Meditating when Beat

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finding-oneself ♤, modified 1 Month ago at 4/2/24 8:27 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/2/24 8:27 PM

Meditating when Beat

Posts: 475 Join Date: 1/7/14 Recent Posts
Meaning exhausted. I feel beat like bloody pulp. What do I do to mediate more in or with this state? I don't like it. And the more I feel like this, the less I meditate.

Usually from work, or sleep deprivaiton. Or both, currently.

A pragmatic answer would be to get more sleep. Done. I'll work on that. Thanks.

But I'm supposed to keep non-heroic daily practice. And some days the only time I can meditate is after work. When I'm beat.

The reality is, I ocasionslly have a day, or a few bad weeks, where it gets pretty rough. And they aren't going away soon. So I want to face it, and do better.

For instance, I just did a sit that was 13 minutes. My arm burns from an injury. My face hurts from sleep deprivation. I also feel tired, mentally. And I got the work burnout feeling.

When I sit to meditate I DO feel pleasant stuff. Vipassana-jhana related? IDK. But I associate it with that label. Its pleasant and it's a weird mild rapture. But overwhelmingly there is a bias for gross shitty feeling in the face. With a gentle wash of what shinzen refers to as impermanence. The slow messaging feeling in the body. And mixed in a bit of anxiety in the chest.

A solution I've come to learn is reclined posture on the couch. It allows the beat body to rest. I do it with my legs crossed, sitting up. It implies a meditative mind.

Any tips? Thanks. God bless
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Mind over easy, modified 1 Month ago at 4/2/24 9:11 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/2/24 9:11 PM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 291 Join Date: 4/28/12 Recent Posts
Heyo. Boy is this relatable emoticon 

When I'm not feeling "on", whether I'm tired or exhausted or distracted or in pain, I try to approach sitting accordingly, trying to be more gentle, patient, adaptive to the circumstances. You can still do all the same stuff with investigating the 3 c's, practicing mindfulness, trying to remain equanimious. Honestly though? Sometimes I have sits where I can hardly focus, falling asleep constantly, distracted by thoughts or posture or whatever it may be. I kinda just gently remind myself that there will always be another sit, another chance to practice. Some sits just kinda suck and that's fine. 

I don't know you or your practice/life very well, but for what it's worth, I have often times reminded myself to keep grounded in the more regular human survival and physical/mental wellness aspects. All the simple stuff like:
-eating well
-keeping consistent schedules
-getting fresh air and exercise
-working on maintaining healthy relationships
-working through stuff with a therapist
-generally just staying connected to all my earthly pursuits and ambitions (work, hobbies, pursuing random skills)
-self care/self love in general! emoticon

The optimistic news is that unless you stop practicing entirely for awhile, you're not likely to "mess anything up" by having some bad sits from time to time, or even shortening/pausing from sits from time to time. The nature of reality isn't going anywhere, and it's always going to be there to study and meditate on. Plus, it feels a lot easier to get more out of practice when you're in good health and feeling strong and stable mentally/emotionally.

Again, not knowing you or your practice/life that well, I'll just share my own experience- when I first began practicing, I felt as though a lot of the stuff that was wrong with my life and a lot of my dissatisfaction/unhappiness would be solved by getting X'th path or attaining X/Y. Not to diminish what practice can do, but I think I was a little naive about assuming access to states/stages/attainments would raise my life to a certain standard of wellness and happiness. As simple as it sounds, I found a lot of my happiness, well-being, peace of mind, came through all the regular non-meditation stuff like I mentioned above. Nothing wrong with focusing up on physical/mental health and well-being when those things need some TLC!

As far as I understand, attainments are finite and have an end point, but just living life in a healthy fulfilling peaceful way is an endless road, and just as significant and important to focus on as the insight/meditative attainments side. Best of luck and hope this helps or at least offers some reassurance! emoticon 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Month ago at 4/3/24 3:59 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/3/24 3:49 AM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 2807 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Totally can relate! All samsaric beings can relate to it! emoticon 

Chop the daily sit into 3 parts! 

1st part 10-15 minutes;

Mantra aloud (can be quiet). I used OmTare Tu Tare Ture Soha. White Tara also known as the "swift one" seeing all beings in all the 6 realms with ease, arise-passing. Om Tare Tu Tare Ture Soha. Keep a nice rhyth and put more energy into the "ha" at the end of So"ha"! 
At the end of this 1st part dissolve the white bright light of Tara into rainbow colours, let it go into your heart and let it spread to all beings, to benefit them all. 

