Inner fire/Tummo

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Oatmilk, modified 20 Days ago.

Inner fire/Tummo

Posts: 95 Join Date: 7/30/20 Recent Posts
Hey there, 

one month ago, after experiencing really intense gut contractions for a month something opened up. The first few day's after the release I felt very good, life energy flew through my body and the experience itself was very wide and lovely. Ever since my health decreased drastically and i feel a constant heat flowing thourgh my body, I often times start sweating and my metabolism seems to be on another level. In the first weeks following, I experienced a lot of unpleasant psychological symptoms leaving me quite dysfunctional. The energy started moving from the belly into the heart which felt really unpleasant. Now it seems to be stuck in my thorat and I really wonder what's going on. 
If anyone here has experience with Tummo, please let me know!

​​​​​​​Thanks muchemoticon 
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Noah D, modified 20 Days ago.

RE: Inner fire/Tummo

Posts: 1124 Join Date: 9/1/16 Recent Posts
I am no expert. I have received some instruction from a handful of teachers.  Based on the short description above, this does not sound like tummo, but instead the related issue of prana/lung disturbance, perhaps.  If I were in your position I would seek out the guidance of a qualified qigong teacher, due to the emphasis on grounding in that tradition & the understanding on these types of issues.  Also I would go down the more basic checklist of diet, exercise, sleep , socializing, to make sure I was being generally healthy.  Also try to see if the progress of insight is a helpful reference point for what you may be experiencing.

Some more notes - tummo (candali) is related but not the same as kundalini & your experience description may sound more like the latter, in the sense of an uncontrolled force causing various bodily side effects & generally moving up the body.  Tummo is a highly controlled & cultivated phenomenon that is first developed as a rich , dense, heat, deep within the tissues of the abdomen & then slowly allowed to rise over time as the energy body is trained to allow for this flow.  Some texts lists things in a more pithy manner but extended commentary typically reveals this gradual, foundation -building approach.  In other words, energy phenomena that are negative & out of control would not fall under the label of tummo.
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Oatmilk, modified 20 Days ago.

RE: Inner fire/Tummo

Posts: 95 Join Date: 7/30/20 Recent Posts
Hey Noah, thank you for the reply! 
Unfortunately I am not aware of any Qi Gong teachers, do you might some recommendations? I am very aware of the PoI and I went through a bunch of cycles but this feels totaly different and I could not recall any of the insight stages, sure there are some similarities but the intensity of what happened is definetely different from the "standard" progression through the Nanas. Unfortunately I am not really able to socialize much or work out. Thank you very much for your detailed description of what this could might be! 
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Noah D, modified 20 Days ago.

RE: Inner fire/Tummo

Posts: 1124 Join Date: 9/1/16 Recent Posts
I'm not 100%, I don't know any personally. I hear good things about Damo Mitchell.
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Oatmilk, modified 20 Days ago.

RE: Inner fire/Tummo

Posts: 95 Join Date: 7/30/20 Recent Posts
I reached out to Damo Mitchell but unfortunately he didn't get back to me. I send you an email yesterday at meditatingtogive@gmail.com 
Thanks much, Noah! 
shargrol, modified 20 Days ago.

RE: Inner fire/Tummo

Posts: 1529 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
Just a piece of advice to look at both the body and mind when these things happen.

Could you also say more about what seemed to trigger those sensations? (Practice methods, intensity of practice, life situations, diet, sleep.)

​​​​​​​And could you say more about the emotions and thoughts associated with those sensations? It is likely that the psychological material that arose is just as important as the physical sensations.
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Oatmilk, modified 20 Days ago.

