First post, and I'm glad I found this interesting forum. I thought it would be a good place to describe something I've been experiencing for some time now, in hopes I might find some ideas about what exactly it is.

My meditative practice isn't quite "hardcore", but it is consitent and I have seen decent progress. I do a lot to make up for time I don't have for long meditation sessions, let alone retreats, by practicing meditative attitudes and postures during day-to-day tasks and work.

A few years ago I gradually began recognizing a recurring phenomenon involving colored points of light, or "sparks" showing up in my vision, whether meditating or not, and with eyes open or closed. They would be mostly random, and sometimes seen only out of the corner of my eye but other times head-on. They would generally appear in seemingly random places, but occasionally they'll show up on people's faces as I'm talking to them.

Eventually I discovered Theravada Buddhism's kasina practice, and found the descriptions of the color kasinas, with their intended goal, to closely mirror what I had been experiencing. Upon learning this and putting more focus into my practice - i.e., paying more attention to the phenomenon and working with it intentionally - it has increased in frequency and intensity. Blue/purple/indigo is most common, white comes in second, and red has only recently started to be "wieldable". Yellow/green are less common but they do come up; same with black. I can stabilize a bluish blob in meditation - especially in darkness - but it's only ever a weak blob. If kasina-related at all, I obviously have a lot more work to do. The involuntary sparks of different colors happen regularly throughout the day, are definitely increased in meditation, and can be shockingly large and luminescent in certain moments, frequently making me check to make sure what I saw wasn't an external event. It never is.

Okay, enough rambling and you get the point. I'm just curious what the "mechanism" here might be, given that I hadn't done any kasina practice in the first place. Is it just a somewhat accidental thing, where I was working slightly backwards but meeting at a similar point? It's become so consistent and involuntary that I can't help but wonder what exactly is going on, but I'm firm in keeping away from getting too awestruck by pretty lights.

So, just curious what you more experienced folks might have to say.

Thanks very much!

i don't know about kasina, but there is a daoist practice called 'opening the celestial eye'. It is viewed as people seeing the 'shen' light. This is a 'grade of qi', this being one type of energy that commonly gets spilt/grouped into jing, qi, and shen. Shen being 'spirit'. So roughly & basically speaking it is us seeing the energy of spirit/consciousness as light. Here is some more about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi16r-tST98

I haven't heard of a good biological explaination for seeing lights while meditating in anything I've read/heard. I'm very interested in that kind of stuff, so hopefully this thread will locate some good info.

Obviously though, it's extremely common: The Sixteen Stages of Insight (vipassanadhura.com)

Thanks for the responses. I'll look into these things.  I know in vipassana that this type of event is supposed to be more or less ignored. In concentration, apparently it's a sign of progress.  I'm relatively convinced that it comes down to the light spectrum "de-coalescing" into its individual elements, but sometimes it seems like rather than simplifying the picture, it opens new doors. "White light" experiences sometimes come as a result from this, where it seems like moving back through the "prism" to the origin light. But maybe that's bogus. 

Hey Shargrol,

Have you read that one — A phenomenology of meditation-induced light experiences: traditional Buddhist and neurobiological perspectives ? Pretty interesting, although of course, down the line, I think biological account don't ultimately "explain" anything, as in - "why is the fact that rhodopsin molecules in retina cells change conformation when absorbing the energy of light particles associated with visual experience ?" 

​​​​​​​Cheers
 

 I think there is something profound about light, seeing light decomposing into its elements, and I think there is a reason why some buddhist traditions have this whole rainbow symbolism thing going. It's not just a metaphor, imo. Dzogchen texts have interesting theories about concrete "physiological" or energetic connections between the heart and the eyes through specific "channels", and how for instance thögal practices do something special by bringing the attention directly to this eye/heart connection doing gazing/visionary practices. There are other traditions, such as the orthodox tradition, that consider the heart as the seat of "awake awareness" or "god's glory", and the connection with visual phenomena ("the uncreated light", etc.) is also apparent. I don't have the answer here, only intuitions, but my sense is that this all probably cannot be reduced to biological accounts, and much rather perhaps, the other around — who knows ? Might just be I have a natural inclination to the visual sense door ;)

