How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Macky Ben-Jonah 3/11/22 9:55 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Chris M 3/11/22 10:15 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/14/22 1:35 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Kat Hart 3/29/22 4:38 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. AK D 3/11/22 11:37 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Daniel - san 3/13/22 1:35 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/14/22 1:37 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. shargrol 3/13/22 7:03 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Macky Ben-Jonah 3/14/22 7:30 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Daniel - san 3/14/22 11:13 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. shargrol 3/14/22 12:56 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Daniel - san 3/14/22 2:15 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/14/22 1:21 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Jim Smith 3/14/22 10:03 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. shargrol 3/15/22 8:17 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Macky Ben-Jonah 3/16/22 6:05 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Richard Zen 3/16/22 10:29 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Macky Ben-Jonah 3/16/22 11:17 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Ni Nurta 3/16/22 4:59 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/17/22 12:11 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Chris M 3/16/22 3:45 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Macky Ben-Jonah 3/17/22 5:17 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Chris M 3/17/22 7:00 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Macky Ben-Jonah 3/17/22 7:43 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Chris M 3/17/22 8:08 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. George S 3/16/22 6:40 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Macky Ben-Jonah 3/17/22 7:47 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Martin 3/17/22 10:43 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. George S 3/17/22 6:33 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/17/22 12:34 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Chris M 3/18/22 7:09 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/18/22 1:35 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/18/22 1:46 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/18/22 1:57 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/18/22 2:05 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Chris M 3/18/22 2:39 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Daniel - san 3/18/22 3:28 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Chris M 3/18/22 3:53 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Daniel - san 3/18/22 4:14 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Chris M 3/18/22 4:06 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/18/22 4:04 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Chris M 3/18/22 4:16 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/18/22 4:21 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Chris M 3/18/22 4:28 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Joseph Ernedal 3/18/22 8:14 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Joseph Ernedal 3/18/22 8:37 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/18/22 4:40 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/18/22 4:57 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/19/22 3:08 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Chris M 3/19/22 8:44 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Ni Nurta 3/19/22 7:53 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Chris M 3/19/22 8:04 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Ni Nurta 3/19/22 8:38 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Chris M 3/19/22 8:45 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Macky Ben-Jonah 3/19/22 9:42 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Ni Nurta 3/19/22 11:26 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Chris M 3/19/22 11:22 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Ni Nurta 3/19/22 1:47 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/20/22 2:39 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/20/22 2:00 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/20/22 2:13 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/20/22 2:32 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Ni Nurta 3/20/22 2:56 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/20/22 2:57 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/20/22 3:18 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/20/22 3:08 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/20/22 3:15 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Ni Nurta 3/20/22 3:45 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/20/22 3:36 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/20/22 4:05 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/20/22 4:15 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Papa Che Dusko 3/20/22 4:24 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/21/22 4:31 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 3/23/22 5:08 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/24/22 1:53 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 3/27/22 4:22 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/28/22 1:31 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/28/22 1:39 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/28/22 2:02 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 3/28/22 3:56 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/29/22 3:28 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 3/29/22 5:26 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/31/22 2:00 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/31/22 2:13 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 3/31/22 2:39 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/2/22 8:59 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Ni Nurta 4/2/22 10:01 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/2/22 10:12 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Macky Ben-Jonah 3/25/22 4:43 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 3/27/22 4:05 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Macky Ben-Jonah 3/27/22 11:30 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 3/27/22 12:21 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Daniel - san 3/27/22 5:04 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Papa Che Dusko 3/27/22 2:39 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Macky Ben-Jonah 3/28/22 4:53 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Papa Che Dusko 3/28/22 11:59 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 4/1/22 1:10 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/2/22 10:29 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Macky Ben-Jonah 4/3/22 9:12 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 4/3/22 9:52 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 4/3/22 7:43 AM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 4/19/22 1:26 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 4/19/22 1:46 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. Chris M 4/19/22 1:56 PM
RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. terry 4/21/22 5:00 PM
Macky Ben-Jonah, modified 8 Months ago at 3/11/22 9:55 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/11/22 9:55 AM

How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 90 Join Date: 2/17/22 Recent Posts
I have a very bad personality. A lot of the time I am very ungreatful to people that have worked their ass off to help me. I have goten into the habit of getting angry over small things and throwing tantrums, which end up in me spewing all manner of insults and stuff at people, although I immediatly regret it afterwards. I also take a lot of things I have for granted. When this happens, my negative self-talk starts attacking me, causing me to feel shameful, and not really change. 

I know there are many different types of meditation, and right now I am practicing shargols noting, and seeing Annica in everything. I also have a practice log here. The problem is that there are many different types of meditation that are practiced for many different reasons. Althoug practicing kasina and getting visitations from celestial figures would be cool, it would not be really useful to top me acting like a jerk. It might make me act more like a jerk because I would feel "special" for having these "divine" visitations. 

My question: What type of meditation is best on-cushion and off-cushion to help me become a better person. Will noting help me, or should I try something else.
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Chris M, modified 8 Months ago at 3/11/22 10:15 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/11/22 10:15 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 4595 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Based on what you wrote, I suggest you go to anger management therapy. Meditation is nice (and you should do it) but it's "long-term helpful." You need immediately helpful stuff.
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AK D, modified 8 Months ago at 3/11/22 11:37 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/11/22 11:34 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 179 Join Date: 1/20/21 Recent Posts
+1 for Chris' suggestion for anger management therapy. Additionally consider journaling and reflect on what triggers your reactive patterns so that you're better able to catch yourself before you lash out in future situations.  

Additionally, Ken Mcleod's book "Wake Up to Your Life" has many discussions about reactive patterns and reactive emotions. You can listen to the audio book on Spotify. The chapter on working with reactive emotions is available here: https://open.spotify.com/track/07VELWl9vAAavmevpyaJ3g

There is more material about working with reactive emotions available on Ken's website Unfettered Mind: https://unfetteredmind.org/emotional-reactivity/

Additionally, consider doing heart based meditation such as Metta, the Brahmaviharas, or Tonglen (Taking and Sending: https://unfetteredmind.org/taking-and-sending/). Heart practices will help you to cultivate friendliness, compassion, patience, and equanimity towards yourself and others.

Meditation does help, but it is not a quick fix. This sort of human growth is really about developing maturity and that comes with time. Good luck!
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Daniel - san, modified 8 Months ago at 3/13/22 1:35 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/13/22 1:35 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 309 Join Date: 9/9/14 Recent Posts
Focus on compassion and cultivating bare awareness and equanimity that neither hopes or fears in the moment.  That's all. 

Your inner wisdom will literally naturally reveal itself to you if you learn to fully relax within the context of non-judgmental awareness, as opposed to relaxing into unconsciousness, i.e. dullness and sleep. 

Use your intuition, whether you surrender or not the universe is guiding your life - mistakes are not possible.
shargrol, modified 8 Months ago at 3/13/22 7:03 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/13/22 6:59 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 1872 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
I would say that "introspection" rather than meditation is what helps. Sure meditation can be like an adult "quite time" that momentarily lower stress levels, but the fact is we still need to learn to "deal" with our emotional baggage and all the undigested past memories that will continue to haunt our present. After we get rid of 60% of our stuff, then almost any meditation that is interesting is worth doing...

So therapy is probably the best place to start, but there is a book that I like that is like which is sort of a guided tour of therapy... If you really want to make change, it will help you to be honest about all the crazy feelings and thoughts and personal history/trauma you have and help you find your way out.... What I like about this book, instead of scholarly buddhist/psychology books that pretend the mind has simple and well-defined pathologies and/or pretends that meditation fixes everything, this book accepts that our minds and lives are a mess and talks directly about the reality of that. For what it's worth, its:  https://www.amazon.com/Invisible-Warfare-Mona-Miller/dp/0978665201  

​​​​​​​I'm sure there must be other books like it (I keep looking for a "therapy-in-a-book" book to recommend to people-- I'm interested in other recommendations) but this is the best I've found so far and I enjoyed how refreshingly honest and direct it was.
Macky Ben-Jonah, modified 8 Months ago at 3/14/22 7:30 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/14/22 7:30 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 90 Join Date: 2/17/22 Recent Posts
Thank you, thank ou very much Shargol. I will have a look at what everyone has sent me.
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Daniel - san, modified 8 Months ago at 3/14/22 11:13 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/14/22 11:13 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 309 Join Date: 9/9/14 Recent Posts
It's true, meditation is not for addressing your specific mental baggage, but what proper meditation does is show that all your mental content is just that, fleeting thoughts with no reality or substance.

When it comes to dealing with your actual personal content, your stories, in my opinion the most powerful psychology in a box is Byron Katie.  If you use her style of inquiry, asking if your ridiculous thoughts are true or not, you'll come to a place of knowing, and wisdom about the truth of your thoughts - you won't find it.

At a certain point after doing The Work consistently (BK's name for her system which was based off the AA 12 step program) it all happens naturally in the mind, things that are false are no longer taking as truth, praise and blame are discarded and one can see the limiting nature of how stories can imprison us, and on the flip side, free us.

The truth will set you free, stay with that.  Feeling groundless is normal when one is developing one self, the old ground needs to dissolve before new ground can form - enjoy the ride, you're prepping for flight, no ground required. 
shargrol, modified 8 Months ago at 3/14/22 12:56 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/14/22 12:56 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 1872 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
Byron Katie stuff can help, but like anything it can be misused...it's worth googling "Byron Katie controversy". 

Actually, it's pretty much always worth googling anything plus "controversy" emoticon
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/14/22 1:21 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/14/22 1:21 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
aloha macky,

   You should consider that your personality might be more appropriate to your situation than you imagine. We tend to expect smooth relations with people to result from genuine practice but contrariwise, people tend to challenge anyone who appears to be better than they are. This provides something of a touchstone, a test of our metal.

   Just sitting over time provides clarity through letting the mud settle. In clarity we see clearly how fucked up everything is, and how selfish and greedy people are. In considerable detail we may be able to see just how people ought to change in order to make the world a better place for everyone. Out of compassion we convey to them this information, which they reject. We then find ourselves in the uncomfortable position of having made an effort to help which is taken as insult and interference. Attempts to correct the situation similarly fail and we find ourselves in a downward spiral of recrimination and self-recrimination.

   Yes, this is very unpleasant, being critical and rejected and angry at rejection and lashing out. We want so badly to get people on board with us and they insist on going their own way. Even though they promised! and we believed them.

   This is what really hurts, we trusted and they violated that trust. We are lied to, deceived. We are promised respect and cooperation for acceptance and once accepted respect and cooperation deteriorated and disrespect sets in. Whole projects have to be abandoned or insolence tolerated and standards eroded.

   With the best of intentions and a pure heart, we try to carry out our commitments to people whose real agendas are veiled and whose good will is feigned.

   Yes, yes: hate rage and pain at the evil people do. And for us to make it so much worse - indeed the real problem, as evil in others is easily accepted - we cannot absolve ourselves from all these awful conditions and motivations (o the humanity).

   The left is evil, they are the enemies of humanity; I hate them! The right is evil, they are the enemies of humanity, I hate them! Just think of how profoundly justified the people who hold those views feel! Right or wrong, there is no peace in contending.

   So I sincerely sympathize, could have wrote it myself. I have learned that while my motives are essentially pure, I need to curb my enthusiasm.

   For advice, I'll say you are hard on others because you are hard on yourself. Lighten up on yourself, accept your faults and you will find those of others start to disappear. Our faults are that we try too hard, or not hard enough. You are finding your balance. This is a natural process with which you can only interfere.