RE: Inner fire/Tummo

Posts: 95 Join Date: 7/30/20 Recent Posts
Hey Shargrol,
I had a very bad Kundalini type of experience last year in Februray, it left me pretty disturbed. Nightmares, being unable to differentiate between dreaming and being awake at times, DP/DR and very bad headaches. In April of last year this changed and I felt better for a while. The energy started moving from the head thorugh the chest into the gut over the course of 3 months. At one point it disappeared and I left with an experience which was drained of life. During this time I practiced with a teacher but I was unable to do more than 10 minutes of formal meditation practice. At one point I was adviced to switch to Qi Gong, I did so but in December I was so miserable that I thought I would hospitalize myself. I stopped all practices and felt better for 1 or 2 weeks or so before the gut contractions started to emerge - it was really unpleasant. 
After the contractions opened up my attention became so wide and diffuse that I got headaches from looking at single objects. One week later I felt as if all personal will was sucked out of me and I sometimes just sad on by bad for hours doing nothing. During some nights, when I wanted to sleep I saw visual images in form of dead bodies or other unpleasant stuff like flashing lights. I was unable to feel anything and could not even cry for about a month or so until recently. My story is unfortunately a bit too long to go further into detail. So far I saw a Cranio Sacral Therapist and did some Somatic experiencing, which helped a bit. 
Thanks much!
shargrol, modified 20 Days ago.

RE: Inner fire/Tummo

Posts: 1529 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
Usually the story is important, the story of the original kundalini experience, the story of being left disturbed, the story of the nightmares, the story of being miserable, etc. My hunch is your body experiences have a greater psychological dimension than meditation dimension, so that would be the modality that I would emphasize. Again, just a hunch.
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Oatmilk, modified 20 Days ago.

RE: Inner fire/Tummo

Posts: 95 Join Date: 7/30/20 Recent Posts
Thanks Shargrol, 
I'll give it a try and try to summerize what has happened. 
So in Februaruy of last year I practiced for around 4 hours every day and I put a strong emphasis on off cushion mindfulness as well. During that time I also went on retreats and tried to implement a lot of weekend retreats as well. 
During my second mediation session that day vibrations were coming in really fast as usual. I practiced Shamata as outlined in TMI around stage 7-8 as well as Metta and Mahasi Noting. At the end of the sit my body started shaking involuntarily. Some would might say that this is the Arising and Passing away but I'd say that this does not match up with my experience since I went through a lot of insight cycles during the time and I was familiar with the Kriya's, they have a different kind of flavor to it but I am open to opinions here. 
The shaking at the end of the sit was really intense and after flying through my entire room for almost a minute I decided to stop it. The intensity kind of shocked me and so I went for a walk. 20 minutes after the session it felt like the ground was pulled away from my feet and I started dissolving into nothingness, which was really unpleasant back then. The following 1-2 months I was unable to sleep more than 4-5 hours a day. During the evenings I started to become really depersonalized and as soon as I was approaching sleep I started to sense acoustic hallucinations, though these only occured during the hypnagocic phase when one approaches sleep. I also suffered from really intense headaches. In April the headaches sort of opened up and I felt better for a while. 
2 months later I started working with a new teacher. At the time I was able to mediate around 30 minutes a day and his instructions somehow made the energy moving into the chest are. That was around August/September. As the energy was in the chest, my chest started vibrating and I experienced a lot of anxiety. It was around that time that my entire experience started to be empty of any life energy. As the energy kept moving into the gut, where it caused contractions as well, the emotional theme was anger and disgust, lots of it. It was around November when my legs got shaky and the energy movment disappeared. At the time I practiced 5-10 minutes of Qi Gong. Towards the end of December I stopped all spiritual practice because it got too unpleasant, I felt like being at the edge of insanity. After that my body sort of collapsed and I became very fatigue for 2 weeks. Then it sort of got better in a sense that I was more functional, that was just for a short period of time though and then the gut pain started to arise. The gut pain stayed with me for a few weeks before it broke open at the end of February this year. At first I felt alive again and had some good day's but that faded as well and I felt even worse. After the contractions opened up my attention became so wide and diffuse that I got headaches from looking at single objects. One week later I felt as if all personal will was sucked out of me and I sometimes just sad on by bad for hours doing nothing. During some nights, when I wanted to sleep I saw visual images in form of dead bodies or other unpleasant stuff like flashing lights. I was unable to feel anything and could not even cry for about a month or so until recently. My memory got very bad as well. My sleep was disturbed in a sense that I felt generelly very uncomfortable in my own experience and when I woke up in the morning I usualy got quite scared, or felt at least very alienated. I had a few occassions which were really minor in which I got a bit paranoid as well. At the moment my gut feels very unwell, then there are those heat sensations arising and at times I feel very over stimulated.
shargrol, modified 20 Days ago.

