"Look how its practicing" Papa Che Log

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Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Month ago.

"Look how its practicing" Papa Che Log

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The other log too long hence this one. Also it seems fitting as I have altered the practice and now practice both  "Look how its ..." and Tonglen as described to me by Shargrol in my previous "Look how its ..." log.

I will not say much about the practice itself or possible realisations or experiences until I look more into it. 
In general there is lots of bodily stiffnesses like neck, shoulder, lower back, this causing sense of agony, lots of insect kind of skin sensations (both sharp bites and disqusting crawling), also during the day sudden surge of energy and is often in form of sexual lust. All these cycle during the day.

Thats all for now.

May all beings be free from suffering, may all beings awaken, may all beings be happy.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: "Look how its practicing" Papa Che Log

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Let me copy paste in here this form of Tonglen by shargrol;

"There is a version of tonglen that I highly recommend:

1. Find some aspect of your present experience that is lacking, is difficult, is suffering, etc.
2. Feel that experience. It can help to name it.
3. State the intention: "if there are any other beings out there that are experiencing this and having too much difficulty with it, may I experience it for them. May their experience come to me. May I fully experience it with no resistance. May they find relief."
4. Feel that experience again. Soak in it, dwell in it. Also imagine the joy the other feels being free of it and how they can gain perspective/insight because they now aren't overwhelmed by it. Go back and forth between you and other.
5. After a period of time that feels right, drop the intention and say, "May all beings be free from suffering, may all beings awaken, may all beings be happy."

And then repeat the whole cycle again when it feels right.

The benefit of this practice is you are not taking on anything new, you're experiencing what you are already experiencing, but you are taking on what you are already experiencing with a much deeper intention that goes beyond yourself.  And it ends with a reaffirmation that we're all worthy of peace, awakening, and happiness.

Give it a try. And feel free to disregard if it doesn't seem like a good match."
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spatial, modified 11 Days ago.

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Papa Che Dusko Let me copy paste in here this form of Tonglen by shargrol;


​​​​​​​Ooh, this is a good one.
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Kaloyan Stefanov, modified 1 Month ago.

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I find this Tonglen very interesting, many thanks to you and Shargol for sharing!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Month ago.

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You are welcome emoticon 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Month ago.

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Update;

Time for intervention!

Last night was very tense! I was in such agony due to all the stiffness, which triggered need for tobacco to such extrent that I was almost on my way into the car and go buy some! However I did not leave the house and just let all agony and this junky craving wreck what needs to get wrecked. 

This morning was similar so I thought "Intervention time"! and sat a 45er doing full on freestyle noting aloud. Did a few times mixture of "Look how its ..." and even a few times Tonglen but most of it was fast noting with open eyes fixed on a kasina (small spot on a table infront of me). 

Afte that session stuff camled down alot. I even went ahead and filled up two full trailers with scrap wood, carbord and plastic and drove it off to the local recycling bin. My partner aslo noticed me being less edgy after this session.

Ok, time to re-kindle Noting and mix it up into the practices of "look how its ..." and Tonglen. Noting sure needed as lots of stuff simply feels so fuckong SOLID.
​​​​​​​
george, modified 1 Month ago.

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I like that Tonglen practice. I do something similar with my brother and parents, thanks for sharing Dusko!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Month ago.

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Cheers George emoticon Im a stranger to such visualizing practices like Tonglen. Total noob if you will emoticon 

Today back to "Look how it's ... " during my daily walk and certainly feels like the right practice. Even the Tonglen and Noting get into it. "Look how it's practicing, look how it's visualizing, look how it's wishing well etc ..." 

With "look how it's" practice there is no rush. There is a lean back kind of attitude. Zoomed out if you like. spacious like. 
There is also a kind of "not knowing" of what will become. There is this wonder to it. Also realization that all this is arising before it can be noticed or aware off. 

Karma-Wisdom mingling without anyone or anything doing it. 
george, modified 1 Month ago.

