The energy of ill will

The energy of ill will shargrol 4/29/24 7:59 AM
RE: The energy of ill will Todo 4/29/24 10:50 AM
RE: The energy of ill will Ni Nurta 4/29/24 3:17 PM
RE: The energy of ill will shargrol 4/29/24 10:58 AM
RE: The energy of ill will Jim Smith 4/29/24 4:34 PM
RE: The energy of ill will Todo 4/29/24 4:45 PM
RE: The energy of ill will Jim Smith 4/29/24 5:52 PM
RE: The energy of ill will Jim Smith 5/1/24 12:38 AM
RE: The energy of ill will shargrol 5/1/24 5:53 AM
RE: The energy of ill will Jim Smith 5/1/24 11:50 AM
RE: The energy of ill will Pepe · 4/29/24 9:13 PM
RE: The energy of ill will Sha-Man! Geoffrey 4/29/24 6:34 PM
RE: The energy of ill will Stirling Campbell 4/29/24 6:37 PM
RE: The energy of ill will Robert L. 4/29/24 7:49 PM
RE: The energy of ill will Robert L. 4/29/24 9:00 PM
RE: The energy of ill will Bahiya Baby 4/30/24 8:04 PM
RE: The energy of ill will Papa Che Dusko 5/1/24 3:39 AM
RE: The energy of ill will shargrol 5/1/24 5:50 AM
RE: The energy of ill will Bahiya Baby 5/1/24 6:14 AM
RE: The energy of ill will Papa Che Dusko 5/1/24 6:52 AM
RE: The energy of ill will Ni Nurta 5/1/24 8:05 AM
RE: The energy of ill will Papa Che Dusko 5/1/24 3:57 PM
RE: The energy of ill will Ni Nurta 5/3/24 1:40 AM
RE: The energy of ill will Bahiya Baby 5/1/24 4:38 PM
RE: The energy of ill will Jim Smith 5/1/24 8:40 PM
RE: The energy of ill will Jim Smith 5/2/24 4:15 AM
RE: The energy of ill will shargrol 5/2/24 6:23 AM
RE: The energy of ill will Jim Smith 5/2/24 9:33 AM
RE: The energy of ill will Nik 5/4/24 11:04 AM
shargrol, modified 17 Days ago at 4/29/24 7:59 AM
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The energy of ill will

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I was doing this this morning as I lay in bed, remember how much of my sitting practice and retreat time included this kind of work... for what it's worth, I found this a very important practice/skill to explore and develop:

1. get established in sitting meditation
2. look for any thought/feeling of ill will within experience
3. follow that thought/feeling to the actual sensations that are yucky, inadequate, negative, unappealing... 
4. keeping the attention on the sensation, include a broader sense of awareness/space -- feel the ill will as it is and where it is
5. adjust to have as a complete experience of the ill will within experience as possible

Ill will is a kind of symbolic avoidance habit. "I don't like that thing way over there."  It tries to ignore part of experience and identifies with the other part of experience. But the ironic thing is, you are already experiencing it --- to ignore something you have to be aware of it. So what ignoring really does is waste energy, cut yourself off from information, and gives you a false feeling of security.

Using your attention to "find" ill will and holding it within awareness allows that little habit-dynamic of ignoring to release itself, which give you more bandwidth for attention/awareness --- so it becomes a positive feedback loop.

In a very interesting way, ill will itself is sort of a guide to where your psyche is dead/dormant/stagnating. So all you need to do is go there.

The trick, however, is not to have ill will toward ill will or try to "fix" ill will. Both of those reactions are close-but-wrong approaches. The path and the goal is to have as complete an experience of the sensations of ill will as possible and allow the sensations to be how ever they are. No manipulation. Just a complete experience without any intent to change anything.

You sort of love your ill will like you love yourself, because it really is a part of ourself (that we normally try to disown and distance). And if you don't love yourself, there you go: find those sensations where they are and hold it in awareness and have a complete experience of it. You simply keep doing that.


Probably obvious stuff and maybe not worth mentioning. But I was remembering this morning that about 80+% of my progress in meditition occured with this flavor of technique. 