RE: Inner fire/Tummo

Posts: 1529 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
 I'm sorry, I wasn't clear about what I was asking... here's some more direct questions:

What was your normal routine outside of practice before february; were you working or a student or??? Were you maintaining your normal routine prior to February? How was life? What is the story for how your life was before February of last year?

So in Februaruy of last year I practiced for around 4 hours every day and I put a strong emphasis on off cushion mindfulness as well. During that time I also went on retreats and tried to implement a lot of weekend retreats as well.

This is unclear. Were you practicing 4 hours daily in just february or previously as well? What was your normal daily practice before february? What were your previous experiences of going on retreat? What were the last two or three weekend retreats like?

During my second mediation session that day vibrations were coming in really fast as usual. I practiced Shamata as outlined in TMI around stage 7-8 as well as Metta and Mahasi Noting.

Could you be more specific on what your actual practice was? How would you do all of these methods? What would a normal day of practice look like? What would a normal sit be like?

At the end of the sit my body started shaking involuntarily. Some would might say that this is the Arising and Passing away but I'd say that this does not match up with my experience since I went through a lot of insight cycles during the time and I was familiar with the Kriya's, they have a different kind of flavor to it but I am open to opinions here. The shaking at the end of the sit was really intense and after flying through my entire room for almost a minute I decided to stop it. The intensity kind of shocked me and so I went for a walk. 20 minutes after the session it felt like the ground was pulled away from my feet and I started dissolving into nothingness, which was really unpleasant back then.

Sounds like the shakes and numbness that happen due to a traumatic experience. Too much intensity. It can also happen when someone has had past, undigested trauma and the intensity of the sit re-triggers the old trauma. Is something like that possible? Do you think you have past traumas that haven't been healed?

What story did you have for what you were going through at this time?

The following 1-2 months I was unable to sleep more than 4-5 hours a day. During the evenings I started to become really depersonalized and as soon as I was approaching sleep I started to sense acoustic hallucinations, though these only occured during the hypnagocic phase when one approaches sleep. I also suffered from really intense headaches. In April the headaches sort of opened up and I felt better for a while.

Sounds like some sort of lingering trauma or persistent anxiety and lots of poor quality sleep. And it's common to have waking dreams/hallucinations if sleep quality is bad for a long period. Did anything help reduce the headache symptoms? Were you capable of doing your normal daily routine (work/student/etc.) during this time? Were you also practicing during this time? What thoughts and emotions were you feeling during this time? What story did you have for what you were going through at this time?

2 months later I started working with a new teacher.

Were you working with a teacher previously?

At the time I was able to mediate around 30 minutes a day and his instructions somehow made the energy moving into the chest are.

What method of practice were you doing. How often were you practicing; we're you sitting for 30 minutes daily? Did only some days last 30 minutes?

That was around August/September. As the energy was in the chest, my chest started vibrating and I experienced a lot of anxiety.

What was the anxiety story? What emotions and thoughts were you having that made you feel anxious?

It was around that time that my entire experience started to be empty of any life energy.

What emotions and thoughts made you feel empty of life energy? What was your explaination for why you were empty of life energy?

As the energy kept moving into the gut, where it caused contractions as well, the emotional theme was anger and disgust, lots of it.

What was the anger and disgust story? To who or what was the anger or disgust directed? What kinds of thoughts were going through your mind?

It was around November when my legs got shaky and the energy movment disappeared. At the time I practiced 5-10 minutes of Qi Gong. Towards the end of December I stopped all spiritual practice because it got too unpleasant, I felt like being at the edge of insanity. After that my body sort of collapsed and I became very fatigue for 2 weeks.

What were you doing with your time during this phase? Were you able to get through a normal day? What kind of things did you do while you were recovering?

