RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

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Brandon Dayton, modified 26 Days ago.

A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 480 Join Date: 9/24/19 Recent Posts
Some of us on this forum have previously engaged with XXXXXXXXXXXXX, who has previously posted on this forum under the handle XXXXXXXXXX. After reading Jason Gilbert's thread on Stream Entry I became aware that the user AKD is also XXXXXXXXXXX.


<<Image deleted for containing personal information>>

I felt upset and embarrassed by this discovery and reached out to XXXXXXX to see if I was missing something, or if he had somehow informed everyone of the profile name change, and I had missed it. After a brief exchange, it doesn't appear to be the case. XXXXXXXXX can explain his own reasoning if I misrepresent him in any way, but my understanding is that he regrets not being anonymous on the forum initially, and wanted to rejoin anonymously. 

While being anonymous on a forum initially might be a good choice in some circumstances, with XXXXXXXXX already having established relationships on the forum it is deceptive to return and engage with those same people anonymously. It is no different than having a relationship with someone IRL but then interacting with them online under a psuedonym (which I've seen happen at least twice, sadly). It creates a situation that is very vulnerable to an unethical use of an asymmetry of information. This would be the case any time XXXXXXXXX decided to engage anyone he has known previously and this was the case when XXXXXXXX commented on my log as AKD. He knew everything about my history, and I knew nothing about him. He has since deleted his posts, but he did not acknowledge or apologize for the actual reason the posts were wrong in the first place. 

In our email exchange I explained that his actions were deceptive and I felt that he should represent himself honestly, but he disagreed citing his desire for privacy (again he is free to provide his own reasonings). We were not able to come to a mutual understanding on the issue, so I felt it was my responsibility to disclose what I know. I do not belive me staying quiet would be a matter of respecting privacy as much as it would be about being complicit in the deception. I have already been hurt by this, others surely will be. 

This is a forum where I have personally made myself very vulnerable with the details I have disclosed about my personal life and as such, trust with those I interact with on this forum is at a premium. Actions like this not only erode my trust in XXXXXXXXX , but it also creates an ongoing air of suspicion about forthrightness of other users in the future. It is not good for the long term health of this community.

As always, it throws into question whether or not the value of anonymity is worth the problems, or at the very least whether or not there should be some carefully designed checks on anonymity to prevent situations like this. Whatever the case, I will be much slower to engage with new users in the future. Trust is something that takes a long time to build. I hope to continue the process with many of you, but this certainly will make me more cautious going forward. If we want to be able to "take refuge in the Sangha" the Sangha has to be an actual place of refuge.
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Chris Marti, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 3930 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
In our email exchange I explained that his actions were deceptive and I felt that he should represent himself honestly, but he disagreed citing his desire for privacy (again he is free to provide his own reasonings). We were not able to come to a mutual understanding on the issue, so I felt it was my responsibility to disclose what I know. I do not belive me staying quiet would be a matter of respecting privacy as much as it would be about being complicit in the deception. I have already been hurt by this, others surely will be.

This is a forum where I have personally made myself very vulnerable with the details I have disclosed about my personal life and as such, trust with those I interact with on this forum is at a premium. Actions like this not only erode my trust in Alex, but it also creates an ongoing air of suspicion about forthrightness of other users in the future. It is not good for the long term health of this community.


Brandon, I understand how you feel. However, it's not fair of you to reveal this person's identity if they didn't want it revealed. It's not up to me, to you, or to any other third party to question their decision, except in private. This was obviously a personal decision, probably risky, but still personal. This person doesn't owe us anything by way of explanation and there could very well be compelling personal reasons for their choices. The best course of action would be to keep this between the two of you.

There are far worse things that can occur on DhO. Please take my advice and let this go now. This kind of thing happens all the time on message boards and social media where anonymity is allowed. It's just not worth the energy to be angry and use that anger to hurt the other person publicly.

Fair?

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AKD, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 91 Join Date: 1/20/21 Recent Posts
 Hello everyone, yes it is true, I am the poster formerly known as Hibiscus Kid.

After some reflection late last year, I decided that what I had shared here with the community in the last few years was a bit too personal. At the time my mental health was suffering and I felt that I had overshared in many of my posts. I regretted it. I took a break from the DhO and I decided to delete my posts here (as I have seen others folks do) and eventually I started posting under a new name (AKD). I tried to keep a low profile at first and keep a practice log on this forum as it is my favorite place to post. 

I made a critical error in posting my personal email address the other day, and Brandon here linked it back to me. Brandon went above and beyond what I'd consider reasonable and emailed me in private, explaining that I owed the community here my true identity - if I didn't tell people here, then he would go ahead and do it for me. I explained my need for privacy and why I had reevaluated what I posted in the past, but Brandon has decided to doxx me even when I asked him not to. I made it clear that he'd be violating a personal boundary.

I know in some sense that we need to take responsibility for what we post online, and that once we post something on the internet then it never truly goes away. So again, I can see how I might be considered naive. At the same time, if I post something vulnerable, I wouldn't demand that other people also post vulnerable aspects of their lives that they are not comfortable sharing. This isn't a cult and in that regard no one should be demanding sensitive information from anyone else or making them share their identity. 

