Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

Platu •, modified 2 Months ago.

Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

Posts: 13 Join Date: 5/7/21 Recent Posts
Would love to hear your take on it.
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Jim Smith, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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Platu •
Would love to hear your take on it.



I'm not 100% sure what you are asking, emotional or physical pain? What does necessary mean?

I find it is necessary to understand the cause of emotional pain (dukkha) in order to let go of it. Often there are layers on layers of thoughts and emotions that our mind hides from conscious awareness that have to brought to light in order to let go of them.

For me, consciously acknowledging (admitting, acepting) inconvenient truths about myself, my life, other people, reality etc (ie. surrendering) ends a lot of dukkha. To do that, to end dukkha, to let go, to surrender, I have to know the cause of the emotional pain. It can be hard to do this because being conscious of the emotional pain means  you are feeling it (samatha, metta, or jhana meditation or relaxation exercises can help with this). Some people might prefer to just let it lay hidden and that can be a good decision for some people.

Some people believe that if you meditate a lot, something can happen where all the emotional pain that it is possible to end is ended and I think for some people that can happen. However I think it is relatively rare and that my way is more dependable and practical for the average person. You can do more or less depending on how you feel and the progress you make is directly proportional to the effort you put in to it.
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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Hey Jim, thanks for your answer. 

There is a sensation in my chest that I call pain.
It's pretty localized, sits more on the spine, spreads all around. Pretty tangible, varies in intensity.
Sometimes it's on, sometimes it's off. Appearing without apparent cause.
Usually, I give the name - anxiety. Though it's not really about something. Or I cannot tell.
Usually, it's accompanied by fear. That fear might translate to various thoughts, depending on the situation.
I intentionally try to catch those thoughts, write them down and see what they are about. Works well to bring beliefs into light and see how they are not true.
Though it doesn't end the sensations in my chest. Doesn't seem like those beliefs would be the cause. Or rather, I don't know if those beliefs are the cause. 
After entering access concentration, proceeding to complete surrender of all effort, the sensations in the chest are still there. Painful as usual. No related emotion found or thoughts. Just pure sensations of 'anxiousness'.
And that's where I'm wondering whether it's necessary to know the cause of those sensations to be able to do something about them to make them cease.
Or just keep the surrender/acceptance and do nothing about it? Drop the search for an answer? ...and continue cutting through the mental beliefs.
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Jim Smith, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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Platu •
Hey Jim, thanks for your answer. 

There is a sensation in my chest that I call pain.
It's pretty localized, sits more on the spine, spreads all around. Pretty tangible, varies in intensity.
Sometimes it's on, sometimes it's off. Appearing without apparent cause.
Usually, I give the name - anxiety. Though it's not really about something. Or I cannot tell.
Usually, it's accompanied by fear. That fear might translate to various thoughts, depending on the situation.
I intentionally try to catch those thoughts, write them down and see what they are about. Works well to bring beliefs into light and see how they are not true.
Though it doesn't end the sensations in my chest. Doesn't seem like those beliefs would be the cause. Or rather, I don't know if those beliefs are the cause. 
After entering access concentration, proceeding to complete surrender of all effort, the sensations in the chest are still there. Painful as usual. No related emotion found or thoughts. Just pure sensations of 'anxiousness'.
And that's where I'm wondering whether it's necessary to know the cause of those sensations to be able to do something about them to make them cease.
Or just keep the surrender/acceptance and do nothing about it? Drop the search for an answer? ...and continue cutting through the mental beliefs.


Some emotions are caused by purely biological factors. In those cases mental techniques like meditation might not help or might only help as a coping strategy rather than a solution. In those cases it might be more productive to investigate biological solutions such as nutrition or to see a doctor or to do physical and mental relaxation exercises (which are a form of meditation since they require attention) with the same effort (time and consistency) that is put into other forms of meditation.
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Benjamin Franklin Armstrong, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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Hi Platu,

Psychologist here. I've worked with many clients on anxiety and the sensations (pain/tightness) associated with it. A major step is being able to localize it in the body, which you've done by noting that it's in your chest toward the spine. Well done! You might be surprised how often it can take people to get from "I just feel bad" to "I'm anxious" to "I have this tight sensation in my chest associated with anxious thoughts". So that's a great start.