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Wow beautiful. No effort required. Everything shows up by itself! I love it because it's freedom!!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 29 Days ago.

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I would call it "momentary relief" rather than freedom emoticon as in my case both Anicca and Dukkha make sure I don't get a chance to make a big deal out of it emoticon 

Utter impermanence applies. 3 Characteristics/Perceptions if you will. 

Back to school. Again and again, and again. Always a beginner. 
george, modified 29 Days ago.

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Yeah I agree with what you're saying, but I'm of the opinion that the momentary freedom is a big deal. Maybe because I'm really new to this, Hahaha.
Yes rinse and repeat! Beginner is a good word : )
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 26 Days ago.

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This Tonglen funny. 

May I experience fully ill will of all the beings in their stead ... 

ill will ... ill will ... ehm ... that charge of previous thoughts and images of ill will is gone once there was this Tonglen intent. It's same with neck stiffness. As soon I desire to experience it fully in their stead it's no longer there. There just be this memory of it as a scrap book material. 

Will do some more observation. It does remind me of Kennets "Listening" Mahamudra a bit. 

Update; 
Oldest son sick hence having sleepless nights for several days now. Feel like I'm hangover through the day. Stiff neck and shoulder blade. Can get surges of drumming frequencies in the hearing. 
Hungry Ghost realm
of desire to consume is often there and some sadness associated with not being able to have it. 

Also Hell Realm evident in form of anger thoughts and fights. As well as Azura of knowing better. 
shargrol, modified 26 Days ago.

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hang in there!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 26 Days ago.

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emoticon will do thank you! 
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Pepe ·, modified 25 Days ago.

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Hope your son gets better soon! Metta for all of you!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 25 Days ago.

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Thank you Pepe! emoticon 
He seems fine today but in the night time high fever happens. He does cough a lot. Will see how it goes tonight. We have tested him for Covid and thankfully it's not it. 

All the best to you and your family! 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 25 Days ago.

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Tiny update; 

had time to do 30 minutes Tonglen sitting (usually I practice walking as of late). 

Seems to me that when sitting then the mind goes faster into murk with each Tonglen intention. It takes a few minutes at most and murk with peripheral lava lamp like dynamic movements. Center hazy. Then snapping out of it and murk is gone. 

However at some point the object of Tonglen seemed like it was far far away. I think it was stiffness in this case. It seemed like it was in a different galaxy. Either the being releaved from it or the very stiffness felt in my body.

I will put this in here in case this starts to happen more often. Something about the sense of spaciousness. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 24 Days ago.

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Bodily stiffness, some fear jerk reactions (I've heard something), general unease, thoughts of conflict, off cushion "just don't talk to me" overwhelmed attitude, preassure in the forehead, fantasizing about building a small meditation cabin in our forest and going full on solitude. 

Generally feeling is unpleasant and desire for solitude. 
George S, modified 24 Days ago.

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Papa Che Dusko
Generally feeling is unpleasant and desire for solitude. 

Oh shit man, I'm having a flashback, back in the trenches with young kids again!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 24 Days ago.

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And I thought my experience of war was the worse emoticon 

No wonder Buddha fucked off into the shrubbery never to return emoticon 
George S, modified 23 Days ago.

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lol, and and he only had one of the little blighters, and servants to do the heavy lifting. didn't even make it to the terrible twos XD But according to the suttas there were no hard feelings and he was a great dad emoticon
george, modified 22 Days ago.

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Lots of love to you Dusko!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 21 Days ago.

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That's very kind of you George emoticon thank you! 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 21 Days ago.

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Update; 

Practiced Tonglen today and noticed mind blocking at some stage when to say a certain word. 

May all beings be free from suffering, may all beings awaken, may all beings ... ... ehm? ... it blocks each time when about to say "be happy". 

As if it's unable to remember that word! 

So I intended that "if there are beings out there not allowing them selves to be happy may their experience come to me ..." 

There was sadness, stiff emotions, something proudly holding a stance of not showing weakness and not willing to show being hurt, around solar plexsus in the body mostly some preassure or a knot. 