That said, I wasn't being malicious in any way. Technically I didn't violate any rules of the forum either and I have never gotten any complaints from the moderators for my behavior on here. 

I think people are allowed to reevaluate what they have shared and try to delete what they may have written. It's a form of growth. I also believe that folks should be able to start a new user name if they so please in order to remain anonymous. In the end, it wouldn't be my business at all if someone else did so. I also wouldn't fault someone else for doing it, and I wouldn't consider them deceptive or malicious for doing so. I absolutely would not take it upon myself to out someone else for doing so. 

I am sorry to Brandon who obviously has been deeply hurt by this, but my intent was merely to protect myself. I think that Brandon has gone above and beyond what is considered reasonable to doxx me in a way that makes me feel unsafe to be posting at all on the internet. 

Some of you may agree with Brandon that I was being deceptive, but again, I was trying to honor my new-found need for privacy while also trying to be a part of a community that I cherish. Apologies to anyone this may have hurt. I don't know if I will be posting here given the fact that I was doxxed against my wishes. 
 
​​​​​​​I hope you can respect my privacy. 
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Chris Marti, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 3930 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Thanks for the explanation and apology, AKD.

Can you both bury the hatchet now, and carry on?
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Chris Marti, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 3930 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Oh, by the way - this is a magnificent opportunity for both of you to examine your actions and the motivations that preceded them. I'm assuming you would both do things differently, of course, should a similar dilemma arise in your future.

Yes? No?
AKD, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 91 Join Date: 1/20/21 Recent Posts
Of course this is a learning opportunity, you're right. Lots of reactivity and cherished beliefs to examine.

I'll try my best to make sure no such dilemma arises in the future although that probably means sharing less from now on, unfortunately.

That said, I'd appreciate if Brandon or a moderator remove my last name and the photo from the post above. It's all I ask.
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Chris Marti, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

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Done.

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AKD, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 91 Join Date: 1/20/21 Recent Posts
Thank you Chris - I really appreciate it. 
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Jim Smith, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 972 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts

As always, it throws into question whether or not the value of anonymity is worth the problems, or at the very least whether or not there should be some carefully designed checks on anonymity to prevent situations like this.

I think you will find various opinions on this. My opinion is that when posting to the internet in a private capacity anonymity should be the default - as a matter of personal safety. The kind of problems discussed in this thread arise mostly for those who are not anonymous. It is unfair to force people to make their private views public, they won't and it will amount a kind of censorship. There are a lot of good reasons people may need to post anonymously such as religious, political, and academic and scientific intolerance among employers, coworkers, professional peers, and family members and community members. There are also examples of mentally imablanced people who will stalk someone on-line and follow them to every forum they post at and make life on-line miserable for them.

In this forum and elsewhere I've posted about my experience taking classes in spirit communication at a Spiritualist church. I would have been unemployable in my profession (I'm retired now) if I had done that under my real name. In some conmmunities in the US Buddhism and meditaiton are suspect subjects and people living in such locations would have a hard time posting this forum if they were forced to do it without anonymity.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 1842 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Hey Kid emoticon great to know you are well mate emoticon you came into my thoughts the other day, was wondering if you are doing well emoticon 

I totally get your decision. No shame in that and no hard feelings either emoticon 

Brandon mate emoticon I also get your reaction totally and can relate to it, however it's ok to take HK's perspective on this also. 

Just like Chris I hope both of you can let this pass and forgive.

​​​​​​​Best wishes to you both! 
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Siavash ', modified 26 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 1284 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
I think it would be better to have this whole thread deleted. This is not fair to AKD imo. Everyone has a right to decide for their privacy. Why should this thread be still here?
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Brandon Dayton, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 480 Join Date: 9/24/19 Recent Posts
Were I to do this again, I would have messaged the moderators first. Might be a good idea to have an email for doing this until we have a proper messaging system again.

Honestly, more upset now having seen Chris's decision. I disagree with it, I think I've already explained why but I am happy to work through this. I'll just leave it at that for now. Probably need some time to cool off before engaging further here.
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Smiling Stone, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 216 Join Date: 5/10/16 Recent Posts
Hello AKD,

For one, I enjoyed your presence under your former self and I'm happy to have this opportunity to join the dots (it is obvious in the style of your practice log, once we know...). I really hope you will keep on posting here.
Where you both speak of vulnerability, I think of radical honesty. So yes, I can also relate to how Brandon felt cheated as you answered on his thread using information you were not supposed to have. Unfortunately we cannot really assess the damage as you deleted your posts (I really don't appreciate that much that deleting frenzy, but that's me today... maybe I'll do it myself tomorrow).
To Brandon: It's hard for me to see malice in AKD's behavior or general posting policy, he seems to have some pretty serious ethical boundaries, and yes, I couls still easily make up his Id reading the thread (also AKD himself and Papa Che could edit their posts, and we would know, but newcomers would not and all would be well in my view).

