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'Energetic Stuff'
Answer
12/2/11 8:59 AM
I think I'm becoming attuned to 3 distinct, well-documented-ish sensations pretty regularly during practice/waking life, and I wanted to get other people's opinions, anecdotes, and advice.

The first two experiences are obvious candidates for A+P territory.


1 - frisson/chills. A pleasurable shiver/shudder not caused by cold. Is associated with dopamine release.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12135590
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_chill

The article is about music, but i think this is a rather common feeling.

2 - ASMR - pleasurable tingles emanating from head/spine, associated with seratonin, induce
There is little to no actual scientific evidence about this that i can find, but there's some interesting speculation on the net:
http://anti-valentine.hubpages.com/hub/ASMR
forum thread - http://www.asmr-research.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=21
reddit.com/r/asmr - a place with a little info, but mostly people just post things they found that caused the ASMR seratonin release.
the wikipedia page was taken down because there are no scientific studies

when this happens, there is no voluntary surrendering of volitional attention - it is a forced abdication into pure experience for a few moments.
I know thats AF language, but I've never done AF practices, so take it with a grain of salt.




3 - Hypnic jerk/hypnogagia
this is the only one that is definitely practice related for me. For the last few several sits i've done, While i do NOT feel tired before or during a sit, i enter into hypnogagia and have hypnic jerks for the majority of the sit. I have trouble maintaining focus/noting, but I feel totally alert and conscious of what is going on, unlike the hypnogagia when falling asleep. The difficulty remembering the content of the hypnagogia remains, though, as well as the feeling, 'This content doesnt make any rational sense.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnic_jerk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia



Is this last state beneficial in any way for practice? Is it a normal thing to go through at some point on the path? Am i just more tired than usual but do not realize it?

RE: 'Energetic Stuff'
Answer
12/2/11 12:29 PM as a reply to m m a.
m m a:

2 - ASMR - pleasurable tingles emanating from head/spine, associated with seratonin,


What is this experience? I don't see a clear description of it.

From the quick description you gave, I think I recognize it as something that comes up in practice, and recognize that it is different from "chill-type tingles", and recognize that it has some association with PCE-like experience (but is probably far from a full PCE).

Some people who practice Kenneth Folk's "direct mode" describe a subtle tingle or thrill when they first begin experiencing emotions as body states. I think this may be the same phenomenon. It is in the direction of the PCE, associated with the sudden partial loss of the imaginary "inner" world.

Maybe people who experience ASMR would be interested in learning about our practices...but, it would be good to hear more details about what this phenomenon is, as you experience it.

RE: 'Energetic Stuff'
Answer
12/2/11 12:34 PM as a reply to End in Sight.
http://www.asmr-research.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=21:
Torsten Wiedemann: I am pretty sure that the catecholamines [dopamine and norepinephrine] interrupt the ASMR, which would be expected if ASMR is a serotonergic phenomenon. Stress, anxiety, sexual arousal and highly motivated states [ie catecholamine states] all seem to be bad for ASMR. Certainly norepinephrine releasing drugs tend to be detrimental to the tingles. however curiously, a more localised goosebump like tingle can result from various amphetamines. I don't see a lot of similarity between them though.


More likely, craving-related states.

While dopamine or norepinephrine may be tied into these states in all kinds of ways, the connection would not exist in the same way for someone who is far along the path.

RE: 'Energetic Stuff'
Answer
12/2/11 12:58 PM as a reply to End in Sight.
Is this ASMR?

Old post of mine:
When I tune into the senses and the present sufficiently such the senses become extremely clear and it reminds me of the PCE but isn't there yet, the most salient symptom at the beginning is not "interestingness," but "pseudo-rapture". (...)

Pseudo-rapture is like regular rapture (tingling, rushes, hairs on the skin raise up) but the sense that it is a feeling is very thin. (...) [CLARIFICATION: Because the "inner world" has disappeared to some extent.]

Today, for instance, at one point a person on crutches walked by me, and the clicking sound their crutches made on the ground was so delightful and rich and wonderful that my whole body was filled with immense pseudo-rapture and shivers down the spine for a few moments,


http://www.asmr-research.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=3:

"ASMR feels like a simultaneous stimulation of every nerve in the 'path', starting from the top of my head and descending through my body down my spine and out to my limbs in rushing waves. It feels intensely pleasurable, and I often feel slight euphoria and contentment during it."

It's similar to other adrenalin and excitement rushes, but different in quality. When I have an adrenalin rush, it's almost painful - 'spiky' is what pops in my head - but with ASMR it's much more even-toned. More warm and relaxing - not the stomach-twisting surge of excitement or fear. However, it does overcome me, especially when particularly intense, and it can almost completely incapacitate me at times. If I'm going to illicit type A, I usually do so in a private space, or at least where I don't expect to be interacted with during the sensation, as that would break my thought pattern and certainly decrease the level of enjoyment I got from it.


My current understanding of this phenomenon is different from what I described in my old post, and probably differs in many ways from what is discussed on that forum, but it does seem like the same phenomenon.

I can confirm that it is reproducible by will alone.

I think those who are interested in this phenomenon could benefit from hanging out here. emoticon

RE: 'Energetic Stuff'
Answer
4/9/13 10:27 AM as a reply to End in Sight.
As a beginning meditator, this ASMR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_sensory_meridian_response

is very similar if not the same as what I am going into when I meditate. This is also the reason I started meditating, I remember going into this state as a child when I got a haircut, went to the doctor or had some other experience that involved close attention.

I just assumed this is the first Jhana state but perhaps my knowledge and interpretation is naive.

Curt Welling

RE: 'Energetic Stuff'
Answer
4/9/13 1:55 PM as a reply to m m a.
m m a:
Is this last state beneficial in any way for practice? Is it a normal thing to go through at some point on the path? Am i just more tired than usual but do not realize it?


It's normal, but not beneficial. Why do you have trouble maintaining focus/noting, if you are totally alert and conscious? Are you bored?

RE: 'Energetic Stuff'
Answer
8/25/13 8:14 PM as a reply to m m a.
Yeah, I get this as well... some of the info here is good... http://forums.asmrstudio.com/

I find Omega 3 fish Oils makes the sensations even better! Tbh...

RE: 'Energetic Stuff'
Answer
8/25/13 10:56 PM as a reply to m m a.
m m a:
2 - ASMR - pleasurable tingles emanating from head/spine, associated with seratonin, induce
There is little to no actual scientific evidence about this that i can find, but there's some interesting speculation on the net:
http://anti-valentine.hubpages.com/hub/ASMR
forum thread - http://www.asmr-research.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=21
reddit.com/r/asmr - a place with a little info, but mostly people just post things they found that caused the ASMR seratonin release.
the wikipedia page was taken down because there are no scientific studies

when this happens, there is no voluntary surrendering of volitional attention - it is a forced abdication into pure experience for a few moments.
I know thats AF language, but I've never done AF practices, so take it with a grain of salt.


Yes I knew people were going to post about this sooner or later. I used to be into ASMR videos in the past. They are fun if you can get regular dopamine hits but the brain gets bored just like everything else.

I still get good tingles from these:

Space Travel Agent

Cranial Nerve Exam