   Just sit. After awhile you will settle down. Be kind to yourself and others.

love love love
terry




"I'll Stand By You"
(the pretenders)

​​​​​​​
Oh, why you look so sad?
Tears are in your eyes
Come on and come to me now
Don't be ashamed to cry
Let me see you through
'cause I've seen the dark side too
When the night falls on you
You don't know what to do
Nothing you confess
Could make me love you less

I'll stand by you
I'll stand by you
Won't let nobody hurt you
I'll stand by you

So if you're mad, get mad
Don't hold it all inside
Come on and talk to me now
Hey, what you got to hide?
I get angry too
Well I'm a lot like you
When you're standing at the crossroads
And don't know which path to choose
Let me come along
'cause even if you're wrong

I'll stand by you
I'll stand by you
Won't let nobody hurt you
I'll stand by you
Take me in, into your darkest hour
And I'll never desert you
I'll stand by you

And when...
When the night falls on you, baby
You're feeling all alone
You won't be on your own

I'll stand by you
I'll stand by you
Won't let nobody hurt you

I'll stand by you
Take me in, into your darkest hour
And I'll never desert you
I'll stand by you
I'll stand by you
Won't let nobody hurt you
I'll stand by you
Won't let nobody hurt you
I'll stand by you
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/14/22 1:35 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/14/22 1:35 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
lol

you ever been to an anger mangement session, chris?


there was a famous case here in hawaii where the leader of an anger mangement class put one of the patients in the hospital, and was arrested for assault...you want to meet some serious pissers, bra, go to school with them...most of them are required to attend by authorities, for good and obvious reasons...

in general I think that if you want to make your problems worse, seek medical help...

"people who go to see psychiatrists ought to have their heads examined" - alan watts
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/14/22 1:37 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/14/22 1:37 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
well, yes, exactly...

+1
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Daniel - san, modified 8 Months ago at 3/14/22 2:15 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/14/22 2:15 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 309 Join Date: 9/9/14 Recent Posts
shargrol
Byron Katie stuff can help, but like anything it can be misused...it's worth googling "Byron Katie controversy". 

Actually, it's pretty much always worth googling anything plus "controversy" emoticon

Google your discursive mind + controversy if you want a real scandal lol


I'm not sure about the woman BK, and I don't care, but her message is spot on and freeing for those that get stuck in their habitual unconscious mental loops
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Jim Smith, modified 8 Months ago at 3/14/22 10:03 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/14/22 10:00 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 1215 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Macky Ben-Jonah
...

My question: What type of meditation is best on-cushion and off-cushion to help me become a better person. Will noting help me, or should I try something else.


I would recommend more than just noting.

I suggest starting a meditation session with relaxation exercises.
Then do samatha meditation.
When you are relaxed and your mind is calm, then move on to some type of vipassana.

Don't strive for intensely strong concentration. Rather, observe thoughts, emotions, impulses, sensations, as they arise rather than trying to stop them from coming into awareness. As you observe, try to stay aware that  you are observing, without getting lost in thought, or carried away by emotions. Let yourself feel emotions that arise but after a bit go back to to focus of meditation. 

Try to notice how emotions are accompanied by physical sensations in your body. Try to be mindful of those sensations during daily life and try to relax any tensions that you feel when you notice emotions arising.  If you can practice in daily life, being mindful: observing the activity of your mind, and trying to be relaxed, you can make progress much faster than if you just do sitting meditation.

If you practice this way, you will learn how to relax as if it were a skill. In time you will develop greater and greater skill and you will be able to be relaxed in more and more different types of situations.  You will notice that you have a choice about whether to be calm and relaxed or allow emotions to arise. You will see that anger, fear, greed, ill will, hate, craving, selfishness, cruelty, etc are all options and that the option of serenity is much nicer than any of those.

(This is for emotions that you notice arising due to mental activity. Some type of emotions might be due to biological factors such as some types of depression or anxiety. Meditation might not help much with those, but it could help someone cope better with those types of emotions.)

Don't suppress, don't obsess. Find a middle ground of awareness and letting go.
shargrol, modified 8 Months ago at 3/15/22 8:17 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/15/22 8:17 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 1872 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
For M B-J:

I'm skimming the book notes for Atomic Habits... lots of good advice for making changes in your life through building better habits in tiny steps. Might be a good read:

https://www.samuelthomasdavies.com/book-summaries/self-help/atomic-habits/
Macky Ben-Jonah, modified 8 Months ago at 3/16/22 6:05 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/16/22 6:05 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 90 Join Date: 2/17/22 Recent Posts
Thaks for all of your advice. Just to clarify, are you saying that authough meditation is useful, it cannot break wrong thought patterns that cause actions such as anger, depression and low-self esteem. Are you saying that things such as Bryon Katie will be better at dealing with that, and if I supplement my meditation with Bryon Katie's quetions, it will help break my anger?
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Richard Zen, modified 8 Months ago at 3/16/22 10:29 AM
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RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 1664 Join Date: 5/18/10 Recent Posts
The way to look at the mind is that it is goal oriented and likes a lot of those things you say you want to stop. You basically have to learn to dislike those things enough that the mind WANTS to stop. You have to like the changes. I would recommend the above, especially any Anger Management psychology, which targets the problem directly. It's all emotional feeding, and meditation is about replacing junk food with healthy food. 

Within meditation, there is the Eightfold Path where there is a cognizance of causes and effects BEFORE you meditate. Meditation isn't very good when there's a lot of remorse with thoughts, speech, and actions. A lot of those preliminaries are skipped, but that just means years of wasted time on the cushion.

I'm in the middle of the series, but those earlier ones deal with this basic stuff so that meditation is more likely to achieve more peace: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrNBLR4djB7FPUUP6x0jLmPx5wv63ulli

In psychology, I would continue your understanding of feelings and what they are needing, and go into all that family work, and look into where your behaviors were imitated and what their goals are. Sometimes there are weak areas in the personality that are crying out for development and meditation won't deal with those things. Psychology would be a good Ninthfold path to start before Right View.

Step 1: study psychology targeted exactly in those areas your are in. For many people, psychology is the beginning and end for them. You need replacement goals that are far more interesting than the ones you currently have. Developing cool hobbies and interests to replace the current ones will go a long way. Going into family history, anger, resentment, views, and beliefs you have about the world are going to be needed. There are lots of stories of monks who have gotten great meditative attainments, but all the stuff you are talking about remains untouched.

Step 2: The Eightfold Path:
- Right View: Look at views and debates that cause needless stress. It's okay to have views, but trying to change the world, and especially changing others, is a recipe for dissatisfaction. [Enjoy avoiding energy draining conflicts with beliefs and views.]
- Right Resolve: Look at mind states that lead to conflict and try to steer your thoughts and actions in directions that preserve peace. [Enjoy when you are in a peaceful place. Don't overlook it.]
- Right Speech: Try to speak in ways that reduce conflict and preserve mental peace. This includes mental talk. [Enjoy a mind relaxed with less chatter.]
- Right Action: Look at actions and consequences. Paying attention to consequences is actually enjoyable and you can get a taste for it. [Enjoy actions that are peaceful and blameless.]
- Right Livelihood: This is a hard one, but I would focus on finding ways to like your work and interests and continue to steer in ways that lead to jobs with less conflict and all the above problems already listed. Not easy, but whatever you can achieve in that direction will help. [Enjoy your job.]
- Right Effort: With not too much force, or too little, enjoy moving your mind states into better ones. Treat meditation like an interesting hobby. Enjoy concentration states and other meditative altered states as a replacement for old ways.
- Right Mindfulness: Notice a Do-er in the mind that is trying to pretend to control what it can't control, including automatic functions from the right brain that are already working. Notice the pain of the mind trying to micromanage what doesn't need to be. The Subject > Object stressful push to "make things happen" is often not needed. The skills are either trained or not and that hype, pep talk, and force, is just a waste of energy. Skills are already at the ready and don't need left brain rituals to make them work. All words, which are compromises and conventions to describe vibratory experience, involve hard nouns of Subjects and Objects that already establish this stressful attitude of "I'm going to DO the meditation," as if it's the same as any other problematic forceful striving. Notice any type of movement of the attention span to denigrate the present moment and want to be in other locations with a subject hating now and want to be in different time locations and physical locations. Scan the body and relax unnecessary tensions. [Enjoy the peace of saving energy.]
- Right Concentration: Enjoy concentration states and develop as many Jhanas as you can. Learn about the Psychology of Flow and try to develop skills in life with concentration. Again, all this has to be done with a light touch. It's that striver Subject > Object concept that you want to see is polluting everything, including the meditation. Just light flicks of movement of attention to vibrations or to follow the breath is needed. At the beginning people tend to over strive, furrow the brow and torture their body before they intend to do anything, and that's the part of the mind that needs to relax. [Enjoy flow states.]

It's all about emotional feeding and learning to feed in ways that feel blameless so that you feel great at the end of an activity and refreshed and it replaces all those other enjoyments, including very intense ones, that constantly leave a bad taste in your mouth, so to say. Psychology helps you to understand that you find enjoyment in areas where there's ambivalence and negative consequences that you don't enjoy. Desire will look for replacements, so replacing old desires with more sustainable ones will involve peaceful enjoyment.
Macky Ben-Jonah, modified 8 Months ago at 3/16/22 11:17 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/16/22 11:17 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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I have been trying right speech especially. This thing is that when I am not angry, I can practice right speech(to an extent, a lot of times I simply forget), but when I get angry, all that flies out of the window. I fly into a rage and say anything to get attention.
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Chris M, modified 8 Months ago at 3/16/22 3:45 PM
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RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail, so I'll repeat my earlier comment. The trend here is that mediation is the answer to virtually every personal problem. Mediation can be very helpful over the long term. It is not a short-term cure. If you are, as you said in the original post, being abusive to people and, as you infer in your last post, unable to control yourself in your anger, then you really need to find a helpful strategy and set of tactics you can use that are more immediate.
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Ni Nurta, modified 8 Months ago at 3/16/22 4:59 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/16/22 4:59 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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Being angry without proper reason is pathetic.
Not being angry with proper reason for anger is also pathetic.

Usually there is no reason for anger. When you get angry then notice how pathetic you look and get angry about that instead. At least then it be honest anger and directed at right object!
George S, modified 8 Months ago at 3/16/22 6:40 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/16/22 6:35 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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Macky:- This is probably old repressed anger you are reacting to, which was imprinted during some emotionally difficult experiences in childhood/adolescence.

The problem is not with the emotion itself, the problem is with the way you are reacting to it (taking it out on other people). Emotions are never "wrong" by themselves. The solution is to allow yourself to really feel the anger in the body in a safe space where you won't take it out on others, then it will slowly dissolve over time. It might sound counterintuitive, but taking the anger out on others is actually a way of avoiding having to feel the anger yourself. This repression of anger is a learned behavior, e.g. when a child grows up with angry caregivers and the child realizes it is not safe to express anger then he/she pushes it down inside the body where it festers waiting for a trigger.

In theory you can do this kind of anger work on your own in meditation - using the anger as your "meditation object" and allowing it to release in awareness. But depending on the depth of the emotional trauma, that may be very hard and inadvisable. As you release old anger you might actually find yourself feeling more angry for a period. Really it is just increased awareness of the old anger that is already there, but sometomes it can get very intense and you might find yourself reacting even more (retraumatizing yourself (and others)). This is why what Chris suggests is the best course of action - find a trained specialist in anger/trauma work who can guide you through the process in the specific context of your own life and conditioning. You can always integrate the process into your meditation and actually, therapy + meditation together is a very powerful combination.
Macky Ben-Jonah, modified 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 5:17 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 5:17 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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Chris M
When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail, so I'll repeat my earlier comment. The trend here is that mediation is the answer to virtually every personal problem. Mediation can be very helpful over the long term. It is not a short-term cure. If you are, as you said in the original post, being abusive to people and, as you infer in your last post, unable to control yourself in your anger, then you really need to find a helpful strategy and set of tactics you can use that are more immediate.