Just my two cents
I wish for forgiveness and amend from all parts involved
with much metta
smiling stone (oh yes, about the alias, I can understand the need for anonymity on the internet, even though I applaude -with one hand- those who don't!)
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Chris Marti, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 3930 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Siavash --

Why should this thread be still here?

​​​​​​​Because this is an opportunity for all of us to think through these issues and learn to deal with them with understanding, forgiveness, and grace. And, from what I can glean from what has been said here, it's all going to be okay soon enough.
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Ni Nurta, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 692 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
I do not see what was moderated out but if those were actual personal information like AKDs real name and photos then this should be considered as potential case for a ban.

Law in the US is complete mystery to me, maybe people can post anything they want whenever they want without any responsibility, not really sure. In my country which is part of EU we cannot share personal information without someone consent, let alone with direct lack of consent. It is against the law: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A02016R0679-20160504&qid=1532348683434

I didn't read this document so if this is offense and to what degree I am also not sure. Thankfully I do need not be because I am not member of the moderation team.

And of course DhO welcome page specifically states "No speech acts that would be actionable under US criminal or civil tort law" so this EU document is just a digression from my side and a reminder to moderation to check the rules and regulations in the US before dismissing whole case as unimportant.

This is something that should be considered regardless of who the 'exposed' person is and what they did. If there is a serious issue then personal information go to the police and information about reporting it to the police go to moderation and/or site owner. Also, this is important, WITHOUT REVEALING NAMES AND PHOTOS !!!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 26 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 1842 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
NiNurta emoticon maybe time you switch off that politicaly correct neuron of yours emoticon 
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Ni Nurta, modified 25 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 692 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
As I see it "political correctness" doesn't apply in this case.

"Political correctness (adjectivally: politically correct; commonly abbreviated PC) is a term used to describe language, policies, or measures that are intended to avoid offense or disadvantage to members of particular groups in society." ~ aunt Wiki

I was to write something but I do not think anything can be helped here. This is a lost cause. This community I mean.
I do not want to make myself target anymore than I already did. This situation is not normal and this community with current moderation is not safe.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 25 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 1842 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Hi Ni emoticon 

What happened to your joke-neurons? emoticon 

I hope you can switch them back on emoticon You know "having fun and jokes and picking friendly at each other a bit" like good comarades do? emoticon 

Best wishes to you! 
​​​​​​​Btw, stop chasing waterfalls emoticon 
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Ni Nurta, modified 25 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 692 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Papa,

The joker neurons were writing script for posts in this topic so I guess they just evolved to... dark neurons XD
Worry not though, the Buddha fields are wast. I'll just pick other neurons which until now were slack... ekhm... were "meditating", to make jokes emoticon

BTW. It is the waterfalls that chase me! I am just trying to escape them by pretending that I urgently need to go in to the other direction. Check the time settings on your projectors ;)
Tim Farrington, modified 25 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
 
I was sort of smiling, thinking that it would be weirdly appropriate if the net effect of this is that Brandon, feeling burned in his vulnerability here on DhO, his sense of trust in the sangha fractured, retreats from the forum for a while, and then comes back under another name, anonymously. But the podcast will be a dead giveaway, for starters. And once he and Che start talking about diapers and practice, he'll be outed.

It's impossible for me to get pissed at AKD for his honest best effort to deal with a substantial breakdown and psychic reorganization in the best way he could figure out. I know the sense of fragility that you can feel as you start taking your new baby steps on what feels like new and uncertain ground, after the earthquake. And there's no question in my mind that his fresh reincarnation has been, as his last one here, malice-free, earnest, and authentic, and beautiful in its commitment to practice and the path. A bit more somber this, time, but the transient loveliness of hibiscus flowers comes with the territory.  So with Papa Che, I am glad to know The Kid is back, and it enriches my sense of you, AKD, inevitably. Your old karma is actually pretty damn good here, and it hurts my heart to know what you must have gone through to end up feeling like you had to attempt a clean slate. You have never had anything to be ashamed of here, and you were actually a very endearing and sympathetic character, in my reading.

It's truly ironic that it's Brandon you ran afoul of, AKD, since he is one of the genuinely nicest guys here. If the crucial sequence on Brandon's log is the one I'm thinking of, he actually sort of bent over backwards there to give your input props, as a relative newcomer to the forum testing his wings. That may be an aspect of the emotional backlash he felt, the sense of a history with you, that was removed from consideration unilaterally. 

