I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Natty Wizard, modified 2 Months ago.

I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 3 Join Date: 8/13/21 Recent Posts
I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it .

I share my insights into why it's not the end goal in a short 6 min video here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdJiiA5T1Gk

I plan on sharing my insights into how to enter stream entry and have cessations(9th jhana) if anyone would be intrested.
thumbnail
Ni Nurta, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 774 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
What does happen before, during and after cessation that makes any suffering that was before to be gone?
thumbnail
J W, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 521 Join Date: 2/11/20 Recent Posts
 Furthermore - how can one 'transcend' that which is simply nothing else that that which is experiencing/being experienced at any given moment. Would whatever it is that is transcending not simply be a further expression/reflection/variation of that same thing that is already being experienced?

I do understand that words can be limiting here. Thanks in advance for the clarification, thanks for the post.
 
Natty Wizard, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 3 Join Date: 8/13/21 Recent Posts
Yes just like saying everyone is already enlightened, is true. But If it’s not truly realised, there will still be solidity left to project the separate self on to and create that into a new identity. - thus re-affirming the dualty between the observer and the observed. 
thumbnail
Oatmilk, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 110 Join Date: 7/30/20 Recent Posts
That's gonna throw of a shitstorm. 
I am sorry for not giving you credibility but the actual thing is so disgusting, dead, disorienting and detached that you wouldn't want to record a video about it. Why would you even care? The entire voidness is so devistating that it costs you at least a year of being entirely dysfunctional and sick. Don't get me wrong but if you haven't gotten to a place where your entire system falls apart, then it's not it. 
thumbnail
J W, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 521 Join Date: 2/11/20 Recent Posts
"Yes just like saying everyone is already enlightened, is true. But If it’s not truly realised, there will still be solidity left"

Another way to frame it would be like this: if "enlightenment" is something that you think can be attained, or even 'realized', that's not it.
So it just depends on how you're using the term I guess.
thumbnail
Chris Marti, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 4073 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I am sorry for not giving you credibility but the actual thing is so disgusting, dead, disorienting and detached that you wouldn't want to record a video about it.

How the path progresses for each human being depends on many factors: what is being practiced, and how, the personality, the original strength of one's ego and sense of self, how deeply one has embedded or buried the habits that have to be rooted out to awaken. It's definitely not one size fits all. It's more like no two are the same.
Natty Wizard, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 3 Join Date: 8/13/21 Recent Posts
Well said, it deffinately sounds like hes talking about a dark night of the soul. The self dying, is no fun experience.
thumbnail
Oatmilk, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 110 Join Date: 7/30/20 Recent Posts
I agree
George S, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 2064 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Very nice video, thanks for sharing. Maybe the Buddha didn't claim to be enlightened and later generations put him on that pedestal.
thumbnail
Chris Marti, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 4073 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Maybe the Buddha didn't claim to be enlightened...

​​​​​​​If someone asks you, "What are you?" and you reply, "I am awake" as the Buddha did (according to the account we have of this), then that's a pretty good sign that he claimed to be. Then there's the passing of the recognition of enlightenment to Mahakashyapa on Vulture's Peak. Lots of indicators that the Buddha was fully aware of his situation - if the suttas are to be believed.

​​​​​​​
thumbnail
J W, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 521 Join Date: 2/11/20 Recent Posts
"the Buddha was fully aware of his situation"

Can you explain why is this important? Thank you
George S, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 2064 Join Date: 2/26/19 Recent Posts
Just for clarification, I don’t doubt the experience of Buddha and I’m familiar with the story in the suttas. I’m just not sure that the man himself would have identified as awake, or whether that is a helpful way to describe the situation (referring back to the suggestion at the end of Natty Wizard’s video).

 
thumbnail
Angel Roberto Puente, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 281 Join Date: 5/5/19 Recent Posts
Chris Marti
How the path progresses for each human being depends on many factors: what is being practiced, and how, the personality, the original strength of one's ego and sense of self, how deeply one has embedded or buried the habits that have to be rooted out to awaken. It's definitely not one size fits all. It's more like no two are the same.”
     