It seems that neck and shoulder blade stiffness has something to do with this not allowing to be happy. It's ok to be free from suffering, even to awaken but for some reason not ok to allow oneself to be truly happy. 


Now it's evening time and right now feeling emotional, easily overwhelmed, feeling towards solitude, even to leave DhO and just be enirely on my own. I think mind wants to go full on monk at this stage but there is no desire for sitting practice at all. Only desire for walking practice in the forest. So I keep at that for now. 

Thank you for reading. May you all be truly happy. 

Edit to add; 
there is a sensation just under the skull on the top of the right side, as if a sand paper is pressing against the skull from the brain. It's not overwhelming but it certainly ain't pleasant. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 21 Days ago.

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Getting my ars kicked by this stiff bodily agony! 
Fuck this shit! 

Did a 30 minutes walk half Look How It's and half Tonglen. 

Then I decided to do a 45 min Noting sit. This was so fucking strange. Got caleidoscope like images moving from inside out, one after the other. Then all became hazy then at 35 minutes I totally snapped out of the practice mode, just looking around the room. So I stopped there. 

Then decided to do a Tonglen sit but as soon I sat and intended to do it the body mind begun Ki-breathing instead. I've got surprised at this but let it roll instead of Tonglen. This was 30 minutes. 

After that while minding my sleeping baby I did a Qi Gong session. 

You can tell the mind is trying to find a way out of this suffering agony! 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 20 Days ago.

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Late evening; 

The stiffness is ... (whispering) gone ... feeling kind of relaxed ... slight excitement in the lower belly ... high pitch nada sound in ears. 

Whatever was done today seems to have resulted in what is now. 

These "interventions" from today did some good. If I'm not in agony I'm generally much nicer towards those around me so it's a very good thing. Gotta think about that. 

Yoga, Qi Gong, excercise, ki-breathing, water, food, whatever. Good stuff. 

Would not wish another DN as it happened back in 2011 and lasted for 8 years! 

This time around let's use the tool box. Gotta be smart emoticon 

May we all be smart and happy! 
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Pepe ·, modified 20 Days ago.

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Hi Papa Che, which qigong set are you practicing? Do you have a youtube link? Just curious.

Here a Taichi warm-up routine, nothing fancy but does the job (neck rolls at 5:23). 

Bruce Kumar Frantzis has a very detail book on how to open up the whole spine: Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body (USD 21). He has other books like "Qigong for the neck, back & shoulder pain", but it's pricey (USD 97) and,  though I haven't read it, probably just recycling stuff from previous books and videos (he has a pushy editorial behind). 

If you have pain in the neck or the upper part of the spine, please don't do zhan zhuang or at least don't let your arms hang off your torso more that 15 cms. 
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Pepe ·, modified 20 Days ago.

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Also, when I had some pain in the upper back, it helped me to you a pillow below my hands when on cushion, so that the  elbows stay below the hands (assuming you hokkai join hands posture). Otherwise, the weight of the arms hang from the upper back.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 20 Days ago.

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Hi Pepe! Thanks for the links will check them! 

I used to train Qi Gong with the Wing Chun Kung fu club in Malmö Sweden (2010-2011) We learned 10 "shapes" but I haven't practiced it in a long time so I only remember two of them. However the most important one is called "Turtle" (if I remember correctly) and is very good for the whole back, neck, arms, legs, and there is breathing involved there too. 

They do no videos on this sorry. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 19 Days ago.

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30 minutes walking "Look how its" meditation in the forest
then not timed Qi Gong 
and then 30 minutes Ki-breathing (mindfully of course with all the rest popping here and there)

Generally well being and no issues with stiffness (still there sometimes but very weak), The Nada sound is really there these last two days and very spaceous. Eyes have a slightly tranquilised look to them (in the mirror but also sensation) and also a bit glossy. 

