting.  I started taking the dharma seriously via MCTB & followed instructions along those lines for 2 years before meeting Dhammarato, then primarily following his instructions for 2 years.  I consider both Daniel & Dhammarato formative teachers with continued heavy influence on my path.  I spent several years trying to reconcile these 2 sets of teachings & never thought I'd see such a discussion recorded!  They are both better at bridging the seeming gaps between them than I was/am in my own head, lol.  I guess that's why I'm the student.
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Steve James, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: 'Is There Magic In The Dharma?' - Daniel Ingram & Dhammarato - GV Podca

Posts: 103 Join Date: 2/15/19 Recent Posts
Thanks Noah!<br /><br />It was such a blast for me too to see Daniel and Dhammarato in such collegial and rigorous dialogue :-)
Where can I find Dhammarato's basic meditation instructions? I got interested when I heard him saying that practitioner should replace unwholesome thoughts with wholesome ones during the anapanasati.


I am very much overwhelmed by the hindrance of doubt, and this is the first time I hear the advice to replace the thought, instead of just being aware of it.
In general, the instruction is to watch yourself & situations (basic mindfulness) but then add in joy to that mindfulness (gladdening the mind in whatever way works best for you).  The overall purpose & bent of this looking is to determine whether anything is worthy of attachment or if it is all just in flux & unreliable.  Then use discernment to determine what thoughts, emotions & behaviors are in line with that mindfulness & joy (which ones perpetuate it) & also in line with your path through life (which ones cause no harm to self or others & work well with circumstances).  In this discernment, there is a particular emphasis on noticing the "rules" we set up for ourselves (from childhood , from society, from jobs, from relationships etc) & consciously divesting from those rules so as to honestly evaluate which inner & outer behaviors are most appropriate.  When these behaviors are seen to be unskillful, the instruction is to joyfully interrupt them whenever your mindfulness catches them . This interruption can take many forms & you can experiment with how.  Then over time as you perpetuate the skillful, stop the unskillful, all with joyful mindfulness, there is a gradual alignment of the mind-body system & a deepening sense of harmony with life.  As this matures, the peak levels of its functioning are the stages of awakening.

to clarify - Dhammarato sees formal sitting meditation as a useful tool in the overall approach of accomplishing the above. But it doesn't have the same centrality as in other systems.  In general, the emphasis with formal sitting would be on watching the breath to get into a 1st jhana which may be low to mid depth of absorption- a state which can be leveraged for the continuous joyful mindfulness described above.
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Ian Pitchford, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: 'Is There Magic In The Dharma?' - Daniel Ingram & Dhammarato - GV Podca

Posts: 5 Join Date: 2/10/20 Recent Posts
You're just spoiling us now Steve. Delightful.
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Steve James, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: 'Is There Magic In The Dharma?' - Daniel Ingram & Dhammarato - GV Podca

Posts: 103 Join Date: 2/15/19 Recent Posts
Ian Pitchford
You're just spoiling us now Steve. Delightful.


Haha! :-)
Sam Gentile, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: 'Is There Magic In The Dharma?' - Daniel Ingram & Dhammarato - GV Podca

Posts: 1259 Join Date: 5/4/20 Recent Posts
Fantastic Steve!
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Steve James, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: 'Is There Magic In The Dharma?' - Daniel Ingram & Dhammarato - GV Podca

Posts: 103 Join Date: 2/15/19 Recent Posts
Thanks Sam!
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Not two, not one, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: 'Is There Magic In The Dharma?' - Daniel Ingram & Dhammarato - GV Podca

Posts: 931 Join Date: 7/13/17 Recent Posts
What a treat.  Thanks again Steve.  And also to Daniel and Dhammarato for a wonderful discussion. 

Heh - and it doesn't matter how much you ask about attainments, you can't get a straight answer!  But you know the answer anyway.  :-)
I started skyping with Dhammarato a couple years ago and around that same time he told me that he and Daniel had met a couple times for discussion. All I could think was "If only I be a fly on the wall."

These are my two most influential teachers and to resonate with what Noah said above, I used to dwell somewhat uncomfortably on the differences between their teachings / influences. Looking back, I am pleased that I discovered them in the order that I did. They were both what I needed when I discovered each of them and I don't think I would have been able to benefit from Dhammarato the way I have without the heavy demolition insight work directed by MCTB and Mahasi retreats.
 
Thanks Steve! This one was special.
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Niels Lyngsø, modified 4 Months ago.

RE: 'Is There Magic In The Dharma?' - Daniel Ingram & Dhammarato - GV Podca

Posts: 325 Join Date: 11/15/19 Recent Posts
Thank you, Steve, this was really awesome! Very inspiring, I really learned some dharma from this. Both from the content and from the joyous and civilized way of interacting these two gentlemen had. AND, not the least, I added the phrase "monk hunting" to my vocabulary emoticon

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