Possibly of interest:
Self-Arising threefold embodiment of enlightenment
Naked Seeing: The Great Perfection, the Wheel of Time, and Visionary Buddhism in Renaissance Tibet 
Crazy one to think about: Rainbow Body and Resurrection: Spiritual Attainment, the Dissolution of the Material Body, and the Case of Khenpo A Chö
 

Strongly agreed! I think it's hinting at something distinctly physical. The "expanded edition" of physicality, of course... Visual iridescence is another thing that shows up fairly regularly. I read a Dzogchen text that mentioned "vision becoming like that of a peacock feather", and I felt I knew exactly what it was talking about.

Thanks for the links. I'll check them out.

​​​​​​​Regarding Rainbow Body and Jesus physical (non ethereal) Resurrection, there's related stuff (not post-mortem) addressed by some Taoist schools, which differenciate yang shen from yin shen. 

I experienced a path moment on an airplane while sitting in my usual left-aisle-side window seat. I looked to the left, out the window, and "ding!" This kind of experience happened a few times (not path moments but other insights) while on plane rides. In his book "Zen and the Brain" Dr. James Austen, MD, suggests that looking to the left has a unique effect on the mind and can induce Zen's "kensho" moment. In a similar way, the jhanas all carry specific visual effects - colors, movements, etc. The fire kasina practice is devoted to exploiting the mind's visual/image-based bent.

So yeah, visual stuff is very important and telling.

Nice, which text was that ?

That is soemthing which happened to me as well, on a dzogchen retreat precisely, which I describe in my first log that I used to write here on DhO (Opinions Welcome). That description made it into the "Guide for Awakening to Reality" by the person who has the eponymous blog, I think. I had had moments of that before, sometimes on mushrooms, too, but that moment was a shift which endured, though the intensity subsided. After that I saw "rainbow colors" instead of solid objects a lot of the time for a few months. 

The fact that you mention "iridescence" also reminds me of the "aura" phenomenon which happens before having a migraine sometimes. I used to get that when I was a teenager: a large blind area at the center of vision surrounded by iridiscent contours for about 15 minutes, which would be followed by a migraine. An ophtalmic migraine.

Anyways, can you tell us more about your iridescent vision and when it shows up ?

Hey Olivier,

Here's the book I mentioned: https://www.amazon.com/Sublime-Dharma-Compilation-Texts-Perfection/dp/0979858127/ref=sr_1_1?crid=4LW3F8VM5901&keywords=sublime+dharma&qid=1695575639&sprefix=sublime+dharma%2Caps%2C186&sr=8-1 It has lots of info that I found useful, and a number of relatable visual-specific references along with the "peacock feather" one. It talks about "bindus" (tiklé in Tibetan(?)) which also seem to correlate with my own experience somewhat, as well as the kasina/nimitta in Theravada, though in a different context. "Vajra Strands" are also mentioned, which might be related to all this.

The iridescence thing seems to often happen in tandem with moments of deepening concentration, when a defined "entrance" into a deeper state has been achieved. It usually outlines or "shines" off of objects in my visual field, usually with a whitening/brightening or fogging of vision overall. Sometimes it shows up in a form that reminds me of when you look closely at a piece of charred wood in the sunlight, and can see a very subtle spectral glimmer in the carbon. Other times it just simply unifies with whatever happens to be in the visual field, remaining translucent, often lattice-like and evenly-patterned despite any irregularity of the surface it's "unified" with.  My practice isn't as stable as it could be, so often the iridesence and similar phenomena doesn't stick around for very long and it never gets too crazy. But it's always definitive of a deepening of concentration, or maybe a "frequency shift". I've never done a retreat but would like to in order to attempt to stabilize/study these fleeting things.

You mentioned mushrooms, and I also have experienced this in a large number of ways while using them. I think they actually had a lot to do with "neurologically clueing me in" to the phenomenon, as well as many other meditative "signatures" and events. I strongly believe in endogenous DMT's role in many of these experiences, and psilocin is essentially DMT. That's another topic of interest that's probably been discussed here.

