This article was just posted in the Atlantic.  Thoughts? 
Has anyone used this app 'Jhourney'?

The Meditation Start-Up That’s Selling Bliss on Demand
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/03/jhana-bliss-helmet-startup/677614/

(Article is paywalled, if anyone is able to find a non-paywall link, that'd be much appreciated)

"Here come the Jhana bros."


 

I'd like to see it work, but from what is reported in the article, and what I have read on their website, etc., it doesn't sound like it is working. It could be that, for many people, there are prerequisites, even with a biofeedback boost. 

I'd be interested to see how useful jhana is without an insight practice. Jhana is an aid to insight, but the extent to which insight can be achieved might also depend on having the habit of looking for and remembering insights. People often have valid insights when using hallucinogens, but those insights are often forgotten quickly. Of course, people with regular access to the jhanas are more likely to develop such habits than those without. Also, even without insights, jhana would probably be helpful in terms of mental health and social interaction. 

I agree with the general sentiment that the jhanas could be taught more effectively than they are now and that many people learning the jhanas would be a good thing. 

I subscribe to The Atlantic, and here's a gift article link that could (should?) work for anyone here:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/03/jhana-bliss-helmet-startup/677614/?gift=Xd3op67ZoSANREgGAQ_-u9UtEq_9A65Q4z_UpBYcRUQ&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Thanks Chris,
It works, I'll read it !
metta
smiling stone

Ah, yes, I just re-read the article, and I guess this is not a live app yet.  Anyway, it's not every day that you see the word 'jhana' in a major news source , which is why I posted it here.

To follow on to your question, 'I'd be interested to see how useful jhana is without an insight practice' -

This is maybe off topic from the article itself.  But I would also ask, can you achieve jhana without some sort of insight practice (even if that practice is not thought of as an 'insight practice' or even a 'practice' by the meditator)?

I mean, to solidify jhana, it requires at least some amount of understanding of how the mind works, perceives, and knows things, does it not?

P.S. Thanks, Chris. I didn't realize you could share a free article like that.

Yes, that's what I was thinking of in terms of prerequisites. Also, I think there are mental "muscles" that a person has to learn how to use. But I also think some people will arrive at the jhanas more easily than others and some may be so strongly inclined that they could just stumble across them without any training.

Also, yes, it's great to see the very concept of jhanas hit the mainstream! The more people know they exist, the more people will learn them.

"Also, yes, it's great to see the very concept of jhanas hit the mainstream! The more people know they exist, the more people will learn them."

Well, this is the conventional thinking and it may be true  But as I think we've seen with the 'mainstreaming' of other meditation concepts comes misconception and misinterpretation that may actually add hindrance towards understanding.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, I really don't know if mainstreaming is 'good' to be honest. I do think that there are many resources freely available for people that are truly interested in meditation and concentrative practice, which is a good thing.

I also think that, though 'jhana' is historically used in very specific religious context, and has very specific criteria (depending on the teacher/tradition), it is something that is generally experienced by people more commonly than is maybe thought. Perhaps not quite on the same level or with the same arc, but I do think things like 'flow state' described by athletes or artists, or when deep in a trance state at work, would qualify as a type of 'jhana' in my book (1st jhana in that specific example).  Some schools would disagree, Pa Auk for example has very high standards for what is jhana.

Thanks for the freebie read. Kinda typical startup hype, ass usual. The reporting was tongue in cheekiness as it should be. It is incumbent upon those making claims to bring evidence.
I've put on several 'happy helmets' thru-out the years (remember Buddhist geeks?)
Unfortunately the brain measuring device inventors, presupposes, that there is a 'base' level to measure from....
The brain is almost always dialed up to 11, then it stays that way while it whittles away most of it to give ya a nice package out 'you'
Measuring is hard to do when its all everything all the time....   
Oh, money, money.
I wish them, fruition.

Yup. In fact, I would disagree :-), even at the sutta jhana level, without going so far as the VM jhanas. I have a lot of experience in athletic flow states and I find them very different from the sutta jhanas.

​​​​​​​... And so, I see an immediate example of your point. Pretty soon, everyone who goes out for the Sunday jog will be claiming that they do jhana :-) Still, I think it's all good. I don't imagine that people experiencing the very shallow end of practices like mindfulness or jhana takes anything away from people at the deep end. The more people get into the pool, the better. 

 
"I don't imagine that people experiencing the very shallow end of practices like mindfulness or jhana takes anything away from people at the deep end. The more people get into the pool, the better."

I totally agree with the first part of that statement.  None of this stuff should detract from the experience of serious practitioners, however fluffy it may be.  

I think one can only hope one result of more people becoming aware of the nuance of jhana and how to attain and refine them would be an increased awareness of the spectrum of experience that is 'jhana', and more importantly what jhana is 'supposed to' lead to... which is lasting insight.  Runner's high or flow state or whatever, which maybe similar to jhanas in some ways, can be looked at as a good starting point rather than the end all be all.  This is, I think, similar to one of Daniel's goals in publishing MCTB.  Never give up!

 

I read the article just now. My reaction at the moment is that this is a paradigmatic example of how techbros deal with almost everything. A child-like simplification of a nuanced, complex real world thing. Oh, and another opportunity to monetize something new.

Here's an archived version if people need a free version ever.

I actually think this is quite a good thing. They are trying to make something that would be additive to the meditation scene (to my knowledge, there isnt any consumer level entry bioinformatics), their research could also contribute more to the neuroscience understanding of these kinds of things, it would also help to mainstream deeper mystical practices and their results. Plus, better biofeedback technology in general seems better, because it can help with things like PTSD.

Compare this approach to what most of the big solo meditation teachers are doing, creating their own meditation app that has just their guided meditations on it and maybe some talks, and this just seems better.