Do you have any particular resources or advice?
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Chris M, modified 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 7:00 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 7:00 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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Do you have any particular resources or advice?

IMHO, if the problem is beyond your control therapy is the first thing to try.
Macky Ben-Jonah, modified 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 7:43 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 7:43 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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Chris M
Do you have any particular resources or advice?

IMHO, if the problem is beyond your control therapy is the first thing to try.


Ok, but what type of therapy should I go to. Should I try self-help CBT anger management techniqes. If so, what. Should I go to a physical therapist. If so, which one?
Macky Ben-Jonah, modified 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 7:47 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 7:47 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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George S
Macky:- This is probably old repressed anger you are reacting to, which was imprinted during some emotionally difficult experiences in childhood/adolescence.

The problem is not with the emotion itself, the problem is with the way you are reacting to it (taking it out on other people). Emotions are never "wrong" by themselves. The solution is to allow yourself to really feel the anger in the body in a safe space where you won't take it out on others, then it will slowly dissolve over time. It might sound counterintuitive, but taking the anger out on others is actually a way of avoiding having to feel the anger yourself. This repression of anger is a learned behavior, e.g. when a child grows up with angry caregivers and the child realizes it is not safe to express anger then he/she pushes it down inside the body where it festers waiting for a trigger.

In theory you can do this kind of anger work on your own in meditation - using the anger as your "meditation object" and allowing it to release in awareness. But depending on the depth of the emotional trauma, that may be very hard and inadvisable. As you release old anger you might actually find yourself feeling more angry for a period. Really it is just increased awareness of the old anger that is already there, but sometomes it can get very intense and you might find yourself reacting even more (retraumatizing yourself (and others)). This is why what Chris suggests is the best course of action - find a trained specialist in anger/trauma work who can guide you through the process in the specific context of your own life and conditioning. You can always integrate the process into your meditation and actually, therapy + meditation together is a very powerful combination.

Thank you very much for your kind words and advice. I am very confused about what you have said about trauma. I'm in my late teens, and IMO I have had a great childhood. My parents were not abusive, nor distant. I never had any bad emotional experiences or trauma of any kind. This fact also gives me a lot of shame when I get angry. This is because I start thinking how I have not had any abuse or trauma, so then I have no excuse to have such out of control anger.
I will start looking into therapy options, though.
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Chris M, modified 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 8:08 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 8:05 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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If I were in your shoes I'd contact my regular physician, explain the problems I'm having, and ask for a referral to a therapist who has successfully treated uncontrolled anger. By using the word "therapist" I mean a mental health professional, like a psychiatrist.
Martin, modified 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 10:43 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 10:43 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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A problem with getting advice on a forum like this is that the people responding do not know very much about the situation. Your age makes a difference in terms of what can be expected. A person in their late teens and a person in their late 30s, for example, might be pointing to very different things with the words asshole and a jerk. Also, assuming that we are not talking about violence or danger to yourself or others, being a jerk, at least at times, in one's teen years, or even early 20s, is pretty common. Most people grow out of it. 

I personally notice that people who do intensive Mahasi style noting report more psychological distress, at least in the short a medium term, than people who engage in more open noting samatha type practices. If you would like some links to that kind of material, let me know. That said, I agree with Chris that meditation is unlikely to be a quick or complete fix. 

Meditation might help, sports might help, talking to your parents might help, talking to a family friend might help, talking to a religious leader, like a pastor might help, talking to a school counselor might help. If you talk to some of these people and they think a psychiatrist or someone like that might help, then that might help. But I would not suggest that you assume you need a major professional intervention based on what has been said in this thread alone. You obviously have a strong moral sense and a desire to protect those around you, so I'm 99% sure you are a good guy, with a good heart. If you are interested in Buddhism, depending on where you live, there may be a wat or temple you could visit, you could also drop in at a church, mosque or synagogue, as these are places devoted to questions like how to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk. 
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 12:11 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 12:11 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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richard's idea that you simply replace bad mental contdnt (junk food) with good mental content (images of mental health) seems flawed to me...just more bullshit, grade a vs grade b or c...<br /><br />the problem is attachment to thinking, taking it seriously...cure is meditation...<br /><br />the implication here is that people can help with this personal problem...<br /><br />you have to solve it yourself...yes we all support you however we may but it is on you to buck up and get it right...<br /><br />if you refuse you will have to be 'helped' and that isn't good...<br /><br />tough titties, eh?
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 12:34 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 12:34 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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therapy that involves taking  all of ones bullshit seriously only reinforces bullshit...

all hope abandon ye who enter therapy...

if you really need to give up control of your life and turn it over to a therapist, try at least to find a kind person who is also shelterig from the storm and just trying to make their own way and help whom they can while maintaining their living standards by working a bullshit job like therapy...


trick is to not identify with toxiic thinking, not to trace its origins and take whining and puling and tantrums seriously...

where once we would simply advise someone to grow up now we send them to therapy to make the cycle permanent and not incidently enrich the professional mental help sector...


I don't deny that intervention can be required when people won't refrain from hurting other people...I deny that such intervention actually helps the subject, however it protects others from abuse...

people who want help from a forum such as this are going to get meditation, because that is the medicine asked for here, eh? being an asshole and a jerk is not a medical condition...it is a fact of life we all deal with from both ends every day...

giving it this level of attention should be enough for the young man...

at least try to cure yourself before imposing on others whose motive is mainly their own profit, whatever you therapists think..if you gave therapy away free I might have more respect for it...

t


tao te ching, trans feng

SEVENTY-ONE

Knowing ignorance is strength.
Ignoring knowledge is sickness.

If one is sick of sickness, then one is not sick.
The sage is not sick because he is sick of sickness.
Therefore he is not sick.
George S, modified 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 6:33 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/17/22 6:33 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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Sorry, I was offering it more as an an example of how such issues can develop (and a reflection of my own experience!) rather than a diagnosis of your situation, which obviously I know nothing about.

Looking back I can see that I developed anger issues in my teens, although I had less awareness of it than you. If you had asked me then how my upringing was, I probably would have answered 'pretty great'. It was only through therapy that I started to understand the dysfunctional emotional substratum of my childhood.
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Chris M, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 7:09 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 7:09 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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all hope abandon ye who enter therapy...

Aloha, terry.

Have you been in therapy at any time in your life? You certainly seem to have an aversion to it. Is this aversion from direct experience or observation, or? Really just curious. My thought would be that a trained, skilled, and ethical therapist (a psychiatrist) can be a godsend. I say this from personal experience.
Joseph Ernedal, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 8:14 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 8:14 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 5 Join Date: 1/28/21 Recent Posts
With the context of your age, I believe having solid role models in life that we are regularly interacting with can be a real help. There is a real segregation of age groups that is exacerbated by the internet age, and a real 'us vs. them' mentality that can and has developed between different age groups. This unfortunate rift of authority figures can blind us to finding true friendship amongst older role models that we interact with regularly. Learning by example is a powerful force, it is much easier to learn and change behaviors by talking to older people who have successfully changed behaviors themselves than to try and self-teach ourselves through our own issues that we often can identify (congratulations on identifying them by the way and seeing it as a problem, that is a big success right there), but maybe don't have the perfect formula or cure for. So finding someone who is calm and has some level of stability to model ourselves off of and ask for advice can be really helpful, a role model that makes us say "wow i really want to be a better person and be like that person."

I have dealt with problems allowing my anger to manifest in a healthy non-harmful manner to others, and in the past I unfortunately must admit I was abusive mentally and physically to partners. So the ongoing step for me is remembering that change is definitely possible and my responsibility each and every time anger arises. When you find yourself labelled as an abusive man, often you are painted into a corner by your own mental image of what it means to be abusive, and the possibility of real change can seem hopeless. This is often reaffirmed when you make a firm commitment to change and then find yourself repeating a behavior that in good faith you swore you would give up.

So in recognizing this pattern occuring, we can see that trying to prevent the rage from arising is not the way to deal with this, but becoming faster and faster with mindfulness of catching the first signs of it and learning skills for dealing with this. Its really basic but worth repeating, but generally the skills to master here are knowing how to walk away from a situation, how to take deep breaths and allow the emotion to settle, and be prepared for the emotion to arise again when the triggering situation potentially arises again. Become really good friends with what anger does to our minds, how it feels in the body, what sensations arise when the anger is present.

A helpful practice can be when we are really calm and collected to bring up a memory that is sure to cause anger (if you really actually have issues with anger/rage, this shouldn't be a problem, for me it would be a sign that your anger isn't as bad as you think if you can't conciously cause yourself to feel rage thinking of certain events in your life), and feel the conditioning of the body and mind. If we are aware of the physical sensations of the emotions and not afraid of them anymore, and can see these thoughts as just thoughts, we can train ourselves to respond differently to these sensations when they are familiar. Instead of the thought "oh no not this shit again, i thought i was supposed to be working on this anger and getting over it" we can welcome it "ah, yes there you are again my old familiar friend, what am i supposed to do again when this happens? Oh right i'm supposed to leave the situation and take a walk. But fuck that i dont feel like taking a walk right now! Right there that is the irrational anger talking, and I know in this moment not to listen to those thoughts and be very careful and to slow everything down so that i dont do anything regrettable." And it sort of goes back and forth like that in the brain sometimes but we have to stay resolute and very focused on what it is that we are supposed to be doing when the emotions are arising (walking away from the situation, taking deep breaths, taking a walk or sitting for as long as necessary and probably longer than we think necessary).

Therapists can be very hit or miss in my experience, depending on their own backround and conditioning. Sometimes I find they give the impression that you are a lost cause if you have developed abusive habits, or they take a very harsh attitude here and depending on the situation it can be less than helpful, if the anger developed as a response to our backround running into a lot of harsh courseness. The best therapists have been kind and patient and asking things softly like "don't you want to stop hurting the people around you? don't you think you can change and develop new patterns and habits when anger is arising?" And less "you really got to get your shit together and grow up, a man should never abuse a woman that is completely unacceptable." While this last statement is true, depending on how self-aware we are, we may be very aware of this fact and been raised with this as a hard and fast rule and yet unable to maintain that rule when the rage is present, leading to more shame and the cycle repeating itself. Its difficult because at the same time, there is a large % of abusive personalities that are completely dilluded and honestly need to hear "get your shit together and stop being a dick," I have met some young men that I have tried to help and could clearly see that they had a very deluded idea of what are acceptable boundaries for interacting with others. Someone asking for advice on a meditation forum strikes me as unlikely to be in that category though, you probably have an idea of how you are reacting is wrong and truly want to change.

So metta practices as outlined by teachers such as Ajahn Sona and Thich Nhat Hanh's general teachings have been the biggest help meditation wise for dealing with this stuff. You might find the book "Anger" by Thich Nhat Hanh helpful, for a while I re-read that book constantly trying to make a firm commitment to get a handle on this stuff and stop hurting the people around me.

Unfortunately it was too late for my relationship when I did change. My partner had heard it for years that I would change my behavior and it was the situation of the boy who cried wolf, where even when the abusive patterns stopped and it really did sink it to take these simple steps every single time (walking away from situations, practicing deep mindful breathing when seeing the first signs of anger), she had heard it so many times in the past that I would change that it was much too late to save the relationship. We tried for 2 years afterwards to make it work and I had no incidents of abuse either mental or physical, yet she was living on edge waiting for it to return, and unfortunately it created the habit pattern of uncontrollable rage in herself. Its one of the most regrettable things I have done in my life, knowing I hurt the person closest to me so badly that they are going to have psychological scars to deal with for many years. I hope you never have to go through a similar experience, but you have the skills and awareness and can develop those further to prevent something like this from happening, and I truly wish that you can find a way of healthily relating to your anger so that you dont harm those you love mentally or physically. Try metta practice wholeheartedly with full commitment and allow it to change your life.
Joseph Ernedal, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 8:37 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 8:32 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 5 Join Date: 1/28/21 Recent Posts
Also just wanted to mention as a reminder that metta starts with learning to love and appreciate ourselves and become soft, gentle, and caring to those aspects of our own personality that we have aversion to and avoid. Often the aspects of another person that annoy us the most are ones we exhibit ourselves and don't like to admit that they are a part of ourselves. So basically we can start by reframing "I have a bad personality" to "Its wonderful that i've developed the awareness to see those aspects of myself that I truly and fully want to change." We have to start talking to ourselves in a soft, caring, loving and kind way if we ever hope to develop that way of interacting with others.

