Did I go through the dark night/stream entry yet?

JUstin Bieber, modified 9 Years ago.

Did I go through the dark night/stream entry yet?

Posts: 2 Join Date: 11/3/11 Recent Posts
I honestly don't know where to start. I am LOST in this terminology(dark night, passing and arising?) and figured it best to just tell my experience and for you guys to tell me where I am..

I meditated for over a year(mindfulness/vipassana). I used some of the meditation tools on audiodharma.org.

Anyways, I did soto zen meditations before I started the mindfulness one.(the real thing)

So I believe I passed the phase some months ago. I meditated to the point where I saw that I am just a wave in the ocean and am the ocean itself:

You are the ocean. For a brief moment in time, you rise up as a separate wave, clearly distinct and unique in that moment as an individual wave with its own complete identity, and yet never separate from the ocean. After a moment, you become the ocean again, indistinct from any other part of the ocean. The wave has its own identity, and yet has no separate identity at all from the ocean. And so it is with you.

I went through a phase where I tried to tell everyone about this and tried to "save the world". I went through Alan Watts stuff on youtube about 5 months ago and he made complete sense to me(I would listen to his stuff for hours during my free time). I also read Nisargadatta Maharaj's I am That:

http://www.amazon.com/Am-That-Talks-Nisargadatta-Maharaj/dp/0893860220/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320352801&sr=8-1

Which I understand. However, I don't think I saw any light or whatever(maybe I just forgot).

Right now I have accepted that in order to go through life I have to find my own passions and purposes and strive to it every second(which I am doing). I learned the big experience I witnessed was not the experience I thought it was. In order to really attain what I saw I must do it through finding my own purpose and passions. I have almost gone back into normal life(dating, hanging out with others).

This means that I have passed the dark night right?
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Tommy M, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Did I go through the dark night/stream entry yet?

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
I honestly don't know where to start. I am LOST in this terminology(dark night, passing and arising?) and figured it best to just tell my experience and for you guys to tell me where I am.

Don't worry about the terminology, don't try to self-diagnose based on inaccurate understanding of the territory, and don't beat yourself up if you find that you're not as far ahead as you think you might be. Honestly, it's not worth it. You will come to understand exactly what is going on and what all of the language points to if you apply the techniques and practice well.

If you want a really good overview of the territory mapped, along with some incredibly accurate and helpful phenomenological descriptions then check out Daniel Ingrams' own site, Interactive Buddha, and download the "Nanas, Jhanas & Paths Handout".

You are the ocean. For a brief moment in time, you rise up as a separate wave, clearly distinct and unique in that moment as an individual wave with its own complete identity, and yet never separate from the ocean. After a moment, you become the ocean again, indistinct from any other part of the ocean. The wave has its own identity, and yet has no separate identity at all from the ocean. And so it is with you.

This is related to Knowledge of the Arising & Passing Away, the fourth insight knowledge.

If you've experienced how all phenomena, including the patterns of sensation which make up "you", can be seen to arise and pass away, how at a fundamental level there is no distinction between "me" and "not me", and how there is no "self" to be found in any of these waves, what does this teach you about reality?

I went through a phase where I tried to tell everyone about this and tried to "save the world".

Aye, this is fairly typical A&P stuff. It's all too easy to be a pain in the arse to all and sundry 'cause you think you've figured the thing out. Don't worry about it, just stick to the practice.

Which I understand. However, I don't think I saw any light or whatever(maybe I just forgot).

A&P doesn't need to be all lights and wonderous visions, what matters is the insight into how phenomena arise and pass away so don't go looking for textbook descriptions and expect your experience to line up 100%.

Right now I have accepted that in order to go through life I have to find my own passions and purposes and strive to it every second(which I am doing). I learned the big experience I witnessed was not the experience I thought it was. In order to really attain what I saw I must do it through finding my own purpose and passions. I have almost gone back into normal life(dating, hanging out with others).

Could be the stage which follows Dark Night, it's known as Knowledge of Equanimity. It might not though, it's difficult to offer a diagnosis without more phenomenological details of what actually happens during your meditations.

This means that I have passed the dark night right?

Not necessarily. Possibly, but it's impossible to say with any certainty right now.

I'd be confident in saying that haven't gotten stream-entry yet, but it's well within reach if you get the momentum going and practice well. Would you mind giving some descriptions of what goes on during your sits? Don't speculate on what you think is happening, don't tie yourself up in mental knots trying to self-diagnose, just describe in simple terms what sort of sensations you notice during meditation.

Welcome on board!
JUstin Bieber, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Did I go through the dark night/stream entry yet?

Posts: 2 Join Date: 11/3/11 Recent Posts
Thanks for the time you put in. I will answer your questions from what comes to me naturally. If I did not answer your question, please elaborate.