This is a checklist that everybody should look into before making general statements about what practice is or its outcomes. In the modern meditation free for all, it's inevitable that “no two are the same” when it comes to outcomes. That some of these outcomes are unpleasant may be true for some people. But I'm curious. I haven't been able to find any suttas where this is talked about. The system the Buddha set up seemed to outline the right way to do it. The eightfold path emphasizes that the right conditions have to be set up, so that means there is also a wrong setup.
     Ajahn Amaro writes:
​​​​​​​In the classical Buddhist teachings, there are four gradations or stages of enlightenment that are described over and over again. The first level is called “stream-entry.” This represents an irreversible breakthrough into a quality of psychological integration or self-actualization, or “emotional intelligence” that will necessarily result, eventually, in the “unshakeable well-being” of full enlightenment. This means that the mind can only be deluded to a limited degree a certain number of times; the mind can only get so lost. This quality of stream-entry is something that the Buddha praised as a realizable goal, not just for monastics but for lay people as well. The Buddha referred to those who had reached this level of realization as “noble people,” people who had seen the nature of ultimate reality, who had “glimpsed the Deathless” to use another classical expression. Many thousands of lay people in the Buddha’s own time, as well as monastics, reached this level of stream-entry, and many have realized the same level since then. Stream-entry is a very realistic and realizable goal, as well as being an attractive one.” Amaro, A. Unshakeable Well-Being: Is the Buddhist Concept of Enlightenment a Meaningful Possibility in the Current Age. Mindfulness 10, 1952–1956 (2019). https://doi.org/10.1007/s12671-019-01179-7
     As far as I'm concerned, this is more like it.
thumbnail
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 5922 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
If the emptiness is experienced as painful, maybe the emptiness needs to be emptied out too. As far as I understand, it's not supposed to be nihilism. The emptiness has an inherent liveliness to it, and that liveliness is both innocent and joyful, playful, in my experience. Not that I'm in any way done yet. But if it's experienced as loss, who is experiencing the loss? 

Will check the video later. Minimizing my input at the moment. Would be interested in how one surrenders to Niroda Samapati (however that is spelled), for future use. 
thumbnail
Chris Marti, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 4073 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
JW asks...

Can you explain why is this important?

I was interested in setting the record straight, not in presenting this bit of the Buddha's obvious self-knowledge as something with metaphysical importance. Isn't it kind of obvious, though? Do we think the Buddha could have been the person he was and teach the tihngs he taught without knowing his own situation?
thumbnail
J W, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 521 Join Date: 2/11/20 Recent Posts
Isn't it kind of obvious, though? Do we think the Buddha could have been the person he was and teach the tihngs he taught without knowing his own situation?

Dear Chris,
Firstly I want to apologize because my question was sort of vague and probably unskillful. 
Secondly, I legitimately do not know the answer to this or else I would not have asked it.

So to try doing this a little bit better,
Where I was coming from was the idea of, let's call them, the 'external' paths, those that are shaped by culture, environment, natural conditions, etc. and how those relate to the 'internal' or 'spiritual' paths which are generally more precisely self-referential and at least from sort of sense, more self-aware.  
(edit - and i am using the external/internal in the dualistic sense here, and talking about paths more as an 'entry-point' rather than an end goal)
​​​​​​​
For some context, I believe I remember Dan talking about how he believes there to be enlightened beings all over the world who don't realize they are enlightened. I can't find the passage now, probably I could use another re-read.

So to answer the second question, *would* the Buddha have been the same person that he was without knowing his own situation? This is obvious: no, because then whatever he did/did not teach would not have been Buddhism.

To the first part of your question, isn't it kind of obvious (why this is important)? 
Well damn, that's a good question/answer.  Kind of, yeah.  I suppose now it's just getting to the point where it's totally obvious! emoticon

Thank you for your patience. This is helpful.
thumbnail
Chris Marti, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 4073 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
JW, no worries. I wasn't offended or put off by your question.
​​​​​​​

... I remember Dan talking about how he believes there to be enlightened beings all over the world who don't realize they are enlightened.