My partner said Im less edgy so thats a good thing as I can also see myself having more tolerance with my lively and rebelious 5 yo boy. Also a VERY good thing emoticon 

Im liking it more and more, the way Kenneth Folk approaches all this conscious lifeing as a Yogi; either you just get the Joke and all is just what it is and will never be anything else but what it is and you totally fine with This as it Is, or Thisness Joke is pissing you off and you do "interventions" against suffering like Jhana, Vipassana, Self-inquiry, 6 Realm Reflections, Yoga, Qi Gong, Ki-breathing, Thai massage, belly dancing, whatever and you usually get better, at least for a while. (remember, Anicca rules this Samsara-Consciousness so nothing lasts)

I also like how Chris keeps repeating "this is a ongoing journey with no end" or something like that. Exactly how I feel about this whole dhamma business stuff/fluff.

Vast is this samsaric ocean made of fabricated views and we all are afloat on our fragile tiny dhammic rafts made with thin air from our nostrils and ropes of fools hope ... ... ... 

Hold tight friends, the fog is approaching!!! !!! !!! emoticon 
George S, modified 19 Days ago.

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Du bist fucked mein freund emoticon​​​​​​​
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 19 Days ago.

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Indeed. We all are. Some realize it others don't (yet). 

Fucked, yes! By Demon Mara the grand seducer ! 

Banging me hard from behind while dangling a carrot on a stick infront of my nose telling me how this or that could save me, help me, make me more wise, a better yogi, free from the misery of 3C's. 

He keeps banging without Vaseline and laughing out loud and dangling that carrot on a stick. The carrot in form of a Nimitta and Jhana, in form of a melting face and saying "that's it, this is non duality, you want more of this!", in form of an attainment, in form of a teacher and confirmations, in form of hoping, in form of giving up hope, in form of effort and non effort, in form of practice "here, yogi dude, try some Tonglen, then maybe a bit of Mahamudra or Vipassana maybe, ney try some Dzogchen as it's the coolest of all, then you will be an awakened bad ars!" 

All is Demon Mara. We are fools to believe we can win this fight for longer than One Moment! One Moment of Awakening/Non-duality. Then back to the Mara Machine of pain. 

May we all awake to realize Demon Mara banging us hard without even the curtesy to use Vaseline. Motherfucker!!!
George S, modified 19 Days ago.

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You're beginning to sound like one enlightened motherfucker. Here's one to chew on ...

What if the only difference between being enlightened and being unenlightened is thinking there is a difference?
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 18 Days ago.

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Oh, im a 5th pather bra! emoticon 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 19 Days ago.

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Did all the interventions as yesterday but today the agonizing stiffness is back, disqust with the memorizing mind, comparing mind, with insect crawling sensations on skin, miserable feelings, desire for utter solitude. 
Yellow Tree, modified 18 Days ago.

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Just wanted to express some gratitude for the fact that you keep updating here while going through some tough shit. Really inspiring to see. Wish I had some wisdom to impart on you to pay you back for what you've given me, but some appreciation will have to do for now. Haha.

Either way, thank you again for updating, very helpful and definitely helping, whether intended to or not.

May you find equanimity in your practice. Much love,
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 18 Days ago.

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You could give me one Snus! emoticon Gawd, thoughts and urges of me starting to Snus again were strong today!!! I'm resisting! Well not really, I'm just too lazy to go back to what I already know so well. That oral consuming satisfaction which never gets satisfied really. Hence we go for two Snus at once emoticon ha! 

​​​​​​​Thank you for dropping by! I do appreciate it! 
Yellow Tree, modified 18 Days ago.

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Papa Che Dusko
You could give me one Snus! emoticon Gawd, thoughts and urges of me starting to Snus again were strong today!!! I'm resisting! Well not really, I'm just too lazy to go back to what I already know so well. That oral consuming satisfaction which never gets satisfied really. Hence we go for two Snus at once emoticon ha! 

​​​​​​​Thank you for dropping by! I do appreciate it! 


