Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

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Jon Messner, modified 10 Months ago at 6/11/23 12:29 PM
Created 10 Months ago at 6/11/23 12:29 PM

Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

Posts: 19 Join Date: 9/20/20 Recent Posts
Hello!
I am looking for a medtation teacher/temple (is that the right word?) in NJ? I am in central NJ at the shore (Monmouth Country).
Thank you!
Martin, modified 10 Months ago at 6/14/23 5:43 PM
Created 10 Months ago at 6/14/23 5:43 PM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

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It's great that you are looking to learn. Meditation teachers and temples can be valuable resources. There are many kinds of both. To get a useful answer, it would be helpful to provide more information about what kind of meditation you practice or would like to practice, as well as why you want to do that (for example, to help with anxiety, to continue developing after a breakthrough, or to explore new mental states). 
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Jon Messner, modified 10 Months ago at 6/15/23 8:54 AM
Created 10 Months ago at 6/14/23 7:03 PM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

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Hey Martin!
Thanks so much for replying!
I've been having "experiences" and I think it might be helpful to talk to someone who can offer insight and guidance.
I've been sitting on the cushion (without any guidance) for more than a decade and I think it would be helpful to find a teacher?...
Martin, modified 10 Months ago at 6/15/23 10:20 AM
Created 10 Months ago at 6/15/23 10:20 AM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

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That makes perfect sense. I found talking to teachers about experiences on and off the cushion incredibly helpful. 

It can be nice to meet teachers face-to-face but Zoom is almost as good, which might mean that you can consider teachers anywhere in the world. Here are several lists of teachers with a pragmatic dharma orientation. 

https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/view_message/21564331#_com_liferay_message_boards_web_portlet_MBPortlet_message_21564331

You could also visit a Temple, or Wat, or Do, etc. but you might want think of that as a separate project. People teaching in a religious tradition will usually try to understand (and explain) your situation mainly in the context of that tradition. For example, I heard a talk from a Zen priest in his 70s, who had spent many decades in the business. He was talking about kensho (the initial awakening stage in Rinzai Zen) and said that people often came to him who were not practicing in the Rinzai Zen, who had experienced things that they thought might be Kensho but all of these experiences were makyo (delusions of no importance). I had thought that, over the course of a lifetime, the priest might have encountered at least one person who had a significant experience outside of the formal practice of Zen, but I was missing the point. The point of a system is to systemize. This will be true, to some extent, of any teacher who uses a system, but teachers who are fulfilling a role in a religious organization will usually be more committed to a more tightly defined system. An unaffiliated teacher is at least theoretically capable of approaching your practice and experiences with your practice and experiences as the primary context. 

That said, by all means visit a Temple, or Wat, or Do, etc. I do and I get a lot out of it. But I have also worked with teachers who are not affiliated with any religion or sanga. Having both provides a broad and stable base. 

If you feel comfortable sharing a bit more about your practice people here may be able to suggest specific teachers who are well matched to your style and interests. There are very great differences between individual teachers and general practice types and, while I would also suggest interviewing a few teachers before settling on one to work with, people here might be able to help you make that a shorter process. 
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Jon Messner, modified 10 Months ago at 6/16/23 11:58 AM
Created 10 Months ago at 6/16/23 6:32 AM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

Posts: 19 Join Date: 9/20/20 Recent Posts
Martin,
Sure! Thanks for letting me feel as though I can open up about my practice…!
​​​​​​​I practice breath meditation (counting exhales to 10). Since 2020, I average 20 to 30 hours/week on the cushion (I am self employed AND single). I have never been on retreat.
My concentration has improved over the years. On an average day, it takes me about 2 hours to "settle in” and notice thoughts come and go (while counting the breath).
​​​​​​​I have noticed about half a dozen “states” (?) I go through while sitting. Sometimes I am able to count with great focus on the count, but my mind wanders quite a bit. Other times, I can’t count worth a damn, but I have great awareness. Sometimes the sit is really uncomfortable and other times serene. All these experiences overlap with one another, and if my practice is consistent enough, I can often predict the “state(s)” I will go through before sitting.
With that said, I've been doing 10 hours on Sundays, which funny enough, often SUCK (haha) with very little awareness. It is during the week that things seem to settle down.
​​​​​​​I suffer now more than I ever have (which if you were to ask me 1-year, 2-years, etc. ago, I would say is impossible), but then the suffering is gone. It ebbs and flows quite drastically... If I had to put a metaphor to it, I feel as though someone else is messing with my "emotional dials”? I've also had some childhood trauma come to the surface (that I've had to deal with.)
I would very much like to improve my concentration, but I have quite a few attachments (my business, a college coaching job, etc.) that may be roadblocks. I keep telling myself - “What’s the point in sitting if you remove yourself from socializing and enriching other people’s lives?”
Martin, modified 10 Months ago at 6/16/23 11:30 AM
Created 10 Months ago at 6/16/23 11:30 AM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

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Wow, that is a fantastic amount of sitting! I really admire your discipline. It's quite exceptional. 

