Personality disorders and the Progress of Insight (POI)

Robin Woods, modified 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 12:50 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 10:35 AM

Personality disorders and the Progress of Insight (POI)

Posts: 191 Join Date: 5/28/12 Recent Posts
If I had an undiagnosed, quiet Cluster B personality disorder (BPD) - which was only ever picked up on (and treated as) recurrent chronic anxiety/depression - would this explain why I experienced such incredibly intense POI cycling after path moments? And a very rough and dramatic ride generally? [like - actually Heaven and Hell at times]

In the simplest possible terms: do you need a strong ‘ego’ to then dissolve that ‘ego’? 

Is there any advice for people in this situation? A lot of things make sense now. 

I realise this situation is pretty niche/esoteric- but just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this? Could the process of awakening also convert quiet BPD into overt BPD - which is what seems to have recently happened to me?
shargrol, modified 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 11:45 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 11:27 AM

RE: Personality disorders and the Progress of Insight (POI)

Posts: 2476 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
My hunch is that it would be hard for someone with a true Cluster B disorder to practice consistently enough to go through the Progress of Insight, at least based on this description (which is one of the first thing that came up when I googled): Cluster B | Psychology Today

It is very common for meditators to have a path-like experience but for this to actually be an A&P event. Then the person enters the dukka nanas with a lot of energy and it can be very volitle and have a up and down/heaven and hell feeling of cycling. But post-stream entry is rarely volitle like that (unless you are on retreat, have SE, and then keep pushing hard for hours a day, day after day).

Most likely it's the housecleaning phase: Shargrol's Posts Compilation (shargrolpostscompilation.blogspot.com)

Of course, I couldn't know for sure, so definitely disregard this if it doesn't seem right or helpful.
Robin Woods, modified 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 11:50 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/17/24 11:50 AM

RE: Personality disorders and the Progress of Insight (POI)

Posts: 191 Join Date: 5/28/12 Recent Posts
oh no sorry - I'm definitely beyond 2nd path and have been having Fruitions for years. It was the unmistakable review cycling post-SE that was most explosive!
Nervous Bee, modified 1 Month ago at 4/18/24 2:54 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/18/24 2:53 PM

RE: Personality disorders and the Progress of Insight (POI)

Posts: 9 Join Date: 12/31/23 Recent Posts
Hi Robin, 

you definitely want to adress the underlying issue first. Are you in therapy? I would recommend to work on emotional stability and ego development first before continuing with Vipassana or meditation practice. 
Yes, you need a strong ego for further stages of human development. By this I mean specifically strong internal working models. Eg. good affect regulation, interpersonal and mentalizing skills. 
I cannot comment on your specific diagnosis but judging from my own crisis, after doing lot's of therapy and having stopped viewing my experience from the PoI perspective the intensity of the cycles has almost entirely disappeared. 

Wishing you all the best, 
​​​​NB
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Dream Walker, modified 1 Month ago at 4/18/24 3:52 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 4/18/24 3:52 PM

RE: Personality disorders and the Progress of Insight (POI)

Posts: 1732 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Robin Woods
Hi
If I had an undiagnosed, quiet Cluster B personality disorder (BPD) - which was only ever picked up on (and treated as) recurrent chronic anxiety/depression -
ummm, lets just say you experience anxiety/depression...un-diagnosed or not, Quiet or loud, treated in some way or not.
would this explain why I experienced such incredibly intense POI cycling after path moments? And a very rough and dramatic ride generally? [like - actually Heaven and Hell at times]
Causality is very tricky, is the BPD the egg or is cycling thru POI fear and misery the chicken?

In the simplest possible terms: do you need a strong ‘ego’ to then dissolve that ‘ego’? 
How do you define Ego? What sensations imply that there is an ego? Can you dissolve those sensations?
Is there any advice for people in this situation? A lot of things make sense now. 
Situation?
You experience intense POI cycles
anxiety/depression might be caused by BPD or POI might trigger BPD like symptoms.

I realize this situation is pretty niche/esoteric- but just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this? Could the process of awakening also convert quiet BPD into overt BPD - which is what seems to have recently happened to me?
I would look for a really good professional to weigh in. Find one that knows advanced meditation. (Ron Crouch?)
I am also really sensitive to the POI stages. I don't get heaven so much but I know hell very very well. With each shift the hell gets a bit better.
Good Luck,
~D

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