This is worth what you paid for it! emoticon
Todo, modified 17 Days ago at 4/29/24 10:50 AM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Shargol, my brother, 

life is short, don't waste your time cleaning the mirror. 
there's no mirror! 
shargrol, modified 17 Days ago at 4/29/24 10:58 AM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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???
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Ni Nurta, modified 17 Days ago at 4/29/24 3:17 PM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Any cases of ill will need to be handle with uttermost priority and attention.<br /><br />ps. When mirrors starts being mean I think the issue might not be with mirrors themselves ;)<br />And to make it deeper and dharmastic - if our non-dual mind is mirror then what do it reflects?
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Jim Smith, modified 16 Days ago at 4/29/24 4:34 PM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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shargrol
???

It's like asking, "Who has ill will?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huineng

Fifth Patriarch summoned all his followers and proposed a poem contest for his followers to demonstrate the stage of their understanding of the essence of mind. He decided to pass down his robe and teachings to the winner of the contest, who would become the Sixth Patriarch.[11] Shenxiu, the leading disciple of the Fifth Patriarch, composed a stanza, but did not have the courage to present it to the master. Instead, he wrote his stanza on the south corridor wall to remain anonymous one day at midnight. The other monks saw the stanza and commended it. Shenxiu's stanza is as follows:[13]

The body is the bodhi tree.
The mind is like a bright mirror's stand.
At all times we must strive to polish it
and must not let dust collect.[note 1]

...
Two days later, the illiterate Huineng heard Shenxiu's stanza being chanted by a young attendant at the monastery and inquired about the context of the poem. The attendant explained to him the poem contest and the transmission of the robe and Dharma.[11] Huineng asked to be led to the corridor, where he could also pay homage to the stanza. He asked a low-ranking official named Zhang Riyong from Jiangzhou to read the verse to him, and then immediately asked him to write down a stanza that he composed.[14]

According to McRae, "the earliest version of the Platform Sutra contains two versions of Huineng's verse. Later version contain one version of Huineng's stanza, somewhat different from the two older ones:[15]

Bodhi originally has no tree.
The mirror has no stand.
The Buddha-nature is always clear and pure.
Where is there room for dust?

The mind is the bodhi tree.
The body is the bright mirror's stand.
The bright mirror is originally clear and pure.
Where could there be any dust?

Bodhi originally has no tree.
The bright mirror also has no stand.
Fundamentally there is not a single thing.
Where could dust arise?[note 2]

The followers who were present were astonished by the work of a southern barbarian. Being cautious of Huineng's status, the Patriarch wiped away the stanza and claimed that the author of the stanza had not reached enlightenment.[11]

...

However, on the next day, the Patriarch secretly went to Huineng's room and asked, "Should not a seeker after the Dharma risk his life this way?" Then he asked, "is the rice ready?" Huineng responded that the rice was ready and only waiting to be sieved.[11] The Patriarch secretly explained the Diamond Sutra to Huineng, and when Huineng heard the phrase "one should activate one’s mind so it has no attachment," he was "suddenly and completely enlightened, and understood that all things exist in self-nature."[11]

The Dharma was passed to Huineng at night, when the Patriarch transmitted "the doctrine of sudden enlightenment" as well as his robe and bowl to Huineng. He told Huineng, “You are now the Sixth Patriarch. Take care of yourself, save as many sentient beings as you can, and spread the teachings so they will not be lost in the future.[11]

Escape from monastery
He also explained to Huineng that the Dharma was transmitted from mind to mind, whereas the robe was passed down physically from one patriarch to the next. Hongren instructed the Sixth Patriarch to leave the monastery before he could be harmed. "You can stop at Huai and then hide yourself at Hui."[11] Hongren showed Huineng the route to leave the monastery, and rowed Huineng across the river to assist his escape. Huineng immediately responded with a clear understanding of Hongren's purpose in doing so, and demonstrated that he could ferry to "the other shore" with the Dharma that had been transmitted to him.[11]

The Sixth Patriarch reached the Tayu Mountains within two months, and realized that hundreds of men were following him, attempting to rob him of the robe and bowl. However, the robe and bowl could not be moved by Huiming, who then asked for the transmission of Dharma from Huineng. Huineng helped him reach enlightenment and continued on his journey.[11]
Todo, modified 16 Days ago at 4/29/24 4:45 PM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Ill will is perfectly ok,
​​​​​​​but that's not something some"one" can have a perfect experience of. 
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Jim Smith, modified 16 Days ago at 4/29/24 5:52 PM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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shargrol
...