Keeping in mind that I am not a teacher (not even close!) and so what I say is just the musings of a random dharma bum, I would think that when you have that kind of capacity, it is definitely worth getting a teacher. If, for example, an amateur athlete were putting in that many hours, it would make sense for them to hire a personal coach. Same deal here. You are no weekend warrior (although your 10 hours on Sundays is definitely warrior level :-)). 

My teacher, Nick (you can find him in that thread), is very good at teaching concentration, as he was a teacher trainer under Culadasa, the author of The Mind Illuminated, which is a book that many people have used to achieve high-level concentration. Have you read it? I actually have not read the whole thing, but I read the beginning and it seems to be very well structured. Another route to consider, if concentration is your bag, is the TWIM method, which also comes with teachers (although they are a little more religious than approaches like TMI). I first learned concentration from Leigh Brasington's book, which is also a good resource. Have you read that one?

Also, while it is pretty common (almost standard) for people to suffer more after they take up meditation, it just makes sense to find the path out as soon as possible, which is another argument for getting a teacher or at least joining a group. Have you looked at https://www.nyimc.org/event/new-jersey-sangha ? The New York Insight Mediation Center are good people, as are basically all the people in the Insight Meditation Society. We often diss this group here as being a mushroom factory (keeping people in the dark and feeding them bullshit) and while it's not untrue that they focus on a pretty low-level of insight in many of their teachings, they can be a great support for dedicated practitioners too, particularly in terms of day-to-day dharma. 

I don't really have any experience with working with trauma but hopefully people here who do might be able to recommend some teachers who are skilled in that area. 

You say, "I would very much like to improve my concentration, but I have quite a few attachments (my business, a college coaching job, etc.) that may be roadblocks."

I wouldn't worry about the roadblocks. I learned concentration while running a business. In fact, it was almost comical as the business got super busy right after I first gained access to the jhanas, so I was working 70 hours a week, and I had a cushion next to my desk so I could squeeze in sits during the day. Although some people go the lifestyle modification route, it is not necessary to have a whole life free of the hindrances to get concentrated. You just need to learn how to set them aside when you sit on the cushion. 

You also say, 'I keep telling myself - “What’s the point in sitting if you remove yourself from socializing and enriching other people’s lives?”' I agree. In fact, even the monks in the Buddha's day had regular contact with ordinary people. It was baked into the system that the Buddha taught. Monks had to be part of the community by visiting people for food alms and talking to them about the dharma. Complete seclusion was not the preferred way even for these super-hardcore practitioners. 
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Bahiya Baby, modified 10 Months ago at 6/17/23 6:34 AM
Created 10 Months ago at 6/17/23 6:34 AM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

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Just want to double up on recommending TWIM. 

I highly rate their approach to practice and their focus on the suttas. (Though they can be a bit monastic in how they view certain topics)
Lots of online retreats available. 

Website - Good book on their method

I recommend these guys so often I should be getting a kickback lol

And are you familiar with Daniel Ingram's work? Mastering the core teachings of the buddha? He's sort of the reason a lot of us are here emoticon
It's available here

That book talks a lot about different "states" a long the way and is a great resource for buddhist lingo. 
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Noah D, modified 10 Months ago at 6/17/23 11:33 PM
Created 10 Months ago at 6/17/23 11:33 PM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

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I recommend Kurt Spellmeyer if you are willing to train in the rinzai zen style - 

​​​​​​​https://www.coldmountainzen.org
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Jon Messner, modified 10 Months ago at 6/18/23 11:16 AM
Created 10 Months ago at 6/18/23 11:16 AM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

