Still Beginning

Mind Body Spirit, modified 1 Year ago at 6/13/23 6:13 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 6/13/23 6:13 AM

Still Beginning

Posts: 27 Join Date: 4/28/23 Recent Posts
After reading some more posts, I now see how much more experience & research I'm going to need to do before I make some big progress.

I'm just very busy, with barely enough time to cook a decent meal at the end of the day. I've started squeezing in meditation sessions, but if 2 hours a day isn't sufficient to make substantial leaps, I don't know how I can make this work.

My only option is to patiently wait until I'm in a situation in which I can practice for longer periods of time. Given my limited time, what are some optimal strategies for me to use to make the most of my meditation? My initial impressions are that shorter sessions provide opportunities to focus on mastering technique... but I can see how misguided this impression could be. Looking forward to your responses, thank you.
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 6/13/23 7:05 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 6/13/23 7:05 AM

RE: Still Beginning

Posts: 5475 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Mediation practice isn't about duration. It's about consistency. Shorter practice periods can be done every day. Just be consistent - develop a habit that's hard to break. I rarely meditated for longer than 30 to 45 minutes at a time, but I did that twice a day, every day, come rain or shine. I'd get up early to do it. I'd stay up a bit later to do it. Whatever was going on outside my practice wasn't worth killing the momentum of consistent practice. And... don't make not being able to practice for hours and hours every day an excuse not to practice.

You can do this.
thumbnail
Bahiya Baby, modified 1 Year ago at 6/13/23 8:11 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 6/13/23 8:11 AM

RE: Still Beginning

Posts: 835 Join Date: 5/26/23 Recent Posts
Hey,

Don't worry, short daily sessions are great and you can get a lot done in 30-45minutes let alone two hours. 

I run my own business, have never had time to do a full on retreat. I practice everyday and from time to time find periods when I can work a little less and ramp up meditation. Thus far this has served me well. 

Part of being a householder is mastering the hustle of daily life. This too can become something we bring deeper awareness to. Life becomes practice, practice becomes art. 

"You can do this." You can !

​​​​​​​What style of practice are you exploring?
Mind Body Spirit, modified 1 Year ago at 6/14/23 1:45 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 6/14/23 1:45 AM

RE: Still Beginning

Posts: 27 Join Date: 4/28/23 Recent Posts
I think I could do 30-45min a day consistently. What is the progress like?

Is this sufficient to begin experiencing different jhanas? I'm very limited in my knowledge re all this. I plan to read mctb2 when some time frees up soon.
thumbnail
Pawel K, modified 1 Year ago at 6/14/23 10:03 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 6/14/23 10:03 AM

RE: Still Beginning

Posts: 1172 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
30-45 min daily is great start actually.
Just do not set any buzzers if you do not have to and schedule your sessions in such a way that when you can sit longer then you do.
This is because when session goes amazing it is waste to break it and do anythign else - nothing is more important than letting mind go through what it goes in good meditation sessions.

Jhana progression is such that if you actually concentrate well you will be able to hit up to the so called formless jhanas. No really true formless jhanas and not even in ways they yet look like descriptions (which are pretty bogus anyways as those descriptions are of refined formed jhanas) but at first when you cannot really experience piti or sukha and 4th jhana doesn't feel like pure equaminity but more like normal mind with peculiar changes in size of your mind then going to "5th jhana" feels more like size of mind goind to single point and otherwise what later will be infinite space will feel like thick sheet of mind (it is grosser type of form mind looses with time when you meditate a lot).

What I am trying to say that it is in fact possible to hit higher jhanas early in practice but they won't really BE the true jhanas but at the same time they are true jhanas. You could think of them as very unrefined. Most refined jhanas you will only be able to experience after 4th path - then everything will be formless and even formed jhanas will have intrisic to them form on background of formless mind. At first it is kinda reverse - mind is endoved with gross form so any jhanas happening anywhere in mind will not be able to shine through. Doesn't however mean they do not happen so one should not get impatient and just concentrate until they develop to higher jhanas and as days/weeks/months/years go by mind will drop more and more gross form and then it won't want it even in normal waking experience so after some time you will experience more clean jhanas. Rinse and repeat.