You mention that you "bring beliefs to light and see that they are not true" but that this does not end the sensation, and you are not convinced that these thoughts or beliefs are the cause of the anxiety. Another poster mentioned the idea of purely biological anxiety with no external cause. While this may happen, I've never seen this in real life. There's always a "cause" in terms of a stimulus or set of stimuli that are being reacted to and a reason or set of reasons for the reaction or heightened reactivity. That said, recognizing that your anxious thoughts and beliefs are not true is rarely enough to extinguish the reaction. That's actually one of the myths of CBT (and other) therapy, that challenging the irrational beliefs is enough.

In fact, I've found that the anxious thoughts and beliefs must be worked with and accepted alongside the sensations. I'm a major advocate of self-compassion and self-support/self-soothing as a way to warmly be with the hurt in a way that doesn't try to fix or change it. An underlying desire to "accept so it will go away" can be really insidious and can make any progress impossible.

I also teach that persistent emotional responses must be processed in order to extinguish, which typically requires that they be allowed to express and move, often getting larger and more intense temporarily as the tight semiconscious attempts to control or suppress are slowly relaxed.

You might look into work on "completing the stress cycle" or a guided exercise called "expansion" that comes out of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT). A quick Google search should find both sets of material easily (videos of expansion available on YouTube).

Curious to hear your thoughts or whether this has hit the mark.
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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Ben Armstrong
Hi Platu,

Psychologist here. I've worked with many clients on anxiety and the sensations (pain/tightness) associated with it. A major step is being able to localize it in the body, which you've done by noting that it's in your chest toward the spine. Well done! You might be surprised how often it can take people to get from "I just feel bad" to "I'm anxious" to "I have this tight sensation in my chest associated with anxious thoughts". So that's a great start.

You mention that you "bring beliefs to light and see that they are not true" but that this does not end the sensation, and you are not convinced that these thoughts or beliefs are the cause of the anxiety. Another poster mentioned the idea of purely biological anxiety with no external cause. While this may happen, I've never seen this in real life. There's always a "cause" in terms of a stimulus or set of stimuli that are being reacted to and a reason or set of reasons for the reaction or heightened reactivity. That said, recognizing that your anxious thoughts and beliefs are not true is rarely enough to extinguish the reaction. That's actually one of the myths of CBT (and other) therapy, that challenging the irrational beliefs is enough.

In fact, I've found that the anxious thoughts and beliefs must be worked with and accepted alongside the sensations. I'm a major advocate of self-compassion and self-support/self-soothing as a way to warmly be with the hurt in a way that doesn't try to fix or change it. An underlying desire to "accept so it will go away" can be really insidious and can make any progress impossible.

I also teach that persistent emotional responses must be processed in order to extinguish, which typically requires that they be allowed to express and move, often getting larger and more intense temporarily as the tight semiconscious attempts to control or suppress are slowly relaxed.

You might look into work on "completing the stress cycle" or a guided exercise called "expansion" that comes out of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT). A quick Google search should find both sets of material easily (videos of expansion available on YouTube).

Curious to hear your thoughts or whether this has hit the mark.

Hey Benjamin, thanks for reply, your answer exactly hit the spot.

That is a great reaffirmation and reminder that it is still anxiety that is putting on different masks. The symptoms are changing over time and this time it got me to believe that is something other than it is. Good to know that it's a common symptom. 

You say 'There's always a "cause" in terms of a stimulus or set of stimuli that are being reacted to and a reason or set of reasons for the reaction or heightened reactivity.' And then you say 'the anxious thoughts and beliefs must be worked with and accepted alongside the sensations.'

Do I understand correctly that my job being with anxiety is just to recognize that it is happening and not resist it? Let it be as it is, without the intention to change or end it. Just recognize the sensations. And the thoughts if possible that are coming with it. But it is not so necessary to catch the 'cause' as you say in terms of stimuls or set of stimuli, and know the reasons for heightened reactivity? Just purely accept that this is the only way that can be now.
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Ben Armstrong, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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Hi Platu,

It's not that understanding the causes here can't be useful. It's that acceptance really needs to be there first. Otherwise our desire to understand ends up hiding a desire to fix or change (or even a sense of resignation that no change is possible). So first there needs to be an opening up and allowing of the sensations separate from any desire or need for them to change or extinguish. Of course this is easier said than done, but it is possible. In my work with clients, it tends to look like "breathing with" and "opening up around" or "giving space to" those sensations and emotions. Somewhat ironically, this can actually lead to those feelings intensifying in the short-term as we loosen our grip and ease our semi-conscious attempts to suppress or hold back these feelings.

