George - practice log 2

george, modified 20 Days ago.

George - practice log 2

Posts: 93 Join Date: 9/8/20 Recent Posts
Hey everyone. Thought I'd start a new log as the other one is pretty long. 
I had a week off practice to just relax and enjoy life. I'm back at it today. I did a 30 min sit then a 20 min (fell asleep) & then sat for 45 min just then.
I politely asked everyone in the house for a bit of silence. Now I usually would note emotions but I thought I don't realllly need to know what's happening so I just wanted to go into the body and feel stuff without noting what it is. BUT I started to zone out, Not much was coming up either so I started to note everything (sounds, sensensations, itches & lots of them) but I couldn't really note for a long period. This dullness and sleepiness I believe is a defence from the painful stuff, I'll keep sitting this week. Thanks 
George S, modified 20 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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george
This dullness and sleepiness I believe is a defence from the painful stuff​​​​​​​

That's a good insight.
george, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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How do you make decisions when everything is so impermanenant? I'm at work off the cushion. Doubt is coming up this morning.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 19 Days ago.

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"so I started to note everything (sounds, sensensations, itches & lots of them) but I couldn't really note for a long period. "

Nice! When energy is too low sleepiness will kick in. Yes could be dependent on some trauma or karma shit but still this is a hindrance. 

Noting Aloud is a very fast way out of such states. Both Kenneth Folk and Shinzen recommend it. It's more interesting to hear oneself speak out those labels. 

I even go further by having open eyes fixed on any kind of small round object infront of me (gentle gazing). Even a dirt spot can do. This will fire up the concentration and even be the source of possible absorption states and phenomena associated with it. 

Think about your sits as a prescious time. You go to gym to work out rather than sleep or dream. Here you train in paying attention to the mind stream unfolding. I would suggest trying to keep it as unbroken as possible. 

If you practice for 45 minutes then note aloud matter of fact experience on a rate of 1-5 sensations a second. If it's easy then fast and whisper or silent. If it's difficult then very loud voice and 1 sensation a second is fine. I even noted loud while in utter misery which I could hear in my voice. But I didn't give up. Acceptance of it all and relax the body every so often. 

You can feel free to ignore all I suggest of course emoticon It's your practice and your mind after all emoticon Best wishes. 
george, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Dusko, thanks for the push. I will note tonight as best I can. I feel tired already after work but I'm still going to sit and note for 45min.

George.
george, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Ok sat for 45 min. I was tired, but just kept noting. I was hitting around 5 sensations a sec but it got to a point where I was really tired and dropped to 1 per second. But then it ramped back up again, In the end the pain in my hip was big so I was noting above 5 per second. I'm proud of myself, I've never noted that well before when tired. I usually rest if I'm tired and then sit. Also I've never pushed through with noting that hard! I'm glad that I now know it's possible! Can't wait to go again! Thanks guys for the support!<br /><br />george&nbsp;
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 19 Days ago.

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Nice emoticon 

Just remember that speed will change depending on the mind terrain. That all ok as long we are not wasting half the sitting time in hindrances. 

One can use the voice to introduce equanimity and to raise above dullness. In case there is uncertainty if one is noting correct or maybe just imagining stuff, one can use labels "certain" and "uncertain" with each noted sensation.
In case of utter resistance to noting speak the label out loud (very loud) until noting gets more fluid. 

In case of utter dullness one can use word "there is ... (label here once an object is contacted)" Here it's ok to take it easy and not rush stuff unless energy suddenly bursts again which it can. 

Be curious about the Mind Terrain and how to navigate it skillfully so to stay on the task of "paying attention to matter of fact experience for the duration of the entire sit". Of course it will happen that we get lost a bit here and there. All good as long most of the sit we actually lifted the weights of attention in the gym emoticon It's only for 45 minutes anyway and then off cushion is allowed to get lost and sleepy and restless and etc ... 

​​​​​​​Best wishes! 
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Ni Nurta, modified 19 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Papa Che Dusko
 It's only for 45 minutes anyway and then off cushion is allowed to get lost and sleepy and restless and etc ... 
Wait what?!
This is not how one should practice.
If you really practice then your life becomes the practice and you do it all the time for the rest of your life.
You can ditch 45 minutes on cushion but you cannot get lost, sleepy, restless, etc. off cushion.

Failure to be mindful every moment from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to sleep should be seen as failed day. If you drive on the highway and become distracted you might die and/or kill other people. Treat being mindful in your everyday life the same as if you were driving a car.
That is how one should practice.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 19 Days ago.

