Hi everyone!

It's been a while since posting and want to get my log going again.

Since starting practice fear has always been very intense, to the point where im getting cold sweats and waking up at night. Luckily medication helps and it's allowing me to live my life with some relief. However despite the relief there is a deep frustration that this relief and well being is dependent on something, the meds. This is my fuel to continue my practice. I want lasting happiness that isn't dependent on anything!

So since restarting practice i feel alot more kind, compassionate and loving. Not only because i feel like im doing something for myself and fellow human but because i know others just want the same as me and that's to be happy.

My sits are now longer too as I've opted for the couch as my hip gets really painful after 45min.

Tonight's sit 75min. Noting and gentle noticing. It started very much in the body, very jumpy, edgey vibrations, nervous, fearful (as per usual). Attention then shifted to space in front of the forehead, I sat with this and enjoyed it for a bit. Peace, ease, contentment. Attention then shifted to the centre of the head, the image of myself hat usually accompanies me in the mental space is gone. Somewhere in the midst of this it felt like the body was being flushed out from the top of the head, further dissolving any fear left behind. After a while though everything was really plain and boring. There was a self that wanted a bit of drama.

This is something that is coming up in daily life. Theres restlessness when experience is plain and boring and craving for something more exciting, which I find interesting. Maybe this craving for drama is linked to the fear somehow, I don't know? Will investigate further.

So im starting to remember something now. It reminds me of being very young and lying in bed feeling the vast stillness around me and being scared shitless. It's that vacuity that I'm scared of and I shouldn't be. I remember dreams of me trying to run away from it but thats where I need to go. I notice that that stillness is always there in the background and it ties everything together, it's something I can rely on. The need for an antagonist to be apart of a drama is so exhausting and painful, I need to let go of that.

That presence of emptiness is still beautiful. Drama still unfolds around me, theres no need to be apart of it. Its like appreciating a flower but not picking it.

I need to read and study emptiness more. Like really get off my ass and study this stuff properly.

I need patience. Fear is the result of past causes and conditions. With the right conditions it can dissolve. At the same time it is the fear that drives the motivation for liberation, how is it that bad? Paradoxical. So maybe I'm fearful because I want to overcome fear itself. Maybe I want to become fearless.

A statement keeps coming up in my head "live by the sword, die by the sword." There are moments throughout the day where the mind wishes ill will on someone and this could be a catalyst for this fear. With a purified mind and the intention to be skilful and wholesome there would be no basis to be fearful.

https://suttacentral.net/mn4/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=plain&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin

There's a part in the discourse that says:

"Then I thought, ‘There are ascetics and brahmins with unpurified conduct of body, speech, and mind who frequent remote lodgings in the wilderness and the forest. Those ascetics and brahmins summon unskillful fear and dread because of these defects in their conduct. That is, their guilt will manifest as fear. Throughout this sutta, the Buddha emphasizes that fear is overcome by the proper development of the path, which leads to confidence and strength of mind. This is in implicit contrast to the notion that one overcomes fear by either brute endurance and force of will or by magical spells and charms.But I don’t frequent remote lodgings in the wilderness and the forest with unpurified conduct of body, speech, and mind. My conduct is purified. I am one of those noble ones who frequent remote lodgings in the wilderness and the forest with purified conduct of body, speech, and mind.’ Seeing this purity of conduct in myself I felt even more unruffled about staying in the forest."

Maybe that's what I'm doing, maybe I'm unknowingly summoning this fear.

Fear has subsided and now misery has come up. I've told myself so many LIES. There's a desperate agent trying to find some peace and is just looking in the wrong places. You think you're doing a good thing by telling yourself stories. "A good person should feel like this etc". What absolute rubbish. Everything I've told myself was my intention no one elses and its one that hasn't given me lasting happiness. Unskillful action.

​​​​​​​Trauma is empty too

This sounds good Jure.  

Pretty big insight for me shargrol, thanks.

Tonight I sat I think for over an hour, cycling from reobservation to equanimity fairly quickly it was close to a cessation, there were a couple of close calls but no big kahuna. I'd go into reobservation, note a little, reach equanimity, note a little and then try to forget im there, lol.

Elation was coming up and that has been something that swept me up in the past but not this time. There was a moment where I pictured a woman with an elephant trunk and i was thinking oh wow one of those bodhisattvas and then an image of batman came up, lol.

Meditation: come for the insights, stay because of the comedy!

