Fruitions are not like fruit, kinda - Discussion
Fruitions are not like fruit, kinda
Robert Lydon, modified 1 Year ago at 6/26/23 9:17 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 6/26/23 9:17 PM
Fruitions are not like fruit, kinda
Posts: 77 Join Date: 6/19/23 Recent Posts
Fruit tastes good, generally, but I guess that is a dichotomous view or duality. Anybody get a sensation of neuro rewiring at fruition, slight headache, that would not be discribed as bliss, sunshine and rainbows? How about a taste almost matalic but not? Not concerned but just curious if this has been phenomenologically recorded. Wouldn't it be funny if it tasted like fruity pebbles?
Pawel K, modified 1 Year ago at 6/27/23 3:41 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 6/27/23 3:41 PM
RE: Fruitions are not like fruit, kinda
Posts: 1172 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Fruitions can have many forms or doors apparently.
I experienced both those which felt like Nibbana but also the so called True Self and even Metta fruitions
There were also taste-less frutions which seemingly only brought my mind state to 1st nana which felt like "wanna enlightenment that badly? there!" with doors to previous blissful high-EQ shutting down with a loud slamming kind of sound. I guess the one I am thinking about was dukkha door
When I had many fruitions I didn't even know what they were and I never really thought of them or desired them. They just happened spontaneously. Just some kind of seizure which made me feel incredibly nice. Otherwise that whole part of my practice felt like I was on auto-pilot, things just happened and I always knew what to do. Only later at 2nd path it felt like I am entering somewhat new territory. Somewhat because I felt like I know what to do but there was this eerie feeling that isn't what I should be doing because it will lead me nowhere. So I decided to not desire fruitions and not cling to my attainment. I still got fruitions but none of them I recognize as any significant change by itself and best changes happened through other means and those would be how I learned how to induce fruition afterglow without actual fruitions. 4th path fruition was kinda cool and it was "reference experience" fruition which was something I was working on at the time.
In other words imho fruition is just effect which is related to stuff which can be experienced normally but when it isn't fully experienced sentient beings get impatient and are like "f... it, gonna do it ourselves because we feel ready and as mind we will never gonna do it!" and then they send impulses. It is possible to break the fruition in-between pulses but I do not recommend it because then rather than amazing it feels terrible... I should probably not mention it but it is what I observed
Metta fruition... do vipassana noticing three universal aspects of all phenomena: loving, kindness and compassion. Then like with normal fruitions focusing on two aspects at once will generate three doors. There really are three types of metta fruitions or three doors. One could probably go to 4th path on metta alone. Maybe if I did that instead of dwelling in brain technicalities I would be more compassionate being less obsessed with brain technicalities
Three Characteristics of all phenomena Loving, Kindness and Compassion,
Ni
ps. If you want genuine fruit tasting fruitions maybe do vipassana seeing fruity characteristics of all phenomena? Never tried it myself but as they say: world belongs to the brave
I experienced both those which felt like Nibbana but also the so called True Self and even Metta fruitions
There were also taste-less frutions which seemingly only brought my mind state to 1st nana which felt like "wanna enlightenment that badly? there!" with doors to previous blissful high-EQ shutting down with a loud slamming kind of sound. I guess the one I am thinking about was dukkha door
When I had many fruitions I didn't even know what they were and I never really thought of them or desired them. They just happened spontaneously. Just some kind of seizure which made me feel incredibly nice. Otherwise that whole part of my practice felt like I was on auto-pilot, things just happened and I always knew what to do. Only later at 2nd path it felt like I am entering somewhat new territory. Somewhat because I felt like I know what to do but there was this eerie feeling that isn't what I should be doing because it will lead me nowhere. So I decided to not desire fruitions and not cling to my attainment. I still got fruitions but none of them I recognize as any significant change by itself and best changes happened through other means and those would be how I learned how to induce fruition afterglow without actual fruitions. 4th path fruition was kinda cool and it was "reference experience" fruition which was something I was working on at the time.