2nd part 15-20 minutes noting aloud (can be quiet or loud but lips keep moving)

Noting body sensations, feeling tones, mind states, mind images, thinking. Start with 1-2 notes per second and follow the tempo that comes on its own either faster or slower. 

3rd part Radical Allowing 10 minutes (silently just sit and let stuff do itself without trying this or that, let it be as is, even if it's sleepy or falling to sleep, radically allow it but keep sitting through)

At the end wish for all merits acumilated to be of benefit to all beings above, bellow and all around without difference. May all beings be free from suffering, may all beings awaken, May all beings be happy. Thank Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha. 

Go gently about your life things. 

This is just an example. 
One can also use Tonglen as one part (shargrol version) or else. Make it your own practice! Claim
it! emoticon And when you do stick to it for at least a few months to give it a chance to develope. Btw I use that Insight Timer app to create my 3 part chime bells so I do t have to look at the watch during the sit. 

Best wishes to you and May you be free from suffering, may you awaken, may you be truly happy. 
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Chris M, modified 1 Month ago at 4/3/24 8:08 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/3/24 8:08 AM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 5236 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
When hungry - eat!
When tired - sleep!
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finding-oneself ♤, modified 1 Month ago at 4/16/24 6:18 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/16/24 6:17 PM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 475 Join Date: 1/7/14 Recent Posts
Sorry, Ive been trying to post this from my clipboard for days:

@mind-over-easy

" trying to be more gentle, patient, adaptive". Yes, I like the verbiage right here. Nice reminder the attitude to bring towards it.

"I kinda just gently remind myself that there will always be another sit, another chance to practice. Some sits just kinda suck and that's fine. "

Yes, good. The use of "gentle" again. And this time, if I wasn't able to get a good sit in. Still be gentle but just in the training in morality sense. : )
I for sure need to work on my personal relationships. A therapist wouldn't hurt. And I used to be insanely quick to overwhelming self love, post A&P event. I'll get back there one day. Currently, I'm reasonably so, maybe.

" I felt as though a lot of the stuff that was wrong with my life and a lot of my dissatisfaction/unhappiness would be solved by getting X'th path or attaining X/Y".

I admittedly feel this way. But as I've changed my center of gravity from being in the DN, into EQ (I think), I realize the metaphor of SE, just being a basket to cary all your stuff you've learned so far. Some days my practicing this stuff helps, other days it doesn't as much. Overall, my life is getting exponentially better.

" I found a lot of my happiness, well-being, peace of mind, came through all the regular non-meditation stuff like I mentioned above. Nothing wrong with focusing up on physical/mental health and well-being when those things need some TLC!" Definitely.
" Best of luck and hope this helps or at least offers some reassurance! " Thanks, it sure does! : )
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@che
"Totally can relate! All samsaric beings can relate to it!  
Chop the daily sit into 3 parts! 
1st part - 3rd part...."

I was hoping someone would provide a technique. It's interesting.  I never do mantras so maybe i should try. In any case, you also menioned: "let it go into your heart and let it spread to all beings, to benefit them all. " I've been working a bit with the heart in daily life. And it's way better. It helps heal my body mind, and helps heal my fear of all the people in the room, and helps reignite the severed connection. I do think the heart, will help me with practicing while burnt out. As for the entire technique, parts 1 - 3. I'll look into it, i'll try it.
"Best wishes to you and May you be free from suffering, may you awaken, may you be truly happy. " Thank you ^◡^
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@ChrisM
"When hungry - eat!When tired - sleep!"

Hahahaha!
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The two things I've learned that help.
1. Physical Emvironmental Stuff● The sun, its rays, its heat. Its infrared radiaiton.● Cold exposure therapy. 
One, basically go sit or walk in the sun. Just on a biophysical level. Life giving insane ball of plasma.
The other thing is more just, conceptless, awake awareness. On another ocassion I was mediating by a very sentimental lake. It made it very easy despite being sleep deprived.
​​​​​​​
Another occasion I did it at a more public river with people around. April 5th. A mix of light snow, and bright sun. The cold helped
Robert L, modified 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 8:50 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 8:49 AM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 71 Join Date: 2/10/19 Recent Posts
When I feel exhausted or tired, I inquire into the sensations that make up "exhausted" or "tired". The specific feelings that I label "exhaustion". Separate the narrative of, "I feel exhausted", and go into the actual sensations or experience of exhaustion. Where are those sensations? What are the sensations before I label them as "exhaustion". Do I feel these sensations throughout my entire being? Is there a part of me that doesn't feel these sensations? What about this experience makes it unpleasant or pleasant. Embrace the experience and not the narrative.
You can do this with any uncomfortable experience. Separate the experience from the narrative and just look at the experience. This is my practice all day, everyday. You can utilize this practice no matter how you feel.
‎ ‎Nihila, modified 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 9:37 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 9:37 AM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 350 Join Date: 1/19/23 Recent Posts
Getting the right micronutrients is something that's been huge for me with regards to energy levels. Minerals for instance have been particularly helpful. I would have these big exhautions dips during the day. I eventually did a hair mineral analisys test and found out I was deficient in magnesium, among other minerals and I started supplementing it. Low and behold they went away within just a day or two.