The understanding of emptiness is developing and I'm applying it in daily life. This is a very important step for me. Most of my practice has been focused on the cushion and I see emptiness of self easily on the cushion but now I want to see it all the time with people while in conversation etc. Letting go of old behavioural patterns seeing the emptiness of them and my reactions while doing my thing in everyday life.

Doubt and uncertainty setting in. I'm not going into the story. I know if I sit right now I'll be fine but why am I not fine now, why do i have to sit to be good? The thing that happened I watched it happen, I let it happen, it was just past causes and conditions. I can see the cycle happening with friends and family. The thing I find is that if I'm empty of self then others are too. If I'm not empty of self neither are others. The past causes and conditions just bring me back into a sense of self but I also know, atleast to some capacity, that the past is empty too. 

I have the damn insight, I just need to apply it. Its so funny how I thought that if I did insight practice that everything will be good, the fear would disappear etc. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK 

What can I do to see the noself in me and others while communicating?

Just some thoughts from me... definitely disregard if they don't sound relevant...

I would question whether the linking of yourself to others in such a direct way is the solution. To me, it seems like being responsible for my own reactions while letting others do whatever they do has been the most sane way to go. People inherit their own karma, afterall. 

The thing that I found most helpful is the idea that "what has happened has already passed". When I can let go of my greed, aversion, or indifference as soon as it arises, it does seem to help others do the same --- but it doesn't make it happen. Being around me give people a little more "space" to let things go, because I'm not so reactive and I don't contribute to the craziness, It's still up to them. Crazy still happens.

To some extent, it does make sense not to react to others greed, aversion, or indifference... but we also do need appropriate boundaries between ourselves and others. Codependency (where our sense of self is overly-defined by other's attention/opinion of us) is a real thing. I found these ideas fascinating... (I find a lot of therapy books interesting and can see how subtle versions of clinical problems show up in the mind of a meditator. It's not as extreme as, let's say, the mind of a child of an alcoholic, but the dynamic is similar in a nearly but not entirely healthy mind.) 
The Therapeutic Genius of Pia Mellody | The Meadows
Facing Codependence: What It Is, Where It Comes from, How It Sabotages Our Lives: Mellody, Pia, Miller, Andrea Wells, Miller, J. Keith: 9780062505897: Amazon.com: Books

Focusing on "noself" might be a subtle form of aversion, depending on how you define it. Some people "spiritually bypass" by, in a sense, thinking "all of this is noself so I don't need to really pay attention or respond to what's happening. It really doesn't matter."  

"Emptiness" can be used the same way, but non-bypassing emptiness -- which is the insight that things are neither exactly as they seem nor completely different from how they seem -- has a way of respecting how things are, while also knowing that there is uncertainty and imperminance. Even if we "know" this moment correctly, there's nothing guaranteeing that that will continue to be right/same in the next moment.  Even if this moment "is" a particular way, the future is free to become something completely different. This makes life less heavy and and supports much more creativity.

But all of this is my thoughts, feel free to ignore!

Thanks shargrol.

​​​​​​​Yes I was referring to the non bypassing emptiness, which i think is a clearer/deeper understanding of emptiness. I was thinking of maybe practising active listening keeping in mind the person I'm conversing with is empty and only doing and acting in a way that they feel is beneficial for themselves due to their past causes and conditions. Essentially just another being/organism like myself, empty, that's looking for the ending of suffering and wanting comfort, peace and happiness, they have good intentions. Sometimes it's hard because I know that they're looking in the wrong place but again that's a wrong view because im not taking into account their karma and past causes and conditions.


Is this a skilful way of seeing emptiness in me and others?

Will look into co dependency more.

Ahhh I see the issue. If we justify everything as "no self" Then we allow ourselves to justify being with people that are no "good" for us. We in actual fact have to practice setting boundaries and being with people that bring the best in us. So it's not bad if you don't like someone but always try to practice a bit of respect towards them regardless.

Maybe saying not liking people is a bit negative. Lets say there are people that are good for us and others that don't bring the best out in us.

I don't know, I'm trying to get this, its something that's on my mind quite often actually. I find myself going back and forth between this person is nice and this person isnt nice and i dont know where to stand. I think i feel guilty for not liking some people.

Either way I'm glad I've come to a realisation that this is something that's holding me back in my life.

I was upset but then started reading other contributors practice logs. One person in particular has always stuck out for me. The amount of detail he can recollect and the detail in which it's done, along with the consistency amazes me. Once i saw and realised what's possible I became happy and grateful regardless of my conditions. So I've managed to just stop now. Thinking over it more i see that its this sense of urgency thats caused by aversion to my current experience. There's this sense that where I am in my practice is not good enough, I expect more. I should be further down the path then this. There's a need for perfection, a striving. I have to remind myself what the practice is, arent we just observing, without resistance? Ok enough of this, time to practice.