And also sorry if I mis-guessed and you aren't really raging as hard as my previous post implied, I just sort of "read between the lines" a bit and assumed that uncontrollable anger at small events could possibly be manifesting as abusive patterns and tendencies. I could be totally off though and your way of describing it could really mean that you are just being slightly aversive to the full humanity of having real emotions and wanting to eliminate something from human experience that you can't totally eliminate, but that you can learn to relate to and express in a healthy way. Often this is exacerbated when someone else says things like "you have got to stop being angry at all these little things, theres no reason to be angry about that," and we can't logically see that just because they think its not something to be angry about doesn't mean that it can't actually lead to anger in ourselves due to whatever conditioning is going on with ourselves. So its more like "you have got to learn to express your anger in a healthy way and learn the tools to recognize, respond, handle and calm down your emotions when they arise at the small stuff," but its rare people in our lives will say something like that to us. I am not sure personally I can ever totally "stop sweating the small stuff" that seems to affect others in a lesser way than myself, but I can surely learn to express what I am feeling in a healthier way to those around me. Learn to take a walk and breathe deeply.
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 1:35 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 1:35 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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i expected someone to ask me if I had a bad experience, or to say that I should be in therapy.

No, I never felt the need for therapy and stayed out of trouble.. I was "counseled" as a teenager but that was a scam on both sides.

I honestly can't imagine meeting a therapist I couldn't con, or end up counselling myself.

I'm not averse to therapy, I'm averse to late capitalism. I think the therapy industry is just another effect of the pursuit of wealth and status at the expense of order, sense and dignity. In hawaii, I give you advice and a few weeks later you give me some bananas.

There are realtively few genuinely mentally ill people and a great number of alienated folk who are encouraged to think their alienation is a personal deficiency that needs to be rectified by therapy, so that the patient may return to enjoying "normal" life. This "normal" life is the problem, not one's adjustment to it. We should be angry at exxon, bayer, nestles, amazon, google, verizon et al just to name a few of the most egregious offenders. And their lickspittle lackeys, the politicians, particularly the trumpy antivaxer antiscience lemmings who exploit the deplorable ignorance of the average western consumer whose face is so buried in the trough they can't see anything but tv.

So, not the therapy industry so much as all industry is alienating all of us by destroying our planet and its biosphere about as rapidly as it is possible to accomplish it short of nukes, and we'll probably use those as well.

The picture I see is bleak, bra. I don't mince words any longer the time is too short. It is now our own children, if not ourselves, who will face the displacement of millions or billions due to climate change. And emissions each year still exceed each previous year, we are doing nothing but lie about it and continue to burn baby burn.

My latest favorite tee shirt says "earth first!" I want start a chapter of extinction rebellion here but no one demonstrates in hawaii, we're too laid back.

Hey, you  could get therapy for end of the world blues...

terry
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 1:46 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 1:46 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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you remember catch-22?<br /><br />if you are seeking therapy you are not crazy and don't need it...<br /><br />get back in the war machine, son...
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 1:57 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 1:57 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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trained, skilled, ethical...it just makes me sad...

ya know chris, I worked in hospitals for decades, and my experience of psychiatrtists was that they were drug or drink addled individulas with more serious problems than their patients...



just sayin...
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 2:05 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 2:05 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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maybe for me its like someone who worked at a macdonalds never eating another meat patty or french fry...

​​​​​​​
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Chris M, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 2:39 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 2:39 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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ya know chris, I worked in hospitals for decades, and my experience of psychiatrtists was that they were drug or drink addled individulas with more serious problems than their patients...

Sure, I get that, terry. Your experience is different than most. I've witnessed therapy do very good things for people. I've witnessed people who aren't serious about therapy waste a good therapist's time and their own money.  I've witnessed shitty therapists do nothing or, worse, cause more problems. My experience has been that one has to be skeptical. Test, test, test. Gotta work to find a good one.
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Daniel - san, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 3:28 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 3:27 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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I think Terry is spot on in regards to pragmatic dharma and real contemplative practice, at least after kindergarten, no?

Isn't one of the first activities of vipassana to disembed from one's personal baggage so we have the opportunity to see what makes us tick, and therefore naturally be released from beating the shit out of ourselves much of time, through self-awareness?

This is actually something that Daniel Ingram wrote about in MCTB in a frustrated way, folks asking retreat teachers to be their psychologist instead of actually practicing.  I'm a kitchen designer and folks want me to be their (underpaid) therapist a lot of the time.

IMO, part of maturation is becoming our own psychologist, not that that's always possible, but paying someone to listen to you talk about your personal problems seems to me...problematic.
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Chris M, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 3:53 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 3:47 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

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IMO, part of maturation is becoming our own psychologist, not that that's always possible, but paying someone to listen to you talk about your personal problems seems to me...problematic.

There are people who have serious issues that they cannot self-diagnose or resolve. If a person doesn't need a psychiatrist then, by all means, paying for one's time is a waste of money unless a person wants to use therapy as a self-exploration technique. Mediation is not real therapy, and therapy is not real meditation. I don't believe blurring these lines is helpful for folks in the can't help themselves category.
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Daniel - san, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 4:14 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 4:02 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 309 Join Date: 9/9/14 Recent Posts
ps how do you remove these annoying quotes I'm seriously going to need therapy to deal with my frustration here​​​​​​​

Here's my way:

I go to the advanced editor link (at the bottom right after you hit "Reply") and then change the text to HTML source in the edit menu (use the <source> button in the menu). You can then edit the crap out of all the text in a comment, including the removal of the quote command.

Another way is to use the advanced editor to highlight the quoted text in your reply and then click on the quotes button in the editor.

A third way is to never use the "Reply with Quote" button, but rather to copy the text you want to quote, hut the plain old "Reply" button, paste the copied text into your comment, highlight it and then click on the "quote" button in the advanced editor.

​​​​​​​
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 4:04 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 4:04 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
you can't buy love<br /><br />!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Chris M, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 4:06 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 4:06 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 4595 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Glad we agree!
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Chris M, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 4:16 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 4:16 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 4595 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
you can't buy love

reminds me of a song

"Buy buy love
buy buy happiness
hello loneliness
I think I'm goona cry-y"

;-)
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 4:21 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 4:21 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
   I think you miss my point, chris, about therapy and therapists.It certinly isn't about wasting their time, for which they are well paid. For gods sake.

   They will shrink your mind to fit their world.

   Imagine van gogh in therapy. Though I identify more with hannibal lector.

   Its like eating meat or buying fast fashion. Waching netflix, or false news.

    As long as you stay in line you stay meaningless, and that's the way they like it. Just keep rendering unto amazon and trust us, we'll take care of you. Says so in the scriptures.

   As the buddha said, "Wake up!"

t


​​​​​​​trained, skilled, ethical...

“Imagine that the keeper of a huge, strong beast notices what makes it angry, what it desires, how it has to be approached and handled, the circumstances and the conditions under which it becomes particularly fierce or calm, what provokes its typical cries, and what tones of voice make it gentle or wild. Once he's spent enough time in the creature's company to acquire all this information, he calls it knowledge, forms it into a systematic branch of expertise, and starts to teach it, despite total ignorance, in fact, about which of the creature's attitudes and desires is commendable or deplorable, good or bad, moral or immoral. His usage of all these terms simply conforms to the great beast's attitudes, and he describes things as good or bad according to its likes and dislikes, and can't justify his usage of the terms any further, but describes as right and good the things which are merely indispensable, since he hasn't realised and can't explain to anyone else how vast a gulf there is between necessity and goodness.”


― Plato, The Republic
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Chris M, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 4:28 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 4:26 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 4595 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I think you miss my point, chris, about therapy and therapists.It certinly isn't about wasting their time


Hahaha - no, I got you. I know what you meant. It's also what I meant -- and that the patient is wasting their time (the patient's time). That's why I typed in "their own money." The patient pays. The therapist is getting paid.
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 4:40 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 4:40 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
aloha joseph,

   Good stuff.

terry
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 4:57 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/18/22 4:57 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
a song about personal responsibility in the face of societal demands...


THE UNIVERSAL SOLDIER
(buffy st marie)

He's five feet two and he's six feet four
He fights with missiles and with spears
He's all of 31 and he's only 17
He's been a soldier for a thousand years

He's a Catholic, a Hindu, an athiest, a Jain,
a Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew
and he knows he shouldn't kill 
and he knows he always will
kill you for me my friend and me for you

And he's fighting for Canada, 
he's fighting for France,
he's fighting for the USA,
and he's fighting for the Russians 
and he's fighting for Japan, 
and he thinks we'll put an end to war this way

And he's fighting for Democracy
and fighting for the Reds
He says it's for the peace of all
He's the one who must decide 
who's to live and who's to die
and he never sees the writing on the wall

But without him how would Hitler have 
condemned him at Dachau
Without him Caesar would have stood alone
He's the one who gives his body 
as a weapon to a war
and without him all this killing can't go on

He's the universal soldier and he 
really is to blame
His orders come from far away no more
They come from him, and you, and me
and brothers can't you see
this is not the way we put an end to war
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 3:08 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 3:08 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
some stats to consider, chris...


from https://fortunly.com/statistics/healthcare-spending-statistics/


The US spends more on healthcare than any other developed nation, and yet it has the lowest life expectancy and the highest infant mortality rates.

US healthcare spending is high, and the country doesn’t have much to show for it. JAMA researchers compared America with 10 other high-income countries around the world: Australia, the UK, Canada, Germany, France, Japan, Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, and Switzerland. In 2016, America spent 17.8% of its GDP on healthcare. Other countries ranged from Switzerland, where healthcare costs accounted for 12.4%, to Australia, which spent 9.6% on healthcare. 

Life expectancy in the US was also lower than in any other country — 78.8 years. In the other countries, life expectancy ranged from 80.7 to 83.9 years. As for infant mortality rates, the US had 5.8 fatalities out of every 1,000 live births. For other countries, the average was 3.6 fatalities for every 1,000 live births.

If America can’t protect its people, then why does healthcare spending by country indicate that it spends more than anyone else? Where is all that money going?

The next section might give you a clue. 

Why Is American Healthcare so Expensive?

The US spent 18% of its GDP on healthcare in 2017.

With 57.6% of the population overweight or obese, 647,457 people dying from cardiovascular disease every year, and 598,038 people dying from cancer, US spending on healthcare almost seems justified. But 18% is more than twice the amount other developed countries pay. What gives? Are Americans simply that sick?

Hardly. In truth, there are several reasons why healthcare is so pricey. Expensive medication, expensive procedures, high salaries for doctors and nurses, and exorbitant administrative costs all contribute to the problem. 

Wondering how much the country spends on all of this? We break it down in the next few stats. 

On average, general physicians in America earned $218,173 in 2016.

Compare this to the $86,607 that they earned in Sweden and the $154,126 that they earned in Germany. America pays its doctors better than most other countries in the world. 

Administrative costs accounted for 8% of total healthcare spending in the US in 2016.

