Hi Friends,

Have any of you experienced dark night stages while scrupulously following the five precepts over time? I went through years of very rough territory consistent with being a dark night yogi, but when I started keeping the precepts more carefully I began to see a relationship between difficult states and "leaky precepts." This included applying rationalizations for modernizing or modifying the basic precepts as written. I wonder if any of you have seen a similar correlation? I'm the last person you'd call a fundamentalist, but I can't ignore the data I'm receiving.

Thanks from Tokyo, John

Hi John,

in the interview I just posted with David Johnson, he makes the point very strongly about the importance of keeping the precepts and how attainment of paths makes it much less likely that you break them.  Personally speaking, I find that as I have progressed in meditation I am much less likely to break any of the precepts. It's interesting that you can see this in relation to the dark night.

As an aside, I do think that the dark night is much less of an issue when you follow a more Samatha based practice such as TWIM (which uses metta and the other brahmaviharas).

Best regards,

Conal

Thanks so much, Conal!

The TWIM people are adamant that progress in meditation can't take place without establishing the precepts first. It's a very interesting perspective. I have heard of so many people here and elsewhere who experienced attainments (however one defines those) independent of or prior to a rigorous observance of the precepts. That said, I always ask myself how it's working for me, and trying to leave no stone unturned in my own quest for complete freedom and understanding.

I really appreciate your answer. It was most helpful.

Kind regards,
John

Hi John,

 I'm glad to be of help.

They go even further actually and say that all hindrances are a result of not fully keeping the precepts, so if that's true then I would imagine that a strict application of the precepts would result in enlightenment.

Of course they're not the only ones to emphasise the importance of the precepts. I'm pretty sure that you make a commitment to following the precepts at the beginning of a Goenka course and after a Mahasi course that I did, we were asked to commit to following the precepts in our daily lives.

The tricky one for westerners in particular is the substance abuse one!  I just gradually reduced my use of alcohol and now don't drink it at all.  This is something that may be difficult to do when starting meditation though. I think you just gradually become more aware of such issues and there's a positive feedback loop where you can see the effects it has on your meditation.

 I like your quest, by the way. Good luck with keeping to it!

best regards,

​​​​​​​Conal