60 min sit, maybe a little more. There was uncertainty, this showed up as queasiness in the tummy. The stomach made noises and did a bunch of somersaults. Then there was a strong dislike, this presented itself in the face, chest and tummy and very much down the centre. As if it was splitting the body in 2 or as if the body was inverting itself down the centre, maybe like a recoiling. This brought up images of something that happened at work. There is a customer that comes in and stands there watching me work. I've told him and the boss i dont like it yet it's happened again. After that anger presented itself, uncertainty again and then shame or guilt. I sat with that guilt and said this is not your fault. Uncertainty arose again, this time I said accept that we don't know how things are going to turn out and we don't have to have an expectation for how it's going to go. Big sigh of relief, tummy, chest face clear.

Then it went back to uncertainty, not knowing what im doing in my practice. Questioning, am i getting anywhere. Doubting. Then questioning what can I say to make people believe I'm practising well, looking for praise, wanting some sort of recognition. Sat with that and eventually let go of that, another big sigh of relief tummy chest, face clear. Sensations at the top of scalp.

Nicely done!!

Just to second shargrol with nicely done! Yeah going into the body sensations and then spreading out the investigation into the feeling tone, mind states etc ... nice!  

Best wishes to you Jure! 

Thanks dudes.


Practice while at work.


Misery, regret, theres this sense of self that thinks he is failing miserably. Trauma cycle is clearer now though. There's an aversion that arises in my current experience this can arise through, misery, anger, guilt or fear in relation to whatever worldly thing is going on. Then there's a sense of urgency to fix those things, so I start to meditate only to learn theres nothing to fix. Then fear arises of forgetting "this" so more effort is applied to practice. All attempts to change "this" are futile. Things are how they are. Theres also embarrassment, "I should know this" Then the negative self talk that accompanies the sense of failure and again a urgency arises to practice. So identifying with the embarrassment, urgency, fear of forgetting. Then a aversion to chaos and a craving for clarity, for order, to undersrand everything clearly. Aversion to doubt and if I can see my way out of this chaos.


Now there's a sense that I'm good at this, I'm getting it, confidence, waiting, now there's expectation for something, realisation that nothing has to happen, now questioning. Sleepy, waiting, questioning what's next? Content, peaceful.


Theres now doubt and uncertainty about my health, will I ever get off medication, will I heal? Theres no answer. Peaceful that theres no answer. The mind is tired of everything, it's fed up, it's disgusted in everything it doesn't want anything. It finds objects repulsive almost. Peace and content again, it's sick of that too. There's a longing now, like a aching of something that's not a conditioned mind state whatever it is it aversion to whats happening now. Angry. Longing again, understanding I have to let go of longing, upset but now clarity that this is it. Longing is not nesscessary. Again questioning, where does this end? Ok a need for clarity now, to understand things more, misery that I need to let go of needing to "know". Confidence that I get it, Pride. Understanding that's bullshit not going to give me lasting happiness because it's conditioned. Seeing that my relaxed state is conditioned too by medication. So theres now doubt that any of this practice is doing anything, uncertainty. Realised I was triggered by a video I saw. A teacher said if you still have fear and anxiety then you need to spend more time on the cushion. That triggered the sense of urgency and restarted all this. Doubt if I've attained anything, again it wants to start. This is my trauma cycle. It starts with a negative mind state and then an aversion towards that mindstate and the need for the moment to be something different then what it is.


I'm just repeating myself now. But I can also see how this moment led to that moment and why all these experiences happened in my life and how they're all linked to the core trauma which was repeated over long period of time and i know what it is now. I can see that they're all different mind states and experiences but the same reaction to all of them. Also I'm able to see this because im taking my medication, so that just goes to show you how important it is to take it and that you can still work through your stuff while you're on it. But I also know there's a way out of the trauma cycle and that's by being in the present moment without wanting to change anything.


Now there's questioning, wanting to know and understand. What is awakening, where is this self that cycles through this stuff and obviously stages of insight, where is solidity that experiences these stages. Curiosity, wonder, fantasy, sleepy, sleepy, very tired. Small amonts of aversion to not understanding, to confusion and uncertainty. Im tired, I know I need to let go of knowing how things happen and why they happen the way they do but theres still this self that clings to curiousity and wanting to know. It wants to be able to explain it. Theres striving, alot of striving, very tired, so theres a subtle aversion to be with what is happening now and tired. Tension in the head, feel yuk and exhausted, aversion to that too. I guess working takes it out of you, need to rest but not as much aversion.