In other countries, the numbers range between 1% and 3%. American doctors report a high level of “administrative burden.” Marking clinical data reports and resolving insurance claims not only takes a lot of time and effort for physicians, but it also costs a lot of money. 

In 2016, $329 billion was spent on pharmaceuticals alone.

Medication is incredibly expensive in America, and a lot of people simply don’t have the funds they need to buy life-saving medicines.

Here’s an example: An average year’s supply of insulin for a single person with type one diabetes was $2,864 in 2012. In 2016, the average cost was $5,705. Increasing the price of drugs like insulin is extremely dangerous. Without the funds to buy them, people can die (and they definitely do). 

The average cost for a coronary bypass surgery in America is $75,345. For Switzerland, it’s $36,509.

Another thing that drives up the cost of healthcare in the US is high procedure prices. While the expertise of American doctors certainly can’t be disputed, the costliness is driving up outgoing medical tourism.

​​​​​​​Americans travel to Brazil, India, Mexico, Turkey, and Thailand because they can get procedures done for a fraction of the price. According to the American Journal of Medicine, 1.4 million Americans traveled outside of the US for procedures in 2017, compared to 750,000 in 2007.
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Ni Nurta, modified 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 7:53 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 7:53 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 938 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Issues like described in this topic are most likely because of diet.
If person has eg. not enough iron then what do you suppose happens? They feel irritated as hell that is what. One person might react with retracting back to their cave and other might react with anger... or in this case most probably both. Anger when something wants from you. The anger reaction is not skillful and has to be handled but first the main issue should be fixed.

Not saying this is iron in this case. Can be any number of things or it can be not related diet. It is just one of these things which can always be the case. Even day to day, depending what we eat things can change (especially when we are already missing lots of stuff while having too much others!) and our mood with it. Some elements we are always running chronically low on like boron. Some people do not even know how it feels to have proper levels of it. How are they supposed to feel good in this case?

What makes it all worse is that there are no easy tests which can be made and even doing blood tests we would get snapshot with some results which would be hard to interpret. For one we do not know how much of what eg. element we need. Also blood levels is hardly good indicator of organism as a whole needs and stop indicating there is an issue (hint: if something is missing then we experience this thing called "dukkha")

Observing your organism, checking how it feels, how it changes how it feels when eating stuff to recognize what you should eat when is part of being alive. We could pretend we have balanced diet and in case of issues we go to doctor and they will tell us. It doesn't work like that. If you feel terrible because you lack some obscure element that just doesn't happen in food you eat and after it ran out of your organism you started feeling agitated and go to therapy you will learn your childhood you were proud of sucked. They will always find some reason, they will find anything to justify their service.
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Chris M, modified 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 8:04 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 8:04 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 4595 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Therapist = Demon from Hell

​​​​​​​emoticon
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Ni Nurta, modified 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 8:38 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 8:38 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 938 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Chris M
Therapist = Demon from Hell

​​​​​​​emoticon
First thing which you said that I agree with completely and without any reservations or doubt emoticon

More specifically therapists are like pain elementals because they spawn lost souls emoticon
​​​​​​​
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Chris M, modified 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 8:44 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 8:44 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 4595 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Aloha again, terry.

I'm fully aware of the healthcare costs in the US compared to almost every other developed industrial nation. It's a ridiculous situation that seemingly has no achievable solution. Americans have a blind spot or total aversion to "socialized medicine" - until they reach the age of 65, when they get socialized medicine. I turned 65 in August and have medicare coverage now, so I'm either a victim or a beneficiary, depending on who you talk to. I used to administer a small company health insurance plan. I did that for about ten years in the '90s and early 2000s. I can't recall a year in which the cost of our health insurance went down. In some years the increases were in double digits.

A major problem with the US system is that the consumer of health care and coverage of the costs is typically a company, not the patient, so the supply/demand balance, knowledge of the real cost of care, is not known to the patient before they get caught up in the system after a serious health event. Then it's often too late. Americans tend to think they have market-based health care coverage, and they sort of do but it's not the "market" they think it is. The market is hidden from them, so it's really easy for them to ignore it and fall for the "we must have a free market" version.

One of my best friends is an economist who is Canadian but lives and works in the US. She's in the catbird seat when it comes to healthcare - she uses the Canadian system for routine medical needs because it's free and quite good at that kind of care. She stays in the US for acute care because she thinks the US system is better and faster - but by no means cheaper.

So, I guess I'm with you on this.

Nice subject switcheroo, btw  emoticon
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Chris M, modified 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 8:45 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 8:45 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 4595 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Oh, the irony!
Macky Ben-Jonah, modified 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 9:42 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 9:42 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 90 Join Date: 2/17/22 Recent Posts
Ok
Iwill

1) Keep meditating continuously
2) Practice Bryon Katie
3) Practice mindful speech

If my anger escalates any furthur, I will see a therapist. What do you guy's think?
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Chris M, modified 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 11:22 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 11:22 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 4595 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
What do you guy's think?

I just hope your anger issues are addressed in an effective way, whatever you do. I really don't think taking the advice of any of us here is best for you. We don't know you at all. I'm sure you have people in your life who love you and care about you, and I hope you start talking to them, not us.
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Ni Nurta, modified 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 11:26 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 11:26 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 938 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
What kind of meditation do you intend to do?
Practices like vipassana Mahasi noting can be more useful in changing behavior long-term but can also agitate mind more and lead to dukkha nanas (otherwise called Dark Night) while practices like breath concentration might give better results short-term but are less likely to lead to substantial changes.

My suggestion would be to practice both but especially useful to focus on breath concentration at first to learn to relax using it. Not so much hardcore concentration but more relaxed type, just learn to be with yourself and your breath as a way to relieve any built-up stress. If whenever you feel you start feeling that you might be getting angry slow down whatever you do and take longer deeper breaths. It should help your mind to relax.
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Ni Nurta, modified 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 1:47 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/19/22 1:47 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 938 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
What are you saying Chris?

My advices are imho splendid.
- get angry at yourself how ridiculous getting angry is when it is without good reason rather than remaining angry at loved ones - it is a kind of self observation, vipassana even
- check if there is some elements missing - physical aspect of one's own mood can never be understated!
- do a nice relaxing breath concentration to learn how to chill out quickly - do I need to stress importance of relaxation on forum about meditation?
- do some exorcisms to expel therapists and their "how does that makes you feel?" nonsense from one's own life - we already clarified therapy is the worst ^_^

Guy comes here asking about meditation and if anything any other working advices and not therapy.
If we assume therapy actually works then let's send everyone to therapy right away eg.:

Q: I had something that seemed like A&P and now I experience fear and disgust, what to do guys? What to do...
A: You are mentally ill and need to go to therapy. Case closed.

Q: I have attained 4th path, there is no such thing as solid self. I have never been more well in my life! Thank you all for your support!
A: You definitely need to go to therapy... ASAP!!1
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 2:00 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 2:00 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
for macky especially and anyone else who needs blessing...




Matthew 51

He said:

3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
    for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
    for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
    for they will be filled."



from sermon 53, meister eckhart

I used to think sometimes, when I came here, that man could come in time to compel God. If I were up here, and said to someone, 'Come up here,' that would be hard for him, but if I said, 'Sit down here,' that would be easy. This is what God does. Whenever a man humbles himself, God is unable to withhold His own goodness; He is obliged to sink Himself, to pour Himself out into that humble man, and to the meanest of all He gives Himself most and gives Himself wholly. What God gives is His being, and His being is His goodness, and His goodness is His love. All sorrow and all joy comes from love. I was thinking on the way, when I was supposed to come here, that I did not want to come here because I should become wet with love. Perhaps you too have been wet with love, but we shall not discuss that. Joy and sorrow both come from love. A man should not fear God, for he who fears Him, flees Him. Such a fear is harmful fear. The right sort of fear is the fear of losing God. Man should not fear Him, he should love Him, for God loves man to the highest perfection. The masters say that all things strive to give birth, and to become like the Father. And they declare that the earth flees from the heavens: but if she flees downward, she comes downward to heaven, and if she flees upward, then she comes to the lowest of the heavens. The earth can never flee so low but heaven flows into her and impresses his power on her and fructifies her, whether she wishes it or not. It is just the same with a man: he thinks he can get away from God, but he cannot escape Him, for every nook and cranny reveals Him. He thinks he is fleeing from God, and runs into His arms. God gives birth to His only-begotten Son in you whether you like it or not; whether you are asleep or awake, God does His work. I was speaking recently about whose fault it was if a man could not taste that, and I said it was because his tongue was coated with extraneous filth, that is to say, with creatures, just like a man to whom all food seems bitter and not to his taste. Why don't we like this food? The reason is for lack of salt. The salt is divine love. If we had divine love we should savor God, and all the works God ever performed, we should receive all things from God, and do all the works that He does. In this sameness we are all His only Son.
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 2:13 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 2:13 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
pawel wrote:

"Issues like described in this topic are most likely because of diet."

(I laughed out loud at this)

"If person has eg. not enough iron then what do you suppose happens? They feel irritated as hell that is what."

totally wrong...I was a former bloodbanker, have performed over ten thousand phlebotomies, and have given gallons of blood...just a few weeks ago (I'm still recovering) I gave a double unit of packed red cells and I tell you what, it mellowed me right out...its been known since the middle ages that bloodletting reduces a choleric humour...and also reduces chances of heart attack or stroke...lowers blood pressure...

you should give blood for your own benefit, and for that of others...people who need blood need it pretty much...

it's safe...
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 2:32 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 2:32 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
pawel said:

"you started feeling agitated and go to therapy you will learn your childhood you were proud of sucked. They will always find some reason, they will find anything to justify their service."


   I wouldn't blame "them." "They" are victims too. Rather like a person born into a master class, a slave-owning class, who is not directly responsible for their situation but benefits from a corrupt system and has the responsibility to deal with it, as best they can. 

   Therapists as such are generally well meaning at least to begin with, and for those who are genuinely organically mentally ill they are necessary and a godsend. The needy are often uninsured and the insured are often the pampered whiiners who waste everyones time. Some patients don't need any therapy, especially drug rehabilitation for cannabis, or punishnment for taking legally prescribed drigs. Some need to be in jail. Many therapists are dong inappropriate things they were not trained for. Many are unhappy, even distraught at who and what they treat.

   Most of the therapists I have known on the front line of rural mental health were grossly underpaid, grossly overworked, and grossly overwhelmed. They rarely lasted a year in the job, which exacerbated the situation. And their measures were so illadvised and draconian that despite legal requirements to do so, educators and health care workers often hesitated to call in "social services." 


terry
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 2:39 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 2:39 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
don't listen to chris, we know you like a brother and a son, you are us, bra...

we are not two...

everyone you meet is you too...

you are angry only at yourself, biting your own finger...
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Ni Nurta, modified 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 2:56 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 2:56 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 938 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
I was not talking about blood letting and iron was just example. There is difference between letting blood and eg. having bad diet and having low iron levels.

Besides I already know of at least few elements which chronic deficit made me feel terrible and which I for years fixed with meditative tricks. It really resembled unintentional ascetism. I eat normally but somehow if I do not take larger amount of certain things from time to time without eating else I feel negative effects pile up. To know which effect is from what is not that easy and trying to find it it is possible to take something I definitely do not need at that time! But when you find something that fixes the issues and make this mental connection between issue and solution it is priceless insight. It is the kind of mindfulness people should have. If person feels bad and they eat something which made them better they should investigate further, maybe isolate specific item and check what it might have and test if that maybe is what they need.

It is at least what grown ups would do. It is only domesticated children which rely on experts and therapy to fix their lives for them and have no voice on such matters because they silence themselves assuming someone else knows better... which is of course what is recommended by people who directly benefit from being the assumed experts.
If you think in cheap food production world you will be fed well then you are mistaken. We are nowhere close to figuring out what human organism needs and even further away from providing it in our cheaply made food. Scientist disagree on basic things and it is always "everyone needs this and that" and never take in to account that person A might need much more something than person B. This task is for every person to figure out, what they need more and what they need less and how to tell if they need it. Or not, just then it might happen that instead of feeling good you will feel like sheet.