The trick, however, is not to have ill will toward ill will or try to "fix" ill will. Both of those reactions are close-but-wrong approaches. The path and the goal is to have as complete an experience of the sensations of ill will as possible and allow the sensations to be how ever they are. No manipulation. Just a complete experience without any intent to change anything.

You sort of love your ill will like you love yourself, because it really is a part of ourself (that we normally try to disown and distance). And if you don't love yourself, there you go: find those sensations where they are and hold it in awareness and have a complete experience of it. You simply keep doing that.

...


Right, disliking the ill will only makes more ill will (ill will toward ill will). So it's better to accept it than to suppress it, I find loving it, owning it, accepting it, surrender, is like relaxing into a familiar old comfortable chair. Samatha techniques can help, just calming meditation on the breath, metta, jhana, afterglow, relaxing meditation. Not to replace the ill will with something nice, but to make room in your heart for it (for example metta towards the ill will (your ill-willing self) and the person triggering it).

But ill will is not caused by the person who is upsetting you. It is caused by your attachment to something else that the object of ill will is triggering or threatening.

And if you can understand what that attachment is (not always easy, but a complete experience of the ill will can help uncover associations that can often lead through layers of emotions but ultimately to attachment to the self-image), you might be able to let go of the attachment (not always easy), and the ill will might go away too.

And without ill will you would be able to deal with the situation with compassion and reason rather than with ill will.
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Pepe ·, modified 16 Days ago at 4/29/24 9:13 PM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Funny you mention it Shargrol, I'm practicing something similar. Not starting from ill-will but from the "avoidance habit", and focusing on body sensations in the chest and head, as that's where my main knots are. Once noticed some kind of fuzzy uneasyness/tension/knot, the second thing to note is that that knot is a moving target (within some range). So I relax the whole thing, the edges dissolve and the center comes to "foreground". I plunge into it. There's (edit: an energy build-up, then a) split second gap and then there's a physical release for 1/2 second or so, not more than a second, usually a ultra-fast shake/tremor.  Only a few times there's a nice afterglow, usually it's done and that's it, no insight to pick up. This happens many many times on-cushion. As for now, off-cushion happens very little, at the chest only. But I've noticed it's curbing my tendency to relax (brush aside) uncomfortable sensations, so that's a plus. Months ago I noticed how silence (an example of a neutral sensation) had increasingly become available. So next step may be finally embracing pleasant sensations emoticon 
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Sha-Man! Geoffrey, modified 16 Days ago at 4/29/24 6:34 PM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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I've found myself doing this a good amount recently in meditation. A lot of the times I meditating, and something vary salient has my attention but there is ill will going on in the background, and its like my mind feels it but isnt truthfully acknowledging it and so it builds and colors the whole experience (until attention goes there and then it slowly melts).
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Stirling Campbell, modified 16 Days ago at 4/29/24 6:37 PM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Shargrol,

I brilliant distillation of so many more cumbersome practices... but the first thing that comes to mind is Michael Singer's "Untethered Soul", something I found useful for dropping tons of obscurations. 

Something along these lines was and is still my practice when something sticky, which these days is mostly just a "strange" mental or body feeling,  comes up. Liberate all dharmas! emoticon

_/\_
Robert L, modified 16 Days ago at 4/29/24 7:49 PM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Beautiful. "follow that thought/feeling to the actual sensations that are yucky, inadequate, negative, unappealing.."  Go to the feeling! Yes!
Robert L, modified 16 Days ago at 4/29/24 9:00 PM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Ill will. Judgement. That feeling of, NO, I don't like that person. The separation! It is a FEELING. An experience that should be felt, digested, and released. 
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Bahiya Baby, modified 15 Days ago at 4/30/24 8:04 PM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Nice !! Thank you  emoticon
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Jim Smith, modified 15 Days ago at 5/1/24 12:38 AM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Jim Smith

...