I think we'd all be blurring this essentially no-harm-no-foul situation by making it into a big deal about the sanctity and necessity of privacy and anonymity online versus the long term building of trust in online communities. This is two guys we know having a fender bender, and both coming out of it with non-crucial damage. It doesn't sound like either AKD or Brandon are going to fade into the forest as a result, thank God, and it will be funny pretty soon, I think: The Artist Formerly Known as A Flower kind of stuff. But both these guys have felt the real burn here, and the reason it hurts is not that DhO is a superficial place for nameless avatars with no skin in the game, but that it is pretty close to the state of the art opposite of that, within the limits of an online forum. It is a place where real people risk authenticity, in an environment rich with committed and dedicated pracitioners. We care here. If we didn't, no one would ever feel burned. That the fire has some heat, and so some danger, is what keeps things cooking. It's humbling to get burned, but there is no need for shame in that. I hope that both AKD and Brandon come out of this sobered, at worst, and seasoned a bit more, and the better for having had to look hard at what brings them here, and keeps them here. As this goes back toward room temperature, I think Brandon's own feedback, written with his typically level head even while he was still pissed, will hold up just fine:

Whatever the case, I will be much slower to engage with new users in the future. Trust is something that takes a long time to build. I hope to continue the process with many of you, but this certainly will make me more cautious going forward. If we want to be able to "take refuge in the Sangha" the Sangha has to be an actual place of refuge.

We're the ones making the place of refuge here. Let's keep building trust, over the long time it takes, to make this sangha a refuge worthy of the name. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 25 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

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Amen to that brother Tim emoticon 
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Chris Marti, modified 25 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 3930 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Tim -

I think we'd all be blurring this essentially no-harm-no-foul situation by making it into a big deal about the sanctity and necessity of privacy and anonymity online versus the long term building of trust in online communities.

​​​​​​​Well said!

Personal hurt is difficult to deal with. I believe in giving people space in order to work things through. Nothing was revealed here that would break anyone's spirit or bank account. What was revealed was removed at the request of the revealee. I really do believe that a periodic episode like this reminds everyone that we need to cherish and protect each other. Why? Because unlike most places online what we do here is wrapped in personal vulnerability and the potential for its opposite, personal growth. The two people involved are very good sorts, will recover from this episode, and may even end up rekindling an online friendship. As I said at the outset on this topic, much,. much worse has occurred here on DhO.

That said, if anyone feels endangered or compromised on DhO, or feels that the moderation is not up to the challenge, or just plain sucks, please feel free to petition a certain Mr. Daniel Ingram about it. He's the Ultimate Grand Poobah and Master of DhO Transgressions.
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Ni Nurta, modified 25 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 692 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
The two people involved are very good sorts, will recover from this episode

There is simple algorithm for this sort of things:
Imagine hypothetical situation that you need to choose one person on whom your life will depend on. The person you choose will have to make choice, either take substantial personal gain but your life will be lost and all this without any consequences to them. Or they choose you and you both will just all walk away from this, no issues whatsoever.

Now, would you choose any of these people to make such choice regarding your life?

If the answer is no then you do not think they are "good sorts" so you should not make such claims.
For the second part: you could choose them recovering from this episode instead. Would you choose it? If not then... you know the drill emoticon

This is how one defeats minds tendencies to color reality with make believe boolsheet.
Do recommend doing such reality checks otherwise you can get lost between facts and self inflicted white lies.
 
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Chris Marti, modified 25 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 3930 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Imagine hypothetical situation that you need to choose one person on whom your life will depend on. The person you choose will have to make choice, either take substantial personal gain but your life will be lost and all this without any consequences to them. Or they choose you and you both will just all walk away from this, no issues whatsoever.

I'm going to stop answering because you seem to want to make this situation far more serious than it was, or is. 
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Brandon Dayton, modified 25 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 480 Join Date: 9/24/19 Recent Posts
My apologies to AKD and the rest of the community for the disclosure. I was hasty in my response to this issue and did not take the time to I should have to try to work through it with AKD offline.

I think Tim's assesment of the situation is a fair one. I feel like it accurately represents where I am coming from, and as such, it helps me to temper my less charitable reading of the situation on AKD's end.

With the connection being made between AKD's former profile and his current one on this thread, there is no more reason for concern on my end. In retrospect I wish I would have just advocated for AKD making that connection public without disclosing any other info.

That being said, I do think my concerns about ex-post facto anonymity are valid. I don't think it neccesitates any changes to forum rules, but I do think members should consider the imbalances of information that come from this, and moderators should take this into consideration when weighing the actions of members if and when they abuse that imbalance.

There is a difference between moving from your home town to start with a clean slate, and moving back to your home town under a different identity. You know all their dirt, and they know nothing about you. It crosses the line from protecting private information to obscuring public information that others are entitled to in order to make a reasonable assesment of reputation (shoulda been a lawyer). It feels like a particular violation when the public information being hidden is the fact that you have a history with someone. 

I don't think anything malicious was done in this case, but there is potential for much worse damage under imbalances of information like this. In my case, it felt like I went swimming, nothing bad happenned, and someone told me later there were sharks in the water. AKD didn't take advantage of the situation, and I don't think he would have, but I felt exposed nonetheless. As I have mentioned earlier, I have seen past circumstances where people used anonymity on forums to take advantage of those they knew IRL. It can turn out much worse. I'm sure it has happenned here before. This is why people like therapists, lawyers and doctors have strict limits on what they can do with the disclosure they receive from patients and clients. Something we ought to think about more carefully here.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 25 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 5450 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Another moderator here. I'm agreeing with Chris that there's no need to make this thing bigger than it is.