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Nice to see you again Ni emoticon 

Im suggesting to take it easy off cushionand don't get too stressed about being on top of the game all the time. No reason to become a radical emoticon Cut yourself some slack for well done work on the cushion. 
 
Cushion work will leak more and more into off cushion life until one day you can't tell the difference between what is cushion and what is off cushion as both are just part of the conscious knowing.

Gradual path this is, what I'm talking about. No reason to call a day "failed" if I get lost during the day in scenario dreams while chopping onions just to cut my finger. Shit happens. emoticon 
george, modified 18 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Thank guys. I'm still very tired, it was hard getting to sleep last night too and was sweating when I woke up throughout the morning.

I practiced for 30 min tonight, noting again, but I almost fell asleep so just stopped there.

​​​​​​​Going to listen to some music while being in the body and fall asleep. Thanks
george, modified 17 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Going to sit tonight again, tired but slept better last night. I'm going to note my fucking ass off, I've had enough of this tired bullshit, yes I'm frustrated too. I will update this.
George S, modified 17 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Excellent idea! Go for it! Note the shit out of everything until there's nothing left to note!
george, modified 17 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Ok did a 45 min hard noting session & I'm not tired anymore. Again noting feverishly, I went nuts, ive never noted that hard before for that long. I reckon I was over 5 notes a second at one point but this slowed down at the end. Doubt almost derailed me during the sit, while I was noting, my mind was questioning if I was in 3cs and haven't crossed the A&P. That one can get me sometimes!! But I just noted doubt, the feeling in the body and the mental talk and just kept going. Phew that was intense. Thanks George for the encouragement!! Tomorrow night I'm doing it again, nothing different!
george, modified 16 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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So today is my birthday. I went out for dinner with family and had a few grappas, as you do, ya know. Tomorrow I practice!!! 

​​​​​​​george
George S, modified 16 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Happy Birthday! Practice is whatever you are doing :-)
george, modified 16 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Amen to that, thanks George.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 16 Days ago.

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As its written in a famous Sutta " Always mindful him sips the grappa , always mindful he orders some more grappa ..." 

emoticon Happy B-day have a good one! emoticon 

​​​​​​​Cheers!
george, modified 15 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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They actually say grappa? Hahaha. It's my sisters wedding tomorrow, I thought I was going to sit but that is not going to happen! Thanks 
George 
george, modified 12 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Ok my birthday and sisters wedding is all over. I was still practicing in daily life just not formal sit down practice. Some of the things I do in daily life is notice sounds, notice sensations in the body and how the body reacts to stimuli from outside the body. I also notice how my body moves through space and the feeling of the ground under my feet. Also when talking to people I notice emotions coming up and instead of reacting to them I'll hold them in awareness. I have never been able to do this before so I'm happy I can now BUT it is reallllly difficult for me and I think is the reason why I'm so tired, I'm holding a lot of anger, frustration, impatience in awareness and it's changing but Its dissolving very slowly. I still don't react, in fact I'm a totally different person. I'm more positive despite the heavy emotions and I can open up to people A LOT easier, I'm more confident.
I kicked off sitting down practice yesterday and I was so tired I couldn't sit for longer then 20 min. I'm currently listening to some music and relaxing, getting ready to sit. I'm tired as fuck but I'm going to sit. I'll see what's in store for me tonight!

george
George S, modified 12 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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It is a difficult and tiring process, so it’s great that you were able to maintain it through something like a family wedding which could easily bring up some reactivity! It’s important to remember that you are opening up long-held patterns of repression and reactivity, so it’s bound to be a slow process with some missteps and relapses along the way. Try to have some compassion (understanding, sympathy, patience) for yourself just like I’ve seen you do for other people on here going through similar things.

This work is really the hard part of the path (insight is relatively easy by comparison!) Tiredness is actually a useful signal that some part of you is resisting or judging what is happening. Of course at first it’s tiring all the time (because resisting and judging is how the reactive patterns developed), so it’s not a particularly useful signal! But over time you can tune into that feeling of tiredness and ask questions like ‘what part of my body is resisting this?’ or ‘am I judging that this emotion is not ok or I shouldn’t be feeling like this?’
george, modified 11 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Hey George, thanks mate! Yeah the tiredness has been an issue for as long as I can remember. I've always slept in for school, work & other engagements. Just ask my family, they know all about my wake up routine. Also about my really irritable mood in the mornings. BUT now I'm actually waking up easier I'm feeling tired more at night now rather than in the mornings and actually feel rested when I wake up, this has never been the case since I've existed on this planet.