On the way home, the tension and disgust some what dissolved and I am able to rest a bit. Meaning I don't feel like I have to know everything that arises, I don't care. so I guess the craving is slowly giving up and I'm relaxing more and more. Still aversion to aching body and being in the car and wanting to be on the couch to rest. There's really no clear progression through insight stages here, it's all over the place


Sat for 60min just resting, observing expansion and contraction. Feeling yuk and have a head ache now.

Out of curiousity, is this actually meditation practice or is it observing your body/mind while working?

The reason I ask is that doing a lot of investigation while also working can be very exhausting (and then there is no energy for the kind of productive practice during formal sits). 



This is a hint that less effort is probably appropriate. You really don't need to know everything that arises to make progress. Meditation doesn't go well when there is "heroic" effort. In fact, a lot of the time, a heroic effort takes out of the actual lived experience of the present moment and into a mental drama about the past and the future. 

Just looking at your day for example, sounds like you spent a lot of time with a very busy mind, a very conceptual mind, in the attempt to get out of your very busy mind. It's interesting how that's our instinctual and normal approach -- but seeing it clearly, it becomes obvious that there has to be another way. Don't pile more wood on a fire that is already burning too hot!

In general, if the mind is busy, relax the body, soften the breath and make yourself "sigh" on the outbreath ("ahhh...."). In contrast, if the mind is dull, energize the posture by straightening the spine and lifting your chin up, and take just a tiny bit more intentional breaths.

Instead, imagine if you simply went to work and were totally Zen : you felt your body as you worked and connected with the sights and touch of your work, you did your job giving it full-yet-balanced attention as if the actions of working was a meditation in itself, staying relaxed yet aware. And when thoughts about past and future came up, you said "I see you thoughts about the past" and "I see you thoughts about the future" but didn't try to fix or analyze them.

In this way, work is a different kind of practice than sitting practice, it's practicing mindful in-the-moment action, and you are using your day to train letting go of unnecessary tension and drama. And then when you get home, you can to proper noting practice and productively note sensations, emotions, and thoughts, thus making a bit of progress each day.


Hopefully these ideas are helpful. The important thing is to learn how to balance real life and meditation practice and find ways to objectively see what is helpful and what causes more problems. There is no one that can "teach" this, we have to discover it in our own lives. 

Most of the time, we waste opportunities off cushion by not connecting with the simplicity of the present moment. And we waste opportunities on the cushion by trying too hard and not doing a simple practice that notes/notes sensations, emotions, and thoughts AS sensations, emotions, and thoughts.  You simply let expereince arise during the sit --- whatever comes up --- and your job is to note one sensation or emotion or thought about 10 times a minute, one note with each outbreath. Sounds too good to be true, yet this simple practice allows the natural intellegence of the mind to see what it needs to see to let go of what is dukka and relax into nibbana. We learn to let experience arise as it will, we have a full experience of what is happens, but it also let it naturally go away as it will. When experiences aren't clinged to, they "nibbana" (extinquish) naturally. And when most of our experience behaves this way, then we are living in nibbana.

Of course there are lots of nanas and jhanas and paths that also happens, but those are almost side effects of good, basic practice. Progress happens from allowing things to arise and pass, while being gently and naturally mindful of it. No ignoring, but no indulging either. Very simple and natural... but it takes practice. 

It's the basics that are most important and then simple, consistent, daily, non-heroic practice is possible.  Once the basics of life/practice are understood, then progress can happen quickly. But if you get the basic wrong and try to force/fix things or use a lot of conceptual thinking etc etc. then we just are like a car spinning its tires on gravel -- lots of power and energy and smoke and fumes, but no progress. 


Hope this is helpful in some way, definitely ignore if it doesn't help.

Hey shargrol, yes it was exhausting, wasn't pleasant that's for sure. There is alot of conflicting information out there and I don't know what's what. I have heard of people noting all day so it didn't sound like it was a bad idea.

I have had experiences at work and outside of work, many times, where I melt into the environment. Also had unknowing experiences, blinking in and out while cutting some steel or welding and these all happened when I was very absorbed, relaxed and not practising. That way of being comes very natural to me, I can immerse myself into doing/action very well. I used to carve wood as a child and I loved not knowing what I was doing, I was just carving the wood and enjoying it. I became enjoyment. But then there's this other side that says you have to note everything, you have to note to get there. Another point I'd like to make is I don't like reading much. I like to try stuff in real life and see what happens so I don't want to read another book or listen to some podcast to tell me something instead I'd rather test and experiment. Yes I know books are great and they teach you stuff but thats not how I really like to learn.

