Awakened to the Self, Fell into Dark Night, Fear of impermanence

Adam ., modified 9 Years ago.

Awakened to the Self, Fell into Dark Night, Fear of impermanence

Posts: 5 Join Date: 12/13/11 Recent Posts
Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this.

I have practiced meditation for only about 5 years now. 2 years ago I had an experience/realization about reality that has changed who I am completely. I came to know the self, the inner I, whatever you want to call it. Iv read from a few member's on the board, there experience sounds like mine. At first after this happened I was very happy. More happy then in my entire life. I believed I had the world figured out and I thought I was Immortal. Iv had out of body experiences, Which gave me a sense of knowing that a soul of some sort existed, which led me to the assumption that my soul was immortal and I would still be there after death. After time however I came down. What goes up must come down right? I feel into this crippling depression, It got a lil better, nothing like where I was before though, then it went back down, then sometimes up, then down again, and that's where I am now. My meditations no longer go so deep. I lack will power and compassion. I do not believe I will ever be able to reach where I was before at that time and this causes me to be even more distraught. I began to doubt everything, all my reassurances gone. I have an overwhelming fear of death now that was never there before. I want to continue to exist when I die. I found that iv built up delusions around my mind to keep me from this fear.
I do not mean to complain in this next part, it seems immature but it is essential to the rut Ive found myself stuck in. Iv fallen in love before, I believe so anyway, I often doubt if love in the sense that people think of it even exists, but this person has stayed in my heart and will not leave no matter how much I try, or meditate, or pray. I failed that person very badly in my life, I don't believe I can fix it in this life time.

I don't fear death because its mysterious, or because "maybe ill go to hell", i feel i'm past those fears. But because I failed this person I cant help but hold onto who I am, I want more then anything to believe ill be reborn into another life and given another chance. But I cant just believe in what I want to believe.

I need help with one of two things. Letting go of these failures and forgiving myself, truly. Or learning to understand death and what comes after in a more direct sense so that my beliefs do not stem from egotistical desire.
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Nikolai ., modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Awakened to the Self, Fell into Dark Night, Fear of impermanence

Posts: 1650 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Hi Adam,

I deleted your two other threads of the same name as it seems you posted them a few times by mistake.

Can you give us all a run down in detail of your current practice. What are you doing and what is going on in it phenomenologically? Let's see if we can help.

Nick
Adam ., modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Awakened to the Self, Fell into Dark Night, Fear of impermanence

Posts: 5 Join Date: 12/13/11 Recent Posts
Nikolai .:
Hi Adam,

I deleted your two other threads of the same name as it seems you posted them a few times by mistake.

Can you give us all a run down in detail of your current practice. What are you doing and what is going on in it phenomenologically? Let's see if we can help.

Nick


I have not meditated as much as I used to currently I usually try to for about 20 min each day but the results are not always that apparent. like I said I have been lacking in will power. Around the time of my A and P for around 2 years I would meditate very regularly, a half hour when I woke up and a half hour at night.
I did lots of different kinds of meditates, thought flow and emptiness meditations, kundalini, hartha, raja yoga. some hermetic meditations, Sometimes I will meditate off lies from the Tao Te Ching, I chant mantras sometimes, more often then all these I will just try to empty my mind and practice mindfulness though. My meditations would also be a lot more profound and deep before. I would often have epiphany's and start writing down all my thoughts, that or I would start rambling to myself and laughing, and at other times I would feel the urge to run and would do so down the street a few blocks. they would happen pretty much every other day, now I get them about once a month and again not as profound or deep. I always have an intense appreciation and connection with everything, i am able to see the joy in almost everything. Also my vision will appear to get better and more clear. I will get into these mind sets and everything will get positive, its the only time the dark nights seems to not get me down so much anymore. and every time i have one I try to stay in the mindset but it just fades.

I just cant come to peace with this idea of impermanence, Intellectually I understand what it means, why its a good thing. that there is peace in it. but a large part of me wants to endure, I literally feel like two sides of who I am are trying to kill each other. Part of me says I feel this way because there is nothing after death and i'm deluding myself into thinking there is anything and the other is saying there is something after death and its your thoughts that there arn't are wrong.

not sure what you men by phenomenologically,

I would greatly appreciate some meditation practices you could recommend that would help me understand these things more or help me come out of the dark night.
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Nikolai ., modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Awakened to the Self, Fell into Dark Night, Fear of impermanence

Posts: 1650 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Phenomenologically means to describe what happens when you practice with the details of what sensations, types of thoughts, ,emotions, moods, images etc were experienced. No speculation on what they might mean or this and that. Just plain phenomenological descriptions.

Your concentration and tranquility levels might need some beefing up. Have you practiced anapana meditation before? It will help calm the mind and result in an increase in joy, a good antidote for the dark night.

I recommend trying these instructions with an emphasis on breathing aware of the whole body.Try training the mind from the 1st part (contemplating the length of the breath), then work your way through each part shifting to what it says you should contemplate. Here contemplate means to recognise in experience and gently allow the mind´s attention to fall on those aspects continually. Directing your thought thus, you will train the mind in becoming tranquil and will relax those blind processes of mind and body which lead to dark night being so dark (ignorance of craving and clinging).

If you are up for it, dedictae 30 minutes or more to trying out at least observing the length of the breath as it comes in and out and tell me what you experience here in this thread.

"Now how is mindfulness of in-&-out breathing developed & pursued so as to be of great fruit, of great benefit?

