RE: My "Claim to Attainment".

Thor Jackson, modified 4 Months ago at 11/16/22 6:26 AM
Created 5 Months ago at 10/31/22 4:09 PM

My "Claim to Attainment".

Posts: 2 Join Date: 10/31/22 Recent Posts
"Claiming attainment" seems egotistical at best, contrary to the essence of self transcendence, however I will still utilise it to express my experience, as such. 
I have spent 45 of my 52 years of living searching for the truth about life. That is not entirely true, I found the truth at age 35, but I still have doubts about it. Yes, I was concerned about truth at the age of seven, when I saw so many adults not speaking it. I have memories from age 3 by the way.
I am not someone who reveals personal things about myself to my friends, let alone strangers. So you can be sure that this "testament" is not made frivolously.
None of you will belive what I say. That I am certain of. I have visited this website before, and most people here are sycophants and liars. I still doubt Daniels claim of Arahant, let alone Stream Enterer. I have no doubt that he has learnt an extreme amount of the technical jargon about the subject and has condensed it into brilliantly consise manual, that many people can benifit from, but as far as his personal "attainment" goes, his demeanor does not provide evidence of his altered status.
Whom do I base this quality of standard on? I base it on Sri Ramana Maharshi, who in my own deep understanding, is the only being who has reached the fullfillment of real transendence, apart from the buddha. I assume there are others who I cannot name or recall.
Here is the part you will not belive. There are two very important aspects about the life of Ramana that convinced me that he is genuine. The reason I belive he is genuine is because I experienced something similar before I even read about him experiencing the same thing.
I am not suggesting I am at the same level as Ramana, far from it.
What I am saying is, I have experienced kevala nirvikalpa samadi and it happend before I read about the definition of it. I only knew what it was after I read about Ramana going though it.
There were two, extraordinary examples that convinced me that he was genuine and that I had experienced something similar to his earlier experiences.
The first was that his head, shook from side to side while he experienced powerfull spiritual phenomena.

"When under the instructions of the Sarvadhikari, Kunjuswami was serving Bhagavan as an attendant, he found Bhagavan’s body and head were shaking and faltering and so, when there was no one else there but close disciples, he asked Bhagavan, “Bhagavan, although only in middle age, strangely enough, has a shaking of the head and of the body necessitating the aid of a stick for walking. What could be the reason for it?” Bhagavan replied, it seems, with a smile, “What is there so strange in it? If a big elephant is tied down in a small hut, what else will happen to that hut except troubles of all sorts? This is the same.”

I myself have experienced a similar episode of a force shaking side to side, inside my head, which in retrospect could be viewed by an outside person as my head moving side to side. This episode was induced by extreme one pointed concentration for a prolonged period of time.

The second example was a very obscure reference to something that happened to him while in the state of kevala nirvikalpa samadi. He mentioned that sometimes after it happened, he found himself in a different location than where he entered it. In other words, he entered kevala nirvikalpa samadi while he was in one place and when he came out of it, he was in another place.

This was the nail in coffin that made me belive that he was the genuine article. The reason being, when the "internal head shaking" happened to me, I was forced to find a place of isolation becase I knew something was about to happen to me. I knew something extraordinary was about to happen. I had an overwhelming feeling of anticipation.

I decided to go to the mens toilets, to seek privacy because i knew something unavoidable was about to happen to me. However, on the way I considered sitting down on a radiator located in the main communal area. The wierd thing is, after I regained conciousness, after I sat down in a toilet cubical, I reentered awareness and found myself not in the toilet cubical, but sitting on the radiator I previously thought about sitting at. 

I did not make this realisation until a few years later. I have questioned this memory of events ever since.  There are four reasonable possibilities. 

1. I imagined I went to the toilet, but actually sat down on the radiator instead. I distinctly remember closing the door to the toilet and sitting down, and passing out.
2. I passed out in the toilet and somehow moved unconsciouisly to the radiator.
3. I passed out and someone else moved me to the radiator.
4. I dematerialized in the toilet and rematerialized on the radiatior.

I am not suggesting that I am a new Ramana Maharshi. I am saying that certain spiritual characteristics that he went through are similar with my own experiences,
characteristics that I experienced, before I knew he had them.
Rousseau Matt, modified 2 Months ago at 1/8/23 4:54 PM
Created 5 Months ago at 10/31/22 5:27 PM

RE: My "Claim to Attainment".

Posts: 131 Join Date: 5/1/22 Recent Posts
I shake all the time when I meditate. I still barely have access concentration. Many people shake and jitter when they try to sit still. That's nothing
Rousseau Matt, modified 2 Months ago at 1/8/23 4:54 PM
Created 5 Months ago at 10/31/22 5:31 PM

RE: My "Claim to Attainment".

Posts: 131 Join Date: 5/1/22 Recent Posts
This sounds like a fainting episode. It happened to me getting up to fast. I fainted than became semi conscious  md moved a little. Slights amnesia.  Just get past it
Adi Vader, modified 4 Months ago at 11/16/22 6:26 AM
Created 5 Months ago at 10/31/22 9:22 PM

RE: My "Claim to Attainment".

Posts: 204 Join Date: 6/29/20 Recent Posts
Hello Sir

I respond to you in a spirit of friendship and not to try and pull down or attack you in any way.

