George practice Log 4

george, modified 2 Months ago.

George practice Log 4

Posts: 287 Join Date: 9/8/20 Recent Posts
New practice log. Things are monumentally different yet everything is kinda the same. Words are never really going to do it here but I'm going to try. I feel very connected, in the sense that self is not connected. We're just one thing and always have been. I see how people's awakening is awakening me and setting in chain other people's awakening. It's not my awakening, it's this whole connected thing that's awakening. Insight after insight is coming and doesn't stop, it's really a lot to take in I really feel the need to ground myself here.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Months ago.

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"really feel the need to ground myself here."

Noting 1-5 without laps in mindfulness is great for grounding emoticon 

Insight just Is. then Mind locks on it and spins it around, using it like a flag of victory, spinning stories of this and that. Mara uses anything as a carrot dangling infront of your nose on a long stick emoticon 

Following this thread. 

Best wishes to us all! 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Yes 1-5 is what I'm going to do but more gently, not so hardcore anymore. 

yes lots of crazy shit coming up. Like im a Buddha, feeling really sexy, like irresistibly sexy, I promise im not doing it, hahaha. I chuckle to myself. Ive been house hunting today and I've been feeling pressure and tension in the chest all day, it's relaxed a lot now but it was intense. Thanks papa

sat started noting but then just didn't give a fuck and rested in a relaxed state. Nice & peaceful. Stomach has been doing weird contractions
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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So I can see what's happening words are pretty shit though. I get fearful I think because I'll never be able to feel ultimate oneness or a deep connection. Upon breaking through this fear by letting go I feel the connection and then I get fearful again that I will lose it. Happening faster now. I realised this happened when I was a young boy but that's just another story.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Song by Mika

​​​​​​​Relax, take it easy
For there is nothing that we can do
Relax, take it easy
Blame it on me or blame it on you
It's as if I'm scared
It's as if I'm terrified
It's as if I'm scared
It's as if I'm playing with fire
Scared
It's as if I'm terrified
Are you scared?
Are we playing with fire?
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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So I sat for 70 mins, little noting but mostly just relaxing body. It was nice. I have energy coming up the spine again starting at the base and coming up and body movements. This happened when I started meditating 5 years ago and is happening again but more subtle. Anyway when I sit now I feel normal, when I'm bopping around in life I really just want to sit now.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Flowers bloom in a field for it


Rivers flow for it
Mountains dance for it
A forest thrives for it
A planet orbits the sun for it
A universe is born for it

Reality is animated by it for it.

Tonight's practice is going to be loving kindness. I've never really done a sit like that but I'm just going to try.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Attachment theory starting to make sense. This is very painful.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Didn't sit yesterday and not sitting tonight. Crash and burrrrrn
George S, modified 2 Months ago.

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But you're aware of the cycle right?
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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I'm aware of a cycle but I'm stumped on the cessation part. There is something that happens when I'm welding that I noticed years ago but it kinda clicked today oh maybe a cessation. It was a blip, my eyes kinda roll more like shift to the side and it's lights out. When I'm back I'm like wtf just happened and then I just continue welding. Today when I noticed it I felt happier after and I laughed a lot more, maybe because I thought it was a cessation? I wasn't immediately though and it didn't feel like a big deal. I was just like Oh, ok. This has been happening for years though and I always have questioned what it was. It happens particularly when I'm welding and I'm focusing on the arc. It can also happen repeatedly.

But mind really just makes me fucking sick. The piece of fucking shit sack of a mind is so irritating It's unbearable. I want it really badly to shut the fuck up. Not like oh shoosh you more like FUCKEN STOP yOu CUNT!!!! Let me be please just leave me alone and I cry at how painful it is..
George S, modified 2 Months ago.

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I really don't know about the "cessations" and I wouldn't worry about it, because it's not something you can control and it's the practice itself that's important not the side effects.

Thoughts can be torturing but really they are a reflection of what's going on in the body with the emotions. So the more you can sit and feel into what's going on in the body beneath the thoughts, the more relief you will get from them (even though that feeling-in may well feel like it's worse at first).
  
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Thanks George, appreciate it. I'm lying in bed and going to do a little noting before sleep. But yes I see the A&P in my log and then the down fall into dukkha nanas. I'll sit tomorrow night. I am seeing my therapist in a week and really need it. The mind is struggling and needing to intellectualise everything. BUT I do have a strong faith that I'll be fine and everything will be ok. Sorry for the swear words, I'm just really frustrated. 
George S, modified 2 Months ago.

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 No worries, that's just what the mind does! It's not like it totally has to stop, it's more like it becomes a kind of running joke (let's see what kind of crap my mind can cook up out of this situation ... oh wow, that's a good one, 10/10 for effort emoticon
George S, modified 2 Months ago.

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One thing I would suggest, if you can do some longer sits (2-3 hours) then that might help. Once you can go through that whole A&P -> DN -> EQ cycle in a single sit then it really puts the off-cushion cycling into a lighter perspective.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Ok, I've only ever managed 90 min. Maybe it's time I step it up a notch. What should I do for physical pain that's not bareable? My hip becomes very tight and painful.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Months ago.

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I second sitting more when in Dukkha Nanas. No need to sit for 3 hours in one go. 3x60 minutes will also do. Maybe some walking meditation inbetween these 3 sessions, or even just relax do whatever between the sits (I would go walk my dog then back and sit again) Weekends are a gold mine for such sits emoticon 

I would not start too early but waited to wake up and feel energetic (a few coffee cups and nice walk) so around 10h I would do my first sit, then around 12h another and 14h the 3rd sit. This was normal for me when in DN.