Last night I managed to fall asleep while listening to music and didn't sit but I woke up earlier in the morning before work and sat for 20 minutes, this has never happened in my practice life.

Earlier on this evening I had an unpleasant conversation with my parents involving my brother and some troubles he's having at school. They mentioned that he's not happy doing what he's doing at school and he wants to try something different. This didn't sound right to me. For the past month I've really been mindful while talking to my parents making sure I hold my emotions in awareness and I did the same tonight. Anger, frustration, disbelief. They do say some ridiculous stuff but I can see them reacting to doubt, fear and anxiety they're experiencing.

I then spoke to my brother about what my parents mentioned, again not reacting to fear and anxiety but holding those emotions in awareness and speaking with a little compassion & kindness but more direct. My parents were saying that he's not enjoying the subject he was doing at school so I asked him "what's coming up for you when you get to school." He mention he felt embarrassment and ashamed for some of his behaviour in class. Then I said no wonder you don't enjoy your subject anymore because it's bringing up embarrassment and shame, you don't want to be in that class room!! He mistook it for not being interested in what he's doing anymore, but I knew otherwise because he loves what he's learning!! I told him to try to engage in the classroom in a positive way, he doesn't have to be smart, funny or cool but just contribute positively. I also mentioned to him that he has to talk about these emotions to his psychologist so that they can assist him in dealing with them appropriately. Anyway he felt a lot better after that, but it took a lot of energy out of me. 
I still sat for 30min, I was drained but it got to a point where I went beyond fatigue and it kinda went away. After a while I started to notice that I haven't been noting internal talk!! I had in the past been able to watch the mind talk endlessly and just notice it, in fact I had the ability before I started meditating to just watch the talking mind and not react, that's what turned me to meditation! Although lately I've identified with internal talk. Not tonight though! I started to experiment and began talking while watching myself talk. After a while random words, sounds, songs just started to pop up. There was also a murmur of sorts, not even words just sounds. When ever one of these random words shot out an image of the person saying it came up too. I also noticed really quiet or small (talking) thoughts try and slip past from time to time. Really interesting. I'm going to focus on internal talk again tomorrow night! Thanks 
george, modified 9 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Sitting was easier last night, I only did a 30 min sit but the fatigue is dissolving, now I’m starting to space out though. I was trying to do noting out loud but I’m getting I guess a little sleepy or dull/lost and just being a space kadet for 1-2 sec several times in a sit. Also noticed resistance to sitting in this sit and tuned into it when it came up! These are all defence strategies from the mind, a firewall. Not going to stop though!Noting internal talk more but it’s not really there, it’s  actually pretty quiet, there’s more imagery then anything, but maybe I can tune into the image space better? It’s more resistance and spacing out, I wonder if shit is going to hit the fan when I get on the other side?

Tonight I'm fucking exhausted. I want to punch myself in the face how frustrated I am. I will sit but this is fucking bullshit. Maybe I'll punch a wall instead. A soft wall. Actually I'm not frustrated I'm fucking furious. 
george, modified 8 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Okayyyy, I'm fresh as a daisy today, even after work. Long story short! A couple of weeks ago I put money into crypto currency and it's been driving me insane, I've thankfully got out Scott free though.
There's a priest that comes into work, we work on his car and we had a chat about money, he gave me some scripture to read which I'm going to do tonight before I sit.
So that's what was draining me, i believe, but why did I turn to it in the first place? Well it was a great escape from having to practice, even though I still practiced, the investing took so much energy out of me that I couldn't commit to sitting for extended periods of time. So I think it was a part of me resisting. I've taken my money out of the trading companies and I'm not going near investing. I'm having a quiet weekend, I'm going to sit and investigate my experience and see what comes up. Not angry as much tonight : ))
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 8 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Investing into the investigation of one's own experience! emoticon now that is a very good investment! emoticon 
george, modified 8 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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1Tim 6:6-21 is glorious. I understand organised religion gets a bad wrap but the words in the bible are from awakened people so many of us don't listen to them. A lot of people I feel just go to church because they feel guilty & feel like it's the right thing to do, even some people that attend church don't listen!! They just pretend to worship a picture or a cross, what about the words, what about the teachings? That's where Jesus is. That's where all the prophets are! If you notice the teachings in the bible they all explain behaviours of awakened people or describe what happens when we're not mindful, they're talking about present moment experience!!