Being a public forum where dissent is permitted, where a moderator does not come down on a writer's head just because they express doubts about Dr Ingram's attainments tells me that this is actually not a forum run by and for sycophants. It tells me that this is a forum run by and for yogis who wish to gather together to discuss the theory and practice of awakening. Yes its created by someone who wrote a book for a niche audience and within that audience its a very popular book. Thus this forum naturally tends to attract people who have found benefit in the book, so yes it will naturally have a very high percentage of people who agree with and look to the author with respect in their eyes. And rightfully so! But we will let Dr. Ingram and his attainments be! In a social sense he is a man who has dedicated a large part of his life towards helping other people through his writings and his actions, and whether or not he is 'attained' is a different matter entirely, he is a fantastic human being who deserves respect - mine as well as yours.

As human beings leading a human life we are a collection of agendas that believes that these agendas are created maintained and 'owned' by an entity within. Some of us no longer take the truth value of the perception of an entity within seriously. But the agendas remain emoticon emoticon. And as long as there are agendas - one collection of agendas will find itself at odds with another collection of agendas. This is inevitable! This is a part and parcel of our shared humanity. So though now 'I' find myself at odds with 'you' - I dont hold any hostility in my heart. What follows below is not a takedown but a response to your post - with just a tinge of disdain emoticon ... a disdain directed only towards the ideas within your post.

As I read your  article I found my head automatically shaking ... a lot ... though it was in disagreement ...and at the risk of setting myself up as an adversary, in grave disapproval of what I was reading, and not in the throes of a rapture born out of nirvikalpa samadhi emoticon

Below are some bullet pointed thoughts that kind of more or less address your writing:

1. It is impossible to judge somebody else attainments, unless one is themselves attained and then has a detailed conversation where they compare the 'signs' of awakening with the one they are trying to judge. This can only happen in a spirit of friendship and trust with both parties being mutually respectful. Someone judging The Buddha to be attained, and Adi Sankara not to be attained, or the other way round, based only on their writing and/or observable public behaviour is fooling themselves.

2. Adi Sankara went kingdom by kingdom debating Buddhist scholars fielded by kings under the condition that if he were to win the debate, the king and his courtiers would convert to Sanatana Dharma. Adi Sankara had had it with all the Buddhism floating around the Indian sub continent and decided to put a stop to it. This gangster like mover and shaker behaviour may be viewed by people as .. well .. gangster like. The Blessed One was also a gangster in his own right. In the beginning of his career he straight up invaded a camp of dreadlock ascetics and the hagiographies talk about him using his shamanic powers to magic the fuck out of the leader of the dreadlocks. I personally don't believe in magic or shamanism. This is a man in his mid to late thirties who had a product to sell and knew that his product was superior to what was currently being peddled and went on a marketing campaign. A gangster, a chakravarti, a king of kings .... unstoppable. There is a story in the vinaya where a rich and powerful patron saw a bunch of Arhats splash fighting in the river and complained to The Blessed One. The complaint was probably along the lines of .... is 'this' the end product? .... is 'this' what I paying for? The Blessed One immediately issued an edict stating that Arhats can no longer splash fight in rivers - this edict exists till date in the vinaya. Gangster who will not let a couple of fun loving Arhats mess up his agenda! Plain and simple! emoticon 

3. Outwardly visible personality and actions have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with awakening, realization, gnosis. Outwardly visible personality and the judgment of somebody's actions is a commentary on our own conditioning, our own biases. And we all have biases emoticon. We all want 'him' to be our Arhat! My Arhat! The only Arhat who is actually an Arhat is the one that fits my biases of ideal behaviour! This is a common flaw. For some people it doesnt exist, for others it gets corrected as they understand through direct experience and personal attainment of what awakening is all about. Until then in my opinion such biases within should be deconditioned or at the barest minimum not stoked. Does that mean that an 'awakened' individual can behave howsoever they may wish? fuck no! Any one who gets overly uppity and disrupts principles of politeness, social graces ... should be immediately put in their place emoticon emoticon. No more Arhats splash fighting in the river!!! Hahahahahahahahaha

4. Ramana Maharishi, in my opinion, at a very early age got a stroke and couldnt move and probably lost many of his cognitive functions. Therefore he had to be taken care of by someone. It happened to be temple priests who were extremely religious and put this simple medical problem into the box of spiritual attainment. Slowly people gathered around the boy and started worshipping him, as Ramana 'woke up' .... he found himself in the middle of a LARP that he did not intentionally create Given this happened from that point onwards Ramana behaved impeccably well, in my opinion. Full props to him! But the dude had a personality made of steel! He fought a long drawn out courtroom battle over the ownership of the ashram property. Any one who fights a civil case in India knows that it takes decades to get justice and the grind basically turns mighty titans into depressed empty shells of their former selves. Not only did Ramana  fight a battle, he did it with elan - so definitely a gangster!! Link:,of%20the%20ashram%20around%201928.

Finally to conclude, regarding your meditatative observations - you hallucinated, the mind created false memories, it wiped out actual ones obfuscating what actually happened. Its no big deal, take it with a pinch of salt and move on with spiritual practice would be my strong suggestion.
Chris M, modified 4 Months ago at 11/16/22 6:26 AM
Created 5 Months ago at 11/1/22 7:10 AM

RE: My "Claim to Attainment".

Posts: 4669 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
The anti-Buddhism: lift one's self up by tearing others down. Irony abounds!