Forget about the CONTENT of your sensate expereince (tthughts about ex girlfriend, guilt trips ets) and just label them for what they are, like; thinking, unpleasant, feeling, unpleasant, itching, unpleasant, hearing, unpleasant, innability to sit, restlesness, unpleasant ... etc ... get going and DO NOT GIVE UP before the timer actually chimes in emoticon Acceptance of all the nasty stuff is VERY IMPORTANT emoticon 

Best wishes and dont fear labeling your very own expereince as it arise-pass emoticon You can do this!
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Ok thanks papa. I'll do that. Upon waking up I have music stuck in my head, almost constantly but it actually tells me to a degree where im at with the content of what is being said! So there is fear, lump in my throat and jittery, I close my eyes and everything is trembling and shakes like it's all going to get ripped apart. Upon working though this clears up and im happy singing and enjoying stuff AP maybe. Then I get home and im tired and exhausted and restless. 3cs. So yeah looks like im cycling through it, I need to admit that to myself. I just get thoughts of me being a child and think omg I've been cycling the whole time? Maybe not and not important, I guess mind will join up specific experiences together and make a mess out of it all again putting me into DN territory and the cycle just keeps repeating itself. I need escape velocity.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Months ago.

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Can't tell about your experience but in my case I would not cycle so fast. If I'm practicing daily then it would take 4-6 weeks between each stage. 

Also I'm fortunate I guess as I never obsessed with the map. For me it was enough to know that this shit is true. I could see it in my direct experience unfolding in this way as described by Mahasi/Ingram. 

What is important is to (as Ingram say) apply yourself to the simple dummy style noting of matter of fact sensate phenomena and NOT ABSTRACT it emoticon or get lost in the content of the sensate experience. 

Then you forget about ever having chance to attain to anything and all you have left is this noble practice. And you are so greatful as you realize how many beings don't even have the knowledge of this practice, let alone attain to awakening. 

emoticon Embrace Thisness unfolding, 1-5 sensations a second for the duration of any sit and threat it as the only thing you really can attain to. This Right Now. 
Relaxing the body often and accepting all sensations humbly. You can even cry if it become too miserable and unbearable but increase the noting voice so you really add energy to it so to not give up. I remember my last re-observation and it was very miserable and disgusting and unbearable but I just increased the volume of my voice (was alone at home) and with a miserable and disqust day facial expression kept on noting ; disqust, misery, misery, unpleasant, unpleasant, disqust, dusqust, misery, hearing, imagining, misery, disqust, unpleasant ... I totally was into acceptance of all and totally forgot about the timer. However timer did chime at one stage and I knew something felt much lighter after this sit. Soon after EQ Nana started to unfold. 

These heavy sits are keys to solid equanimity. You really let these things arise-pass in utter acceptance without resistance. 

Once in EQ Nana do not cling to it out of fear that you might fall back into DN. Otherwise exactly that might happen emoticon Again just acceptance of this new stage ... how does it feel? How does it look? Gently keep noting and observing. 

​​​​​​​Best wishes George! 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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Ok thanks Papa, I don't quite know what you mean about being in a stage for 4-5 weeks? I'm going around in circles all day everyday how do you slow it down? 

I think also that trusting the practice is a large part of all this for me. Going into hospital and getting on medication has helped though and I do trust that I'll get through it. Faith is there, unfortunately so was my ex girlfriend and I got really sideswiped by my games and hers. This now I believe has been put to bed, ie (we have both agreed not to contact each other). I know though once I sit there its going to be a shit show of emotions and I really have to get my noting in check now. It's the only thing that's going to save my ass. Thanks for your advice and help Papa.

Having said all that I'm going to attempt 1 hour tonight. That's my goal noting 1-5 with acceptance and humility. 

Ok I managed 45 mins. A lot of resistance, fatigue, out cold, waking up, head hanging down, difficult, frustrated. I actually feel different after. I don't know where I'm at but there was some purification happening and I feel better for sitting, even if it was mostly fatigue. Have to keep going, I feel like I have regressed but I should get back into the swing of things with dedicated practice.

I'm going to sit again for 45 min, noting 1-5 with as much humility and acceptance I can muster. Just going to have a little break and reenergise.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Months ago.

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I did not slow it down. It just was like that for me post A&P if practicing daily (not talking several hours retreat stuff which apparently can go faster cycling but I have limited retreat experience). 

​​​​​​​But we are not all the same. So all good emoticon 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Yep cool, gotcha! Ok sat for another 45 min tonight & it was peaceful and effortless no noting required. Sent love and kindness to my ex again and then everyone in the house and random people that popped up into my head. I'm guessing this was AP because there was strong tension and pain in the shoulder blade area that may indicate 3cs and that slowly faded and I was just content. It wasn't mind blowing though. Everything was just nice I was relaxed, for the first time in what feels like an eternity. Metta to everyone!

Now I'm starting to feel DN stuff, doubt, uncertainty, fear, instability, frustration, lump in my throat. It's midnight now & im tired so I'll note as I'm laying down & observe 
Sam Gentile, modified 2 Months ago.