This is related to Knowledge of the Arising & Passing Away, the fourth insight knowledge.

If you've experienced how all phenomena, including the patterns of sensation which make up "you", can be seen to arise and pass away, how at a fundamental level there is no distinction between "me" and "not me", and how there is no "self" to be found in any of these waves, what does this teach you about reality?



This teaches me that reality is not something you can control, people are not places where you can gain approval, and the sense of security is false. All of these basic wants prevent you from being the real you. There is nothing to get from anyone or anything because you are already complete. There is nowhere to go because you are already there. There is nothing to get, all that matters is doing the task and creating.

Appreciation

We must appreciate the people around us and the things around us. We do this not because we like or we don't but because its the only way. Its the only way to clear the fog and see what is really here between two people. When two people are together, we must appreciate and accept the thoughts emotions and feelings that come from both individuals. Only then can we clear the fog and be who we really are. One must not create homes in the loved ones because to do so means to limit the love outside. The homes we create are self-limiting. They are fake. Reality means to live openly and honestly. The words we speak and the actions we make should be in the direction of love, creation, and honest to what reality is. Honesty means to be with reality, to flow with nature. Resistance will come, its only natural. However, the resistance itself is a wave in which we must embrace because the resistance itself is a part of who we are.

Integrity/Purpose

I lied earlier. There is somewhere to go. You must have this inner calling. This sense of purpose and direction. Your inner masculine self must find this purpose and use your body as a channel to express it to reality. We are not going here to get something though, only so we can flow with nature. When you follow your purpose and flow with nature you are experiencing life: what you are is the expression and the journey to the expression. This explosion of expression is all that matters. Life is not about getting things, its about experiencing. It is only when you experience your life that you actually are you. If you do not experience life, you are then attached to something. Attachment will only lead to suffering. Understand what you are attached to is not real and impermanent. The only real thing is the love around us and your purpose. One must literally fuck every moment because that is the only way to live and be you. You are not a thing, but an experience. You flow with nature unattached. You surrender to nature and you embrace nature. Nature and reality itself is just love.


Not necessarily. Possibly, but it's impossible to say with any certainty right now.

I'd be confident in saying that haven't gotten stream-entry yet, but it's well within reach if you get the momentum going and practice well. Would you mind giving some descriptions of what goes on during your sits? Don't speculate on what you think is happening, don't tie yourself up in mental knots trying to self-diagnose, just describe in simple terms what sort of sensations you notice during meditation.


I used to sit for 20-30 minutes and do mindfulness meditation. I observed the thoughts, emotions, and feelings as they arose. I pictured myself as a small buddha sometimes(as awareness) and saw everything go by like comets. I don't interact with these thoughts and emotions, but I just am aware of them. That awareness is enough. Soon after I come into the thoughts about who am I? After I see the form of this thought I realize its just another thing I have to show my awareness to. Words are simply signposts to who you really are.

Sometimes I meditate to this level and just rest as love, breathe in love, and just be. Sometimes I meditate the other characteristics of reality(male masculine energy my purpose, love, infiniti). I do not just stay in the numbness of bliss, I am still being aware of everything that arises or is.

The past 5 months though I stopped meditating. I realized meditation is not like guitar. You don't just do it for 20 minutes and go about your day. I meditate now throughout the day. When I am walking, or talking to people, or just doing an activity. I stop and be mindful for a bit and continue in the present.

What sensations I get from meditation? Well lots of calmness. I have no more fears that come up after i start meditating for a few minutes. Pure bliss. I just see my thoughts come and go. One arises and goes and then another one comes and it goes. As one goes away, another one arises. After a while they stop coming and I just rest as awareness it self.

Sometimes thoughts of sadness and disgust come. On how reality is: people suffering, corruption, etc. I also realize how easy it is all to solve if they just were a bit more introspective. It gives me sadness. However, I realize that it is okay because it has always been like that. I have the ability to change that. Just like that, all of it goes away and the next thought arises. It goes away because I did not interact with that thought, I only put my awareness on it. I noticed it and it goes away. I think a long time ago, I just stayed in that zone on how bad society is. Now though, I just put awareness to it and it goes away. Sure I am sad about it and disgusted about it but its OK! Why? i don't know, its just okay. Things come and go, that is life. And by attaching yourself to these sad facts makes you away from who you really are. WHat you really are is all you can ever be. The side effects of being who you are is you changing the world for the better. You are not chosing to be what you are so you can help society and experience life, you are being the real you because that is the only thing one can ever do. There is nothing to do more than be you. It is not about what is more logical or what is helpful to society. It is not a choice you make or an option you weigh, its simply the only truth there is.

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