We are all human. This is sensitive stuff. It's okay to be human (and it's okay to be in the animal realm sometimes, if you're into that model). I'm glad this seems to be resolved. 

Yes, changing one's alias can be misused for manipulative or other purposes. If that happens, we'll deal with it to the best of our abilities. I'm personally not very comfortable with people deleting their posts, partly because I have seen that been done for manipulative purposes, to change the reality of what happened. This wasn't the case here. The other reason I'm not comfortable with it has to do with clinging, both to the context of what has transpired and to the work I and others have put into replying to posts, not to mention the work that the original poster had put into his posts (beautiful posts!). Apparently AKD wasn't comfortable with what he had revealed about himself, though. We can't all be comfortable all the time, but he had the option to do something about his feelings. It had consequences. I always has. I'm okay with not being comfortable all the time and very happy to learn that the person formerly known as something different than AKD is alive and kicking. I can relate to both his and Brandon's feelings of vulnerability. Banning somebody for this would be ridiculous, honestly. This isn't daycare. We are grownups and can resolve things and move on. 
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Ni Nurta, modified 25 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 692 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Just to clarify: my ban suggestion was in relation to possibility that the revealed information were personal data and photos and all that without consent from AKD. This is what I saw and still see:
That said, I'd appreciate if Brandon or a moderator remove my last name and the photo from the post above. It's all I ask.

Suggest personal data leak and in one of the worst fashion possible, making it sound like AKD actually did something bad - it doesn't matter if things were explained or not. The damage was done the moment topic title was read. The association of "AKD is the person who did something terrible" was burned in to my neurons.

In general it looks to me like enough of a reason to ban someone.
And if something is ban worthy by itself then at the very least proper warning should be given with big font, red letters, etc. Imho

Why?
Because it should be visible that moderation is caring for making people secure in pragmatic ways and not just with wishful thinking.

Other than quick reaction to remove personal information and giving warnings the next pragmatic thing would be realization that what we have here is some kind of fear nana and one quite strong at that (full blown paranoia I'd say) and proper solution to it is informing affected person of that possibility and how to deal with it and its possible implications when not being dealt with. Someone who got to at least 2nd path should know it is imperative to not let people believe their mental states caused by cycling are caused by external events because if this does happen people can spend years in the Dark Night. Saying "everything will be alright" is ok when we have certainty that someone is aware of all that they should be aware in order for everything to be alright. Saying it is skillful but not when it is the only thing that is being said and replaces everything else and this is what I see here. When someone is in highly charged emotional state then it helps to calm them down somehow by saying all will be alright but this is temporary effect. The next wave of paranoia arise and it will cause the next event/object/person to be associated with it, thoughts will start to arise and full blown emotional states. All the 'allright' at this point went to hell. Proper solutions should be implemented alongside emotional ones. Cause I have shangha for the rest I can talks freely about other stuff... which is actually very nice ;)

Anyway, the purpose of my post was not so much to cause Brandon's ban but to make him think about such actions in broader scope than what someone might do to him but also what it can do to him when he goes overboard with heedless solutions. This with the hope that the next time he are less likely to act in heedless ways. Also important is that heedless action might do to someone. Neither of these topics will occupy mind when the reaction of community is "ah, nothing bad happened, everything is and will be alright". This include realizing issues of DN and remembering to be mindful and keep the right practice.

@ Brandon
I made new account after some period of inactivity and I didn't tell who I was.
Here is the thing: I have no idea how this can be used to my advantage. Also no clues for what purpose. No one seems to be offended, no one complained about it so far. Some people recognized me from what/how I write.
Maybe the issues you raise do exist but execution of this topic is not very good if not downright terrible. Do not mix up topics with ridiculous amount of emotional charge with topics which need rational thinking. Otherwise your topic you raise won't get any attention.

As for some advice maybe if you actually articulate the thoughts you have you will realize their proper strength. For me it seems you did not do that, hence the fear you have has control over you. Many sensations, feeling, emotions, thoughts, etc. appear more than what they are because they are not real and as not real they might appear as anything, with any strength. They do not really exist hence there is the need to 'penetrate' them. I could explain how it works technically in nervous system but I doubt you want to listen to that right now emoticon still, just use mindfulness in everything you do and if you do then I bet you won't feel the need to act on such issues and regardless of that you will act but in much more calm and skillful way.

ps. Can you change the topic title to something more appropriate?
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Smiling Stone, modified 24 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 216 Join Date: 5/10/16 Recent Posts
Yep, I understood that (the full disclosure) after writing my post... And I think it is really yucky! To refer to the former alias was plenty enough in my view. So I believe you are right to insist on the topic for Brandon to understand the seriousness of his action (and the possible unwelcome consequences for ADK, I remember the disclosure on the forum was an issue for him).
I enjoyed your former selves, Ni Nurta, and felt something akin to sadness when YOU erased all your posts (because I liked to go back and ponder -some of- them and their unique worldview)...
with metta
smiling stone
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 24 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 5450 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
What triggers paranoia differs between individuals, I'd say. Brandon's post didn't trigger mine. I do think it was important to remove the identifying information, though - good call there! Let's respect each other's anonymity! 