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Now I'm starting to feel DN stuff, doubt, uncertainty, fear, instability, frustration, lump in my throat. It's midnight now & im tired so I'll note as I'm laying down & observe 
AND
that will pass because it's all impermanent and you will be in another state when you wake up
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Hey Sam YES! I am reaching equanimity!!! There is an okness to everything, like yeah cool, everything gonna be ok. when I feel it I'm like ohhh everything is "good" and then fear comes back and my body becomes jittery. Haha, but then when I'm at work, I become lost, I truly disappear and when work has finished I'm like oh fuck "I" come back and I'm tired I have to go through all this stuff again! Haha weird!
Sam Gentile, modified 2 Months ago.

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george
Hey Sam YES! I am reaching equanimity!!! There is an okness to everything, like yeah cool, everything gonna be ok. when I feel it I'm like ohhh everything is "good" and then fear comes back and my body becomes jittery. Haha, but then when I'm at work, I become lost, I truly disappear and when work has finished I'm like oh fuck "I" come back and I'm tired I have to go through all this stuff again! Haha weird!

Excellent! It's such  a relief of calmness and everything is good when Equanmity comes back out of the Dark Night. The fear and jitteriness just means the cycle is not perfectly linear. You are going to oscillate back and forth for a while. May you practice well!
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Awesome thanks Sam. I can handle the jitteriness, no problemo. I just cling to the feeling of equanimity! The moment I say everything is "good" I get fearful. So I guess I just have to see everything as it really is.

I sat for 45 min last night in emotional torment and pain, then head hanging, difficult, longing, desire, overwhelmed, disgusted, miserable. Today I woke up to feeling fine, no troubles upon knowing this though I get a little jittery. Tonight I sit again. Metta to everyone

Also forgot to mention I don't have a big desire for things when in equanimity, sex is like whatever, food I don't even need to eat, I'm completely content sitting or walking or whatever. I don't feel like time is being wasted, ever. When I pick up a tool at work "I think it might be the incorrect tool" I then just let go of that and go and check it on a car. It's sometimes the correct tool and sometimes the wrong tool so I go back again and choose another tool. That initial thought pops into my head again but I'm like meh ok, let's go and check. It sounds like a boring exercise but it's actually amazing to see how things unfold when you let go, really beautiful. Before I would've thrown the tool around and swore and lost my marbles. 
George S, modified 2 Months ago.

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george
I just cling to the feeling of equanimity! The moment I say everything is "good" I get fearful.

A good way to get over your fears is to expose yourself to them (in a controlled fashion). So you could play a game where you get into equanimity and then intentionally disturb it by saying to yourself 'everything is good!' Watch how the fear arises in the body, develops and passes, relaxing back into equanimity. Keep repeating the game until it doesn't make you fearful any more!
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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George S
george
I just cling to the feeling of equanimity! The moment I say everything is "good" I get fearful.

A good way to get over your fears is to expose yourself to them (in a controlled fashion). So you could play a game where you get into equanimity and then intentionally disturb it by saying to yourself 'everything is good!' Watch how the fear arises in the body, develops and passes, relaxing back into equanimity. Keep repeating the game until it doesn't make you fearful any more!
Yes that's excellent. Thanks George 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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I'm going to sit on a pillow for an hour.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Months ago.

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"you can try the best you can, best you can is good enough"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWqDIZxO-nU&t=1591s
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Papa Che Dusko
"you can try the best you can, best you can is good enough"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWqDIZxO-nU&t=1591s

Thanks Papa. Beautiful music. I did some self enquiry just then. Writing responses to myself back and forth. That really gets the heart pumping. Hahaha. I'm going to sit now.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Last night I managed to sit for 45 min again head hanging and fallling asleep so I just stopped. I think today I'm going to keep sitting through this though head hanging business even though I'm falling asleep etc. I keep thinking this is "bad" and nothing is working, so I'm not going to do that anymore. Woke up in fear state, jitters, don't need a coffee, got a smile on my face though, like I have a secret. Mona Lisa style. 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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I need this to be a seperate post.

I sat on a pillow for over an hour. Jittery and fearful at the start, energy going from tummy, heart, 3rd eye, to crown and back down again, mind was getting fearful when crown was felt and it just went down. But then I can just will it to go back up or wherever I want. I say be fearful, my heart starts pounding and I'm scared then I say feel love. Now this can't be done as easily because love is letting go of having to feel "anything". So you actually just sit with the fear and forget about remembering. 

After about an hour though my hip pain was excruciating, I said I'm not getting up until I see through it. Time ALMOST stood still, it became very slow 10 mins felt like 1 hour. NOW THIS IS LIVING! It was so painful I started to shake and become jittery and I still am shaking and had to just stop because mind was like I can't do this! One day mind won't have to anything!!

Going to sit again just to relax. Phew
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Months ago.

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You can also sit on a normal chair. No need to sit in so much pain. 

What i do if sitting on a chair;
chairs in Denmark for some reason are made so they all lean backwards a bit. So I find two small wooden pieces made of plywood and place them under the hind legs to level the chair some (I prefer it leaning forward slightly) Then place a pillow on the chair slightly thicker towards the back.  Feet on the ground. Straight back. 

Best wishes George! 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Thanks Papa! I'll look into getting a chair designed for my sitting purposes. Yeah I agree the pain thing is not necessary. Concentration, clarity and equanimity are though. Thank you.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Growing tenfold, sometimes shaking while doing it. Going to have a steaming hot shower and then practice.

On another note women just amaze me. I can’t believe their innate ability to just love unconditionally. It’s like where the fuck you get all that from? Trick question. They really just blow my mind and heart and I wouldn’t know what to do if I never had women in my life. So I'm forvever grateful for the feminine energy. I understand that people can be manipulative men and women, but right now I just see unconditional love.