Posts: 19 Join Date: 9/20/20 Recent Posts
Wow! Thank you everyone for your input and guidance! I will look into Cold Mountain!
MARTIN, I really appreciate you commenting on every part of my message, and it warms my heart that you can empathize with me (specifically about roadblocks). I have not read The Mind Illuminated, but I will make sure to check it out. I will also look into IMS and eMailing Nick.
I have no interest in talking to a medtiation teacher about my trauma (isn't that something for a therapist instead?), but I do want to talk about this suffering I am feeling. Even more importantly (in my mind), I want to work on (improve!?) my concentration.
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Jon Messner, modified 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 7:51 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 7:51 AM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

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I decided to up the sitting the last 2 weeks to try to build longer term 'momentum' and 'stability'. I averaged 5.5 hours/day over 11 days. Needless to say, it was pretty intense... Towards the end of the 2 weeks I was having trouble sleeping (only a few hours each night) and feelings of intense dread. I am on 2 day 'break' (1 hour yesterday and only 15 minutes today) and I feel better. I'm looking forward to getting back into my practice tomorrow, but I am a bit concerned about sleep and dark feelings, and would appreciate any feedback! Thank you!
User 08, modified 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 2:24 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 1:41 PM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

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Martin
I have also worked with teachers who are not affiliated with any religion or sanga
Wow, would you be up for sharing which teachers those were, or how you found them? That sounds awesome.
User 08, modified 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 2:38 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 2:01 PM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

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Finding a teacher does sound like a good idea, but in the meantime (if it takes a while to find one), you could resort to books. For instance, the fact that you've done counting to ten for 20 hours a week for 3 years seems quite strict and limited. I mean, if it works for you, I can't argue with that, but it sounds like from the rest of your description that it's not working for you (since you're suffering now more than ever). I recommend taking a look back over the meditation instructions in MCTB or checking out Thanissaro Bhikkhu's recordings and books (https://www.dhammatalks.org/) for some additional ideas that might be helpful.

Re: removing yourself from socializing, honestly, you don't have to meditate. If there are other things you'd rather do, you can do them. However, it sounds like you're suffering, so relieving that suffering is the point. Also, the more calm your mind is, the better you your interaction with others will be. However, 20 hours a week is admittedly a lot. I don't think there's anything wrong with re-balancing such that you don't feel like you're missing out on human interaction.
User 08, modified 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 2:14 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 2:13 PM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

Posts: 57 Join Date: 7/31/23 Recent Posts
Jon Messner
I decided to up the sitting the last 2 weeks to try to build longer term 'momentum' and 'stability'. I averaged 5.5 hours/day over 11 days. Needless to say, it was pretty intense... Towards the end of the 2 weeks I was having trouble sleeping (only a few hours each night) and feelings of intense dread. I am on 2 day 'break' (1 hour yesterday and only 15 minutes today) and I feel better. I'm looking forward to getting back into my practice tomorrow, but I am a bit concerned about sleep and dark feelings, and would appreciate any feedback! Thank you!
Personally, if I were you, I would stop meditating until I got more guidance. Thanissaro Bhikkhu says that the path is totally positive. Positive in the beginning, positive in the middle, positive in the end. However, Daniel talks about dark feelings in the stage of insight he calls the dark night, so YMMV. https://www.mctb.org/mctb2/table-of-contents/part-iv-insight/30-the-progress-of-insight/5-dissolution-entrance-to-the-dark-night/
Martin, modified 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 3:55 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 3:55 PM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

Posts: 803 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Wow! That is a lot of sitting. I've never done that much off-retreat. My gut feeling is that you are right to back off if you are having feelings of dread and lack of sleep. If you are interested in input, possibly from some of the teachers here, it might be an idea to post a separate post with a title like "Lack of sleep and dread."

Did you have any luck (or any obstacles) with the search for a teacher?

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Martin, modified 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 3:57 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 3:57 PM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

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Sure. I'll write a post on it later.
User 08, modified 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 4:06 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 4:06 PM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

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Martin
Sure. I'll write a post on it later.
Thanks! emoticon
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Jon Messner, modified 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 8:35 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 8:35 PM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

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Martin,
I am still looking!
I will create a new post, too!
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Jon Messner, modified 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 8:36 PM
Created 8 Months ago at 8/6/23 8:36 PM

RE: Looking for a meditation teacher in NJ

Posts: 19 Join Date: 9/20/20 Recent Posts
Thank you for the insight! I will make sure to check out Thanissaro Bhikkhu's recordings and books!

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