visions of 'sacred geometry'

John Parameter, modified 2 Months ago at 9/18/22 6:34 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/18/22 6:34 PM

visions of 'sacred geometry'

Posts: 7 Join Date: 6/21/22 Recent Posts
Hey guys, so I'm fairly certain I am in the dark night at the moment and have been for while (had some AP events a few months ago). Recently I think I have started to briefly break into equinimity before cycling back to reobservation. In the periods of equinimity I have noticed that in the hypnogogic state between wakefulness and sleep, I am able to produce visions of bodies twisting and intertwinning in perfect symmetry and visions of sacred geometry in which four parts of a greater whole are in such perfect symmetry that even though all parts are still visible, it feels like they have become invisible because of some quality that goes beyond regular symmetry. My best guess is these are the visions Daniel Inghram talks about in the equinimity section of mctb but I'd be happy if one of you pros corrects me. If I am correct and these are the visions that can come with the sudden boost in concentration that happens to some people reaching upon reaching equinimity, has anyone got any reccomendations on how I might develop these abilities further? even just sign posting to resources would be helpful or a chapter in mctb. 

Cheers guys : )
John Parameter, modified 2 Months ago at 9/18/22 6:41 PM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/18/22 6:40 PM

RE: visions of 'sacred geometry'

Posts: 7 Join Date: 6/21/22 Recent Posts
Sorry, forgot to say that they dont start in this perfect symmetry state, I am somehow able to mindiulate (typo of 'manipulate with my mind' which i will keep lol) them into this state.
shargrol, modified 2 Months ago at 9/19/22 5:37 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/19/22 5:37 AM

RE: visions of 'sacred geometry'

Posts: 1877 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
The sacred geometry visions are a good sign, it means you are really settling into practice.

While it could be EQ, it could also be the phase of the dark night nanas where the knowledge is mature and EQ-like. In other words, this can happen in other stages besides EQ. The emotional tone/theme can be dark night-ish (A&P amazing, fear, misery, disgust, etc.) but because concentration is so good and the mind is so loose (especially at night in the hypnogogic zone) these sacred images arise. How did the images make you feel emotionally?

The trick is not to fall into the content trap, but rather keep doing vipassina: what thoughts come up when you see these visions?, what emotions do you feel?, what sensations do you experiences?, and what do you see. If you just focus on what you see, then you kinda get seduced by the cool content and stop investigating your mind. So not only look at the image, but also get curious about the mind in which the images appear. Notice what thoughts come up (are you thinking about how good of a meditator you are, are you thinking about mapping where you are, are you thinking about how to keep this experience or go deeper or make it go away?). Notice what emotions come up (are you proud, afraid, worried you are doing it wrong, happy, sad, indifferent... etc.)

And ultimately don't worry if these go away. They aren't essential for making progress. It's more important to stay with what is actually appearing in this moment, rather than to chase a particular kind of experience. A lot of times the image appears before tough stages like Reobservation, where complex imagely is less common and the whole experience becomes somewhat buzzy --- but this isn't a failure, this is actually making progress into the next stage. 

Often "cool experiences" come along when we need them, when our mind needs a little boost. But things don't stay that way. We have to follow where our mind takes us and investigate what actually arises. Progress doesn't come from forcing particular experiences to happen, but rather by "going with" what arises and learning from it.

By the way, the visions that Daniel talks about in EQ are much more like profound daydreams, almost like the whole world reveals a deeper psychological/spiritual truth because you have less personal identity and more mental clarity. So almost like being momentarily being born in a parallel universe where some aspect of practice is very clear. One way to think of it is these EQ visions are like having a dharma insight, but not just intellectually, but with the entirety of the waking/dreaming/creative mind. Once again, this isn't an experience to chase after. If it happens, great, but it's not essential for making progress. 

​​​​​​​Hope this is helpful in some way.

 
shargrol, modified 2 Months ago at 9/19/22 6:15 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/19/22 5:51 AM

RE: visions of 'sacred geometry'

Posts: 1877 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
These came up spontaneously for me, especially when practicing at night before sleep, so in a slightly hypnogogic state. 

Daniel talks about sacred geometry and going through the dark night with high concentration here: 10. Re-observation – MCTB.org

"In a similar vein, and as mentioned before, those few who are crossing this territory with world-class concentration abilities and using a very rarefied object, such as a complex visualization on sacred geometry, may, if they are very good at it, pass through this stage with little or no difficulty. It can be fascinating and subtly rapturous, as this is the peak of the third vipassana jhana. Strong practitioners fusing insight and concentration practices may notice that the proportion of the visualized field that is organized into clear images gets broader and broader. The patterns may become more complex. The phase problems get more and more bizarre. The visual field may take on more spherical dimensions, with curving images beginning to encircle (or “ensphere”) you. The images may appear to have manifold symmetries and repetitions, and these generated images and sounds may come around to encompass basically the whole field of experience."