I'd say this is A&P territory but meh. I'm still going to practice regardless of where I am.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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I sat for 1 hour just resting in awareness. Glorious, glorious glorious. Upon coming out though I get a little jittery but the jitteryness goes and peace comes again. 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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I'm absolutely gutted and ashamed in myself. I have a very dominant male behaviour at times which just lets rip. It's very damaging and manipulative. I feel like a really horrible person. I really hurt someone, my words, despite having the best intentions were forced upon them. Oh my god. I feel like I can't trust someone or myself with people. I always fuck things up, that's why I keep my distance. I'm seeing my therapist tomorrow and will definitely talk about this.

I'm going to sit for an hour in love and kindness

what am I actually trying to do in this life? To love, to be liberated at the expense of others? How is this fair? How does my selfish need to become liberated justify pain that is shared? Rumi says that the heart needs to be broken in order for it to open. Sorry for cliche. But doesn't breaking it require pain and suffering to be inflicted? Don't people become hurt in the process? I know Daniel talks about this at length, I'm absolutely heart broken at my actions. 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Ok things are clearer now. I have a fear of intimacy coupled with a fear of abandonment. I avoid getting close with people because I don't want to lose them or be rejected. Especially romantic relationships. I haven't had sex with a woman for over 5 years and it's because I fear an intimate connection. As soon as I initiate a conversation with a potential partner I FREAK the fuck out, make up some shit excuse why something can't continue and run away not having to deal with being rejected. It's been very overwhelming coming to this realisation and it's obviously only going to get deeper and more uncomfortable but it's something I definitely need to tackle because it's been limiting me my WHOLE life and I want a romantic beautiful relationship with a loving, caring, kind woman! I see my therapist tomorrow and will talk at great length to her about it. Thanks to those for there words and may we all awaken!
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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I saw my therapist today and I also have broken communication off with my ex for the 4th time? This time we both strongly agreed that what we're doing (despite there being no physical sex) is just wrong. It's hurting ourselves and really damaging our idea of what's valuable in a partner. I'm going to see my therapist again in the next 2 weeks. I really need to work through some relationship and attachment issues. Tonight im just going to try and relax. 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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So after seeing my therapist and doing some research I think I may have borderline personality disorder. She never said so but the things she was saying suggested this. I will obviously run this by her. Why do I think this? I have Intense fear of abandonment, terror like and then I go avoidant on people. I have done this a lot with friendships too. I fall in love and then this impending doom comes over me, I freak out and instead of facing this fear I avoid the person and judge them as manipulative or shit. This is what was happening in my correspondence with my ex. She's a lovely person, big heart but I felt manipulated (she is married), that fear of abandonment sinks in and I run. she was like what the hell is going on with you? You're so black and white!  i was confused i didnt know what i was experiencing and here is a married woman telling me she loves me, i tell her I love her back But then I get fear of abandonment and avoid her, sounds reasonable though because she's a married woman! That's why I was confused. After I go avoidant, instead of feeling the rejection I get angry at the person then I feel guilty for being angry at them. Then this all starts again. This fear of abandonment I remember has been with me from a very young age I definitely had it with my ex when I was 15 and before that with other girls. That's when I started drinking so as to avoid this fear. I do remember a teacher in primary school, calling me "a dirty dirty dog" for following a girl around in grade 5-6. Maybe that? Anyway I've been crying and I'm just lying down. It's kinda hard hearing that you most probably have had a serious mental health issue all your life without even knowing until 35. But I guess I knew that already as I have been struggling my whole life. I made it this far though and it's getting better so why not stick it out. The bouts of anger, guilt with people has dropped off substantially and now I'll be paying a lot more attention to my actions in relationships and be a little more accepting. I also see bpd in the things I do, I'll happily admit I'm wrong, say sorry a lot, submit in the hopes i don't feel fear. When I mentioned I had a doubt problem I think it's really fear. Intense fear, I fucking hate fear because for me, at least in the past fear has been VERY intense. Anyway I feel a little better after writing this. If there is anyone that can provide support I'd like that very much and if you don't I'll hate you and tell you to fuck off and avoid you, just letting you know in advance. Haha. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Months ago.

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Edit - post deleted (I was not thinking straight, my bad, apologies). 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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All good papa, I kinda laughed and then thought ohhhh na I'm really suffering here. No your comment wasn't the reason for feeling overwhelmed. I was already overwhelmed. I pushed myself too far again trying to help people without considering what it was doing to me. All good mate, really. Thanks 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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I'm hyperaroused. There's weird sounds kinda exploding in my head. I'm feeling overwhelmed. This is exactly what happened before hospital a few years ago. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Months ago.

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Relax mate emoticon I was kidding. I apologise for saying what I did above (if that is the reason for feeling overwhelmed) emoticon As George S say , you are doing this the right way; Therapy and Meditation and you take it easy, not jumping to conclusions and taking one step at a time. 

Many of us here have been through this , also on meds, and we made it through (work is never done-done but the worst is behind us). You are doing great to keep the Therapy as main thing right now and Meditation secondary. There will be time for digging again into meditation once stuff balances out via therapy.

Wishing you all the best and hang in there george!
George S, modified 2 Months ago.

