I don't see a red dot while doing Fire Kasina - Discussion
Ha, I see you actually answered my question before:
That might explain why you are not getting the red dot. You may not have developed these levels of concentration yet. The arising and passing away is a particularly technical name for a type of "peak experience", let's say, it is a milestone of contemplative development basically, which often goes along with various signatures like lots of sensate clarity, easily maintained attention, magnet-like/strong focus, perhaps even a lot of perceptual speed (as in: lots of sensatins arising and passing away quickly: could be tactile flutters, could be manifest in all sense doors, which could be expressed as: perceiving fast vibrations), perhaps also a lot of "energy" in various senses of the word (somatic sensations, but also high arousal), various nice emotions like possibly love, gratitude, excitement, sometimes a sense of attentional unity, a sense of having understood something new/profound/interesting/mindblowing, psychological insights, etc., etc.
The A&P will manifest differently depending on what object or subject of meditation one has been engaging with, and how one has been engaging with it (or not depending on that, possibly
). Which is probably why the theravadins have chose a name that is less descriptive of specific "content", and more "structural" (the perceptual/sensate speed is sort of a non-specific characteristics), although the speed is by all means not always there, so that's also chosing a side... I would venture that the reason for that choice is actually the abidhammic worldview that experience is composed of short mindmoments, which I think is not true, but I digress.
According to Daniel, the red dot is the version of the A&P stage that happens when one has been using the closed-eyed after-image of a lightsource as a single point of focus: it has the characters of strong focus, brightness/clarity at the center of the field of vision, stability (paradoxically for a stage named "arising and passing away": it can feel very stable and solid), but not so much the other aspects like joy, bodily bliss, sense of knowing, supposedly because the object of focus is an abstract visual form. The speed and arising and passing away of sensations is not really there either, which is why I always thought the correspondance was sort fo contrived, but anyways.
FYI, not all experiences that share some of these characteristics are an A&P, but some are, and the way to tell is usually by also looking at what comes before and what comes after (sequence) in the short and longer-term, if one is a meditator or not (or doing something like meditation without calling it that), if one can repeat the experience, etc.
In my perspective this way of viewing things is not explanatory of everything and not always useful, but particularly for early meditative/mystical experiences, I think it is a really useful map. It supposedly and often leads to more disconcerting and/or challenging experiences, which are precious if one can see the gold covered in poop, despite their sometimes unpleasant nature. In a way they are where depth is carved. These themselves lead on to deeper and more mature stuff.
MCTB chapter 30 gives a very detailed and sometimes graphic description of these various meditative experiences. Another one is Jack Kornfield's A Path with Heart, chap. 9–10. You can find versions of this sequence in many traditions, including in literary theory! with the Hero's journey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_journey
It would be nice if you kept at it and let us know if the red dot shows up or not.
As an fyi, the EPRC is gonna be doing a pilot study of a 2 week fire kasina retreat this summer, so we might get interesting stuff. In higher doses it tends to lead to immersive visions and whatnot.
Final point: I'm not sure this sort of practice is especially reserved for advanced practitioners — if it draws you in that should be enough. I myself never practiced it much because I never was much interested in that practice beyond trying it a few times.
Setzer
I'm a COMPLETE beginner at meditation, so I'm not sure what Arising and Passing Away means
I'm a COMPLETE beginner at meditation, so I'm not sure what Arising and Passing Away means
That might explain why you are not getting the red dot. You may not have developed these levels of concentration yet. The arising and passing away is a particularly technical name for a type of "peak experience", let's say, it is a milestone of contemplative development basically, which often goes along with various signatures like lots of sensate clarity, easily maintained attention, magnet-like/strong focus, perhaps even a lot of perceptual speed (as in: lots of sensatins arising and passing away quickly: could be tactile flutters, could be manifest in all sense doors, which could be expressed as: perceiving fast vibrations), perhaps also a lot of "energy" in various senses of the word (somatic sensations, but also high arousal), various nice emotions like possibly love, gratitude, excitement, sometimes a sense of attentional unity, a sense of having understood something new/profound/interesting/mindblowing, psychological insights, etc., etc.
The A&P will manifest differently depending on what object or subject of meditation one has been engaging with, and how one has been engaging with it (or not depending on that, possibly
). Which is probably why the theravadins have chose a name that is less descriptive of specific "content", and more "structural" (the perceptual/sensate speed is sort of a non-specific characteristics), although the speed is by all means not always there, so that's also chosing a side... I would venture that the reason for that choice is actually the abidhammic worldview that experience is composed of short mindmoments, which I think is not true, but I digress. According to Daniel, the red dot is the version of the A&P stage that happens when one has been using the closed-eyed after-image of a lightsource as a single point of focus: it has the characters of strong focus, brightness/clarity at the center of the field of vision, stability (paradoxically for a stage named "arising and passing away": it can feel very stable and solid), but not so much the other aspects like joy, bodily bliss, sense of knowing, supposedly because the object of focus is an abstract visual form. The speed and arising and passing away of sensations is not really there either, which is why I always thought the correspondance was sort fo contrived, but anyways.
FYI, not all experiences that share some of these characteristics are an A&P, but some are, and the way to tell is usually by also looking at what comes before and what comes after (sequence) in the short and longer-term, if one is a meditator or not (or doing something like meditation without calling it that), if one can repeat the experience, etc.
In my perspective this way of viewing things is not explanatory of everything and not always useful, but particularly for early meditative/mystical experiences, I think it is a really useful map. It supposedly and often leads to more disconcerting and/or challenging experiences, which are precious if one can see the gold covered in poop, despite their sometimes unpleasant nature. In a way they are where depth is carved. These themselves lead on to deeper and more mature stuff.
MCTB chapter 30 gives a very detailed and sometimes graphic description of these various meditative experiences. Another one is Jack Kornfield's A Path with Heart, chap. 9–10. You can find versions of this sequence in many traditions, including in literary theory! with the Hero's journey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_journey
It would be nice if you kept at it and let us know if the red dot shows up or not.
As an fyi, the EPRC is gonna be doing a pilot study of a 2 week fire kasina retreat this summer, so we might get interesting stuff. In higher doses it tends to lead to immersive visions and whatnot.
Final point: I'm not sure this sort of practice is especially reserved for advanced practitioners — if it draws you in that should be enough. I myself never practiced it much because I never was much interested in that practice beyond trying it a few times.