Hahaha

Yeah don't give in to it. It goes 1-2 weeks maximum and then you realize why you quit. I'm trying to taper off. Luckily I move to Greece on Monday and I'll just bring 4 packs of snus and then that's that. I didn't snus for 5 years because I wasn't in Sweden and that was great. Then first day back home last year and I buy a snus. Dammit. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 18 Days ago.

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Todays practice; 30 min walking meditation "look how its..." Qi Gong not timed 30 minutes Ki-breathing (purple hazy nimita moved in frames at one stage, separate frames, from inside the head outwordly) The constant dance between the sense of Dukkha and the sense of Yogi. Yogi keeps watching the Dukkha dance change from one form to the next and Yogi adjusts his tools accordingly to counter or deal with the Dukkha, to "get it" and this dance goes on and on until one day Yogi gives up this dance and just lets stuff do itself. However this dance needs to be exhausted and some of us are stuborn moddafuckers willing to dance for years, while others are more wise and just let go of this dancing between Dukkha and Yogi early on.  Im likely the stubborn moddafucker! emoticon 
George S, modified 18 Days ago.

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It might be worth investigating this strategy of being stubborn in more detail. At some point it probably made a lot of sense, maybe it was even necessary for your survival. Maybe it still is. Either way, like any strategy or habit, it will have both benefits and costs.

Or maybe I'm just a nosy moddafucker and should stay out of your business emoticon 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 17 Days ago.

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Nah you good man! emoticon You are trying to be of benefit to all beings. Me a being so all good here emoticon 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 12 Days ago.

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Did one practice inspired by what shargrol suggested. 

I just gave it another spin; 

I would imagine this is my last day or even last moment alive. This very stepping against the soil while walking, the hearing of birds chirping, cool wind against the skin, the stiffness in the neck, mosquitoes trying to land on my face, the sadness felt due to the reasisatiom this might be the last time I am to experience anything etc ... 

Very interesting how all got more beautiful in a way. 

Shargrol wrote; 
​​​​​​​A fun game to play is to look at all tough emotions as they are the "ending" not the "beginning". So for example, let's say I'm using my coffee addiction as practice domain. I could look at each coffee craving as the beginning of a problem, something that will in the future get worse and worse, until I either snap or succeed. That's a lot of pressure to put oneself through on the arising of a single craving. Alternative I could look at each coffee craving as the release or ending of one craving in merely a finite number of cravings. Then each hard craving feeling is a good thing, a great thing to happen because it means I'm getting closer to my goal. It's just a change in mindset but it significantly reduces the interim suffering. 
shargrol, modified 11 Days ago.

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Nice! Yeah, worries/concerns quickly become "right sized" when death draws close and puts it all into perspective and the beauty/sweetness that is always there becomes more obvious...
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 11 Days ago.

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It sure is an interesting way of seeing intent leading to such results. 

I was practicing Tonglen today and again intent was to experience this stiffness of body and agony instead of other beings and the stiffness and agony would vanish in that open awareness, that open acceptance. 

So if this stiffness agony disappears so fast in accepting wondering awareness , then what does construct it so fast once ignorance takes over?! Something does contract the whole thing into a tight fist like appearance. 

As soon that awareness is not open and wonder like, accepting like, the stiffness agony bodily sensations (story?) is back in "time" again and doing its dukkha-ing. 

Or so it seems. 
shargrol, modified 11 Days ago.

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Yeah, there is a story level and beneath it an "urge" level. The urge level has the same dynamic, but it is pre-verbal, a kind of established reactivity habit that was created over time. (The urge level is faster and more primal than story.)

The "5 Elements" training is an approach that creates a framework for understanding/noticing these super fast pre-verbal reactions and bring them into awareness... where the same sort of alchemal transformation takes place in open, wondering, accepting awareness. 

5 Elements is probably one of the most sophisticated buddhist frameworks, really getting to the subtle heart of the matter. It's what ultimately creates a foundation for true mahamudra/dzogchen/zazen type practices because those are really beyond technique and require a very very sensitive mind that can naturally/instinctually "self-liberate" the very subtle remnants of needless dukka. 