In fact my default assumption is that most people who felt need to get 4th path just had bad diet. Feedback systems report issues and we are like "sense of self is dukkha". Like complete and utter idiots!!!
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 3:08 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 3:08 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
"I was not talking about blood letting and iron was just example. There is difference between letting blood and eg. having bad diet and having low iron levels."




LOL


I was not talking about iron and bloodletting was just an example...


the guy that sets up next to me at the wednesday market at keauhou has a fragrance that wafted over, and come to find out that he protected himself from corona virus by lining the inside of his mask with essential oils...no need for vaccine when yoiu have essential oils...micronutrients, minerals, elements, boron...


hehehhehe
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 3:15 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 3:15 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
do you really not understand that rust is red and blood is red for the same reason, that is, iron? that blood is a proxy for bodily iron? virtually all the body's iron is in red blood cells...

and "normal" people have too much, only menstruating women and the rare anemic actually need be concerned about iron even on a vegan diet...
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Ni Nurta, modified 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 3:45 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 3:17 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 938 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
I am starting to loose respect for you terry
What kind of responses are that?

edit://
If you disagree with notion that our organism complain about food and believe this is not what is reported as "the issue" that people try to fix with meditation then just say so directly

And what do you not understand in word 'example'?
I can have not enough iron. Maybe I have very bad diet, doesn't mean I know nothing about diet and its effects on mood.
If only people had better diet that me then I would not mention any of it, especially on forum which is not about food to avoid such responses like your, unskillful
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 2:57 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 2:57 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
now if by "bad diet" you mean netflix, march madness and ttump/putin rallies, I would agree...
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 3:18 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 3:18 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
It's like watching a basketball or football game, most of what you actually see are advertisements for bullshit products that are bad for your health or promote vanity.

Our evolution has not caught up with our technology. Back in the day some poor schlep living in a mountain village thought he was pretty smart and good-looking, at least compared to the other half dozen louts in town. The girls compared him to the others and liked what they saw well enough to give him chances.

Nowadays, the schlep, the louts and the girls watch handsome athletes winning prizes and beautiful people enjoying luxuries they ca't afford. The girls want better than the village boys, and the boys feel ugly, stupid, rejected and alone. The girls do not attract the handsome athletes or actors either, leaving them feeling ugly, stupid, rejected and alone.

Everyone is miserable because capitalism has to create needs and desires which are largely unfulfilled in order to get people to consume more and more.

These people don't need therapy, they need a better mental/physical diet. And to simply avoid all advertized products. There is nothing wrong with the food supply, often the poorer the country, the healthier they eat. And there is plenty of good content with which to feed the mental digestion.

It comes down to avoiding conditioning, recognizing that you are being used by oligarchs and billionaires in the most cynical possible way to enrich them at the expense of all future generations.

It is an emergency,

t



THAT SMELL
(lynyrd skynyrd)

​​​​​​​[Verse 1]
Whiskey bottles and brand new cars
Oak tree you're in my way
There's too much coke and too much smoke
Look what's going on inside you

[Chorus]
Ooh, that smell
Can't you smell that smell?
Ooh, that smell
The smell of death surrounds you
Yeah

[Verse 2]
Angel of darkness is upon you
Stuck a needle in your arm (You fool, you)
So take another toke, have a blow for your nose
One more drink, fool, would drown you (Hell yeah)

[Chorus]
Ooh, that smell
Can't you smell that smell?
Ooh, that smell
The smell of death surrounds you

[Verse 3]
Now they call you Prince Charming
Can't speak a word when you're full of 'ludes
Say you'll be alright come tomorrow
But tomorrow might not be here for you (Yeah, you)
[Chorus]
Ooh, that smell
Can't you smell that smell?
Ooh, that smell
The smell of death surrounds you

[Post-Chorus]
Oh, you a fool, you
Go on, stick them needles in your arm
Ooh hoo hoo hoo
I know I been there before
(You fool)
(Fool)

[Verse 4]
One little problem that confronts you
Got a monkey on your back
Just one more fix, Lord, might do the trick
One hell of a price for you to get your kicks (Hell yeah)

[Chorus]
Ooh, that smell
Can't you smell that smell?
Ooh, that smell
The smell of death surrounds you
Ooh, that smell (Whoa)
Can't you smell that smell?
Ooh, that smell
The smell of death surrounds you
[Post-Chorus]
Oh, you a fool, you
Go on, stick those needles in your arm
You're just a fool, just a fool, just a fool
Gimme one more blow
One more blow for my nose, whoa, yeah
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 3:36 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 3:36 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
it's a fine line, bra, beetween laughter and ridicule...you may be over sensitive, or I may overstep...

maybe your contention that most mental problems are due to insufficiencies in dietary nutrients is just silly... certainly we saw nothing of the sort in general community clinical practice...perhaps it is different in your country...

no biggie...

one may fast for weeks and not be irritated, I really did not think your point well taken...

the body is broadly tolerant of variations in diet, though people binging on fake foods can cause themselves harm...

by far the biggest dietary problem in the west is obesity, and in the course of becoming fat most porkers acquire sufficient nutrients to stave off insufficiency diseases... no rickets or scurvy...

you contend scientists know little so presumably you know even less, eh? so taking boron or whatever seems like experimental science at its least sensible...

one can meditate through pain and illness and bad diet anyway, so no worries...
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 4:05 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 4:05 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
there are people who contend that the english are chronically vitamin d deficient due to the lack of sunlight on their benighted isle...

​​​​​​​thus the "white devil" theory of history...
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 4:15 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 4:15 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
it's not the twinkies...


from wikipedia

"Twinkie defense" is a derisive label for an improbable legal defense. It is not a recognized legal defense in jurisprudence, but a catch-all term coined by reporters during their coverage of the trial of defendant Dan White for the murders of San Francisco city Supervisor Harvey Milk and Mayor George Moscone. White's defense was that he suffered diminished capacity as a result of his depression, a symptom of which was a change in diet from healthy food to Twinkies and other sugary foods.Contrary to common belief, White's attorneys did not argue that the Twinkies were the cause of White's actions, but that their consumption was symptomatic of his underlying depression. The product itself was only mentioned in passing during the trial. White was convicted of voluntary manslaughter rather than first-degree murder, and served five years in prison.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 4:24 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/20/22 4:24 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2459 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Boys will always be boys! BTW, don't forget to stock on toilet paper lads!!! Think about the one using the loo after you and not having any paper left!!! Cmon' ya bra's emoticon compassion etc ... 

Shit ... I better start my military training, to get in good shape. Look at the world gone wild! Can one kill another being with loving-kindness? 
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/21/22 4:31 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/21/22 4:31 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
from sermon 55, meister eckhart

A righteous man has no need of God. What I have, I am not in need of. He serves for nothing, he cares for nothing: he has God, and so he serves for nothing. By so much as God is higher than man, so He is readier to give than man is to receive. Not by fasting and outward works can we gauge our progress in the good life: but a sure sign of growth is a waxing love for the eternal and a waning interest in temporal things. If a man had a hundred marks and gave them all for God's sake to found a cloister, that would be a fine deed. And yet I say, it would be greater and better to despise and naught himself for God's sake. In all a man does he should turn his will Godward and, keeping God alone in mind forge ahead without qualms about its being the right thing or whether he is making a mistake. If a painter had to plan every brush-stroke with the first, he would paint nothing. And if, going to some place, we had first to settle how to put the front foot down, we should get nowhere. So, follow the first step and continue: you will get to the right place, and all is well.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 8 Months ago at 3/23/22 5:08 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/23/22 5:08 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 6847 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Regardless of whether you focus on meditation or therapy, something that might be useful is to get to know your own needs and boundaries intimately and learn to communicate them calmly before you need to get angry. Learn to take care of yourself well and remove yourself from situations that trigger you, or take a break to breathe and feel the space around your thoughts and emotions. Then you will have more resources to cultivate kindness for others. 
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/24/22 1:53 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/24/22 1:53 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
aloha linda,

   Needs and boundaries.

   I like to say that all a person really needs is a handful of grains per day, but really, I don't think a person needs even that.

   There are no boundaries. Form is emptiness. Not two.

   Two very interesting discussions would be 'what needs are fundamental to the human person?' and 'what are the boundaries of the human soul?'

   None and none.

   Can you communicate these needs and boundaries of which you speak?

   I feel like I cross these invisible and perhaps not clearly communicated boundaries frequently. Sorry.

​​​​​​​   Perhaps I haven't listened well.

terry
Macky Ben-Jonah, modified 8 Months ago at 3/25/22 4:43 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/25/22 4:43 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 90 Join Date: 2/17/22 Recent Posts
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö
Regardless of whether you focus on meditation or therapy, something that might be useful is to get to know your own needs and boundaries intimately and learn to communicate them calmly before you need to get angry. Learn to take care of yourself well and remove yourself from situations that trigger you, or take a break to breathe and feel the space around your thoughts and emotions. Then you will have more resources to cultivate kindness for others. 


That sounds like really good advice. Can you please give me some more detail on how to do that, please
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 8 Months ago at 3/27/22 4:05 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/27/22 4:05 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 6847 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Listen to your body! It usually has lots of tells. You need to recognize your own body's tells as they might be specific to you. In general, tensions are warning signs, though. If you notice tensions, give yourself a timeout as you are probably prone to reactiveness. 

Take notes on what drains you or makes you cranky or irritable, and find ways to restore yourself. 

As for finding the space around your thoughts and emotions, that is probably easier to start with at times when you are relaxed and at peace. You can sort of zoom out and take in all the space around you and thus take a break from the narrow storytelling that is going on in your head one way or another. Maybe look at the skye or listen to the wind. Whatever makes you connect to something more spacious. The more you do this, the easier it gets to tune into it even at challenging times. This is a longterm work, not a quick fix, but it really works. 

Your needs and boundaries aren't carved in stone. They may very well change over time, especially if you progress on the path and find that your wellbeing is less dependent on conditions. However, as human beings we are better off if we don't pretend to be something that we are not. Things tend to work better if we base our strategies on what is rather than on what "should" be. So if you for instance notice that after a day's work you just want to yell to everyone to shut the f*ck up, then you probably need some quiet time after work, and it's better to communicate that in advance before you explode. You need to plan for it while you still can. You might also need to find ways to get some quiet time during the day now and then, before the need accumulates into red alert. Telling yourself that you should be more patient probably doesn't help. Taking care of yourself does. Then you don't explode with rage. 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 8 Months ago at 3/27/22 4:22 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/27/22 4:22 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 6847 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Hi there, terry!

I can't tell you what your needs and boundaries are. You need to find that out for yourself. 

Personally I can't eat grains, as they make me ill. What makes you ill? What makes you cranky? What makes you tell people that they are heartless and all the other stuff that you sometimes say? If you investigate it, you might find that there's a trigger there that has something to tell you about your own needs as they appear, even though your ideal is to not even need a few grains. Maybe tuning into the space around your thoughts and emotions instead of reacting would be helpful for you as well? And then communicate what you need to say when you are no longer reactive? None of us is perfect. 

As for my boundaries, I forgive easily. Meta-communication is much appreciated. Strike-hard-and-then-evade approaches leave me confused. I prefer to know where I stand with a person. 

Take care!
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Daniel - san, modified 8 Months ago at 3/27/22 5:04 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/27/22 5:04 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 309 Join Date: 9/9/14 Recent Posts
Wow, really excellent advice Linda - I second everything, our body, mind and the entire world around are trying to awaken us.  Stress and pain are like the guard rails, or warning signs as Linda says. My root teacher SN Goenka says, awareness and equanimity are the two wings of the bird that will bring you to freedom. As the historical Buddha said, attachment is the problem.