Then it sort of got better in a sense that I was more functional, that was just for a short period of time though and then the gut pain started to arise. The gut pain stayed with me for a few weeks before it broke open at the end of February this year. At first I felt alive again and had some good day's but that faded as well and I felt even worse. After the contractions opened up my attention became so wide and diffuse that I got headaches from looking at single objects. One week later I felt as if all personal will was sucked out of me and I sometimes just sad on by bad for hours doing nothing.

Sounds like you were really worn out, depressed, and exhausted. Were you getting any help at this time? What story did you have for this time? What sort of emotions did you have? What sort of thoughts were going through your mind at this time?

During some nights, when I wanted to sleep I saw visual images in form of dead bodies or other unpleasant stuff like flashing lights. I was unable to feel anything and could not even cry for about a month or so until recently. My memory got very bad as well. My sleep was disturbed in a sense that I felt generelly very uncomfortable in my own experience and when I woke up in the morning I usualy got quite scared, or felt at least very alienated. I had a few occassions which were really minor in which I got a bit paranoid as well. At the moment my gut feels very unwell, then there are those heat sensations arising and at times I feel very over stimulated.

For these sorts of things to be going on so long after reducing meditation, it definitely makes me think you have some psychological material to work through. There is nothing wrong with that. Many many many people who do meditation also realize they have psychological work to do. Seems like your are unable to relax and are constantly hyper aware and over stimulated. That's usually associated with post traumatic stress disorder or other psychological difficulties. Do you agree?

Have you tried discussing this with someone with psychological training?

There are some great ideas for healing here: https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/wiki/health-and-balance

There are also sections on reddit likehttps://www.reddit.com/r/mentalhealth/
which is a safe place to discuss, vent, support, and share information about mental health, illness, and wellness. The sidebar also lists many other more specific subreddits that you may find helpful.

Hope this extra questions and ideas are helpful to you and will help you figure out what to do next.
 
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Oatmilk, modified 20 Days ago.

RE: Inner fire/Tummo

Posts: 95 Join Date: 7/30/20 Recent Posts
Thank you very much for this. If you don't mind I'd like to send you a private message, is this possible? 
Otherwise I would reflect on those questions. 
shargrol, modified 20 Days ago.

RE: Inner fire/Tummo

Posts: 1529 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
Sending a message used to be possible on this website... give it a try. I'm also user /u/shargrol over on reddit, if that helps.
n0nick, modified 15 Days ago.

RE: Inner fire/Tummo

Posts: 17 Join Date: 6/12/20 Recent Posts
I am pretty much going through similar experiences from  kundalini awakening from too much enquiry and I have spent the last few years researching  different spiritual traditions and their spiritual cultivation methods to figure out  and how they play a part in the bigger picture. From the tantric and daoist point of energy blockages or karma obstructs the flow of prana or qi in the channels and chakras of the energy body and they spend a lot of time doing preparatory practices like qi gong, tai chi, hatha yoga, prostations, trul khor, mantras, visualizations etc  to prepare the physical body and unblock qi or prana flow by dissolving  blockages in the energy  body. Goneka body scanning vipassana also does the same thing which is similar to daoist dissolving method. When kundalini awakens in a  unprepared nervous system energy tries to break through blockages  in the nervous system. Or call it karmic purification if you like. Hence all the sensations and dramatic energetic symptoms.the whole subconscious and unconscious with repressed emotions trauma etc coming to consiousness to be processed. The whole thing is fucking brutal.Its prana or qi trying to flow through the nervous system unobstructed. I have taken up the practice of hatha yoga and it is seems to be helping. Tai chi is also excelent and with its extra emphasis of grounding. Find a good teacher and start a daily practice. The dramatic energetic stuff will die down over time. 
George S, modified 15 Days ago.

RE: Inner fire/Tummo

Posts: 1520 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
I agree. I've also found consciously working through the trauma (figuring out the story) to be really helpful as well. The conscious mind has a tendency (defense mechanism) to downplay the significance of events that caused trauma, or even discount them altogether. 

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