In other words imho fruition is just effect which is related to stuff which can be experienced normally but when it isn't fully experienced sentient beings get impatient and are like "f... it, gonna do it ourselves because we feel ready and as mind we will never gonna do it!" and then they send impulses. It is possible to break the fruition in-between pulses but I do not recommend it because then rather than amazing it feels terrible... I should probably not mention it but it is what I observed
Metta fruition... do vipassana noticing three universal aspects of all phenomena: loving, kindness and compassion. Then like with normal fruitions focusing on two aspects at once will generate three doors. There really are three types of metta fruitions or three doors. One could probably go to 4th path on metta alone. Maybe if I did that instead of dwelling in brain technicalities I would be more compassionate being less obsessed with brain technicalities
Three Characteristics of all phenomena Loving, Kindness and Compassion,
Ni
ps. If you want genuine fruit tasting fruitions maybe do vipassana seeing fruity characteristics of all phenomena? Never tried it myself but as they say: world belongs to the brave
Robert Lydon, modified 1 Year ago at 6/28/23 1:09 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 6/28/23 1:09 AM
RE: Fruitions are not like fruit, kinda
Posts: 77 Join Date: 6/19/23 Recent Posts
Thanks Ni Nurta for the response. I don't have as much definition or description as you but welcome the new ideas. Fruitions, for me, are either large or small in sensation or afterglow. Large involves more substantial neuro rewiring, I suppose, leading to more of a sensation like the slightest of headaches after the "blip." Small is even less predomanent but still sensed. They haven't been too AP like more mundane flicking on and off of the breakers.
I'll look into Metta fruitions and the other types. Do you use the twim method to achieve those or just as you described? I don't use a combo with typical fruitions described above. If I where to catagorize using Daniel's description of the doors, I think most are the no-self door. Maybe it is combo'd with the impermanence aspect too but it is all rapidly shown from a choiceless awareness space. I don't pay to much attention to the doors shown. Or manually facilitate it as much. Must be the choiceless ness.
I'll give your method a try!
I'll look into Metta fruitions and the other types. Do you use the twim method to achieve those or just as you described? I don't use a combo with typical fruitions described above. If I where to catagorize using Daniel's description of the doors, I think most are the no-self door. Maybe it is combo'd with the impermanence aspect too but it is all rapidly shown from a choiceless awareness space. I don't pay to much attention to the doors shown. Or manually facilitate it as much. Must be the choiceless ness.
I'll give your method a try!
Pawel K, modified 1 Year ago at 6/28/23 1:25 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 6/28/23 1:23 PM
RE: Fruitions are not like fruit, kinda
Posts: 1172 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
I meant noticing metta just as you would investigate/notice 3C as characteristics of all phenomena.
Do it totally mechanically if that normally helps you get fruitions. Just be sure to focus on right sensations - metta has nothing to do with sensations appearing and disappearing, suffering or no-self!
Also using noting or any vipassana in this way will not be negatively affecting normal vipassana practice - quite the opposite actually. Mind overtrained in noticing one specific thing will be pretty bad at noting different things. In meditation lingo it is called "overfitting"
https://www.ibm.com/topics/overfitting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting
ps. It goes without saying that when I post links to IBM I mean business
Do it totally mechanically if that normally helps you get fruitions. Just be sure to focus on right sensations - metta has nothing to do with sensations appearing and disappearing, suffering or no-self!
Also using noting or any vipassana in this way will not be negatively affecting normal vipassana practice - quite the opposite actually. Mind overtrained in noticing one specific thing will be pretty bad at noting different things. In meditation lingo it is called "overfitting"
https://www.ibm.com/topics/overfitting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting
ps. It goes without saying that when I post links to IBM I mean business
Robert Lydon, modified 1 Year ago at 6/28/23 8:47 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 6/28/23 8:47 PM
RE: Fruitions are not like fruit, kinda
Posts: 77 Join Date: 6/19/23 Recent Posts
Interesting. Would choiceless awareness be under fitting? I'm not trying to figure out the phenomenology and I am pretty down the road in regards to understanding the 3 characteristics. I guess I haven't diversified my portfolio so to speak. I'll try some Metta investigations. Take down Zuck, jk. I did it once and it felt crazy powerful but no fruition or inclination to go there. How long are you sitting with powered up Metta?