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I would be wary of imposing a black and white diagnosis of personality disorder on yourself. Clearly there are clearly some deep and powerful issues here for you, and your therapist has a particular kind of insight into this stuff, but as a meditator you also have a powerful ability to work with this stuff. A lot of these “disorders” exist on a spectrum and it’s necessary for mental health professionals to draw a line somewhere, but individual cases are often more nuanced and complex. Also, before beating yourself up over it, consider that many people go through their entire lives with much more serious issues and never stop to examine them at all - they just blindly act them out on everyone around them. The fact that you are aware of this issue at all and looking to address it is because you are a conscientious and caring person who wants to do the right thing by yourself and others, so give yourself a pat on the back (even if that’s the last thing you feel like doing).

The incident with the teacher doesn’t sound like an abandonment issue, more of a sexual shaming issue if anything. I don’t know a lot about this stuff, but I think that abandonment issues can develop really early depending on the attachment style to the primary caregiver. It may well be something you don’t even remember, e.g. how often you were held and soothed as a baby.

I guess the main thing I’m trying to say is DON’T’ FREAK OUT ABOUT IT! As shargrol always says, therapy and meditation is a very powerful combination – actually it’s meditation which really enables you to get the full benefit of therapy. I have no doubt that you will be able to get to the bottom of this issue with therapy and meditation, and feel much better about yourself in due course.
george, modified 2 Months ago.

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Ok I managed to fall asleep in a pool of cold sweat. Papa all good man, I apologise if I freaked you out with my freak out! Im kinda back online and I managed to NOT reach out to my ex and completely lose it. Phew. That was hairy. Thanks guys. Might take today off to relax and have some fun, eat, sexy stuff whatever. I'm going to shower pleasant stuff on my body.

I'm doing this to myself to a degree, yes some people can be responsible for bringing some part of you out but really it's my stuff here. I have to respect the stuff and learn to not do that.

Peace, tranquility is always the answer. Sometimes habit energies just completely blindside you. 

I want to reiterate things I'm going to do so that I feel better.

!!!!NOT self diagnose!!! hot showers, massage, go for a run, sex, yum food, breathing, getting back to enjoyment of my job and just taking it easy. I glad this happened 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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So I'm feeling crappy crying etc. but I reckon I really NEED to meditate now. It's going to do me more good if I keep going. I'm just tentative.

I think meditation is supposed to feel good! It tells us HOW to live life. It shows us how to love effectively but also guides us towards true love.

Sat for 40 min noting 1-3 and I feel a lot better. A big weight off my shoulders. There is guilt, shame, anger, fear, loss and then it all just melted away and I rested in peace and serenity. Still jittery after the sit, but faith is stronger now.
George S, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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It's possible that the attachment issue is being mirrored in the meditation cycle of finding love (A&P) vs fear/losing love (DN)
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Then realising I'm love itself, equanimity. There are very eye opening stuff happening around me though when I cycle. People go through emotional turmoil themselves when I am which gives me the idea that highly sensitive people or empaths are real. This can also give insight though into the interconnected ness of everyone. It's very difficult to take in but I believe people are taking on my burden or I'm taking on there's or we're taking it on together? Do I still believe in noting and seeing things the way they are? Absolutely! There's no doubt in my mind that I'm a very sensitive person and that I feel things with a lot of intensity, it really becomes too much and I ask myself is this worth it? What do I need to make this all a little less serious right now? I think I might have to either close my emotional borders off, take another medication that helps with the intensity of emotions, or note my ass off. I suspect that it's going to have to be ALL 3 of those things. Also I'd like to mention that all these things are felt as tangible sensations, except for intuition which I never knew existed until now so I'm confused. I'm trying to understand something intangible  that's happening as tangible and it frustrates me. I officially don't know what I'm talking about
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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Have you considered meeting with Daniel Ingram over Zoom? As far as I know he does that for free and is very willing to help out. Just send him an email (on his web page) and I'm sure some good stuff will come out of it. 

You need a bit of clarity , a right perspective to get you going again. Seems like you are in a rough spot and the last thing you want is working out of panic and overexcitement. 

Please do consider this possibility emoticon 
Wishing you all the best George! 
George S, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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First of all, it's very common after awakening/opening experiences for old emotional & psychological stuff to come up, so this kind of thing is very normal and not to freak out about (even although I'm sure it feels very concerning to you right now). 

The empath thing is definitely real. We can all pick up a huge amount of energy (including mental, emotional & psychological states) from other people, and likewise they can pick the same up from us. And with certain people these patterns will reinforce each other and you can get locked into a kind of escalation cycle. You've mentioned boundaries before and this is where it becomes really important to notice which people have what effects on you. There are definitely periods where you need to take time off from certain people (and I know you are already doing that), even although there may be all sorts of feelings and thoughts of guilt and obligation, while you create enough space to figure out what's going on and what your real needs are in terms of other people.

Medications which help in the short-term can be very important. Good therapy is probably essential (and if you feel that you are not getting to the bottom of it with your current therapist, then no guilt about bringing this up and/or trying someone else). Noting/vipassana is great when you are feeling relatively stable, but when you are feeling ungrounded then it can easily escalate things. Yes everything is “just sensations” on the most fundamental level, but when you are dealing with strong emotional & psychological patterns going back to childhood then it really helps to develop an understanding of your personal history and to be able to put it into the context of common developmental patterns which develop under certain specific conditions.