So true Dusko!! Thanks for your words. Tonight I sat for 40 min noting. There were times when I couldn't note how much stuff was happening so I went into noticing mode and then when it slowed down I talked them out. Fatigue was and is still here and I got dull especially at the end, lots of zoning out and then coming back. The mind ain't liking what I'm doing! Sorry mind but could you please comply? Tomorrow I have a whole day free so want to sit at least twice. Peace out ✌️ 
george, modified 7 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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I've had an easy day, I sat today during the day for 40min but im exhausted yet again. It's tough! What am I resisting? Am I resisting fatigue? What is happening? I'm going to sit again tonight and continue to investigate!
george, modified 7 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Ahhhh!!! The need to control my experience! My experience is not what I want it to be! Control, craving and aversion or resistance to what is!! Hahaha, I was noticing it in my sit tonight and just dropped it! Everything was smoother!! Granted I took a nap before sitting as I was exhausted and it was really quiet in the house, so I wasn't entangled in aversion but I saw it! I noticed how tension in the body is gone when there's less craving and aversion. Less suffering! The dog was barking and that made me startled but it was felt and it dissolved quicker too! Things just came and went in the body effortlessly. WOW! No altered state of consciousness just noticing my plain normal old experience! That's so awesome!
George S, modified 7 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Great! Quite a cycle you've been through in the last few days. It's interesting when you start to see the same old patterns playing out in real-time in a speeded up version ... makes you wonder where it's all leading :-)
george, modified 6 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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No doubt because there is less judgement and resistance, more crap has a chance to come up now!
So craving and aversion is the root of it all? 
George S, modified 6 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Yup that's basically it! (and ignorance as well, ignoring stuff)
george, modified 6 Days ago.

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Thanks George! I sat just then for 45 min and said to myself, I'm going to stop searching for stuff to happen and just let it appear to me. No effort in this sit, just noticing. Mental chatter, sounds but special attention was put on craving and aversion and tension in the body. My left shoulder and jaw always starts to tense up when ever there is craving or aversion. It was mostly a pleasant sit. Will sit again tonight.
george, modified 6 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Earlier during the day I had anger, guilt, shame come up while talking with family members which was hard to deal with but it subsided after a while.
I Sat for another hour just then and it was such a relief! I'm so happy that I don't have to control anything! There was physical pain but body was light, smooth, no tension or very minimal tension. I feel rested after that sit. It was amazing. It was a mix of noting, body scanning for resistance/tension and little bit of mindful talk therapy. Example : there's that thought, what's the say to you? You're angry, where is it in the body? Etc. BUT I felt nothing come up in the body, there was no emotional output in the body, in fact I didn't feel startled at sounds or no emotional reaction from people talking, nothing, just a constant beautiful glow. I'm thinking I got a little bit concentrated there?
george, modified 6 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Some stuff coming up. I'm feeling my parents suffering. I'm crying because I don't want it to be like that for them, yes there's resistance to what is. They experience so much pain & suffering, I don't feel responsible, I just wish it was easier for them. I feel like they've sacrificed their lives for mine. I want to show them my complete love for them. I just want them to have a bit of freedom, joy, ease, peace in their lives. I'm heart broken 
george, modified 6 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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I have this heavy feeling in my stomach/solar plexus. This feeling came up before when I thought I'd experienced an A&P. I couldn't handle it then, I don't know what it is. It feels like a deep pit in my stomach, dread, despair? It's shifting to tension in the chest. My body is tensing up around it too. The body has contorted itself around the sensation. There is aversion towards it. This is heavy duty shit! The emotion is like the cowboy that sits in the corner of a bar in darkness with his wide brim hat. 
george, modified 5 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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There is aversion & resistance to my experience. There is the idea that something is wrong, something is not right and I need to control it. I'm dropping the tendency to control when I see it.
George S, modified 5 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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That's good. Acceptance is what it comes down to at the end of the day ... that is the only thing you can actually control!
george, modified 5 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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I wish I never heard the words arising and passing away. I sat for 35 min. It was pleasant then it wasn't. You really don't want to see what I just wrote. I'm sick of it all. Fucken pointless, just Fucken break me already.
george, modified 5 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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It's all craving and aversion. That's it. I was clinging to the pleasant state last night that's why it went, then I was resisting the shit feeling and craving the pleasant. I'm feeling grumpy but I know what I have to do. I need to learn how to let go, stop controlling everything by releasing tension in the body. Does anyone else have any instructions on how to let go easier or is it just a learning process? Thanks 
George S, modified 4 Days ago.