"There is the case where a monk, having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building, sits down folding his legs crosswise, holding his body erect, and setting mindfulness to the fore. Always mindful, he breathes in; mindful he breathes out.

"Breathing in long, he discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; otthr breathing out long, he discerns, 'I am breathing out long.' Or breathing in short, he discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, he discerns, 'I am breathing out short.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the entire body.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the entire body.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming bodily fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming bodily fabrication.'

He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to rapture.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to rapture.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to pleasure.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to pleasure.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming mental fabrication.'

" He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in satisfying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out satisfying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in steadying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out steadying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in releasing the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out releasing the mind.'

" He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on inconstancy.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on inconstancy.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on dispassion [literally, fading].' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on dispassion.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on cessation.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on cessation.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on relinquishment.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on relinquishment.'

"This is how mindfulness of in-&-out breathing is developed & pursued so as to be of great fruit, of great benefit.
Adam T Micheal, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Awakened to the Self, Fell into Dark Night, Fear of impermanence

Post: 1 Join Date: 12/18/11 Recent Posts
Nikolai .:
Phenomenologically means to describe what happens when you practice with the details of what sensations, types of thoughts, ,emotions, moods, images etc were experienced. No speculation on what they might mean or this and that. Just plain phenomenological descriptions.

Your concentration and tranquility levels might need some beefing up. Have you practiced anapana meditation before? It will help calm the mind and result in an increase in joy, a good antidote for the dark night.

I recommend trying these instructions with an emphasis on breathing aware of the whole body.Try training the mind from the 1st part (contemplating the length of the breath), then work your way through each part shifting to what it says you should contemplate. Here contemplate means to recognise in experience and gently allow the mind´s attention to fall on those aspects continually. Directing your thought thus, you will train the mind in becoming tranquil and will relax those blind processes of mind and body which lead to dark night being so dark (ignorance of craving and clinging).

If you are up for it, dedictae 30 minutes or more to trying out at least observing the length of the breath as it comes in and out and tell me what you experience here in this thread.

"Now how is mindfulness of in-&-out breathing developed & pursued so as to be of great fruit, of great benefit?

"There is the case where a monk, having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building, sits down folding his legs crosswise, holding his body erect, and setting mindfulness to the fore. Always mindful, he breathes in; mindful he breathes out.

"Breathing in long, he discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; otthr breathing out long, he discerns, 'I am breathing out long.' Or breathing in short, he discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, he discerns, 'I am breathing out short.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the entire body.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the entire body.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming bodily fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming bodily fabrication.'

He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to rapture.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to rapture.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to pleasure.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to pleasure.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming mental fabrication.'

" He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in satisfying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out satisfying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in steadying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out steadying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in releasing the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out releasing the mind.'

" He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on inconstancy.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on inconstancy.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on dispassion [literally, fading].' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on dispassion.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on cessation.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on cessation.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on relinquishment.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on relinquishment.'

"This is how mindfulness of in-&-out breathing is developed & pursued so as to be of great fruit, of great benefit.


For some reason i got locked out of my account and i had to make a new one. This is me again though

Thank you for the exercise and advise. I am familure with these kinds of meditation they have a lot to do with Prana. I usually do them occacionally but I will start doing them more throughout this week and get back to you.
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Tommy M, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Awakened to the Self, Fell into Dark Night, Fear of impermanence

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
I am familure with these kinds of meditation they have a lot to do with Prana.

No, these exercises don't have anything to do with "prana". You're mistaking mindfulness of the in and out breath, also known as anapanasati, with pranayama. It's a totally different approach, pranayama involves developing control of the breath and counting cycles of it, whereas anapanasati only requires one to stay attentive to the breath as it flows naturally. Don't mix them up, the results are quite different and will cause you unnecessary confusion.

I don't know if you've been back to the site since you posted this, another user responded earlier which brought it to the recent posts category.
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Bruno Loff, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Awakened to the Self, Fell into Dark Night, Fear of impermanence

Posts: 1094 Join Date: 8/30/09 Recent Posts
Thoughts of immortality, "true self", bla bla bla = A & P.

Ensuing depression, panic, dread, thinking life sucks, thinking you suck, thinking you'll never be free of this, bla bla bla = Dark Night.

In fact, any little story running in your mind right now or ever, that plays you as the main character, is a form of delusion.

With correct application of correct meditation technique in sufficient amounts and with sufficient dedication (have you considered going on retreat?), you will get rid of this.
Abram Manevich, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Awakened to the Self, Fell into Dark Night, Fear of impermanence

Post: 1 Join Date: 3/24/11 Recent Posts
To put it bluntly dude, you gotta start sitting a whole hell of a lot. I was in a very similar position about a year and a half ago and to this day it was one of the roughest patches I've ever gone through. Realize that the mind will assign stories to whatever emotion your feeling. i.e- if your experiencing what seems like earth shattering fear your mind will assign to it a fear of death. Hell your mind will assign the most irrational illogical states you can imagine. The problem with this state is whatever it is you think you automatically believe. I would recommend going on retreat, preferably a Mahasi one. Noting, in my experience tends to stop me from getting wrapped up in my endless stories.

Try to convince yourself time and time again to not buy into your stories. I promise that with a little bit of practice, and intensive work you'll soon find a new perspective on all these issues; one that won't be so painful and difficult to deal with.

Much love man, hope you navigate yourself out of the dark night soon.

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