After 15 years of contemplation, 'spiritual' study, and a lot of meditation practice that has changed very much over the years, I can now see how the Buddha Dharma is different, special and sublime.  Also so simple, it's right in front of our faces.

Joseph Campbell's advice was to follow your bliss, The more I do that without regard to what other people think about me, the better things get. Also weed and hot tubs, I recommend those  ;)
Macky Ben-Jonah, modified 8 Months ago at 3/27/22 11:30 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/27/22 11:30 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 90 Join Date: 2/17/22 Recent Posts
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö
Listen to your body! It usually has lots of tells. You need to recognize your own body's tells as they might be specific to you. In general, tensions are warning signs, though. If you notice tensions, give yourself a timeout as you are probably prone to reactiveness. 

Take notes on what drains you or makes you cranky or irritable, and find ways to restore yourself. 

As for finding the space around your thoughts and emotions, that is probably easier to start with at times when you are relaxed and at peace. You can sort of zoom out and take in all the space around you and thus take a break from the narrow storytelling that is going on in your head one way or another. Maybe look at the skye or listen to the wind. Whatever makes you connect to something more spacious. The more you do this, the easier it gets to tune into it even at challenging times. This is a longterm work, not a quick fix, but it really works. 

Your needs and boundaries aren't carved in stone. They may very well change over time, especially if you progress on the path and find that your wellbeing is less dependent on conditions. However, as human beings we are better off if we don't pretend to be something that we are not. Things tend to work better if we base our strategies on what is rather than on what "should" be. So if you for instance notice that after a day's work you just want to yell to everyone to shut the f*ck up, then you probably need some quiet time after work, and it's better to communicate that in advance before you explode. You need to plan for it while you still can. You might also need to find ways to get some quiet time during the day now and then, before the need accumulates into red alert. Telling yourself that you should be more patient probably doesn't help. Taking care of yourself does. Then you don't explode with rage. 


But what about if you are already cranky and upset. What strategies can you use to help calm yourself calm down. A lot of times, I get this aha moment that i'm being a dickhead because of my anger, but it kinda seems I can't reaaly do anything about it
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 8 Months ago at 3/27/22 12:21 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/27/22 12:21 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 6847 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Remove yourself from the situation if possible. Get some rest and maybe something to eat or some fresh air. Take notes on earlier signs if you can, so that you can be better prepared next time. Investigate the chain of reactions leading up to the anger and see how suffering is created. It's usually related to your sense of self. See if you can find that self anywhere. Ask yourself who is angry. 

Reciting some calming mantra might help too, especially if you do it in a soft voice.

Relaxation exercises, if that feels possible. If you change your body language you usually change your emotions too.

Do noting and turn the emotions into objects.

Find some feeling in your body that is pleasant or at least neutral and tune into that. Zoom in on it.

Or zoom into the anger-related tensions and notice first how they feel in your body (this strips away the story around them) and then how impermanent and unstable they actually are (but remove yourself from the situation first, in case it intensifies before it dissolves!) 

If you can't do it on your own, get some help! 

And hey, it's awesome that you are aware of your issues and want to do something about them!
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 8 Months ago at 3/27/22 2:39 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/27/22 2:39 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2459 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
You can do Noting Vipassana for a few months and let the mind see itself and how it creates this asshole and a jerk. Therapy is one thing and seeing sensate experiences unfold very fast and building THIS reality, is another. Train the mind to see THIS unfold and create all sorts of effects. You can do both.

There are ways to go about this so starting a journal here on DhO is likely the best way to get tips and tricks from members who did this for a while. If you are interested that is and if not ... that too is ok emoticon 
Also reading Ingram's book MCTB 2 is a good thing to get you started with some important pointers.

Best wishes! 
Macky Ben-Jonah, modified 8 Months ago at 3/28/22 4:53 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/28/22 4:53 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 90 Join Date: 2/17/22 Recent Posts
Papa Che Dusko
You can do Noting Vipassana for a few months and let the mind see itself and how it creates this asshole and a jerk. Therapy is one thing and seeing sensate experiences unfold very fast and building THIS reality, is another. Train the mind to see THIS unfold and create all sorts of effects. You can do both.

There are ways to go about this so starting a journal here on DhO is likely the best way to get tips and tricks from members who did this for a while. If you are interested that is and if not ... that too is ok emoticon 
Also reading Ingram's book MCTB 2 is a good thing to get you started with some important pointers.

Best wishes! 

I do have a journal here
​​​​​​​
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 8 Months ago at 3/28/22 11:59 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/28/22 11:59 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2459 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Ok. Best wishes! 
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/28/22 1:31 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/28/22 1:31 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
hi linda,

   I'm not concerned about my needs and boundaries. When they come up I retire them immediately.

   I was hoping for better definitions of these mythical creatures but I guess not.

   Grains make you ill. Meat would make me sick if I ate it, it's been over fifty years. I don't consider meat food at all. Many other so-called foods make me vomit or run at both ends, if that is what you mean by "sick." Ice cream, for example. My diet is very narrowly focused on grains, fruits and vegetables, and too much bread or fruit at a sitting or in a day makes me ill (I bake all my bread and grow a lot of fruit - in my yard are bananas, lychee, mountain apples, avocados, macadamia nuts, star fruit, mulberries, mangos and more. I'm quite sensitive and can go long periods without eating. Since you asked.

   Getting cranky makes me crankier. This litle vicious cycle self terminates pretty quickly, like squalls. "High winds do not last the whole day."

   What makes me confront people with their heartlessness on occasion? Much of what I do here I liken to putting out fires. It's bad ideas that I confront, not people. There aren't any people, only us, just this, the one pearl. Inside there is One Person; outside there is One Person. I love This Person and she loves me, we are One Person.

   You accuse me of reacting. Of evading. Forgive me, but that's you, dear. You and I never communicate.

   I'm only trying to help you express what we really mean.

   Tune in, eh. Yeah, I should try that. And not be so reactive. And not hit and run. And try and calm down before I open my mouth. Sure. 

   Thanks for your help with me being such an asshole and a jerk. Oh, that's reactive isn't it. I should just stop posting altogether until I become normal. But that would be evading. 

   An impossible position.

   It's those invisible boundaries I keep reacting to, I think. Neither the boundaries nor the reactions you speak of are apparent to me. 

   You, however, seem to be very reactive, as though you had been critcized, and not humbly and gently invited to dialog about your murky assertions.

smile,
terry
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/28/22 1:39 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/28/22 1:39 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
forgot oranges, tangerines and limes, get multiple crops a year and in bulk they are the biggest producers, drink a lot of fresh orange juice mixed with tangerine and maybe grapefruit...everybody with fruit shares it around in season so we eat from our yards all the time...
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/28/22 2:02 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/28/22 2:02 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
(scratching my head on the evasive part...me, evasive? when I'm not here, trust me, I'm doing something else)


there's another meaning for "striking out" I hadn't thought of, striking like a snake...(forked tongue waving, beady eyes, scaly face, sinuously slithering and sliding)...

reminds me of old robbie burns... 

O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!


t


On Seeing One on a Lady's Bonnet at Church
(robert burns)

Ha! whare ye gaun' ye crowlin ferlie?
Your impudence protects you sairly;
I canna say but ye strunt rarely
Owre gauze and lace,
Tho faith! I fear ye dine but sparely
On sic a place.

Ye ugly, creepin, blastit wonner,
Detested, shunn'd by saunt an sinner,
How daur ye set your fit upon her---
Sae fine a lady!
Gae somewhere else and seek your dinner
On some poor body.

Swith! in some beggar's hauffet squattle;
There ye may creep, and sprawl, and sprattle;
Wi' ither kindred, jumping cattle;
In shoals and nations;
Whare horn nor bane ne'er daur unsettle
Your thick plantations.

Now haud you there! ye're out o' sight,
Below the fatt'rils, snug an tight,
Na, faith ye yet! ye'll no be right,
Till ye've got on it---
The vera tapmost, tow'rin height
O' Miss's bonnet.

My sooth! right bauld ye set your nose out,
As plump an grey as onie grozet:
O for some rank, mercurial rozet,
Or fell, red smeddum,
I'd gie you sic a hearty dose o't,
Wad dress your droddum!

I wad na been surpris'd to spy
You on an auld wife's flainen toy
Or aiblins some bit duddie boy,
On's wyliecoat;
But Miss's fine Lunardi! fye!
How daur ye do't?

O Jeany, dinna toss your head,
An set your beauties a' abread!
Ye little ken what cursed speed
The blastie's makin!
Thae winks an finger-ends, I dread,
Are notice takin!

O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us
An foolish notion:
What airs in dress an gait wad lea'es us,
An ev'n devotion!
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 8 Months ago at 3/28/22 3:56 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/28/22 3:56 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 6847 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Dear terry,

It seems like we at least have extensive food sensitivities in common. 

As for the rest... I don't know what murky assertions you are referring to. Was that a joke?

My boundaries aren't particularly mysterious. I just don't like to spend time and energy throwing accusations back and forth. I did try to ask you why you were so angry with me before, twice, but you didn't reply. Both those times you had written post after post after post after post with accusations, and you seemed angrier and angrier. It didn't really look like love to me. I doubt that you could put out any fires with such posts. 

Honestly, I don't think this thread is the right place for this. You asked about my needs and boundaries and I replied. Let's leave it at that. This is a thread where Macky asks for help. It's not about us. 
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/29/22 3:28 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/29/22 3:28 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
aloha linda,


yeah, i've not been forgiven...

some threads were lost to me when I returned to find, "thread locked" and didn't bother with them further...

I've never accused you of anything, or been angry with you...

nothing I say ever looks like love to you, thats the problem...


I don't understand about needs and boundaries at a fundamental level...there was nothing personal in my wanting to discuss these things, at all...but our discussions immediately seem to get too personal, despite my intentions...

I agree we only talk past each other and I will try to avoid rattling your chains in the future (but I've said that before)...

I do love you, as well as I can...

with some people I can only step wrong and explanations don't help...

I'm sorry...


as some point when you really feel it we can say the hawaiian prayer of reconciliation together... words I have lovingly punched into silver numerous times (bangles)...I'd offer you a bangle with these words if you were here, even if I don't know what I have done wrong...


ho'oponopono
1. I'm sorry
2. please forgive me
3. thank you
4. I love you
Kat Hart, modified 8 Months ago at 3/29/22 4:38 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/29/22 4:38 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Post: 1 Join Date: 3/29/22 Recent Posts
Such a treat to read your quote by cherished Alan Watts :-)
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 8 Months ago at 3/29/22 5:26 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/29/22 5:17 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 6847 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
I'm not angry with you, terry, so there is no need to forgive. Really. I just really thought you were angry with me (raging even) or resented or despised me for some reason, because of your wordings, and I was afraid of escalating things. You seemed (from my end) to take whatever I said as a personal attack when it wasn't at all, and then you would strike "back" and just never stop (again just my interpretation). I thought I'd better stay out of your way and give you some space. You often said that I was taking things personally when I really wasn't and had no idea why you would think that, so yeah, that seems to be a mutual misunderstanding. I felt like I was always hurting you for reasons I couldn't understand, as you seemed to read things into my wordings that weren't there, and it worried me. So you are not alone in feeling the way you feel. I feel the same things from my end. 

