A Switch

Robin Woods, modified 3 Months ago.

A Switch

Posts: 170 Join Date: 5/28/12 Recent Posts
Just been wondering what might happen if someone threw a hypothetical switch and tomorrow morning everyone on the planet woke up Enlightened. Any speculations on what the real world ramifications would be? 

Does: 

* Everyone just wander around staring at things and laughing quite a lot? 

* Bullying (of all kinds) diminish significantly? I'm only half-awake and I literally couldn't imagine trying to bully or humiliate another person ever again. 

* what happens to competitive consumption? Do people still want the newest iPhone? Fast cars? 

* Does the world become far less nationalist/xenophobic? 

* what happens to support for Trump? 

* what happens to the Military-Industrial Complex? 

* Does everyone suddenly agree that Greta T might be onto something? 

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Ni Nurta, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: A Switch

Posts: 767 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
* what happens to support for Trump?

What question is that?
Robin Woods, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: A Switch

Posts: 170 Join Date: 5/28/12 Recent Posts
Not sure what you mean? 

Does support for Trump decrease as people see that reality is karmic and causal and that (for instance) scapegoating minorities isn't going to help The Universe any?
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Ni Nurta, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: A Switch

Posts: 767 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
My proposal. The awakening program if you will: 
1. Stop taking drugs
2. Stop doing anything else that numbs your mind like meditation (for a while, you can resume it later when you are awaken and I guess you will need it for your training... or if all fails resume what you stopped in previous step)
3. Read about economy
4. Read about history of countries which have or had in their past communism 
5. Read about "Critical Theory"

And then once you are aware what is actually happening the time for your real training begins: try not to cry
Have fun emoticon 
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Josef C, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: A Switch

Posts: 72 Join Date: 6/16/20 Recent Posts
I think a good  addendum to number 4   would be books about capitalism , there are a lot like Capital by Thomas Pikkety , the big short by michael lewis ,
The Shock Doctrine by naomi klein ,  capitalism a ghost story by arundhati roy  and dark money by jane mayer  among other books. 
genaro, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: A Switch

Posts: 84 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
my sincere hope is that there would be an end to virtue signaling

igor:  throw the switch, we've got a monster to make
shargrol, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: A Switch

Posts: 1614 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
the tricky thing is ~250,000 babys are born each day. they wont be enlightened. and all those less than ~16 years probably can't become enlightened due to human development... (this is a good model: 

http://www.cook-greuter.com/Cook-Greuter%209%20levels%20paper%20new%201.1'14%2097p%5B1%5D.pdf

)


but let's assume all adults...

nothing would instantly change, but people would be able to talk about the elephants in the room like the things you mentioned instead of vaguely social signalling...

there would be a lot of drama when people have to admit that pretty much everything is is motivated by kin survival and vanity, including the way systems are gamed. this could still be a personal blind spot after enlightenment and others would have to point it out, but once seen it wouldn't be unseen.

similarly there would be a lot of drama when people have to admit that pretty much all personal projects are are immortality projects (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Denial_of_Death). this could still be a personal blind spot after enlightenment and others would have to point it out, but once seen it wouldn't be unseen.

similarily everyone would quickly understand the "one" idea at the core of buddhist theory --- but it is not the one that most people think of, i.e. "we are all one", but rather the honest truth of early buddhism: that all beings need to eat other beings to survive. In addition, there would be quick understanding of the modern ecological correlate: all beings living without competition will quickly overpopulate. My favorite example is that two bacteria growing without contrainst will fill the universe:

After just 8 hours, a single bacterial cell will give rise to more than 1.5 million cells. If we let the colony grow for several days (with infinite nutritional resources), their numbers quickly surpass the most absurd of values. After a week, our theoretical colony would surpass 10¹¹⁹ cells, a number so vast as to be incomprehensible. This is nearly one hundred orders of magnitude more than the estimated number of stars in the universe (10²⁴).

https://nikomccarty.medium.com/how-long-would-it-take-bacteria-to-eat-the-earth-cd3348fe5ded


So then the real important problems come to the forefront: what societal frameworks are in place to have appropriate levels of suffering and conflict to fit within the ecological limits we desire. Humans will still need to be born and develop and live and die, as will all beings. Every decision will have its benefits for some and its downside for others.