(You won't be surprised, but my favorite version of this is Ken McLeod's. Some free stuff here: http://unfetteredmind.org/?s=five+elements )
shargrol, modified 11 Days ago.

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One way to think of it is there is an initial reaction to open space, and then the mind freaks out a little and solidifies around one of the 5 elements, creating the seed of the story. The earth element makes up for the agrophobic and vunerable feeling of open space by grabbing on to something, creating self and other that way. Water is the reaction of finding something to push away or avoid. Fire is the reaction of intensifying and over-indulging. Air is the reaction of busyiness or too much activity. Void is the reaction of confusion or depression. 

These reactions happen in 1/4 a second when the rug is pulled from under us. We're groundless and then we react. We're primally reborn, you could say, as a reactive pattern, as an element.

If we're not aware of this, then from this seed, we're psychologically reborn in another 3/4 of a second. This is the 6 realms teachings. Very few people can work with the 5 elements, but the 6 realms are understandable even to children --- and it's one you can rely on when life gets overwhelming. (What world am I in?) We'll develop a worldview and a story about what comes next. If we're reborn in hell, we fight something. If we're reborn as a preta, we feed an addiction. If we're animals, we follow a routine. If we're humans, we weigh and pursue our desires with a kind of cost-benefit calculation. If we're asuras, we compete. If we're gods, we try to maintain what we have.

The cheat codein the 6 realms is the human realm. The human realm can do a cost-benefit calculation on desire itself, being reborn itself, and thus escape rebirth so to speak.

The lynch pin in the 5 elements is awareness itself. Developing the sensativity to see the 1/4 reactive pattern means you aren't embedded in the reactive pattern.

When that is possible, then simply sitting and watch karma lose it's moment is possible. And then we finally glimpse how selfing is based on the false premise that there is something special ("me") that needs to survive as an ongoing idea. Once this "I need to survive into the future" habit is seen, it's seen as needlessly painful to have all the time, and so it becomes right sized and not an addiction that needs constant feeding.

Hope this is helpful in some way. Sort of a four gears approach: noting, 6 realms, 5 elements, mahamudra. emoticon
George S, modified 11 Days ago.

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Brilliant! Personally speaking, the great thing about working with the elements/realms is that samsara becomes much less problematic. Even if you can’t completely escape rebirth, you see it happening in realtime and know what’s going on. Instead of ‘I’m a bad person for getting angry’ it’s like ‘see how it’s passing through hell realm’. Instead of ‘I really don’t want to be doing this work’ it’s ‘see how it’s passing through animal realm’. Instead of ‘I’m so disappointed in myself for feeding my addiction again’ it’s ‘see how it’s passing through hungry ghost realm’. Instead of ‘I want my blissful meditation back’ it’s ‘see how it’s craving for god realm’. Even if you don’t catch the reaction and avoid the rebirth, the non-judgmental awareness of the process results in spending much less time in the realm itself (when you personalize it or resist it you end up getting stuck there for longer and making it worse for yourself). You effectively end up creating much more space between the realms ... which is the space the mind needs to finally recognize nibbana. emoticon  
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 10 Days ago.

RE: "Look how its practicing" Papa Che Log

Posts: 1847 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Thanks shargrol!
Yes it does make sense. I do see such approach possible now. However to make it most practical I will need to get very familiar with the wordings and meanings emoticon You see I never really went full on into any of these. I'm not sure I would know how to place certain stuff into a correct realm
or element fast enough emoticon 

There will be a learning curve here! However I do feel such practice might be right at this time. 
Need to check that link but I do have Ken's book too. 

Thank you again!
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Pepe ·, modified 11 Days ago.

RE: "Look how its practicing" Papa Che Log

Posts: 381 Join Date: 9/26/18 Recent Posts
> a four gears approach: noting, 6 realms, 5 elements, mahamudra

Shouldn't this be the backbone/guiding theme of a future book? emoticon​​​​​​​ 

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