Communication for me is about trying to see things from each other's perspective. Verbal combat even for fun isn't my thing. I find it very stressful and draining. I also get sad when people make jokes at the expense of others even if they don't mean anything by it and even if they don't believe in separation and so forth. When it's in writing it is impossible to tell whether it is mockery or bullying or paternalizing or just that kind of jargon. Adding smiles in text, or smileys, doesn't make a difference, as there are different kinds of smiles. Your constant play with ambiguities although elegant is not very autism-friendly (I'm not blaming you, just stating a fact. And correspondingly, my autism is apparently not very terry-friendly, even though I'd like for it to be). It is scary as hell, quite frankly. I'm sorry that it makes you feel judged or not good enough or whatever it is that you are feeling. You are fine just the way you are. I can't ask you to change your way of expressing yourself, and I wouldn't want to, so I don't know how to move forward from here. Maybe we could try to meta-communicate more when needed instead of assuming? But if so, could I please ask that we do it with "I-language" rather than "you-language"? That is, focusing on what we need from the communication and how we interpret things and so forth rather than accusing the other person of always doing this or that, or of never doing this or that, or of having certain characteristics. For me that would really help. Is it too much to ask? Could we also please both try to assume the best from each other rather than the opposite? I would really appreciate that. 

I don't want you to stay out of my way. I just need a different kind of communication, to check in on the framing. I'm not sure if it is possible. I fear that if I tell you how I interpret your wordings sometimes you will feel judged, and I wouldn't want that. I think you should be you and do your thing. 

I'm very sorry that our interactions have made you feel like you aren't forgiven. There is nothing to forgive. We just seem to have very different needs in communication. I appreciate that you stepped out of the jargon for a moment to show that you don't hate me. Thankyou! I care about you too. 

If you want to talk more about this, feel free to do so in my latest log. Don't be a stranger. I won't bite. 

---

To Macky: I'm sorry for derailing your thread somewhat. The PM function doesn't work on this forum since the last upgrade (I think they are working on it) so sometimes personal communication pops up in threads. Thankyou for the opportunity! I hope it wasn't too unconvenient. 
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/31/22 2:00 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/31/22 2:00 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
aloha linda,

   Thanks for your thoughtful reply, and for trying. Eventually kindness and good will may enable us to actually communicate.

   I really feel like I am autism friendly, having lived with my son until he was thirty and he's pretty obviously symptomatic. So I like and understand autistic people.

  I do think our difficulty is related to your inabiity to interpret my words as genuinely motivated by love. The remarks about "jargon" once again make no sense to me, my language is as jargon free as any anywhere. Spot on about playing with ambiguities, you do get me. I'm trying to kindle nondual sensibilities, bring it all together as rolling thunder.

   Interpreting my feelings as anger or resentment or hurt are generally off the mark. Humor, kindness and an occasional confucaian rectitude are more like it. Soft on the repentant and anguished lovers and hard on the crowing cocks.

   Your self image and my self image don't recognize each other.

   Much of our communication problems are classic venus and mars stuff, where you take my "tone" as the communication and then can't be reasoned with.

   This particular exchange is absolutely typical. You told macky he should clearly communicate his needs and boundaries. From my point of view, you have maintained this a number of times and never been able to communicate those boundaries or needs in any direct way at all not one bit. Despite countless asks. You are still not doing it. I have to suspect you can't do it, and that the advice in itself can't be followed. This is my observation that your idea does not make actual sense - not a criticism, attack, angry exposition or anything else. I am emphatic, hyperbolic, and so often take counter intuitive positions that I tend to over dramatize them and invite argument, for the sake of dialog. Not trying to upset your applecart. Just being a leo.

   You assume I have similar "obvious" needs and boundaries. I honestly don't think so. I have wants, not desires or needs, and I have no compunction about squashing those wants quite ruthlessly. I "want" to have sex with every attractive person I meet, but I neither desire this nor need it.

   You mentioned forgiveness but then immediately brought up all your old resentments, typically venus. I love you!

   Just forget all that shit and we can move on.

   You can have the last word, if you like.

   Smileys don't help, I agree with that too. You have to understand when a person is smiling inside and really really has your best interests in mind. Even if they don't know you and only mean well.

terry


from memory...


THE LILY
(william blake)

The modest rose puts forth a thorn
The humble sheep a threat'ning horn
But the lily white
Does in love delight
Nor thorn nor horn stain her beauty bright.

   
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/31/22 2:13 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/31/22 2:13 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
this is better done in public, the pressure of kindly regard and presumed objectivity from the sangha may move your mind where your heart would not open a crack to me in private...we wouldn't even try...
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 3/31/22 2:39 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 3/31/22 2:39 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
whatis metacommunication? not familiar with your jargon....
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 4/1/22 1:10 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 4/1/22 1:10 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
Please Call Me by My True Names 
– Thich Nhat Hanh


Don’t say that I will depart tomorrow —
even today I am still arriving.

Look deeply: every second I am arriving
to be a bud on a Spring branch,
to be a tiny bird, with still-fragile wings,
learning to sing in my new nest,
to be a caterpillar in the heart of a flower,
to be a jewel hiding itself in a stone.

I still arrive, in order to laugh and to cry,
to fear and to hope.

The rhythm of my heart is the birth and death
of all that is alive.

I am the mayfly metamorphosing
on the surface of the river.
And I am the bird
that swoops down to swallow the mayfly.

I am the frog swimming happily
in the clear water of a pond.
And I am the grass-snake
that silently feeds itself on the frog.

I am the child in Uganda, all skin and bones,
my legs as thin as bamboo sticks.
And I am the arms merchant,
selling deadly weapons to Uganda.

I am the twelve-year-old girl,
refugee on a small boat,
who throws herself into the ocean
after being raped by a sea pirate.
And I am the pirate,
my heart not yet capable
of seeing and loving.

I am a member of the politburo,
with plenty of power in my hands.
And I am the man who has to pay
his “debt of blood” to my people
dying slowly in a forced-labor camp.

My joy is like Spring, so warm
it makes flowers bloom all over the Earth.
My pain is like a river of tears,
so vast it fills the four oceans.

Please call me by my true names,
so I can hear all my cries and my laughter at once,
so I can see that my joy and pain are one.

Please call me by my true names,
so I can wake up,
and so the door of my heart
can be left open,
the door of compassion.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 8 Months ago at 4/2/22 8:59 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 4/2/22 8:59 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 6847 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Metacommunication is communication about communication. 

My log is public, not private, so we can talk there or by all means start a new thread for it. Let us not derail this thread more. That is a boundary that I communicated very clearly. 
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Ni Nurta, modified 8 Months ago at 4/2/22 10:01 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 4/2/22 10:01 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 938 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
There is definitely some unresolved sexual tension between you guys.
I mean tension, normal ordinary tension people have between themselves.

I mean some things do not exist so if you do them nothing have happened and besides it is no one's business.
Aren't we all supposed to make love and not war?
It is most basic Anagami insight...

...or even better, I will now just shut up before I get myself in to trouble and discover I have to resolve tensions with someone XD
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 8 Months ago at 4/2/22 10:12 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 4/2/22 10:12 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 6847 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Ni Nurta, the boundary of not derailing this thread further pertains to you as well.

Now, if anyone has any helpful advice for Macky, that would be most welcome. 

​​​​​​​
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 8 Months ago at 4/2/22 10:29 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 4/2/22 10:29 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 6847 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Macky, I hope you will find the support you need. I'm so sorry for all the derailing of this thread. 

If you have a bad personality like you say, it doesn't show in this thread. You have been nothing but kind and respectful to me. 
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terry, modified 8 Months ago at 4/3/22 7:43 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 4/3/22 7:43 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
haiku

a half grown dog
comes away from a porcupine
muzzle full of quills
Macky Ben-Jonah, modified 8 Months ago at 4/3/22 9:12 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 4/3/22 9:09 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 90 Join Date: 2/17/22 Recent Posts
Don't worry about the derailing of the thread. I have been practicing something simple which seems to help me when I am angry. When I feel that I am getting triggered, I withdraw myself and practice metta for five minutes before re-entering the situation. I first wish metta on myself, and then on the person I am angry with. This seems to really help me with my anger.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 8 Months ago at 4/3/22 9:52 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 4/3/22 9:52 AM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 6847 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Awesome! I'm glad. 
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terry, modified 7 Months ago at 4/19/22 1:26 PM
Created 7 Months ago at 4/19/22 1:26 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
the second third and fourth patriarchs of zen all found enlightenment after burning with self doubt resonating with this very question, it is at the heart of zen...
​​​​​​​

Huike said to Bodhidharma, "My mind is anxious. Please pacify it."
Bodhidharma replied, "Bring me your mind, and I will pacify it."
Huike said, "Although I've sought it, I cannot find it."
"There," Bodhidharma replied, "I have pacified your mind."



we all want to be buddhas, some of us just don't realize it...


this is how to use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk...



from


THE
 UNBORN
  The Life and Teachings of Zen Master Bankei1622-1693
trans norman waddell


You certainly must cherish your illusions dearly for you to change the Buddha-mind into them just so you can be deluded. If you only knew the great value of the Buddha-mind, there's no way you could ever be deluded again, not even if you wanted to be. Fix this clearly in your head: When you are not deluded, you are a Buddha, and that means you are enlightened. There is no other way for you to become a Buddha. So draw close and listen carefully and be sure that you understand what I say.

You create your outbursts of temper when the organs of your six senses [vision, hearing, smell, taste, touch, and faculty of mind] are stimulated by some external condition and incite you to oppose other people because you desire to assert your own preciously held ideas. When you have no attachment to self, there are no illusions. Have that perfectly clear.

All your parents gave you when you were born was a Buddha-mind. Nothing else. What have you done with it? From the time you were a tiny baby, you've watched and listened to people losing their tempers around you. You've been schooled in this, until you too have become habituated to irascibility. So now you indulge in frequent fits of anger. But it's foolish to think that's inherent. Right now, if you realize you've been mistaken and don't allow your temper to arise anymore, you'll have no temper to worry about. Instead of trying to correct it, don't produce it in the first place. That's the quickest way, don't you agree? Trying to do something about it after it occurs is very troublesome and futile besides. Don't get angry to begin with, then there's no need to cure anything. There's nothing left to cure.  
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terry, modified 7 Months ago at 4/19/22 1:46 PM
Created 7 Months ago at 4/19/22 1:46 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
'zen master' is a contradiction of terms, or rather is an internal contradiction, and no zen master would refer to their self as such...

bodhidharma was famously irascible, as were many zen masters...

​​​​​​​(roar!)

zen master = zen needer

the resolution of contradictions is zen...
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Chris M, modified 7 Months ago at 4/19/22 1:56 PM
Created 7 Months ago at 4/19/22 1:56 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 4595 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Waddaya know! I thought living with contradictions was zen  emoticon
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terry, modified 7 Months ago at 4/21/22 5:00 PM
Created 7 Months ago at 4/21/22 5:00 PM

RE: How do I use meditation to stop acting like an asshole and a jerk.

Posts: 2196 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
not a tautology...


enlightened and unenlightened live amid contradiction alike...

the one catalyzes and the other analyzes...


I was just thinking about chuang lao taoism, how chuang tzu and lao tzu had contradictory or opposing takes on emptiness...

the poles of emptiness... magnetic poles, dynamic, protection from cosmic rays...

chuang tzu characterizes the tao as a pivot
lao tzu characterizes the way as a hub

one grabs a pivot, latches on, holds fast and moves with it, rotates and thereby is powered by the universe...the motion of this pivot is the way we follow

one inserts into a hub, the main driver the axle inserts into the central hole, and all the radiating spokes insert into the spoke holes, rotating and thereby powering the universe...the empty spaces of the hub are what we use


if there weren't contradictions, we wouldn't need to resolve them, and life is resolving contradictions

but

zen is when the contradictions suddenly resolve

one pearl

(.)





“Caminante, no hay camino.
Se hace el camino por andar.
—ANTONIO MACHADO

Traveler, there is no path.
The path is made by walking.”

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