And the mention of sacred geometry and vision in EQ is discussed here: 11. Equanimity – MCTB.org

"The world in Equanimity is a very fexible place, and all sorts of odd things can happen, particularly for those with strong concentration abilities, though some will suddenly jump up to a whole other stratum of concentration in this stage, attaining to levels of concentration and their commensurate weird effects they had no idea they could ever do or see: 3D visions of fully-formed, intelligent beings, 3D shapes or other odd things, such as sacred geometry or vast landscapes and basically anything else you can imagine. It is also a time when some people will have other spontaneous powers and experiences. I detail those and my advice for relating to them later in Part Six, but they are truly not important, just more stuff that can happen. Certainly, not everyone experiences these more unusual and often interesting types of experi ences. If you do have them, the most important thing is how you relate to and interpret them, and the more you can see them just as sensate experiences and not buy into their story or a fxed way of interpreting them, the better things are/ likely to go. If you fnd yourself buying into their content and story, serious trouble can result, so just keeping a gentle rein on any impulse towards losing touch with ordinary points of view is helpful. "

"The world in Equanimity is a very flexible place, and all sorts of odd things can happen, particularly for those with strong concentration abilities, though some will suddenly jump up to a whole other stratum of concentration in this stage, attaining to levels of concentration and their commensurate weird effects they had no idea they could ever do or see: 3D visions of fully-formed, intelligent beings, 3D shapes or other odd things, such as sacred geometry or vast landscapes and basically anything else you can imagine. It is also a time when some people will have other spontaneous powers and experiences."

"At this stage, there can arise a tendency to see the world and those in it in very strange and unusual ways. Tremendous variation is possible here. One example from my experience, intended to convey a general concept: I remember looking around me at all the people on retreat and even at all the chickens, birds, and puppies in the monastery, and seeing them all simultaneously as little mush demons (little squat greenish creatures with big, sad mouths and eyes) but also as fully awakened Buddhas.  They were both. In fact, we were both. We were deluded and small, yet interconnected and luminous.I could see in some very strange way exactly how each of them, including me, was caught in the world of form and confusion, trying to find happiness and doing so from such a small and frightened place, and yet all of this was vast Buddha nature, all of this was the natural, luminous, and compassionate divine dance. Such strange perspectives that try to resolve paradoxical insights do not always occur, but this is included here in case they occur for you and perhaps to prompt knowing laughter from those with their own unique stories from this part of the path. "
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Months ago at 9/19/22 6:42 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/19/22 6:42 AM

RE: visions of 'sacred geometry'

Posts: 6854 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Thanks for bringing up the topic! I have had reoccurring visions of sacred geometry myself but have never had any control of it, except what you mentioned: recognizing the "embryo" of the imagery and somehow tuning into the space that allows it to develop more fully. If you ever find a way to tune into this in a more reliable way, please share with me! I would love to find the pathways to it. But yeah, don't despair if it goes away. It really doesn't seem to be a reliable thing. Just enjoy it while it lasts and take the opportunity to really explore the mind as it happens! 

I'm puzzled that it's supposedly something that happens to people with very strong concentration skills. I have attention deficit and I wasn't even trying to specifically develop my concentration in the periods when this happened. I was just drawn in. I had no say, really. What kind of practice are you doing and does concentration come easily to you? 
John Parameter, modified 2 Months ago at 9/19/22 7:02 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/19/22 7:02 AM

RE: visions of 'sacred geometry'

Posts: 7 Join Date: 6/21/22 Recent Posts
Thanks Shargrol, thats all very helpful. Your advice on how to relate to them is invaluable. I hadnt really considered them being part of the dark night because they felt like positive experiences but on reading Daniel's passage on dark night visions they fit that description well. To steal his words they did feel fascinating and subtly rapturous. 

Thanks again, john
John Parameter, modified 2 Months ago at 9/19/22 7:12 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/19/22 7:12 AM

RE: visions of 'sacred geometry'

Posts: 7 Join Date: 6/21/22 Recent Posts
Hey Linda, To be honest I have done very little formal practice. The first time they happened I probably had under 15hrs meditation total under my belt though I had already crossed the AP. They arose spontaneously for me to and it was only after they had formed that I was able to control them. I honestly dont know if I have good concentration, I dont really have a frame of reference but I am fairly experienced in lucid dreaming and producing other visual phenomena in the hypnogogic state so that may explain why they arose. Who knows lol. 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 2 Months ago at 9/19/22 9:15 AM
Created 2 Months ago at 9/19/22 9:15 AM

RE: visions of 'sacred geometry'

Posts: 6854 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Interesting! I think producing visuals in hypnagogia qualifies as concentration practice. Daniel Ingram did that as a kid (or maybe teenager). I enjoy playing with that too, although I'm not that skilled at it. Thanks for reminding me!