What are the differences between fruition and NS?

Brandon Michael Rohe, modified 1 Month ago.

What are the differences between fruition and NS?

Posts: 12 Join Date: 6/1/21 Recent Posts
From MCTB on Fruition: "In this non-state, there is absolutely no time, no space, no reference point, no experience, no mind, no consciousness, no awareness, no background, no foreground, no nothingness, no somethingness, no body, no this, no that, no unity, no duality, and no anything else. “Reality” stops cold and then reappears." 

MCTB on NS: "Please also note that, like Fruition, there is no experience at all during NS. There is no time, no space, no something, no nothing, not anything at all. Just as a desktop computer shuts down totally when you press the power button, so too with anything to do with experience in NS." 

If fruition is no experience how is it different from NS if both are no experience? What could be said to be the difference if there was not even an experience other than moments before and after the attainment? 
Eudoxos ., modified 1 Month ago.

RE: What are the differences between fruition and NS?

Posts: 79 Join Date: 4/6/14 Recent Posts
This question on buddhism SE states the theory: there is technically consciousness in phala-samapati (fruition attainment), which is consciousness of the supramundane object (the nibbana; called lokuttara-citta; supramundane because "mundane" senses are absent); there is no consciousness at all in nirodha-samapati (cessation attainment). I never understood why the theory insists so much on the supramundane consciousness, perhaps someone can shed light on that?

The experience of NS (which I don't have personally) differs from fruition in what is before and after the unconsciousness — MCTB describes that in quite some detail.
A. Dietrich Ringle, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: What are the differences between fruition and NS?

Posts: 882 Join Date: 12/4/11 Recent Posts
Eudoxos . This question on buddhism SE states the theory: there is technically consciousness in phala-samapati (fruition attainment), which is consciousness of the supramundane object (the nibbana; called lokuttara-citta; supramundane because "mundane" senses are absent); there is no consciousness at all in nirodha-samapati (cessation attainment). I never understood why the theory insists so much on the supramundane consciousness, perhaps someone can shed light on that? The experience of NS (which I don't have personally) differs from fruition in what is before and after the unconsciousness — MCTB describes that in quite some detail.
Someone on the stackexchange site mentioned the following.
"When a boy who is sweet but people call him ugly, with sadness in his heart by their treatment, goes to lake with distress, see his own face in clearer water and see his face. But after a while he jumped in joy that, I am not ugly, I am bright and sweet."
​​​​​​​When anatta is reached in stream entry (assuming you enter by that door), the tendency is to go beyond seeing myself as sweet and rather jumping into the lake to become one with myself. This is a mystery.
Eudoxos ., modified 1 Month ago.

RE: What are the differences between fruition and NS?

Posts: 79 Join Date: 4/6/14 Recent Posts
I always recognize your posts by the mix of tangetiality with mysterious ellipses emoticon

And always the uncertainty comes up: is A. Dietrich Ringle lousily programmed discussion bot or human genius well beyond my understanding? (Now, let's see if bots can be self-referential.)
A. Dietrich Ringle, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: What are the differences between fruition and NS?

Posts: 882 Join Date: 12/4/11 Recent Posts
LOL
A. Dietrich Ringle, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: What are the differences between fruition and NS?

Posts: 882 Join Date: 12/4/11 Recent Posts
Gladdening the mind can do odd things to introspective intuition. And then I feel that the only way to know Buddha is to share.
A. Dietrich Ringle, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: What are the differences between fruition and NS?

Posts: 882 Join Date: 12/4/11 Recent Posts
Brandon Michael Rohe
From MCTB on Fruition: "In this non-state, there is absolutely no time, no space, no reference point, no experience, no mind, no consciousness, no awareness, no background, no foreground, no nothingness, no somethingness, no body, no this, no that, no unity, no duality, and no anything else. “Reality” stops cold and then reappears." 

MCTB on NS: "Please also note that, like Fruition, there is no experience at all during NS. There is no time, no space, no something, no nothing, not anything at all. Just as a desktop computer shuts down totally when you press the power button, so too with anything to do with experience in NS." 

If fruition is no experience how is it different from NS if both are no experience? What could be said to be the difference if there was not even an experience other than moments before and after the attainment? 


What you should be curious about is Mahaparinirvana. That is the ultimate. Not fruition. Not N>S>
A. Dietrich Ringle, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: What are the differences between fruition and NS?

Posts: 882 Join Date: 12/4/11 Recent Posts
A. Dietrich Ringle
Brandon Michael Rohe
From MCTB on Fruition: "In this non-state, there is absolutely no time, no space, no reference point, no experience, no mind, no consciousness, no awareness, no background, no foreground, no nothingness, no somethingness, no body, no this, no that, no unity, no duality, and no anything else. “Reality” stops cold and then reappears." 

MCTB on NS: "Please also note that, like Fruition, there is no experience at all during NS. There is no time, no space, no something, no nothing, not anything at all. Just as a desktop computer shuts down totally when you press the power button, so too with anything to do with experience in NS." 

If fruition is no experience how is it different from NS if both are no experience? What could be said to be the difference if there was not even an experience other than moments before and after the attainment? 


What you should be curious about is Mahaparinirvana. That is the ultimate. Not fruition. Not N>S>

Edit. What about Mahaparinirvana is unique? It is the destination for the noble ones.
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David Matte, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: What are the differences between fruition and NS?

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According to MCTB, the difference between them is only in the entrance and exit.

Just before the entrance, verbal formations cease first, then physical sensations, and finally mental formations cease.


Daniel also writes:

"Unlike Fruition, we exit this attainment in the reverse way we came in, with mental formations arising first, quickly followed by physical and then verbal formations"


The exit is also characterized by a strong afterglow, more intense than the afterglow of fruition. The non-experience of NS also appears to last for a longer duration in external time.
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Pepe ·, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: What are the differences between fruition and NS?

Posts: 430 Join Date: 9/26/18 Recent Posts
Maybe you could check the answers given in your previous thread...

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