What does trigger my paranoia a bit is learning that Ni Nurta has had several different aliases. I can live with that unease - it illustrates something to work with, after all - but I really wouldn't mind being informed if we have interacted before, and if so, how. So I guess my personal bias with regard to what is unsafe is more in line with Brandon's here. That's important for me to bear in mind, so that I can compensate for it if needed.  
Edward, modified 24 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 91 Join Date: 6/10/19 Recent Posts
similarly, if Chris Marti is not really a furry pop tart, I'd appreciate if he'd come clean.
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Chris Marti, modified 24 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 3930 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I am not furry. I am a pop, of sorts.

I do know this, though - anywhere online that allows anonymity and the automatic creation of user accounts should cause us to be mindful about just who we're dealing with. I experienced cases in that vein that would curl your hair while moderating the Time Magazine and Entertainment Weekly message boards back in the day. So when I said this was a mild situation that would turn out okay, I meant it.
genaro, modified 24 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 72 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
edward thank you for that, the right level of paranoia and disgust and fear i think. I've been worried about Chris for a while.

And now for the message of joy and happiness: AFAICS as a commmunity the DhO seems to be working ok.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 24 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 1842 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
"What does trigger my paranoia a bit is learning that Ni Nurta has had several different aliases"

emoticon Ha! The 'Neuron Man' was likely one of them! emoticon Apparently he is from Europe ... (I hope he aint my neighbour though ... looking over my shoulder ... )

p.s. sorry Ni for talking about you in 3rd person. I blame my neurons for it emoticon 

p.s. 2 I think time for me to remind the community once again that I have another alias here from 2011 called Che Guebuddha. The only reason I made this new one is the old one lost the ability to reply to posts. Both Admin and Moderator knew about this and we agreed that its easiest to just create a new account as they couldn't find the issue. So I did just that. 

Ah this Dhamma Drama emoticon We could make a Netflix hit with this emoticon 

However I feel much better now all these things came to light. I thank both Brandon and AKD for it and wish them to get over this and let us inspire each other to do the actual work; the practice which can already be hard as is.
Yellow Tree, modified 24 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 58 Join Date: 3/13/21 Recent Posts
Sounds like a great opportunity for everyone to practice a bit haha

"Look how it's paranoid"

Glad to see Brandon and AKD coming to terms, however, this is still quite amusing.

"Look how it's amused"

"Look how it's using 'look how it's' to make bad jokes"

I'll see myself out lmfao




P.S.
​​​​​​​Looks how it's seeing itself out.
Yellow Tree, modified 24 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 58 Join Date: 3/13/21 Recent Posts
 
Sounds like a great opportunity for everyone to practice a bit haha

"Look how it's paranoid"

Glad to see Brandon and AKD coming to terms, however, this is still quite amusing.

"Look how it's amused"

"Look how it's using 'look how it's' to make bad jokes"

I'll see myself out lmfao




P.S.
Looks how it's seeing itself out.
 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 24 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 1842 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Hey Yellow Tree emoticon What was your old alias on DhO? emoticon 

Love your practice right there dude emoticon emoticon 

If ok with you all let's go over to the Bar(do) of Last Resort and celebrate emoticon The drinks are as per usual on Tim! 

P.s. I've got a new pack of toilet paper just in case Bar(do)'s toilet is out of it, as it often happens there. 
Yellow Tree, modified 24 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 58 Join Date: 3/13/21 Recent Posts
This was always my username. But for some reason the forum displayed my full name instead of the username I picked. I'm not sure why. So I had to change my full name to the same as my username. I always intended on staying annonymous and intend to stay as such because I have a bit of an online presence with my work and don't want to risk getting more selfing involved in this practice than I already have.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 24 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 1842 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
emoticon My apologies Yellow Tree emoticon I was just being silly with that question. 

But thank you for sharing.
Yellow Tree, modified 24 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 58 Join Date: 3/13/21 Recent Posts
Papa Che Dusko
emoticon My apologies Yellow Tree emoticon I was just being silly with that question. 

But thank you for sharing.


Nah all good. Also I should say thanks again for recommending the "Look how it's". I'm doing it whenever I'm driving and every time I step out of the car I suddenly realize I'm clearly in a VERY different state. It's like a cheat code. Gonna make it part of formal practice.
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Ni Nurta, modified 24 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 692 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Sorry for the confusion emoticon

My first nick was Pawel K and for a while as Angra Mainyu though later I changed it back to Pawel K.