Part of the log is also to get advice on what im doing as i dont have a teacher, however i would like one to kick me up the ass from time to time. So thank you for telling me this. It makes sense and its nice to know that I know what to do already. Less effort more enjoyment.

Throughout the past couple of days there has been a dropping of conceptual understanding so I was just doing stuff like mowing the grass, doing the laundry and dishes by paying attention to movement today. Very grateful that i didnt forget how to be. 60 min sit. Stillness, relaxed, body was vacant of emotion,  imagery of family & friends, remembered dreams, memories were felt as a vibration, accompanied by visual images of being a teenager, tingling on top of head, I think there was a vague cycling of first path, didn't try to understand it much. There was also a little fear, vast spaciousness in front of me opening up, small amounts of aversion, boredom.

45 min. In the body, sinking feeling in the stomach, images of people with angry faces, guilt, perpetrator, heart palpitations, body twitching. Defiance, images of me with the "I didn't do shit face". Then being a saviour, hero, helping. Tension in shoulder blades, pains throughout body, aching, image of body with spears through it, blood gushing out of wounds. The body was aching but they were separate little aches throughout the body, like wounds. Image of a knight with armour, bewilderment, excitement more heart palpitations, mind was trying to conceptually understand stuff, everything murky, not clear. There was a noticeable crossing through something. Love, images of beautiful people, deer's running in the forest, lush green fields, bright sun. Still sore body and couldn't concentrate any more stopped at 45min. A couple hours after im feeling relaxed.

Today was incredibly laborious filled with a lot of suffering. I was exhausted when i got home and practice was very dull, I managed 45min. I suspect i didnt get a good nights rest last night so a good night's rest tonight is needed. 

Everything feels very laborious and I know I'm very much in the suffering insight stages It's funny how I think oh I feel good, maaaaaybe the suffering is gone? Oh ok it's back, arent I an idiot for thinking it's gone, haha. Past few days I've been feeling very drained and fatigued. I'd like to zen out during the day but I just didn't have that option the past few days, mind was noisy with alot of "stuff" coming up while at work. I don't go into the content but still very tiring. By the time i get home im exhausted, I manage a 45 min sit but I'm virtually asleep at the end of it. The weekend is here now though so I can take it really easy and get some proper practice.

60min practice tonight, I have more energy tonight but not alot. Started with noting emotions that came up in the mental space. Abandonment, people pleasing, confusion, anger, honesty, determination, questioning, searching, striving, dullness, aversion, suffering then moved into the body and there still was a lot of aching pain and aversion, it opened up a little but still very much present. Currently I feel very much sick of all this, honestly. Very much desire for deliverance stage. I'm going to practice a little before I drift off to sleep.

I look through my log and at the start I can very much see how i was suffering and didn't want things to be the way they were, (however "I" didnt know that was happening) this resistance builds up until I go hang on this stuff again, then it slowly starts to let go and see everything as impermanent, no self and unsatisfactory. I'm happy that I remember but I realise you can't forget that, the mind will naturally see the resistance now and eventually click and begin to let go, it's learnt that.


I feel like the insight stages or the knowledges are being learnt in daily life then when i sit I go into jhana and I rest. When I meditate the mind very much solidifies the states of rest and amplifies them. During the day the mind is going through what it goes through and then the knowledge of insight is happening. I don't know if this is good or bad and if I can or should do anything about it. I have read about bleed through a little, maybe I should read more.

For example today I started the sit and the body had a jarring vibration, like nails on a chalk board, very disgusting, this is reob stage. I sit with that vibration and observe it, this then changes to a pleasant sensation throughout the body, space in the head then eventually formless states. I try to note these states but the mind doesn't want to, it wants to rest. Maybe I note the jhanas outloud, I don't know. At the same time I don't know what to note, I don't know what the object is. Is it space, awareness, I'm not entirely sure. I know it's not the body or mind because they're very much in the background, very far away. 

I've read that people become jhana junkies but I feel like im still progressing through stages of insight and the unknowing events, cessations have happened in daily life.

I've been reading shargrols compilation of posts and dullness is ok. I just need to let the mind do its thing. I'm grateful for those posts shargrol, thanks.