Now, if this is something that has been with you for awhile, it is very possible that opening up and allowing these feelings the space to process could bring up a lot of unpleasant material for you. It's very possible there's a lot of old stuck emotion associated with what you're experiencing in your chest. Of course, this kind of work is best done with an experienced professional who can guide you in what to expect. 

Coming back to your question about understanding. Making space for your emotions/feelings to process does not really require that you understand their source, but understanding their source *may* be necessary to unravel the process that causes them to keep coming up. The metaphor I like to use is that self-acceptance is learning to stop "poking the bear" or "making it worse" with our constant attempts to fix or change (which may be quite ingrained and unconscious). Self-compassion is about soothing the bear - offering it warmth and support. We can't actually fix the feelings, but the warmth can give a sense of space and safety that makes it easier to relax. Finally, understanding the current or developmental problems that lead to this state may also be good and helpful, so long as we are able to approach it with curiosity and compassion (which are soothing and opening) rather than judgment and criticism (which tend to be tightening).

Does that help? Acceptance to give it room to process. Only then perhaps some curious attempts to understand. That's my perspective, anyway. Of course, there are some hardcore CBT therapists who are problem-solvers all the way and some more psycho-dynamic therapists who are all developmental causes and family history. So keep in mind there are other perspectives.
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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Ben Armstrong
Hi Platu,

It's not that understanding the causes here can't be useful. It's that acceptance really needs to be there first. Otherwise our desire to understand ends up hiding a desire to fix or change (or even a sense of resignation that no change is possible). So first there needs to be an opening up and allowing of the sensations separate from any desire or need for them to change or extinguish. Of course this is easier said than done, but it is possible. In my work with clients, it tends to look like "breathing with" and "opening up around" or "giving space to" those sensations and emotions. Somewhat ironically, this can actually lead to those feelings intensifying in the short-term as we loosen our grip and ease our semi-conscious attempts to suppress or hold back these feelings.

Now, if this is something that has been with you for awhile, it is very possible that opening up and allowing these feelings the space to process could bring up a lot of unpleasant material for you. It's very possible there's a lot of old stuck emotion associated with what you're experiencing in your chest. Of course, this kind of work is best done with an experienced professional who can guide you in what to expect. 

Coming back to your question about understanding. Making space for your emotions/feelings to process does not really require that you understand their source, but understanding their source *may* be necessary to unravel the process that causes them to keep coming up. The metaphor I like to use is that self-acceptance is learning to stop "poking the bear" or "making it worse" with our constant attempts to fix or change (which may be quite ingrained and unconscious). Self-compassion is about soothing the bear - offering it warmth and support. We can't actually fix the feelings, but the warmth can give a sense of space and safety that makes it easier to relax. Finally, understanding the current or developmental problems that lead to this state may also be good and helpful, so long as we are able to approach it with curiosity and compassion (which are soothing and opening) rather than judgment and criticism (which tend to be tightening).

Does that help? Acceptance to give it room to process. Only then perhaps some curious attempts to understand. That's my perspective, anyway. Of course, there are some hardcore CBT therapists who are problem-solvers all the way and some more psycho-dynamic therapists who are all developmental causes and family history. So keep in mind there are other perspectives.

Hi Ben, thanks for clarifying. 

Ultimately, who is accepting what? I cannot find the agent that is doing the accepting. The sensations of anxiety, symptoms like physical tightness in the chest are there, and how can it be any different than it is? The symptom/sensation is as it is. Eighter it is there, or it is not. So what we call accepting maybe is tuning in to the natural fact of how things are and not giving extra mental pressure? Like thoughts, imaginations that it could be different than it is now, like absence of these sensations, but that's just an illusion. That's an insight I got in the past few days to the accepting game. And been on that game for a few years. 

And fucking hell, the recent few days have been a breakthrough for me. Thank you for opening me up to the possibility, that the sensations do have a cause. When the physical sensations in the chest arise, I quickly scan maybe there was a thought. And most of the time I can catch it. Like a micro fart of thought that I'll be doing something "in the future" and here's the sensations appearing. Like that I have caught many expectations for certain situations, thinking about the future situations, trying to analyze something, understand, figure out a concept. Right now I'm still very sensitive to these thoughts and most of them are causing the sensations in the chest or mental tightness (brain fog/somewhat impaired thinking) to arise. This untangles things because I just fucking thought that those sensations just are and it appears that they are closely related to what I'm thinking. Catching the thought doesn't loop the sensations->thoughts. Or at least remembering that I have just thought that and now I have these sensations. Will work on my probably suppressed emotions/traumas too with the psychotherapist. 
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Ben Armstrong, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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Hi Platu,

That's fantastic that so much is opening up for you! I'm really happy to hear it. It's nice to know that you're able to catch those thoughts as they're coming up and see the way they are leading to these reactions. It sounds like there is a lot of opportunity for things to improve there!