Maybe such people exist, but unless they were born awakened and don't know any other existence, they would certainly know things are different than they were before what happened to them happened. The Buddha was in that position, or better because he was actively seeking his own awakening, and he was knowledgeable to the extent that he knew what wasn't awakening. He rejected everything he was taught or tried, until he hit upon the correct practices on his own. After his transition, he was awake and aware of his awakening - i.e.;

"What are you?"

"I am awake."
thumbnail
J W, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 521 Join Date: 2/11/20 Recent Posts
"unless they were born awakened and don't know any other existence, they would certainly know things are different than they were before what happened to them happened."
Yep, I would agree with that statement.
thumbnail
Ni Nurta, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 774 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
"What are you?"

"I am awake."

Imho it went like this:
random guy: What are you?
Buddha: I am arti... ekhm, awake! I said I am awake! ^_^
thumbnail
Kaloyan Stefanov, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 69 Join Date: 2/18/21 Recent Posts
Thanks for sharing the video. I hope you don't get offended by me saying this, but it contains a lot of things which are misleading or blatantly not true, whilst also containing a lot of things which are obviously true and valuable. If you aim to create more such videos, especially for people pre-stream entry, it might be a good idea to try and be a bit more precise in the conceptual frameworks and metaphors you use. What I feel is that if you take out the things which are a bit misleading, or just plain not true, your material will get better.

I don't want to appear like that guy that nit-picks what is otherwise decent material, but here are some things I would revise if I were you:
1) Life becomes like one continous cessation - not true/bad metaphor. Cessation experiences still happen - day to day life in non-duality is super mundane and definately not one continous cessation emoticon
2) "Without the though "I am doing" -  the thoughts " I am this" "I am that", "I am doing this" can arise and do arise, and they are causal and part of that One thing doing Its thing (the Universe universing or whatever). They are seen through as not being a doer/creator is what happens.
3) Your take on suffering can be misleading. Non-duality is the end of that bit of suffering that is related to the subject/object split. It doesn't mean the end of all suffering, so statements like "I don't understand what suffering means" are misleading, if you don't provide additional qualifiers emoticon MCTB2 has a good take on suffering, there is lot's of material out there likewise
4) Your take on spiritual teachers/gurus abusing students because they are not fully "enlightened"/non-dual has been debated a lot as well. Daniel talks a lot about how deeply awakened people (full non-dual) can and still do behave like assholes, especially if they are narcistic, in positions of power, have some psychological baggage and trauma stuff left, etc. My own experience is the same - I also sometimes behave like a total jerk emoticon 


These are just some things that maybe you can exclude, and without them you don't loose any of the good stuff in your material, but instead risk misleading people less. 
thumbnail
J W, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Posts: 521 Join Date: 2/11/20 Recent Posts
Kaloyan Stefanov

1) Life becomes like one continous cessation - not true/bad metaphor. Cessation experiences still happen - day to day life in non-duality is super mundane and definately not one continous cessation emoticon


I think there is sort of a 'sustained peak' experience that may be possible which is sort of this living experience of cessation, look at teachers like Frank Yang for an idea of what that might look like.  But then there is also the idea of 'integration' which is really kind of the understanding that even this supercool full natty state is not any different than mundane life (edit: and likewise -- mundane life is not any different than the experience of cessation), and I would agree with part of what you're saying here which is that descriptions and demonstrations of the full natty state do not always come across as desirable or relatable states given what most people experience most of the time.

​​​​​​​idk, just my ramblings on it.
liljonnythegod ☸️, modified 1 Month ago.

RE: I attained Enlightenment and went beyond by transcending it.

Post: 1 Join Date: 6/16/21 Recent Posts
Hi Natty Wizard,

I came across your video earlier this month as Frank Yang reposted it on instagram. It makes a lot of sense that enlightenment has to be dropped because so long as there is an identity/self that feels enlightened there is duality. If there is no identiy/self to feel enlightened then that must mean all duality has been dissolved.

Can you share an infomation on what you practices you did to get to arahatship/4th path? 

Is the 99% you talk about when enlightment is realised when arahatship is attained and the 100% when you go beyond enlightenment? What exactly do you need to do to get from 99% to 100%?

Breadcrumb