This type of binary thinking with regard to love does seem reflective of attachment type issues – either true love or nothing, either emotional borders fully open or closed off etc. But this is really not the kind of thing that can be diagnosed and worked with by strangers over the internet, I think you need to work with someone who really gets to understand you and your specific developmental situation. Once you get that storyline clearer in your mind then I think the meditation can come back online and help with untangling the root emotional knots as felt physical sensations. But doing that untangling using vipassana without a good psychological roadmap could be unnecessarily difficult, to say the least …
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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No I haven't considered that. I have emailed him before and he has helped though. So I'll consider that option too. I just have no idea what to ask him.

Yeah rough spot is a good description. I took a day off work, did some exercise, I'm feeling mostly stable but shaky, I picked up some meds which I'm still considering taking and have my cat next to me. So I'm in my comfort zone.

Ok I'm reading Daniels book again. The unhelpful models section and it's made me realise something. Psychological disorders? Empath? Aren't we all empaths on a different level to a degree? Energy is being transmitted all the time and has nothing to do with me or another person! Pretty messy business here. I'm stable but not grounded and I need to get a grip. Sensations are just that, sensations! They're not a psychological disorder, they're not some concept, they're the phenomenological thing that's happening in my body and that's it. Im feeling peaceful atm. This peace is impermanent, not self and unsatisfactory. 

Daniels words, thanks Dan!
​​​​​​​
Before I get too far into the details, I should explain that the most essential principle I wish to drive home is that this is it, meaning that this moment’s sensations contain truth. Any model that tries to drive a wedge between the specifics of what is happening in your world right now and what awakening entails needs to be considered with great pragmatic skepticism. With the simple exception of clearly perceiving sensations occurring now and seeing through the illusion of a separate, continuous individual, nearly all remaining dreams related to awakening, however beautiful, are problematic to some degree. This basic principle of this is it is essential to practice, as it focuses attention on the here and now, and happens to be true. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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"This basic principle of this is it is essential to practice, as it focuses attention on the here and now, and happens to be true. "

Even the thoughts about "this is it and true" are seen in here and now. emoticon
I see you have climbed back on the horse again emoticon Good man! Say hi to your cat! 

Best wishes! 
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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Thanks George and Papa. What I really want to do is all those things in unison. Noting, Meds and inner child psychology.

The meds do hide the intensity of emotions so I want to try and balance it so that I have some relief but also have stuff to work with. With time I'll taper off meds and deal with more stuff if or when it comes up.

Noting, I'm not going to stop, I'm stable enough to keep going but I'm going to change my style and slow it down. I want to learn to be more precise. Really feel a sensation clearly and then note it. Also only use the labels touch, sight, sound, hearing thought, seeing thought when sitting.

Inner child work is a definite must for me and that's what I'll be doing with my psychologist, she is very good and I trust her. I've been seeing her for a few years and she knows me. This is where noting and inner child work really merge because inner child work is feeling the sensations but naming them as an emotion (guilt, fear, shame) and basically trying to understand on a fundamental level that there is nothing wrong them. Feeling them as a child was just that, certain situations condition you to experience these emotions and it's ok because I'm here now, not there. There obviously has to be a level of intellectual understanding to understand these traumas and that's being done.

When you say binary thinking of love it's really not clear to me. My mind doesn't get what that even means because I never learnt to do it any other way. I know I'm not doing anything wrong I just can't see how it's supposed to be? I really don't understand love! This I suspect would come down to attachment issues which have to be dealt with. I'd say I'm the avoidant type, as I used to drink a lot to get intimate with someone to hide the feelings of abandonment. Now I'm not engaging in any relationship, I'm just avoiding it all together.

Boundaries is a big thing. When I was younger I had so many girls and women wanting my attention, I liked it but at the same time I found it very confusing, overwhelming and felt a lot of pressure to provide for all of them. I've let women take what they wanted from me without me considering my needs. I have also taken things from women without considering their needs.

When I first went into hospital this was precisely what I was experiencing in a really big fucked up messy way and instead of it being a teenage partner it was my parents. So it's the same attachment issue but this time it's a lot clearer and I didn't feel the need to go to hospital. I see this all as a win.

Work to do on all levels.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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George, one thing you can always do with Noting in overwhelming situations is to remain with body sensations. Keep returning to body sensations as they are more grounding and can take the edge off of your shoulders. Also have your favorite body sensation to often return to. Being focused on mind states too much and forgeting the body sensations can get pretty nasty and overwhelming. 

Also every so often Relax the Whole Body by giving it a gentle quick scan. I find outbreathing usually relaxes the body well. See if you are tending the neck or shoulders or legs or hands or the jaw ... if so relax and keep on noting in a relaxed and accepting manner. 

Best wishes! 
George S, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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Sounds like a good plan! You know what the basic issues are - which is already a huge progress - and now it's a question of taking the time to work through them in a way that feels right for you. Everything happens in its own time emoticon
george, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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Thanks guys. The last couple of nights I have been noting 1-3 for 45 min. Just plain sensory noting. Sitting is great, gives me great peace. Outside sitting my head is on fire, lots of insight, body is relaxed though due to meds so I just relax in body.