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At a certain point you've seen yourself go through these cycles enough times that you get sick of doing it to yourself - clinging to the pleasant and resisting the unpleasant. You see that it generates dukkha every single time, and since the cycles are compressing you can't hide from it like you used to. So you say fuck it, today I'm going to try something different, I'm going to embrace the suck instead and see if I get a different result ...
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 4 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Pointers? Yes. 1-10 sensations noted per second for the duration of the whole minimum 45 minutes sit. If too difficult then do noting aloud. Hearing your own voice will be motivating and will keep you away from getting lost much in scenario spins like the ones you mention above. 

​​​​​​​Practice well. 
george, modified 4 Days ago.

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Ok thanks guys, you're the best. This is so funny, I go through the same thing, ask the same questions and I get the same answers. I can see the cycle now, before I was lost and confused now I can see what's happening. Thank you very much guys. I'm gonna smash it tonight!! 
george, modified 4 Days ago.

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So I sat for 45 min noting. I couldn't keep up constant noting. Zoned out several times. I then notice it and turn the energy up and started noting again which brought up pleasantness! I can't remember exactly if I zoned out during the pleasantness but it would make sense. Zoning out is a way of clinging to pleasant states also? It's alternating fast between craving and aversion. I stopped practice at aversion though damn it! Now I feel physically sick and tired. Slippery little sucker craving and aversion!
George S, modified 4 Days ago.

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Zoning out is usually a way of avoiding unpleasant stuff. But maybe you were afraid of losing the pleasantness and pre-emptively zoned out to avoid that? Craving and aversion sound like opposites but aversion to something is really just craving for not-something.
George S, modified 4 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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When I examine craving/aversion up close it feels like watching a single cell organism under a microscope, just blindly veering towards some stuff and away from other stuff :-)
george, modified 4 Days ago.

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Yes thanks George. When I get the good feeling i stop noting because I want to feel it but then I start to zone out. So I zone out because I've stopped noting. Also I feel scared to let go at times with the unpleasant stuff, my body clings to it? This sounds all opposite though so I'm confused. Anyway more investigating needed.
George S, modified 3 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Yes, it is possible to cling to unpleasant stuff! (and actually pretty common) Because it's so familiar it might feel comfortable in some way and letting go of it seems threatening. It is also possible to feel aversion towards pleasant stuff, as if it were not "right" for us or we don't deserve it in some way. All sorts of permutations are possible regarding wanting/not-wanting pleasant/unpleasant, so 'craving' is the catch-all word which basically means 'I want my experience to be different from what it actually is right now'. And the opposite of craving is acceptance, which you could say means 'let me get really interested in what my experience right now actually is' (rather than what I think it should be be or mean).
george, modified 3 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Ok starting to practice, just lying down and listening to music. A little tired, can anyone say resistance? I've been efforting all day, trying to get everything the way I want with work related stuff. Now I know why I'm fatigued! If there was no resistance there wouldn't be a need for effort! Surely you can do a precise job without effort? Haha, isn't that the goal?
I'm going into pleasant fantasies now, noticing and then noting.
I sat for 30 min 25 min which was flat out non stop noting. I then started to zone out and become lost or fall asleep going into a dream state so I stopped. At work tomorrow I'm going to do everything I can with patience, effortless work!!! I'll keep note on how I feel after. I reckon a retreat would be a good idea this year too but I'll see how I go.

so I'm lying down again to fall asleep and I had a lot of tension in my chest and belly. This was the tension from today's efforting at work! This was what I was resisting! As I was watching it though the funniest thing happened, the body started to curl my feet inward and involuntarily stretch the feet muscle. It was such a relief and tension it the chest and belly dissolved! Instantly! It came back again though so I stretched the top part of my feet, again releasing tension and dissolving the tension in the chest area. So I started massaging myself! It feels amazing! The body knows what it needs!
george, modified 3 Days ago.

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Hey sorry I missed your reply George. Yeah that makes sense, despite it feeling unpleasant it's your comfort zone, it's what you're used to. Also with the pleasant sensations I sit with it and then get fearful that I will lose it! Then I'm like fuck, not this shit again. So I sit with the shit, that dissolves and then pleasantness comes and then get fearful again and then back to shit. It's like running into a wall repeatedly. But I'm just repeating what I've already said above the other night. Fucking hell.

The problem here is that I don't have enough clarity with what craving actually is. I see awareness moving and wanting to latch onto things sometimes but not all the time and then I notice the zoning out also but there's stuff missing. Knowledge is incomplete

ahhh it's a habit! It's just doing it because that's what it's been doing for years!!
george, modified 3 Days ago.

RE: George - practice log 2

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Driving to work. Can see the body tensing up, releasing, positive feeling, then anxiety, then the body tensing up again. In the space of about 10 sec

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