Newcomer Looking For Advice - Discussion
(A) This means I never found a technique that worked as well as vipassana. Given that my intensity of meditation wasn't close to what it is now, I wouldn't attribute it all to the technique, however I see beauty in it's simplicity. You can't overthink it which I classically do.
(
Yes it is hardcore. Yes it is difficult to maintain.
(C) That's good advice. I'll read through, keep my practice, and go back to it when I feel it would be useful.
(D) In all honesty my practice is more Anapanasati (keeping the attention on the nose and the sensations that arise and pass). I will do body scanning but honestly my concentration needs to be stronger I think.
(E) Thank you for taking the time to lend your advice! I appreciate it very much.
(
Yes it is hardcore. Yes it is difficult to maintain.(C) That's good advice. I'll read through, keep my practice, and go back to it when I feel it would be useful.
(D) In all honesty my practice is more Anapanasati (keeping the attention on the nose and the sensations that arise and pass). I will do body scanning but honestly my concentration needs to be stronger I think.
(E) Thank you for taking the time to lend your advice! I appreciate it very much.
The Insight Meditation Center offers retreats for free or volunteer work, but they're in California. Not sure if that's do-able for you: https://www.insightretreatcenter.org/ If not, there may be other places like that closer to you.
You're so brave for having done a retreat so early in your meditation experience. I feel like I've meditated quite a lot and even I'm a bit frightened of doing such a long retreat, haha.
The fact that it was a pleasant experience for you is lucky--or you were just ready for it, which is great. A lot of people new to meditation find a retreat to be basically torture. What glimpse did you see of what meditation offers?
Anyway, to answer your initial question, what I wish I had known when I'd started out on my meditation journey is that having a profound spiritual experience would make meditation so much easier. You'd think it would be the other way around, but it wasn't for me. You really don't need much training at all to make an intense spiritual experience happen. It happens spontaneously for some people. (Did it happen for you on the retreat?) For some reason, people look down on jhana, which is a very pleasant spiritual feeling, but it can really make meditation much more enjoyable. Since motivation is a major part of the path, anything that motivates me to meditate is a good thing, imo. It sounds like you're enjoying meditation already though, so not sure this will be helpful to you.
You're so brave for having done a retreat so early in your meditation experience. I feel like I've meditated quite a lot and even I'm a bit frightened of doing such a long retreat, haha.
The fact that it was a pleasant experience for you is lucky--or you were just ready for it, which is great. A lot of people new to meditation find a retreat to be basically torture. What glimpse did you see of what meditation offers?Anyway, to answer your initial question, what I wish I had known when I'd started out on my meditation journey is that having a profound spiritual experience would make meditation so much easier. You'd think it would be the other way around, but it wasn't for me. You really don't need much training at all to make an intense spiritual experience happen. It happens spontaneously for some people. (Did it happen for you on the retreat?) For some reason, people look down on jhana, which is a very pleasant spiritual feeling, but it can really make meditation much more enjoyable. Since motivation is a major part of the path, anything that motivates me to meditate is a good thing, imo. It sounds like you're enjoying meditation already though, so not sure this will be helpful to you.
Hey friend! If you've been on your first goenka retreat in may, and you're still doing the solid 2 hours they recomend, I applaud you, you're definetly ahead of the curve regarding discipline. Discipline is one of the most important skills when persuing meditation. I've been to a couple of Goenka retreats myself, and maybe I can help with your questions.
I agree Goenka retreats can feel a bit culty to some (kinda me included). However, the teachings of the man himself are in accordance with basic theravada dogma (he doesn't come up with his own stuff), and Goenka doesn't stand out as manipulative, neither he develops a cult of personality, often far from it. HIS FOLLOWING however, ppl who run the centers after Goenka passing, and specially the new students, often in awe of the recently discovered power of their own minds, can associate that with the teacher. That's what might give the culty vibes to some, depending on each class of students, who's running the center, etc.. I didnt feel that when retreating at the Gaia House in Britain, but I'm guessing that happens in other places too, as Daniel mentions on his book. Also Goenka is a gargantuan "franchise" of meditation centers, so there's plenty of ppl to report their positive and negative experiences.
What stand out on goenka retreats as far as I know their strict discipline overall (they have volunteer "managers", basically enforcers of the rules), very long hours of only sitting meditation and some long ass classes lol. However, if you adapted to body scanning (which he simply calls "vipassana") and didnt find the discipline grueling, is a great place to retreat on a budget and a place as good as any to get some work done. It wouldnt be my first choice If I lived in the US or Europe thou, but Goenka is one of the few available in Brazil.
About theory, such as Daniel's book and "maps", I fully agree with the yogi above. It can really help if it's your thing. I belive if used properly, maps do more good then harm. You have to be aware of the reasons some teachers ignore or rather not talk about vipassana meditation as a "progression" towards something, thou. I had 2 students completly ignore theory beyond the basic I teached them. It's a valid criticism, but If you're running solo, I still rather have more knowledge then less, and use wisdom and experience to balance my deeply obsessive traits. It is not what will make or break the evolution of your practice, is completly optional IMO, but I'd use it exaclty as the other friend described it.
Finally, the most important, I'd like to know about details of your practice, if you care to elaborate, so we can provide more specific guidance. Specifics would be stuff like: what were the most distinct experiences you had in retreat, how was energy levels over the 10 days, how was sleep. How often did your attetion was detecting "gross sensations" and "fine sensations", did you experience something kinda of relatable to the "free flow" all over the body? The more you can describe the very physical and mental sensations you were feeling, the better we can understand your stage of practice.