Ive never taken LSD in my life but I think I know what it feels like now.
george, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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I had this dream last night and it was Very vivid. I was on what seemed to be an island. My family was there but there were a tribe of people with us. We were being held captive and held under control by some ruler dude.  I was like fuck this and wanted to save everyone but in particular my family. There was a big treacherous cliff face, rocky with trees and shrubs around and I had to get to the top to see the layout of this island and devise a plan for escape. So I began my ascent I got to the top and at the top I saw the island and the regime that held us captive. There was also a flashing red light and a main road, so I was like this is odd, We’re really NOT stranded at all! To hell with that though. I needed to save people that clearly didn’t need saving. I got down and said to my mum in excitement “mum I got to the top, I saw the red flashing light!” She smiled and was excited too, we couldn’t believe I saw the light. I never told her though that I saw the main road! Probably could’ve saved us a lot of effort. The dream then went to all the people being bound and marched along a dirt road to meet their maker, I was watching is happen though. The hero obviously cannot be bound going to die, I was just thinking about what I should be doing to save all these people!Then I was in a 4x4. Not driving but in the back seat. I had a license plate in my hand that was in pieces. Lots of weird shapes. The sections of identification plate had markings on them that in some way could trace us/vehicle back to the ruler. So I started to peel off these markings as if they were stickers and then leisurely throwing them out the car window so as to get of any dirty evidence. I remember turning around watching them tumble about as the pieces finally came to their resting spot. That’s pretty damn interesting!
If I may, could I possibly interpret this dream?
Climbing the mountain was like climbing the mountain of meditation. Clear vantage point of seeing things, also seeing freedom but not taking that option. I know that the option “the main road” is right in front of me but I can’t see it clearly enough.
Then telling my mum I saw the light! Was a way of telling her that I was doing this for her and family. I say to myself, can you love me now? What else do i have to do? I climbed a whole mountain, I’ve seen the light, I’ve seen the fucking road. Love me damn it! I don’t realise though that the main road/love is right there at the top not at the bottom telling my mum that I’ve seen it.
Then sitting in the 4x4 I had pieces of vehicle identification. These pieces were me! My alter egos, the parts that make “me” and I was stripping them away effortlessly. Dissolving deep impressions as if they were stickers. Then throwing the pieces out of the car watching them tumble about, rest and disappear

There's a lot more to this dream then first appeared. Like getting to the top and seeing the RED light and then seeing the road AND not following the road to see where that goes.
George S, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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Fascinating dream ... it could almost be a roadmap to awakening for you! On some level we know that we are not really captive, or at least that this whole captivity situation is a creation of our own mind. We even know where the main road is, but for some reason we have to spend some time convincing ourself that we need to climb that steep cliff in order to save ourself/others ... until one day we get tired of doing that to ourself and just like that, the light changes from red to green emoticon   
george, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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Sat for 50 min. Started noting but then it was just rest. Peace, everything that came up was fine. Mind was very distant, i could hear the mind chattering but I couldn't make out the words, it was very quiet. The ringing in my ears was louder. Body was still there, a little tension in the back and some hip pain. It was so good. Everything was even, like very calm water. The dust settled. I'd say this is equanimity. I don't know for certain though and that's ok too. I feel kinda drugged. Oh it's nice. I know I should be noting this too but daaaamn it's nice. One day when I get over it I guess
george, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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Waking up this morning to feeling jittery, tense, sensations in chest, dropping down into tummy. Going to sit for 1 hour now.

So I sat for an hour, I started noting but it just didn't happen for long and I just started to rest in the body. I think this is samatha, funny how the body or something just decides what practice you do. Anyway it was very tranquil, body was there I think but it was this blob of vibration, there was no arm, leg, back, head. It was all vibration. Thoughts were there but hardly noticed them. I was just sitting with this soft soothing vibrational blob. I think I'm becoming a jhana junkie! Haha

I had no idea that samadhi referred to jhana. Well now I do & now I kinda know that what I'm experiencing isn't vipassana jhana, it's the other jhana. Can't remember. Cooooool. Now I also know I can note it! But I alternate from jhana to vipassana noting in my sits. Is that ok?

when the jhanic qualities wear off I'm back to feeling jittery & tense though. So I'm naturally just avoiding the fear and going jhana. I can see it now. Maybe this is wrong & I'll change my mind. Should really take this as a grain of salt.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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We are awakening to Everything , meaning also Jhana absorption and Hell and all the shades of grey In between emoticon 

This journey has much to do with developing of Dispassion for transient, non self experiences, as they cause suffering if there is clinging involved. 

It's fine to just experiment and see what's going on in tranquil absorptions. 
It's a bit like having sex the very first time; it's AMAZING! I want this Again!!! emoticon Then after one had sex 100 times it's not as shiny and special as it was the first time. Then one tries new sex tricks to gain some fresh novelty to get more of that Amazing feel. This is clinging, hence Dukkha. One does it until one realizes that all this clinging to transient experience leads to suffering.

So dispassion will develop and one will see that there is freedom in seeing things just as they are, arise and pass away, never satisfy and are not self. 

You sure can Notice the experience when in concentration absorption. 
It's a bit like this; when I was a kid watching television, my mom would call me several times and I would not hear her at all, eventhough she was beside me. I was totally absorbed in that TV Story. I was not aware (able to notice) body sensation or even knowing that I was in the living room. 

Same can happen in Jhana. One can get utterly lost in that Jhana TV Story emoticon not aware of anything else. As long you can notice/clearly comprehanding it's pleasant, that you like it and desire it, body sensations vibrating etc ... you are doing fine job! emoticon 

Best wishes! 
george, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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Haha, thanks Papa for the great sex analogy. Onwards and upwards or wards should I say no vector necessary. 