Regarding the question of "who is accepting what", I would argue that acceptance is the base state. So it's not an agent or ego that is enacting acceptance on an object like tightness. Instead what's holding that tightness in place (assuming we're dealing with stuck emotions and not a physical cause) is resistance/supression/etc. 

And yes, the sensations are there and how can it be different than it is. Absolutely. And to the extent that they are stuck, there will typically be a tightness or resistance around that tightness. On some level you'll find an attempt to hold back or fix or correct. And I would agree with your conclusion that this basically just amounts to not adding mental pressure to it (which will often show up as physical pressure). Though I might go a step further and say that as we deepen our acceptance/opening we find that an awful lot of what was there was a result of that same mental pressure.
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Ben V., modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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Platu,

I have been investigating the same question lately, having had a persisitent tightness in my chest, more precisely on the sides of the solar plexus, so I'll share a few thoughts with you here. The question being, shall I just note it (à la vipassana) or investigate it to try to undersatand what underlies/causes it?

I do both.

In vipassana, it's noting/observing it without trying to change it, nor even understand it. Just allow it in awareness. If desires to change it, understand it, or make it go away, you simply note/observe these as well.

In terms of exploring unserlying causes, lately I have began trying an approach called the Diamond Approach. You can google search it for more info. but it's basically an inquiry method that brings together a path to awakening and depth psychology. It's done with a guide/teacher. For your chest sensation you would be guided to relax into it in a meditative way and then be receptive to thoughts and images that come up around it, andtalk about it.  So far I've had only two sessions and it's been feeling quite like therapy although they wouldn't say it's therapy, as the goal is to bring one to what they call your 'essence', kinda like Rigpa which I think influenced that approach.

I had thought of starting a thread actually on Diamond Approach just out of curiosity if others had experience with that approach (not to be confused with the 'Diamond Way', which is another organization).

In any case, other exploratory approaches with body sensations are Eugene Gendlin's 'Focusing' and Jungian 'Active Imagination'.

I find those approaches above (Diamond Approach, Focusing and Actime Imagination) to have much in common, so far, although I am totallu new with the Diamond Approach.

Basically you observe the sensation that calls your attention and freely associate thoughts, emotions, images, memories, etc, to it until a meaning is found. Usually that will create a shift or release in the sensation. But you have to be very patient with this. Some sensation patterns may take a long time to untangle.

Best wishes with your practice.
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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Ben V.
Platu,

I have been investigating the same question lately, having had a persisitent tightness in my chest, more precisely on the sides of the solar plexus, so I'll share a few thoughts with you here. The question being, shall I just note it (à la vipassana) or investigate it to try to undersatand what underlies/causes it?

I do both.

In vipassana, it's noting/observing it without trying to change it, nor even understand it. Just allow it in awareness. If desires to change it, understand it, or make it go away, you simply note/observe these as well.

In terms of exploring unserlying causes, lately I have began trying an approach called the Diamond Approach. You can google search it for more info. but it's basically an inquiry method that brings together a path to awakening and depth psychology. It's done with a guide/teacher. For your chest sensation you would be guided to relax into it in a meditative way and then be receptive to thoughts and images that come up around it, andtalk about it.  So far I've had only two sessions and it's been feeling quite like therapy although they wouldn't say it's therapy, as the goal is to bring one to what they call your 'essence', kinda like Rigpa which I think influenced that approach.

I had thought of starting a thread actually on Diamond Approach just out of curiosity if others had experience with that approach (not to be confused with the 'Diamond Way', which is another organization).

In any case, other exploratory approaches with body sensations are Eugene Gendlin's 'Focusing' and Jungian 'Active Imagination'.

I find those approaches above (Diamond Approach, Focusing and Actime Imagination) to have much in common, so far, although I am totallu new with the Diamond Approach.

Basically you observe the sensation that calls your attention and freely associate thoughts, emotions, images, memories, etc, to it until a meaning is found. Usually that will create a shift or release in the sensation. But you have to be very patient with this. Some sensation patterns may take a long time to untangle.

