Some help diagnosing this would be appreciated

Matt Latham, modified 8 Months ago at 8/12/23 5:28 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 8/12/23 5:28 AM

Some help diagnosing this would be appreciated

Post: 1 Join Date: 8/12/23 Recent Posts
A little over a year ago I had a couple of big experiences which feel quite attainment-y, but there are some parts of the symptomology of them which make them a bit tricky to place. Some help with diagnosis and maybe advice on what to do next would be much appreciated.

Prior to the arising of each experience, I had (and still have) a fairly heavy home practice of 2 hours of seated meditation a day balanced between concentration practices and a 'choiceless-awareness' style practice, which a bit of magic peppered on the sides.

The first experience seems very much an arising and passing away.
- Very potent kundalini experience, the likes of which I hadn't experienced or have experienced since (kundalini experiences weren't uncommon for me, this was *big*). Slow build up, rapidly intensifying to a grand sense of 'I am that I am' at the top and then *bang*
- After the explosion, a huge chunk of unprocessed psychological gunk just seemed to peel off, almost immediately.
- Not exactly sure of my state over the weeks afterwards, though there was certainly a fair degree of residual unhingedness from the experience, as well as some dark night style symptoms arising.


The second experience came a couple of months later. I had continued to practice at a similar level of intensity.
- I was sat meditating and took the sense of self/default focal point of awareness/ahamkara as my object. Sat for an hour following it around.
- Nothing much happened during the session, but when I walked outside, the intuitive understanding of 'If I can look at the ahamkara as the object, it cannot be the subject' sank in very hard. As this happened, my normal state of awareness ballooned to a big bubble, with the awareness of all the objects in the bubble exactly co-located with the objects. --> very standard non-dual stuff, but it seemed dramatic as it hadn't happened before in such a way.
- Since then, it's been very straightforward to access non-dual experience and I regularly explore it in both practice and just walking around. The falling away of the subject certainly hit home the no self and a lot of the impermanence material, which now just seem obvious, which feels a bit first pathy-.

Now, my confusion:
Following experience number two, dark night symptoms continued to arise for quite a while afterwards and even intensified for a time, before dropping off a few months later. This would imply to me that I'd just had an A&P event or two.
BUT, unless I'm mistaken, stable access to non-dual/non-local states and heavier duty insight into no-self shouldn't be available at that point (am I mistaken on this?).

Anyone got any wisdom on a) what to diagnose this mess as or b) any good ideas on what to do?
shargrol, modified 8 Months ago at 8/12/23 6:46 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 8/12/23 6:34 AM

RE: Some help diagnosing this would be appreciated

Posts: 2413 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
Definitely 1) A&P and probably 2) EQ. 

People forget how EQ is very very very close to awakening and offers a lot of the same insights. It feels like "the answer" in a lot of ways. It's also common to fall back into dark night again and some people mis-judge this as "oh, now I must be working on second path". But there is often a lot of cleaning up to do after the first profound experience of EQ This might be relevant: Shargrol's Posts Compilation (shargrolpostscompilation.blogspot.com) 

To get good practice advice on what to do next, you would have provide more info on the details of your practice: what you do, what happens during a sit, what has happened over the last few months, where your cutting edge is, what continues to give you problems, etc.
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Jackson Wilshire, modified 8 Months ago at 8/12/23 9:20 AM
Created 8 Months ago at 8/12/23 9:20 AM

RE: Some help diagnosing this would be appreciated

Posts: 443 Join Date: 5/6/09 Recent Posts
I agree with shargrol. The second experience sounds a lot like the equanimity stage (11th ñana). I would hesitate to refer to the experience as "very standard non-dual stuff," because (to me, anyway) the experience you described does not sound like realziation of non-dual awareness. The sense of self as a container for experience, coupled with a serious reduction in grasping, aversion, and indifference, seems to thin the perception of duality, but not entirely. This is more of a state based on the condions of practice, and not so much the natural state, so to speak. Hence the re-emergence of cycles. 

From the 11th ñana point of view, it can be helpful to inquire into the state itself. "Will grasping at this lead to awakening? Will pushing this away lead to awakening? Will choosing not to see this clearly lead to awakening?" Intuitively, the answer ends up being "no." Allowing your intuitions to see this clearly can allow the last little bit of clinging to drop. 

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