Might be a factor to consider if anyone struggles with energy, either too much or too little. emoticon
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finding-oneself ♤, modified 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 9:38 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 9:38 AM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 475 Join Date: 1/7/14 Recent Posts
Thanks Robert. That's a good idea. I primarily find it in my face. It feels like sort of a piece of armor or a tiara of pain. Sitting on or embedded in my face. When I'm really tired there is a second separate sensations of exhaustion inside the center of the head...

My problem is im super identified with the pain. Unbelievably so. Breaking my foot hurt less...

Inside the rest of the body feels ok. If I am able to actually follow your instructions that would be amazing here... hopefully with my new track of doing basic non'dual mediation or maybe shikantaza, whatever you call it.

next time this happens and I want to mediate I'll reread what you wrote
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finding-oneself ♤, modified 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 9:41 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 9:41 AM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 475 Join Date: 1/7/14 Recent Posts
Thank you Nihila. Solid advice
Robert L, modified 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 11:31 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 11:31 AM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 71 Join Date: 2/10/19 Recent Posts
You're welcome.<br />Part of the narrative is the story we tell ourselves about the pain. The other part is the overlay of the image we have of our self. The concept of your face is just the image/thought of an imaginary face. It is a constantly changing thought or imaginary image we create, and it bares little to no correlation with the sensation/experience of what is labeled pain. Your "face" is a made up subtle image no different than the image you think of when I say red apple. The way we construct our sense of self is very sneaky, breaking identification with an experience starts with the realization that you don't have a face, or a self that feels pain.
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finding-oneself ♤, modified 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 3:27 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 3:27 PM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 475 Join Date: 1/7/14 Recent Posts
Interesting. I resonated more with the "&gt;Part of the narrative is the story we tell ourselves about the pain." Than the face image thing. I know I do it. It's just. I'm not sure if it's my face image that is necessarily relevant in this. Although it might be. I just don't know.<br /><br />But for sure, 110%, the story I tell myself about those sensations is relevant.<br /><br />I think the whole new non-dual mediation and/or shikantaza can help. Ill watch how this plays out.
Robert L, modified 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 7:01 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 7:01 PM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 71 Join Date: 2/10/19 Recent Posts
Do what works for you. Insight will happen one way or another. emoticon
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finding-oneself ♤, modified 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 7:38 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 7:38 PM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 475 Join Date: 1/7/14 Recent Posts
Hahaha definitely : )
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Dream Walker, modified 1 Month ago at 4/18/24 3:03 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/18/24 3:03 AM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 1732 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
finding oneself
heya, 
What do I do to mediate more in or with this state...(exhausted)?
More?- Notice head nods, keep hands above you such that when they fall it wakes you up (sharpen a fork and feel the dhukka)
Walk, stand.
With? - Don't beat yourself up. Try beating a drum/anything to create a beat/tempo. Notice stuff, label stuff, to the beat.
I don't like it. And the more I feel like this, the less I meditate.
Any tips?
More fun and less suffering. It is YOUR meditation. MAKE it enjoyable. Get a kazzo! Breath is kazzooy! Touch yourself! Strobelights! Record yourself as you complain and play it back! Look in the mirror and laugh your ass off til you actually laugh! Pump up the volume and dance your meditation! 
Explore what you CAN'T do with meditation but have fun doing it.
(dammit, i gotta f'n meditate to be f'n cool and sht to stop suffering by suffering...I'm so cool cause it sux)

emoticon
~D
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Month ago at 4/18/24 6:08 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/18/24 6:08 AM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 2807 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Yeah +1 

follow the tempo worked really well with me. And noting out loud worked wonders for my practice! 