As a general advice thou, you're doing a solid work. There are several reasons one can feel it's hard to keep practicing after retreat. Maybe they expect the huge levels of concentration they developed in retreat. Maybe they expect the calm enviroment. However, it's very common for practice to be harder after major breaktroughs. It feels like just when you developed precious concentration, it's sudenly gone and you seem to not be able to focus anymore. That's normal, every vipassana meditador goes trough this. The single most important advice is: KEEP PRACTICING. The practice WILL shift eventually, specially if you have the discipline and consistency to do the solid 2 hours a day like you've been doing. If I were you I'd pick either anapana or body scan and stick to it for a longer period of time (at least a few months). Switching techniques must be done with A LOT of consideration, that's why Goenka STRONGLY asks you to stick to his technique and forget any other while in retreat. That's a solid piece of instruction. Remember, concentration in and out retreat is VERY different, so maybe what you're calling "low concentration for body scan" might be just what regular off-retreat concentration is like, you just have to apply the technique the best you can and roll with it. If you chose to stay with body scan, do it PRECISELY as the old goenka tells you to..(go after the audios of the classes if you need to, pretty sure they're on youtube, I think also on their website). However, if you feel more confortable with Anapana, that's absolutely fine.
With all that being said, try to have a positive, even explorer attitude, be patient. With the work ethic you showed thus far, you have nowhere to go but forward (or, playing with Theravada theory, you have nowhere to go at all ).
Anyway, that was a massive wall of text, think I got a bit carried away, but feel free to ask anything or describe your practice further. Thank you for the attention, and best regards.
I agree Goenka retreats can feel a bit culty to some (kinda me included). However, the teachings of the man himself are in accordance with basic theravada dogma (he doesn't come up with his own stuff), and Goenka doesn't stand out as manipulative, neither he develops a cult of personality, often far from it. HIS FOLLOWING however, ppl who run the centers after Goenka passing, and specially the new students, often in awe of the recently discovered power of their own minds, can associate that with the teacher. That's what might give the culty vibes to some, depending on each class of students, who's running the center, etc.. I didnt feel that when retreating at the Gaia House in Britain, but I'm guessing that happens in other places too, as Daniel mentions on his book. Also Goenka is a gargantuan "franchise" of meditation centers, so there's plenty of ppl to report their positive and negative experiences.
What stand out on goenka retreats as far as I know their strict discipline overall (they have volunteer "managers", basically enforcers of the rules), very long hours of only sitting meditation and some long ass classes lol. However, if you adapted to body scanning (which he simply calls "vipassana") and didnt find the discipline grueling, is a great place to retreat on a budget and a place as good as any to get some work done. It wouldnt be my first choice If I lived in the US or Europe thou, but Goenka is one of the few available in Brazil.
About theory, such as Daniel's book and "maps", I fully agree with the yogi above. It can really help if it's your thing. I belive if used properly, maps do more good then harm. You have to be aware of the reasons some teachers ignore or rather not talk about vipassana meditation as a "progression" towards something, thou. I had 2 students completly ignore theory beyond the basic I teached them. It's a valid criticism, but If you're running solo, I still rather have more knowledge then less, and use wisdom and experience to balance my deeply obsessive traits. It is not what will make or break the evolution of your practice, is completly optional IMO, but I'd use it exaclty as the other friend described it.
Finally, the most important, I'd like to know about details of your practice, if you care to elaborate, so we can provide more specific guidance. Specifics would be stuff like: what were the most distinct experiences you had in retreat, how was energy levels over the 10 days, how was sleep. How often did your attetion was detecting "gross sensations" and "fine sensations", did you experience something kinda of relatable to the "free flow" all over the body? The more you can describe the very physical and mental sensations you were feeling, the better we can understand your stage of practice.
As a general advice thou, you're doing a solid work. There are several reasons one can feel it's hard to keep practicing after retreat. Maybe they expect the huge levels of concentration they developed in retreat. Maybe they expect the calm enviroment. However, it's very common for practice to be harder after major breaktroughs. It feels like just when you developed precious concentration, it's sudenly gone and you seem to not be able to focus anymore. That's normal, every vipassana meditador goes trough this. The single most important advice is: KEEP PRACTICING. The practice WILL shift eventually, specially if you have the discipline and consistency to do the solid 2 hours a day like you've been doing. If I were you I'd pick either anapana or body scan and stick to it for a longer period of time (at least a few months). Switching techniques must be done with A LOT of consideration, that's why Goenka STRONGLY asks you to stick to his technique and forget any other while in retreat. That's a solid piece of instruction. Remember, concentration in and out retreat is VERY different, so maybe what you're calling "low concentration for body scan" might be just what regular off-retreat concentration is like, you just have to apply the technique the best you can and roll with it. If you chose to stay with body scan, do it PRECISELY as the old goenka tells you to..(go after the audios of the classes if you need to, pretty sure they're on youtube, I think also on their website). However, if you feel more confortable with Anapana, that's absolutely fine.
With all that being said, try to have a positive, even explorer attitude, be patient. With the work ethic you showed thus far, you have nowhere to go but forward (or, playing with Theravada theory, you have nowhere to go at all
).Anyway, that was a massive wall of text, think I got a bit carried away, but feel free to ask anything or describe your practice further. Thank you for the attention, and best regards.