Again similar to you, I used to experience the migraines you mentioned, also as a teenager, but I personally can't recall any rainbow effect in the visual disturbance part. Those were gnarly, with puking, slurred speech and all the good stuff. Oddly enough, they completely dissapeared when I began using mushrooms and cannabis. I do know that mushrooms have been used to effectively treat cluster headaches, which I think is what these are.

Cool stuff!

I'm really interested in the Bon Dzogchen book you linked.

​​​​​​​

So that's why, when the merrie pranksters hung a left into ken kesey's farm, there was a sign that said, "no left turn unstoned."

:-) :-)

P.S. - I think I figured out the simple answer to part of my question: Ignore it, and it begins to stabilize. I guess a nimitta can arise outside of sitting, and without meaning for it to, but it won't necessarily be stable. And maybe that's all I'm dealing with. 

It's still pretty interesting to consider the presence and "meaning" of the different colors, all of which, so far, match up with Buddhist text descriptions.

Hey, one question for you Visuddhimagga folks. When it talks of the learning sign and the counterpart sign, I'm taking it to mean that the learning sign is the afterimage, while counterpart sign is the same basic thing but generated without the aid of a kasina disk, i.e., 'born of perception.' But then it says that the counterpart sign 'has neither shape nor color'. I can't quite understand this. Any ideas?

This might be of use, mentioned by Leigh Brasington (here):

Being an inept jhana practitioner, I can point you to this (Visuddhimagga-critical) article "Case of the Missing Simile" by Bhikkhu Sona . (Visuddhimagga section on counterpart sign is here). I hope someone adds something first-hand.

First hand report: yes, lights behind the eyes are a standard part of my jhana experience. Each jhana has a luminal signature in its color and aspect. The shape of these lights circular, often like looking at someone's irises. I have no idea what causes this but I did hear Leigh Brasington describe the cause once in person but I've since forgotten what he said as it was quite some time ago.

Chris, I always thought that was pre-jhana stuff. Are those circular lights (a ring in my case) fix, drifting of like shrinking, going from peripheria to the center?

Those same sorts of visuals ( iris-like images) show up for me just before some cessations, too.

During a jhana, assuming I pay attention to the visuals, they may pulsate a bit, or early in a jhana they may move in from the periphery to the center. Sometimes over and over again. I also get fuzzy cloud-like images prior to entering jhana. I doubt everyone "sees" exactly  the same things, Pepe.

Sure Chris. But recurring rings coming from periphery to center and fuzzy cloud-like images is exactly what I see. Not the pulsating thing, though, but instead (***) a really fast blinking with attention pulled towards somewhat above third eye or towards the middle of the brain too. Feels like more A&P than a near-miss (which are more surprising rather than scaling up). Thanks! 

(***) edit: no before or after the rings, just trying to see similarities

A near miss of what? Cessation/ fruition?

A near miss of cessation. I'm pre Stream Entry, enjoying a longuish EQ

I just found this interesting thread: https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5628428

It suggests there's a strict difference between nimitta and thogal visions. I didn't consider this, and found that idea to be very helpful. Others also might, so check the thread out if interested. My own experiences match much closer to the Thogal stuff. 

From this logic, it seems there are visionary experiences stemming from physical, light-based phenomena, and those stemming from visualization, and they are different. 

But again, I'm just sleuthing here and anything I've written should be taken with a grain. Just logging my personal findings. 

Funny Chris experienced the concentration colours "behind the eyes"  

I experience these colors and shapes with eyes closed and with eyes open. If open, staring at the room, then these colour shapes become part of the room image. Is this behind the eyes? In front of the eyes? Inside the eyes maybe? In the mind?  

But yes I also connect these visual objects as part of concentration stuff and usually 3rd Jhana for me is purple haze in the center and dark wax lava lamp blobs trying to penetrate the center but they can't. 

Also once had a very visceral image of a very dynamic doughnut shaped drag grey cloud arising very small from the floor I front of me and rising up and getting wider and bigger and then suddenly being sucked back into its center where it came from. Then would come up again and again. Until I got bored with it and looked if anything else can be noted (sound of birds outside etc). Btw this was pre SE. To me anything missing it's center and dynamic movements being in the periphery is 3rd Jhana (not know why but I tend to spend lots of time in 3rd Jhana).