Joseph Goldstein lineage exploration

David M, modified 7 Months ago at 9/5/23 10:48 AM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/5/23 10:42 AM

Joseph Goldstein lineage exploration

Posts: 38 Join Date: 8/10/23 Recent Posts
IMS founders Joseph Goldstein and Sharon Salzberg are  stepping back from day-to-day operations. Maybe Joseph Goldstein is ready to reveal more about what goes on in "the back rooms" of IMS? i.e. Progress of Insight?
​​​​​​​https://ims.dharma.org/courses/benefit-ajahn-amaro
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Ben V, modified 7 Months ago at 9/5/23 12:05 PM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/5/23 12:05 PM

RE: Joseph Goldstein lineage exploration

Posts: 417 Join Date: 3/3/15 Recent Posts
I might join. Curious about the part of ''how both the Ajhan Chah lineage and Mahasi lineaage' has shaped their understanding of Nibbana''. 

​​​​​​​Concerning the POI, I think Joseph has a talk on that in Dharmaseeds, certainly one on the ''vipassana jhanas''. 
David M, modified 7 Months ago at 9/5/23 2:26 PM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/5/23 2:26 PM

RE: Joseph Goldstein lineage exploration

Posts: 38 Join Date: 8/10/23 Recent Posts
There was a discussion about Joseph and the POI back in February. 
​​​​​​I noticed that Joseph talked about POI in a dharma talk about the 4 Foundations of Mindfulness.

https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/25527738
David M, modified 7 Months ago at 9/5/23 5:03 PM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/5/23 5:03 PM

RE: Joseph Goldstein lineage exploration

Posts: 38 Join Date: 8/10/23 Recent Posts
I thought this talk about lineage was great. A couple of highlights were:
  • Vince Horn was denied entry into the Jack Kornfield establishment because he associated with Daniel Ingram.
  • What is presented in the front room of places like IMS is different than what goes on in the back rooms.
https://youtu.be/yWJ8FSO7LAg?si=jIamYAum-k6_hBVW
David M, modified 7 Months ago at 9/18/23 10:00 AM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/18/23 10:00 AM

RE: Joseph Goldstein lineage exploration

Posts: 38 Join Date: 8/10/23 Recent Posts
Lineage Stories: with Joseph Goldstein & Sharon Salzberg:

"Our collective practice is primarily rooted in the Burmese and Thai Forest lineages through Mahasi Sayadaw and Ajahn Mun, and, is also influenced by many other traditions. We will build a virtual lineage image as we go along, to create a visual sense of our practice and its roots."
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https://ims.dharma.org/courses/Lineage-Stories-session-one-2023
David M, modified 7 Months ago at 9/18/23 10:08 AM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/18/23 10:08 AM

RE: Joseph Goldstein lineage exploration

Posts: 38 Join Date: 8/10/23 Recent Posts
Ask Joseph:

"In this special group mentorship program, IMS co-founder Joseph Goldstein offers support to meditators seeking to unlock the secrets of deep practice. The program offers a rare opportunity to ask questions that may be shared by others and to receive customized instruction while being in community and learning from each other."

https://ims.dharma.org/courses/ask-joseph-group-mentorship-program-2024
Eudoxos , modified 7 Months ago at 9/21/23 2:11 AM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/21/23 2:11 AM

RE: Joseph Goldstein lineage exploration

Posts: 136 Join Date: 4/6/14 Recent Posts
I registered to the event and I might watch the recording (it was 1am european time — not motivated enough). I skimmed the (AI) transcript, and there is not a word about Nibbana (or progress of insight). Anyone was there and found something relevant in that respect?
David M, modified 6 Months ago at 9/30/23 9:49 AM
Created 6 Months ago at 9/30/23 9:48 AM

RE: Joseph Goldstein lineage exploration

Posts: 38 Join Date: 8/10/23 Recent Posts
I've been researching the POI question at IMS. 
First there is the cleaned up version of the attack on Daniel Ingram from Anālayo: (I know this has been discussed)

"Stages of awakening… If used appropriately…can lead to progress through the insight knowledges and the gaining of “levels of awakening...If overdone, however…the crucial receptivity of mindfulness can become lost."

https://www.dharma.org/the-dangers-of-mindfulness-another-myth/

Why IMS thinks attacking Daniel Ingram is worthwhile is beyond me.

Next I found this:
Lineage Stories: Roxanne Dault, Tara Mulay, and Carol Wilson. These three friends will describe the Mahasi Method and how it has been passed on in different ways through both Sayadaw U Pandita and Sayadaw U Tejaniya. April 11, 2024.

https://lineagestories.ca/dault-mulay-wilson/

And lastly I found this:
 
The Natural Clarity of Awareness: A Two-Week Insight Meditation Retreat. 05/19/2024

Emphasis on the noting technique and continuity of mindfulness in sitting, walking, and daily activities taught by the Venerable Mahasi Sayadaw.

Roxanne Dault: Her teachings take root mainly from the lineage of Mahasi Sayadaw.

Tara Mulay: Her teachings and practice stem from the lineage of Mahasi Sayadaw.

So my question is, do you think if I sign up for this retreat, IMS might disclose the "sacred' POI map that only weird monks like Anālayo understand? Thanks 
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Sha-Man! Geoffrey, modified 5 Months ago at 10/31/23 12:27 AM
Created 5 Months ago at 10/31/23 12:27 AM

RE: Joseph Goldstein lineage exploration

Posts: 366 Join Date: 10/30/23 Recent Posts
So my question is, do you think if I sign up for this retreat, IMS might disclose the "sacred' POI map that only weird monks like Anālayo understand?

My guess would still be probably not. I did a 10 day Mahasi retreat at IMS last year, and it was with different teachers (Kamala Masters, Steve Armstrong, and Deb Helzter) and there was no mention of the maps. And I actually just posted about a wild experience on retreat there, but even the weird jhana experience I had when I asked about it, I was told "I was just really getting past the conceptual layers of reality" or something along those lines. I liked them as teachers decently. What is a bit curious is that I know the three of them were monastics under U Pandita for a few years a piece. And I know Steve is familiar with the maps. He gave two talk series on them, here is the first one and the second. Interestingly enough, his talks are decently recent (2016) but they are at other retreat centers. My personal theory about IMS is since they try to cater more towards beginners and intermediate yogis that they just try to strip away any idea of progress or attainment.
David M, modified 5 Months ago at 11/4/23 9:03 AM
Created 5 Months ago at 11/4/23 9:01 AM

RE: Joseph Goldstein lineage exploration

Posts: 38 Join Date: 8/10/23 Recent Posts
Thanks for the info. Sorry about your experience.

They have a retreat called Mindfulness and Insight Meditation: The Mahāsi Method next August. They even include a link to the manual of insight: http://www.wisdompubs.org/book/manual-insight

Strange....

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