I sat for 45 min tried to note and couldn't. I then tried to just relax and I did relax but samadhi wasn't as deep as I would've liked! Regardless I sat and that's the end of that.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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I'm probably talking much rubbish emoticon don't take my words too seriously! 
george, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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All good. It was helpful, thanks man. 
george, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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Can someone describe "luminosity" to me? I know im trying to see if I got "stream entry" it's really beyond that now. I've never read about luminosity much, so I can't exactly remember how people describe it.

Here is what I think it is. It's not here at the moment though. Please take the words for what they literally mean and maybe even a little more : )) Everything is bright and vivid. Colour esp pops. But there's this other thing in everything that dances, or everything dances? I'm talking from memory here not current experience, I feel like I know what it is though. Or im just delirious. Kinda scary to think that i could be seriously losing my marbles. But if there is no mind that holds marbles then that's not possible. I don't think it's psychosis, which is a scary thought, because I'm aware with what's happening here. Scary thought is fearful thought and that's it. These sensations are just sensations and that's it. 

I think I'm going to talk to Daniel.
george, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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Ahhhhh. Yesterday morning I had a AP, quick flash of light. Something just blinked very quickly. The sit was very pleasant. I then went and done some work outside & then sat again and I couldn't note or get in samadhi for shit! This morning I'm feeling very fearful. So there you have it, I can see it clearer now.

I get excited and get all Jesus Christ savior/ 4th path meditation master/ thinking ive been through all this before and then FEAR (with whatever content) rubbish, damn it! It's Fukn all rubbish!!!!! Tonight I'm going to push a hardcore noting session. Fuck dukkha nanas. It reminds me of how people used to traditionally wash clothes - in a river and then beating the clothes against a rock.

I don't feel graceful at all. It's as if I'm tripping everywhere and hitting my head, knees, elbows on the ground. I feel like an inept, pathetic, human who is flailing around like a fuck wit. Yes I know this is misery. I'm just sitting in misery right now. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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Ehm, ... emoticon George could you maybe start reporting in this log (or new log even) about you matter of fact sensate experience? 

You seem to talk about the content of your experience a lot. It ain't so important. 

Im sure folk here would much appreciate if you actually report for each sit how , for example, an itch was perceived (sharp needle like, vibrant, bubbling, pulsating, pleasant, neutral, unpleasant) than all this chatter about fucking Dukkha emoticon 

Body sensations are very important.
Report on the body tension or stiffness, or relaxation and joy. Report on the breathing itself. Is the inbreath long or short? Is the outbreath long or short?
Can you sense the whole body or are parts missing (as in can't sense anything in my feel or arms or etc ) 

Image space; is something happening there? What? 

Feeling tone like pleasant, neutral or unpleasant etc ... 

Im sure your practice attitude will change for better if you start respecting you logging this way. emoticon but it's just my hunch of course, I might be wrong (you can tell me to fuck off). 

Best wishes for sure! emoticon 
Sam Gentile, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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george
Ahhhhh. Yesterday morning I had a AP, quick flash of light. Something just blinked very quickly. The sit was very pleasant. I then went and done some work outside & then sat again and I couldn't note or get in samadhi for shit! This morning I'm feeling very fearful. So there you have it, I can see it clearer now.

I get excited and get all Jesus Christ savior/ 4th path meditation master/ thinking ive been through all this before and then FEAR (with whatever content) rubbish, damn it! It's Fukn all rubbish!!!!! Tonight I'm going to push a hardcore noting session. Fuck dukkha nanas. It reminds me of how people used to traditionally wash clothes - in a river and then beating the clothes against a rock.

I don't feel graceful at all. It's as if I'm tripping everywhere and hitting my head, knees, elbows on the ground. I feel like an inept, pathetic, human who is flailing around like a fuck wit. Yes I know this is misery. I'm just sitting in misery right now. 

Just how many A=Ps do you think you are hving? Just lights? No rapture? And you go immedietly in the Dukka Nanas without a period of feeling good? The rest of this gibberish I can't comprehend. 
george, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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Hahaha ok, yes. It's getting pretty messy. Regular program as of tomorrow night. Sorry everyone for being a whinging, content proliferating, bullshit talker. I'll try and leave it to my therapy sessions! Or I might just get my shit together before I post anymore stuff. That's it from me for now!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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No need to apologize. I also talk rubbish here emoticon 

Might be easier for people to answer your questions if they know more about your sensate experience. That's all. And maybe it's going to give you a more sober approach to insigh practice. So to speak emoticon 
I might be wrong. Feel free to slap me and hand me to me mama emoticon 
george, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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Haha, you're right papa, thanks. Just have to recalibrate. 
george, modified 23 Days ago.

RE: George practice Log 4

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So about a month ago I stopped sitting practice, the striving was too great. Really not worth pushing it in my book. So I've been chilling for a bit, now & ive restarted sitting practice, not that there is any real difference to waking and walking though.
I sat for 45 min and can see cycles clearer. A&P dissolution and a cessation. It's a flicker and then a big opening like vibration. I've had these while working at work too but first time noticing it on the cushion. If there is someone thats noticing stuff it doesn't happen though. I let go of noting and noticing almost like a forgetting, synching up too. I've heard of other teachers say "stop the search" another great way of putting it. Around 19 I woke up to my suffering. I'm now 35 and I'm remembering to be like a child again, connected and in tune. I remember it too. It's like a warm soft feeling, the body is vibrating along with its surroundings and there's no boundary of body to outside environment. Very nice. I then opened my eyes and moved around and (kinda saw?) a mirror image of me, no face or anything like a subtle body? And it moved a long with me.
Anyway I'm going to clean my car.

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