Best wishes with your practice.

Thanks Ben, I'll dig those methods and experiment with them. emoticon
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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I came across a free audiobook on how to deal with energies that have been stuck in the body due to trauma. It presents some methods that might be useful while also emphasizing the three characteristics. According to the author Peter Levine, it's not as much about knowing the cause as it is about letting the body come out from the freeze response just like animals do. Knowing what triggers responses seems to be needed, though. If not the main cause, then at least something. 

https://youtu.be/PEf9KI4SWM8

I have been taught methods in Tibetan Buddhism that might possibly (partly) work in a similar way. I'm not allowed to teach them. However, I think it's okay to say that according to them it is important not to buy into the stories that we think of as causes, as that maintains the pain by entangling it rather than setting the energy free. One is supposed to let the feeling be aware without explaining it or conceptualizing it in any way, just let it run its course. I still find this difficult, but I have had some openings with it. It really does self-liberate. It's not about getting rid of it, but about letting it be without entangling it. As it turns out, in its "purest" form, it's not what we thought it was. 

​​​​​​​(Etited to add stuff)
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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aloha platu (any relation to plato?),


   In buddhism, every thing has a cause (kamma). Having identified a pain is part of it, searching out the cause is another part; then one may be healed. With psychological pains - mindbody pains as opposed to bodymind, physical pains - just understanding the karma involved may be healing.

   One can be confused by the mechanistic nature of cause and effect, as sequential and linear. Method seems antithetical to acceptance of the coarising of all phenomena. But one is already caught in mechanism, in karma, when one identifies a problem and seeks a solution. Already we have undesirable pain identified with and desirable relief not identified with, so we are separated and anxiety is the natural result. It is common for one to feel anxiety over having anxiety.

   Unfortunately for therapists, a great deal of mine run anxiety is due to real social problems, like not enough money, an abusive gf/bf, a pointless or harmful occupation, substandard housing, bad neighbors, intractable illness, hard choices, and so forth. If you need to deal with those issues before you can relax, then work on them. I recommend voluntary poverty and self reliance.

   If this is genuine spiritual anxiety, then you are in luck, and should embrace it. It is ike spiritual longing, which many seek help for or company in as loneliness, though it is the mainspring of the quest for spirituality. Don't seek palliatives, feel the burn.

   The ego should be anxious. Like robert e lee said, "It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it." If the ego weren't a dirty, ragged outworn garment, we would'nt desire to be clean and well dressed.

   So, yes, bra, you need to know the cause of your pain, and buddhism indeed supplies the answer: NT2 all suffering is caused by desire. NT3 Desirelessness is liberation. NT4 the path is the way to the end of pain.

   What is understood becomes no thing.

terry


“Readiness for anxiety is a Yes to assuming a stance that fulfills the highest claim, a claim that is made upon the human essence alone. Of all beings, only the human being, called upon by the voice of being, experiences the wonder of all wonders: that beings are.”
— Martin Heidegger, Postscript to What is Metaphysics (1929)


https://medium.com/science-and-philosophy/heideggerian-anxiety-as-a-means-of-exiting-the-system-1e4b06a71010
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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Yeah, in that sense, the cause of suffering (which is not quite the same thing as pain - there's an important distinction to be made there) is always the same. Was that what you meant to ask? If so, then yes. That's exactly what you need to see for yourself. Probably over and over again until it is clear beyond any doubt. But it has little to do with what people often think about when they talk about the cause of their pain. Also, seeing that doesn't take away the pain, only the suffering added to the pain as entangled overlays. 
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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I'm guessing you didn't follow the link. I was talking about anxiety.

I had not asked a question.

Pain and suffering may not be the same, but they are equivalent. The distinction disappears as "pain" is deconstructed. A "physical sensation" conventionally called pain by many people may be ignored by an absent mind, be unremembered and thus nonexistent as a painful experience. And suffering can create pain from nothing. At root it is the identification of pain/suffering as such that causes distress.

No doubt you are correct when you point out that what I say "has little to do with what people often think about when they talk about the cause of their pain." 

I will let stand without defense my remarks about pain dissipatng when the karma of it is understood. 

t
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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I was mainly replying to Platu. I just agreed with you.

​​​​​​​As for your latest addition about completely eliminating pain, I'll agree to disagree, except maybe for some unique exceptions. 
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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It can be confusing if you reply to two people at once without designating whom...I blame deathray.