Here is what I did and it was a very helpful tool. Noting aloud. Create your own tempo. 1-5 notes a second. Check Kenneth Folk on you tube explaining how to and what to note when doing freestyle aloud noting. I can link if you can't find it. 

https://youtu.be/9FeajWRJcXA?si=tOC_WftyuIlw015w
J Bird, modified 1 Month ago at 4/18/24 4:20 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/18/24 4:20 PM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 26 Join Date: 12/10/23 Recent Posts
You might throw walking meditation into the mix. I find it can be great if you're doing a lot of work in a chair, and commuting. It also feels good when you're contending with a lot of adrenaline, and it's hard to feel asleep when walking.

I also love to put my zafu on the couch, with a throw pillow to straighten my spine. This way, you get the benefit of the cross-legged position without any uncomfortable pressure on your legs. I can sit for hours like this without pain.
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finding-oneself ♤, modified 28 Days ago at 4/21/24 6:30 PM
Created 28 Days ago at 4/21/24 6:30 PM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 475 Join Date: 1/7/14 Recent Posts
Dream Walker
finding oneself
heya, 
What do I do to mediate more in or with this state...(exhausted)?
More?- Notice head nods, keep hands above you such that when they fall it wakes you up (sharpen a fork and feel the dhukka)
Walk, stand.
With? - Don't beat yourself up. Try beating a drum/anything to create a beat/tempo. Notice stuff, label stuff, to the beat.
I don't like it. And the more I feel like this, the less I meditate.
Any tips?
More fun and less suffering. It is YOUR meditation. MAKE it enjoyable. Get a kazzo! Breath is kazzooy! Touch yourself! Strobelights! Record yourself as you complain and play it back! Look in the mirror and laugh your ass off til you actually laugh! Pump up the volume and dance your meditation! 
Explore what you CAN'T do with meditation but have fun doing it.
(dammit, i gotta f'n meditate to be f'n cool and sht to stop suffering by suffering...I'm so cool cause it sux)

emoticon
~D
I don't know what you're smoking dream walker but this made me laugh! hahaha. I will do all that shit one day. I'm going to more or less stick to vanilla meditation but by god, if I don't get a kazzoo. 

HOLY FUCK. I just remembered there is a kazzoo 5 feet away from me, in  drawer. Wow. Great minds think alike. I will surely do a kazoo mantra meditation. Ill let the kazzoo vibrate me into oblivion.
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finding-oneself ♤, modified 28 Days ago at 4/21/24 6:33 PM
Created 28 Days ago at 4/21/24 6:33 PM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 475 Join Date: 1/7/14 Recent Posts
J Bird
You might throw walking meditation into the mix. I find it can be great if you're doing a lot of work in a chair, and commuting. It also feels good when you're contending with a lot of adrenaline, and it's hard to feel asleep when walking.

I also love to put my zafu on the couch, with a throw pillow to straighten my spine. This way, you get the benefit of the cross-legged position without any uncomfortable pressure on your legs. I can sit for hours like this without pain.
Hi J Bird!

Yes, I love the couch style meditation. I got me a zafu, but what I do is just plop some blankets down and make a nest. The posture will always be a little different, but I like it. C:

I used to do a lot more walking meditation. But my job I am standing a lot. And these god forsaken health problems. On the weeknds I just rest. And I will go to the gym and do all work outs seated... But I actually meditate at the gym a little. I'll listen to dharma podcasts. Keep my awareness when I walk around. And try to feel my body when I move weights around.
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finding-oneself ♤, modified 28 Days ago at 4/21/24 6:37 PM
Created 28 Days ago at 4/21/24 6:37 PM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 475 Join Date: 1/7/14 Recent Posts
Hello All.

So I did get somewhat of on update on this front. 

I have found it helpful to not identify with the fucked up painful pressure in the head. I don't know how I'm actually doing this. I guess it's the whole process of dissolvig the self in the head PLUS relaxing the aversion to the pain in the face area... I noticed identifying with the pain in the face, automatically instantly congeils a sense of self. 

I'm used to relaxing the sense of self in the head, during better conditions. But it was the pain in the face throwing me off.

Now that I know what to do, I can keep working with this. 

I'm honestly SHOCKED I found something that worked. I wasn't very optimistic with this thread. I more or less just wanted to socialize and see what people said.

Thanks guys
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 27 Days ago at 4/22/24 6:37 PM
Created 27 Days ago at 4/22/24 6:37 PM

RE: Meditating when Beat

Posts: 2807 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
"I'm honestly SHOCKED I found something that worked. "

emoticon The Kazoo? I knew it will work! emoticon Must try it myself! 

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