I also felt sadness when I deleted everything. I did cessation of it and any thoughts like "does anyone cares?" was immediately taken care of along with its source / from where it arose. This was ultimate use of my work, to use it as sacrifice for practice. Not that I planned such poor fate to my posts, it was just more use out of them than leaving this gibberish on-line. It was supposed to inspire people to try practices they want to do because I proven it on myself that this is the ultimate path to enlightenment. There is however reason why people behave how they behave, that they are not free when they could be free. I have however no such resources to smack people until they fall out of their stupor. That is why this time I mostly talk about neurons. Neurons are fun emoticon

I have posts but I cannot put them back.
I will look at them and put them somewhere, maybe in my practice topic.
Actually it will be fun to read what I wrote in the past, especially posts before 2015. I was pretty emotional but in strange way because it was always reflected in how I saw colors rather than experiencing normal emotions and I was always wondering why people do not see their colors changing all the time despite knowing how it was because just few years earlier I didn't see anything like that either emoticon
Though it was more like "how can enlightened people not know this? what they see if they do not see anything?" kind of questions. Answer is oh so simple ;)

@ Linda
Hmm
Do not worry, there will come a day when you will figure who I am emoticon

@ Papa
'Neuron Nun'?
Doesn't sound like something I would use. I mean neuron yes but otherwise no, not really. Do not see myself calling myself that emoticon
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 24 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 5450 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Thanks! 
Tim Farrington, modified 23 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
 
Now that we're all joking, and the thread's heat has dissipated, I may be the last one plugged in. Even Ni Nurta has gotten his sense of humor back, although as far as the substance of the thread goes, he still apparently is willing to condescend to Brandon, for his own spiritual good, and to presume to lecture and try to wake Brandon from his stupor, even if he doesn't get to use a stick.

Well, I say boolsheet, as Pawel put it; and I agree with him on the healthy nature of reality checks, so that we don't get "lost between facts and self inflicted white lies." Pawel thinks that what happened here was a Very Big Deal that we swept under the rug rather than facing in all its necessary Bigness. He puts himself forward as the voice for spiritual integrity here in the community. But Brandon got his own feedback very early on here, and has apologized for overstepping, and drawn his own honest conclusions, even without being banned. He and AKD appear to have come through this okay, and it has been a learning exercise for everyone, except you, Ni Nurta. You were over the top, in my reading of it, from the beginning, and determined to make a mountain out of this speedbump. The range of ways you insisted that it was a big deal was sort of wild, very scatter-shot, and sometimes even internally contradictory, but you were going to insist, no matter what. You started with a pure legal black and white, and even put in a link to some enormously complex international legal material, which you haven't even read yourself. Then you switched arguments and challenged Chris's sense that this was a small deal, after all, between two "good sorts," by introducing an "algorithm", which was actually a syllogism with a somewhat bizarre premise: A "good sort" is someone you would trust your life with, even if they were tempted to escape without punishment and to their own advantage if they chose to let you die. Would we do that with Brandon and AKD. No? Then they are not good sorts. For what it's worth, I would do that with Brandon and AKD, whom I know to be two deeply conscientious people striving for morality and committed to the path that does no harm. It's actually a slam dunk, as a supposed dilemma: if I trust either of them, and end up dead, i've lost nothing but this nothinged self; if i trust them and they come through, I've gained a priceless fire-tested friendship.

Then you switched your argument again: you only waved the stick of banning Brandon for his own good, so he would realize the right lesson and not have to burn in the hell of the DN down the road for the sin of not seeing this incident the way you see it. You just wanted big bold red letters, a scarlet sign of his sin, to help him be a better person. But I don't think you care shit about Brandon. Nor about AKD. If you did, you would not have been going on and on about the damage done to poor AKD's reputation by this thread. If you look back, you'll see that a lot of people were actually delighted to realize what name AKD had posted under previously, and a lot of people's hearts went out to him as they realized the depth and intensity what what he had gone through between names. You were the only one who had the smear of a malicious exposure burned into your neuron, and that is only because you don't fucking know the guy, in either incarnation. You have no sense of context, no meaningful history, no real personal knowledge here at all. It's why your response could be so spectacularly disproportionate throughout: you don't have a fucking clue who these guys actually are. But you are still quick to preach to them and presume you know what's best for them spiritually, even if you have to use smugness and condescension instead of the stick that might bang them out of their stupor.
 
I think everyone on earth is in a stupor, to you. But one person's stupor is another person's survival. and their state of the art on the path. So fuck that stupor shit, which may feed your sense of your superiority but otherwise has nothing to do with anything.

You said that your input here was for Brandon's own good, to make him think about such actions in broader scope than what someone might do to him but also what it can do to him when he goes overboard with heedless solutions. This with the hope that the next time he are less likely to act in heedless ways. Also important is that heedless action might do to someone. Neither of these topics will occupy mind when the reaction of community is "ah, nothing bad happened, everything is and will be alright". 