Cool! yeah, if you investigate the nature of dullness, make a study of it, then you're still doing vipassina. Sitting up more erect, raising your chin just a little higher, and breathing with a bit more intention can also help balance energy/attention levels to somewhat energize the dullness. 

Today at work I noticed insight knowledges arising especially maybe half way through the day was equanimity. Sometimes I can mistake it for being insensitive but it's just the minds natural inclination to remain level. I kind of think of it as a bubble in a level, you move the level around and the bubble moves a little but it comes back in the centre. NO dullness! Even when i got home and practiced, there was no dullness. This time I WAS cycling through insight stages on the cushion, there was an A&P, then dukkha Nana's, mostly disgust, I attempted to penetrated the disgust and misery and it came back, I did it again and then I just said fuck it whatever, I just dropped the intention to do anything and pop equanimity! I had some teenage memories, dim lights underneath eyelids. There were moments when it felt like the observer locked onto a object, as if it were about to merge. Then restarting cycle

I'm actually having fun now that I'm understanding knowledges better, it's really cool that I notice how the mind changes its attitude as it learns a different knowledge. Yay.

Nice!!

Once you are in this zone, you really have to trust your instincts and trust that whatever shows up is supposed to be there. Just take delight in being curious about what the mind displays. No need to "penetrate" the mind objects -- that's very A&P type investigation. For EQ, it's much more playful.

Don't be surprised if some of your "old issues" start popping up at times. The mind/psyche feels safe now and so sometimes these old worries/concerns/memories will bubble up into consciousness. They just want to be seen/felt and so just taking delight in being curious about what the mind displays is all that's needed.

Thanks shargrol : )

The past few days my sits have ranged from dull and tired, to just "normal" almost feeling like I'm not meditating even though I'm sitting, to sits where some "stuff" is coming up. There isn't a big urge to post in my log. There is equanimity throughout the day but some days I'm feeling fidgety. So I guess it's just the cycle of going through reob to equanimity again and again. During the day I notice the mind "lagging" I'm not quiet sure how to describe it but lagging sounds like a decent description. I'd say this is the mind seeing "gaps". Other weird stuff happening that I believe to be meditation related are, ear drums pulsating and eye lids or eye balls trembling haha it just happens too often to think it's anything else. 

My sits are really plain. Very flat line kind of vibration, some "stuff" does come up but the flat line is ever present. I kinda feel like im not meditating, I believe this to be equanimity.

Ive done, 2 posts in a short time to make up for the past couple of days.

Tonights sit, 45 min sit, equanimity very much present focused on sensation of my lips then went into jhana. The contraction where the mind usually is disappeared and went kinda everywhere, there wasn't any specific location, I've experienced this before but now it just makes more sense, this is what they mean when they say there is no mind. images and talk still happens but it's not coming from an agent now it just comes up from somewhere. Pretty cool.

I feel like crap now, haha.

So maybe that was an A&P and now im feeling disgust and misery. I don't know 

Last night's sit was very much A&P type stuff, some psychological stuff coming up after that sit, humiliation, embarrassment, abandonment. I kept my cool, I've been through all this many times, fell asleep like a log.
I sat for 45min tonight, arising and passing type vibrations again headspace hollow, no mind. Then attention was all over the place, confusion, no clarity, shit going everywhere and then a taste of equanimity at the end. I currently feel ok, a little startled but I know it now and the body isn't resisting stuff as much, it kinda "understands". Having said that, more "shit" is probably going to come up.

40min sit tonight, again it starts with A&P type stuff then awareness contracts into negative thoughts. Arguments, bla bla bla. A little equanimity then cycles back through.

Alot of suffering seems to have gone, ptsd like stuff has really mellowed out. I don't know what's happening, I'd say equanimity type territory but stuff still comes up but also very relaxed, not reactive.

I think it's important to note though that im eating better. From a very young age i never had breakfast, id wait until lunch and on days off I'd only have 1 meal. This became natural, I was never hungry but it did put me in some emotional turmoil. So now I'm having 3 meals a day and the body feels much better.

PTSD stuff is still there, all good, game face is on now. I take a couple of medications, 1 of them I take only when the body needs it and it seems as though it's worn off now. The time frame that I dont need it though is getting wider and wider so something is working. I'm also not sweating during my sleep, which is nice. I don't know if I should take it earlier and avoid allowing the symptoms to come up at all, and instead focus on awakening? It looks like im working through PTSD stuff and awakening together.

So i forgot to mention that i have vivid dreams of me in certain situations and then realising in the dream that whatever is happening isn't true. I think this is a sign that the mind body is working and processing trauma.