We can agtee to misunderstand.
Platu •, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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The audiobook that Linda presented seems like a fresh take on the same problem. Rings a bell when I hear about the methods to come out of dissociation which is more of memory now, though some sort of mild version is still present that manifests itself in the mentioned sensations. Curious to go through it and meet with my psychotherapist. 

The article that Terry presented seems like a serious read which is nice to read when the timing is right. Right now I feel content with the current finding that there is a direct relation between thoughts and anxious sensations. Brings peace and clarity rather than thinking that those sensations appear randomly.

Further to deconstruct, thanks for the pointers and inputs. emoticon 

P.S. no relation to Plato, though I dig Socrates' style of questioning everything and figuring out yourself. 
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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The article simply presented what I wanted to say better than I was going to say it, or at least more completely and extensively.

But it is a serious read, and if I had done, it would have been a serious read as well.

For a serious discussion.

Perhaps someone will read the article and pick up the thread another time.

t

ps linda I was equating anxiety - angst or dread - with dukkha as well as pain and suffering... we can disagree on definitions but unfortunately we cannot then communicate...
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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in true dialectical fashion I am always willing to double down:<br /><br />stephanie yu is a brilliant grad student, lectures on this stuff on you tube but you have to change the speed to .75 or less as she talks fast...a brilliant communicator but not yet a brilliant public speaker...<br /><br />article, "a materialist approach to heideggerian anxiety" by stephanie yu<br /><br /><a href="file:///Users/terrymac/Downloads/etd21133.pdf">file:///Users/terrymac/Downloads/etd21133.pdf</a><br /><br /><br />Abstract:<br /><br />Martin Heidegger’s radical conception of the ‘subject’ as Dasein (the human being, whose essence is Existence) was meant to deconstruct traditional Cartesian conceptions of the subject based purely on consciousness in the name of retrieving a fundamental ontology. For Heidegger, Dasein is the only entity that can grasp primordial Being, which only becomes accessible in a breakdown of the world in anxiety (Angst).<br /><br />Although Heidegger contends that consciousness is irrelevant to Dasein’s experience of anxiety, I argue that consciousness remains crucial to the concept. While this discovery results in what Theodor W. Adorno calls a pseudo-concrete (abstract and individualistic) ontology, I approach anxiety through a materialist lens via Georg Lukács’s social ontology of the proletariat and Herbert Marcuse’s Heideggerian Marxism to argue that consciousness of social being may emerge out of anxiety, which may lead to revolutionary social action. In doing so, I underscore the emancipatory potential of anxiety.<br /><br /><br />lecture&nbsp;<br /><br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viU9lHWWSbU">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viU9lHWWSbU</a>
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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zap!


this might work:

http://summit.sfu.ca/system/files/iritems1/21013/etd21133.pdf


"a materialist take on heideggerian anxiety" by stephanie yu

Abstract:
Martin Heidegger’s radical conception of the ‘subject’ as Dasein (the human being, whose essence is Existence) was meant to deconstruct traditional Cartesian conceptions of the subject based purely on consciousness in the name of retrieving a fundamental ontology. For Heidegger, Dasein is the only entity that can grasp primordial Being, which only becomes accessible in a breakdown of the world in anxiety (Angst).
Although Heidegger contends that consciousness is irrelevant to Dasein’s experience of anxiety, I argue that consciousness remains crucial to the concept. While this discovery results in what Theodor W. Adorno calls a pseudo-concrete (abstract and individualistic) ontology, I approach anxiety through a materialist lens via Georg Lukács’s social ontology of the proletariat and Herbert Marcuse’s Heideggerian Marxism to argue that consciousness of social being may emerge out of anxiety, which may lead to revolutionary social action. In doing so, I underscore the emancipatory potential of anxiety.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viU9lHWWSbU
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terry, modified 2 Months ago.

RE: Is it necessary to know the cause of the pain?

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from rick roderick's lecture on heidegger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDqDJJcJAOg&list=PLA34681B9BE88F5AA&index=2



"(Heidegger)…examines the mood of anxiety, then, not as a mere mood that just comes upon you once in awhile, but as an underlying structure of what it means to be human. In other words, if you remove this anxiety you remove the self."


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As a thinker, heidegger can only be compared to dogen (as joan stambaugh, pre-eminent heidegger scholar and translator of being and time, has written about extensively)

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