Pawel, I won't pretend i'm saying this for your own good, truly. Your Buddha ego is bulletproof and seems impervious, in any case. I've just had enough of your shit for the moment. And since you didn't manage to fuck up the good, healing thing happening on this thread (your overreactions aside, this thread was about two good sorts sorting a collision of vulnerabilities out in the context of this sangha, and succeeding), this seems like as good a time as any to point out how I believe you went way overboard here with heedless solutions, like a bull in a china shop, with no regard for the possible effects of your heedless actions. And I don't want to see your boolsheet get swept under the rug--- not for the sake of the community, necessarily, but simply because you just plain pissed me off here. The real potential for damage on this thread ended up being mostly from you. That's a reality check.
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Ni Nurta, modified 23 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 692 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
I didn't make it bigger deal than what say it was. Leaking personal data in any way can lead to serious consequences. Especially since it kinda seemed like Brandon posted AKD's real name and photo (which would not make any sense but these were the two words used by AKD). People got sued for far more trivial reasons.

You have no sense of context, no meaningful history, no real personal knowledge here at all. It's why your response could be so spectacularly disproportionate throughout: you don't have a fucking clue who these guys actually are.

Who they were and are is completely irrelevant to what I am saying. Such things as personal stories cloud thinking.

Besides I am talking about hypothetical situation that personal data was revealed in which case they could be Jesus Christ and Mother Theresa and it wouldn't mean the option to resolve such issue in the court was not laying on the table.

his seems like as good a time as any to point out how I believe you went way overboard here with heedless solutions, like a bull in a china shop, with no regard for the possible effects of your heedless actions. And I don't want to see your boolsheet get swept under the rug--- not for the sake of the community, necessarily, but simply because you just plain pissed me off here. The real potential for damage on this thread ended up being mostly from you. That's a reality check.

My goal is so that people do not reveal personal information of other users. Hopefully it became obvious that this is something which should not be done even without anyone getting banned.

Pawel, I won't pretend i'm saying this for your own good, truly. Your Buddha ego is bulletproof and seems impervious, in any case. I've just had enough of your shit for the moment.

Yet you took the stick and started poking me... brilliant plan emoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 23 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 1842 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
I have a feeling Kafka will join this trial any time now emoticon 
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Angel Roberto Puente, modified 23 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 222 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Ni NurtaBesides I am talking about hypothetical situation that personal data was revealed in which case they could be Jesus Christ and Mother Theresa and it wouldn't mean the option to resolve such issue in the court was not laying on the table.” I am obligated to come to Christ's defense, it's true, he posted under a lot of profiles. Over two hundred. Luckily they were inscribed in parchment where they tended to auto-delete and the threads, although numerous were banned by some really overzealous moderators. Do you think He would have been banned by Chris if he had done that in this forum? He was taken to court and lost the case. Identities, they've been a problem for such a long time.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 23 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 5450 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
I don't believe people learn much from punishment and condemnation. I think we learn much more from dialogue. 
Tim Farrington, modified 23 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Ni Nurta: My goal is so that people do not reveal personal information of other users. Hopefully it became obvious that this is something which should not be done even without anyone getting banned.

Amen. 

Besides I am talking about hypothetical situation that personal data was revealed in which case they could be Jesus Christ and Mother Theresa and it wouldn't mean the option to resolve such issue in the court was not laying on the table.

I think a retrial of Jesus would constitute double jeopardy, at least under U.S. law, although the precedent of re-trying someone who has already been executed would raise some fascinating legal issues, especially post-ascension. There are also the pragmatic difficulties of reassembling the justice system of a defunct empire. Mother Theresa, on the other hand, is still at large as an unindicted co-conspirator.  Che is probably right that this one might be a case for a Kafka venue. Maybe Mother T could hire Joseph K as her lawyer, as he is familiar with the system.

Yet you took the stick and started poking me... brilliant plan emoticon

Busted. May we go forward stickless and unstuck.
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Steph ., modified 20 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 669 Join Date: 3/24/10 Recent Posts
I see that this issue is largely resolved now and still wanted to chime in.

My comments are for future reference and consideration moving forward. I don't glean that my comments relate necssarily in this specific situation, but wanted to put this out there anyway. There are very real risks to peoples' personal well-being and safety that can occur with doxxing. It's interesting the various stances people take on where their triggers and paranoia lie. I'd be more paranoid about someone being doxxed than someone changing their name to protect against someone learning too much personal info about them. For example, I personally know people who have stalkers with violent tendencies. I have loved ones who have cut people out of their lives and tried to cut contact with the person who now stalks them, and even with legal action like protective orders, the risk to their personal safety still remains (i.e. from hearing loved ones' experiences, i know that police tend to do fuck-all to actually enforce protective orders and I don't know how digital platforms are coded in the legal sense). This is to say, you don't know who might have some sort of very real and serious personal risk to their safety by having their contact information and identity revealed online.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 20 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 5450 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Yes, revealing people's real life identities against their will is not okay. In case it wasn't clear, both active moderators agree about that. The threats you mention, Steph, are real and can have fatal consequences, and I appreciate that you describe those risks so clearly. 
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Steph ., modified 20 Days ago.

RE: A Disclosure on the Identity of AKD

Posts: 669 Join Date: 3/24/10 Recent Posts
Thanks, Linda. Yep, I understood and it was clear that the moderators are against revealing identities/doxxinig. I simply wanted to add the safety perspective for anyone else reading the forum who might not have considered that angle. Thanks again for all you do here.

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