Suffering coming up, restlessness and agitated. Alot of compulsive internet browsing. I'd say the suffering has come as a result of the ptsd symptoms surfacing. The previous 2 nights I sat for 1 hour. Tonights sit was 45min and again a reob, frustration, anger, rage and then equanimity. After the sit I'm feeling reactive and upset, kinda like a child throwing a tantrum.

I think maybe next time I will take the meds a little earlier so that I can get more time in equanimity because hanging out in reob alot of the time is just fucking shit.

If it's SSRI you are taking best is to take them at the same time every day.
I take mine with the breakfast every day. SSRI is not taken when you need calming down. For that other meds is used. Ask your doc about it. 

Also, fuck Equanimity  
Nothing wrong with Re-observation. Investigate what's actually here right now. If that is "wishing to get asap to equanimity because re-obs sucks" well then >unpack< it!  

Look for all the parts making up this experience: body sensations, feeling tone, mind states, mind imaginations, thoughts ... soak into this with honest curiosity. Good science is good observation (or good re-observation)  

Beat wishes Jure! 

(btw, do the investigative work on the cushion but dont forget to relax and just live your life off the cushion. Do your hobbies and that you enjoy. No reason to hammer yourself off the cushion. 45-60 minutes a day of honest batter of fact curious soaking into the experience and unpacking its components is far better than lingering on thinking about the experience). 

I hope my post is of benefit and not confusion. 

There's a lot of truth in that. The dark night is our teacher. It's really the only way we get trained to drop our resistances to experience and learn to observe objectively and accept what is already occurring within the mind. We learn to love our imperfect mind as it is... and ironically when we do that, it automatically becomes a little more perfect. Strange, but it seems to be how it works.

Hey papa! I take my SSRI regularly but I take something else that doesn't require taking it as regularly. Tbh I could maybe just go higher with my SSRI and drop the other thing im taking but it works so I don't want to change anything and risk screwing it up.

Haha, yeah i know you're right and thats what i am doing i just don't want to suffer needlessly, hence why I want to take that other medication before symptoms arise. If the reob comes while medicated adequately then that's fine, I've done everything I can to not suffer as much. Having said all that yes I agree, unpacking it is the bomb!
Thanks for reminding me with enjoying daily life, I try and do that as best I can, I do however get cranky at times.
Your input is always appreciated bro, thank you!

Ok, I'll get my shit together, haha. Your advice is appreciated, thank you shargrol 

Let me share with you something; 

Im supposed to be a 2nd Path (creeping like a snail towards 3rd) and I get cranky every day for at least a bit. With my kids, my partner, my boss, world situation , with my crankiness, etc ... fucking rain and mosquitos can get me going any who. If you ask shargrol he might share if he gets cranky or reactive in his daily life! I assume he does. 

However, arisen stuff lasts shorter and there is more seeing it and less clinging to it as the moments really arise-pass so fast. One starts to wonder "why do I feel as if my suffering goes through time and lasts, if all experience vanishes so fucking fast?!!" 

What is THAT which seems to go through time? What time? Who? How? 

Hi Papa. Thanks for normalising the crankiness. I notice things passing quicker now too, it just loses its power and dissipates which is nice, I don't know what number path I'm on, that's fine. I have no idea what it is that is passing through time and i dont know what "I" am. There are images of me moving through space but I don't know what space is. I don't know what time is. I don't know what awareness is. I can't put a finger on any of it. I suppose you're not supposed to, maybe. But I know when there's pain, then "i" suffer. Ahhh right ok

Ok. so when there is pain "I" suffer. 

Let's say there is pain in my neck. It's very stiff. Stiff sharp pain. If looking at all the body sensations, feeling tones, mind states, thinking, mind images that surround this painful stiff neck experience, then where is the "I" suffering in all that? Look and investigate! 
Then report back. 

Take any pain that isn't too crazy painful for such investigation. 

Best wishes! 

Ok so I asked, who is it that is experiencing this right now? There wasn't much pain, some stuff came up and I just asked that same question, who is it that experiences that and where is the one that is suffering? It eventually got really dreamy and it went into pre and post cessation like stuff which ive had before. I like asking that question, really directs me to it.

So I have questions,


What do I do now?


Do I keep asking the question in the dreamy section? It just gets really trippy, like I don't know who's asking it and it all kinda gets enveloped by other sensations if that makes sense


Is this 2nd path? I feel like 1st path was just noting like crazy and then everything closing down around me, maybe the small sense that object and observer merge. 2nd is the mind has an object and that merges with an observer clearer.