Also important thing: if you want things to move faster then practice outside meditation. Practice inducing experiences you had during meditation including experiences of lack of certain experiences when you are ouside meditation and keep your mind as much as it was during meditation. If all you do it instantly go to normal mind when you are ouside meditation and do not do anything with experienced you have during meditation then your  meditation practice will take very long to yield any significant results and will be frustrating. Imagine you can have jhana in any part of mind (eg. in your hand) instantly and as pure as you can imagine it being (even if you cannot experience it as pure during meditation) and try to actualize it. That practice you can certainly find time during the day. If you practice like that you will have fast progress in your jhana practice.
thumbnail
Bahiya Baby, modified 1 Year ago at 6/14/23 11:53 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 6/14/23 11:52 AM

RE: Still Beginning

Posts: 835 Join Date: 5/26/23 Recent Posts
With the right tools at your disposal progress can be made. How quick or slow can depend from person to person. 

I highly recommend familiarising yourself with the territory and lingo. 

Reading MCTB2 would be a good start. 

Also I like to suggest Path to Nibbana by David C. Johnson. The practice in that book is quite good, for both beginners and those further along, and they package the jhanas and loving kindness into their approach to insight. This and MCTB2 are the two books I wish I had as a beginner(on an extremely minimal pragmatic level, I could recommend a bunch more lol). 
thumbnail
Jim Smith, modified 1 Year ago at 6/14/23 8:27 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 6/14/23 8:03 PM

RE: Still Beginning

Posts: 1814 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Mind Body Spirit
After reading some more posts, I now see how much more experience & research I'm going to need to do before I make some big progress.

I'm just very busy, with barely enough time to cook a decent meal at the end of the day. I've started squeezing in meditation sessions, but if 2 hours a day isn't sufficient to make substantial leaps, I don't know how I can make this work.

My only option is to patiently wait until I'm in a situation in which I can practice for longer periods of time. Given my limited time, what are some optimal strategies for me to use to make the most of my meditation? My initial impressions are that shorter sessions provide opportunities to focus on mastering technique... but I can see how misguided this impression could be. Looking forward to your responses, thank you.


Try to practice in daily life when possible. This will not just extend the amount you practice, but will help keep your mind "in tune" so that you get more out of your sitting meditation.

Also, a lot of people make good progress but they go slowly. I'm not sure who you are measuring against, but two hours a day is pretty good if you have a job or are in school and or have a family.

Two hours a day is sufficient to make substantial progress on it's own timeline. And with most forms of meditation that much will leave you with a quiet mind so that you are able to be mindful in daily life to some extent (not perfectly but enough to get something from it).

https://www.lionsroar.com/on-enlightenment-an-interview-with-shinzen-young/
On Enlightenment – An Interview with Shinzen Young

...

When it happens suddenly and dramatically you’re in seventh heaven. It’s like after the first experience of love, you’ll never be the same. However, for most people who’ve studied with me it doesn’t happen that way. What does happen is that the person gradually works through the things that get in the way of enlightenment, but so gradually that they might not notice. What typically happens is that over a period of years, and indeed decades, within that person the craving, aversion, and unconsciousness—the mula kleshas (the fundamental “impurities”), get worked through. But because all this is happening gradually they’re acclimatizing as it’s occurring and they may not realize how far they’ve come. That’s why I like telling the story about the samurai...


One last bit of advice, and I can't really tell if this applies to you from just a short post, but sometimes when people are trying to make progress quickly they bring a kind of "intense" attitude to the practice. But that is the opposite of the non-attached state that is the ultimate goal of the practice. So my advice is to try to bring a relaxed attitude to the practice. Practice in a relaxing way, try to be relaxed when you practice and don't take things too seriously.
Mind Body Spirit, modified 1 Year ago at 6/16/23 8:28 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 6/16/23 8:28 AM

RE: Still Beginning

Posts: 27 Join Date: 4/28/23 Recent Posts
Thank you for your considerate & helpful responses. 

Based on the brief description of unrefined 4th Jhana, I may have experienced this once, but haven't been able to replicate the experience yet.

For practicing outside of the sitting meditation, I generally just try to be present as much as possible. I don't think I have enough experience with Jhana to see how Jhana may be applied outside of sitting meditation. Nonetheless, I'll try some of those visualization exercises.

And I appreciate the book suggestion. I will certainly check that out.

​​​​​​​Cheers

Breadcrumb