So really, human/societal life will continue to be an elegant compromise after everyone gets enlightened, but perhaps the brutal truths of human life (including how no one will remember any of us in 50,000 years) will allow much more frank discussions and planning, rather than leaving many thing unsaid or just socially signaled during discussion/debate.

I suspect that post everyone-is-enlightened there will both be more respect for experts and more humility within experts, which is very hopeful. The best ideas do seem to come from discussions between people working on particular topics for several decades, especially if they can drop their self-importance. emoticon

Thanks for the fun question. Of course the real answer is: I have no idea what would happen! 
George S, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: A Switch

Posts: 2026 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
+1  The Denial of Death emoticon​​​​​​​
George S, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: A Switch

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Also, thanks for exposing this faulty assumption ... Somewhere in the back of my mind I think I was assuming that enlightened parents would bring up children with minimal levels of suffering, but that's obviously a ridiculous assumption given the facts of life!
George S, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: A Switch

Posts: 2026 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
(and just to add, I'm not saying this in defense of my own spotty parenting abilities!)
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Josef C, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: A Switch

Posts: 72 Join Date: 6/16/20 Recent Posts
If youre interested in this kind of thing there is a newsletter by robert wright writing about his project called  the apocalypse prevention project. Central to it would be mindfulness among other things and that it is really interesting . I could expand more if youre interested . Although I would be less hopeful about the global changes that could possibly happen with sudden enlightenment , but hopefully there could be massive changes if such a thing happens due to our current trajectory . Although as Shargrol has said  we dont really know ! XD
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Angel Roberto Puente, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: A Switch

Posts: 281 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Nothing would change. The fundamental human problem is that of choice. Look at the life story of the teachers that brought Buddhism to the West and you will see that adherence to morality or altruistic behavior is not a given. The possibility of detachment doesn't guarantee that the choice to detach will be made. Pleasure, power, and all the rest of the self-serving impulses will always be a very strong temptation. In short, identification with our true nature expands the choices we can make but doesn't force us to make the right ones.
genaro, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: A Switch

Posts: 84 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
ok let's pick apart one small part of the OP.

* what would happen to support for Trump?

well, he'd be enlightened and support for Trump would increase, as everyone else would be in agreement due to thier own enlightenment situation

Honestly it amazes me that within a few days of Daniel posting about people not dealing with this moment someone posts about a dreamy fantasy where everything  'is naice'.

But let's consider when the switch is thrown, everyone is enlightened, the world is a wonderful fulfilling and loving place to be. You, Robin Woods, are a medical doctor and a pregnant woman presents with a problem and you have a choice of saving the baby or saving the woman: who do you kill?

(FWIW that's the famous trolley problem)


So I guess what i'm saying is 'no change', shit will still happen.
genaro, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: A Switch

Posts: 84 Join Date: 11/23/19 Recent Posts
of course my remarks presuppose that enlightened people all agree with each other.
I wonder how that could be verified?
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Jake Frankfurt Middenhall, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: A Switch

Posts: 96 Join Date: 9/12/18 Recent Posts
Wow! It would be an utopy...
I´m not enlightened yet, however meditation has improved my mood and my awareness in very noticeable ways, i´m a much  better person that before.
The change will be huge and positive, i can´t even fathom all the reduction in suffering and greed, people that affirm "nothing would change" are just plain nihilists and they are out of their mind.
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Angel Roberto Puente, modified 3 Months ago.

RE: A Switch

Posts: 281 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
I'm glad you have received some initial good feelings from meditation. Keep going, keep going. Maybe you haven't read about the heated doctrinal disputes regarding, who is “enlightened”, that there have been throughout the ages and in different countries. Some ended up with enlightened folks tearing each other's robes. Which enlightenment are you expecting? What is the state you think people will be in when they are enlightened?