Maybe I should put this in claims to attainments or maybe I could do a search.


Thank you

Or is it a good idea to do a little research and read more about what constitutes 1st, 2nd path that way im in a better position to know what to do. A part of me just wants to know the theoretical stuff behind it all.

To answer my own questions, what i do in the really dreamy part is note very gently and then it goes into a fruition. Fruition being the post cessation thing.

I want to know though if that is 1st or 2nd path because the cessations experience was very different to when i first experienced it. I do remember stopping practice after the first experience of cessations, getting therapy etc then restarting and experiencing them again but in a slightly different way. So im going to do a bit of research 

1 hour sit asking who is here experiencing all this. At the start theres an image of me and this is superimposed with the sensations of the body. Then there may arise a thought, again no sense of someone having a thought, just thought and then awareness returns to this image and body feel. I'm thinking this is the perceived witness. Eventually image and body of witness dissolved and was replaced by pleasant and dreamy feelings. So I asked who is enjoying this sit, where is the entity that enjoys this, who is this dreamy state happening to? There was this sense that something lunged towards an object. But the lunging and the object are both objects.

Then I asked what is it that's clinging to this fine state of being if it's even happening at all? What is the thing that clings or lunges? I might sit again tonight and just notice quietly what's happening. I really like this method of practice, who is it that really likes that, what is a method? Thanks Papa

edit:
Sat for another 40min. Witness was present then kinda got vague and displaced. Kinda feel jumpy and yuk now. 

Nice! Yeah "who is lunging at an object?" I call this "mind jerk" as in jerking towards something. 

It's an interesting practice. An object arises and passes and then there is "some kind of fast moving force of attention lunging towards" that which was experienced. 

This is very important. What is this jerky attention going after stuff? It's a bit like dog chasing it's own tail! Or trying to look back at its own face. Or rather something like that. Just a gentle investigation. No need to weigh into it too heavy. Mind-body seeing Mind-body. Getting to know thy (not)self. 

Gentle steady curious investigation. 

Best wishes! 

The mind jerk thing was weird. It was as if the mind jerk itself was shown as a thought, like a shadowy thing lurching forward. So I notice during the day and sitting practice that theres a toggling kinda thing happening between a "witness" and thought. What I call a "witness" is a mental image of my face superimposed on the sensations of a physical body. The thought is just a thought, clear and known as it is, very immediate. It then goes to a witness, like hey I'm guarding this being, or watching or whatever. Now the witness I guess is also known as it is and is just as immediate but theres a tendency to think why is it always going back to a sense of self? Or is it? This witness eventually dissolves, in fact as soon as I focus on a point in my head it seems to displace or become very vague. Basically, I'm not sure if it's there or not any more.

Tonight i sat for 80min, it was a murky sit, everything felt out of place and vague. Nothing was really clear and the witness was very much present most of the time except for a few moments, some clarity came in out of no where. I tried to ask who is experiencing this but it was as if everything just got lost or tangled up and I didn't know what I was asking and who was asking it. Either way I still sat through it all experiencing the vagueness.

Felt misery throughout most of the day. When it came time to sit I set a timer for an hour but stopped at 45min. Alot of body pain, aching, tension and aversion. I asked the question who is experiencing this pain and everytime I ask that alot of clarity comes because there is no answer. Peace then came and I asked who was experiencing the peace and a knee jerk reaction thought just came in saying "source", it could have been "sauce" though too, lol.

Sitting everyday for over an hour. This idea that I have to go through more paths so that i can heal from ptsd keeps coming up and takes me on a little ride. Also trying to figure out what path im on out of curiosity and then BAM i gotcha!! Then light bulb moment, oh ok this is just suffering again and I can just drop it right now. Another point in regard to the ptsd symptoms is that the body is only doing what it was taught to do, theres nothing wrong with it, it's not inherently broken. The body will adjust when it wants or needs too.

So practice is consisting of noticing stuff in the body and watching how a sense of self co-arises. The one the suffers, or the one that is dreamy, the one that thinks I'm in this or that path etc. It's all just suffering that weighs me down, the beauty is though is that I can drop it! Sometimes of course I'm getting caught up and this is the nature of suffering I suppose, at least for me atm. I really want to learn to just drop it as soon as it arises, even if it arises multiple times over a short period of time I want to be able to see it and drop it.

The mind has this tendency to pick up bits of information while reading etc and then proliferate another story that involves "me". Its so frustrating and its the same thing over and over.

Nice!