But ill will is not caused by the person who is upsetting you. It is caused by your attachment to something else that the object of ill will is triggering or threatening.

And if you can understand what that attachment is (not always easy, but a complete experience of the ill will can help uncover associations that can often lead through layers of emotions but ultimately to attachment to the self-image), you might be able to let go of the attachment (not always easy), and the ill will might go away too.


Another thing that can help in accepting emotions like ill will, is to notice and feel completely any egoic attachments to nice feelings (some of which are produced by meditation) and aversions to unpleasant feelings that might be triggered by the ill will and get mixed up with it.

Untangling the furball of associated emotions can be part of experiencing it completely. You can experience the emotion, how it feels in the mind and body, and you can also try to understand the causes that produce it. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 15 Days ago at 5/1/24 3:39 AM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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What I've got from this thread so far is: 

1. angry neurons
2. no "one" to get angry
3. Angry needs relaxation meditation

I even brought pop-corn this time!
​​​​​​​Here! emoticon Want some shargrol?! 
shargrol, modified 15 Days ago at 5/1/24 5:53 AM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Jim Smith
Untangling the furball of associated emotions can be part of experiencing it completely. 


Thanks for "untangling the furball" -- gave me a good chuckle! emoticon

And yes I agree, ultimately everything needs to get untangled, nice feelings and aversions and even neutral sensations, too. And another sneaky one: treating neutral sensations as unimportant... which is a subtle form of ill will.
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shargrol, modified 15 Days ago at 5/1/24 5:50 AM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Papa Che Dusko

I even brought pop-corn this time!
​​​​​​​Here! emoticon Want some shargrol?! 

No worries papa, when I posted this I knew there would be a range of attitudes/orientations. (Is this too simple a practice, too advanced a practice, an unnecessary practice, a distraction from other good practices...) But I thought it was pretty essential so I figured I would mention it. 

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Bahiya Baby, modified 15 Days ago at 5/1/24 6:14 AM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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The Buddha said there is suffering. 

Neither clinging to suffering nor rejecting it is the middle way. 

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Papa Che Dusko, modified 15 Days ago at 5/1/24 6:52 AM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Bahiya Baby
The Buddha said there is suffering. 

Neither clinging to suffering nor rejecting it is the middle way. 

​​​​​​​
Bahiya Babe emoticon If you also want pop-corn all you need is ask emoticon 
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Ni Nurta, modified 15 Days ago at 5/1/24 8:05 AM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Changes I would make in OP list would be
1 - replace sitting meditation with mindfulness
5 - generally this point should be in 4th as it feels like repetition
Another point I would make would be to cease activity of the affected part of mind. One cannot effectively meditate on actively used parts of mind.
3rd and 4th Noble Truths are exactly what I just said.
Of course by cease activity I mean the most skillful method available for given case.
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Jim Smith, modified 15 Days ago at 5/1/24 11:50 AM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Jim Smith
...

Another thing that can help in accepting emotions like ill will, is to notice and feel completely any egoic attachments to nice feelings (some of which are produced by meditation) and aversions to unpleasant feelings that might be triggered by the ill will and get mixed up with it.

Untangling the furball of associated emotions can be part of experiencing it completely. You can experience the emotion, how it feels in the mind and body, and you can also try to understand the causes that produce it. 


It is right to accept emotions in the sense that you allow yourself to experience them and understand their causes, how they feel in your body etc. and welcome them rather than resist/resent them (because resistance/resentment just makes the situation worse).

But in another sense it can be helpful to understand that emotions are delusions that arise from the aggregates which are not really trying to make you happy. The aggregates produce contradictions like making you crave rich food and hate gaining weight at the same time. You can't satisfy the aggregates, they aren't rational. If you've ever found meditation elevates your mood, practiced metta, or jhanas or experienced the afterglow of fruition, or just felt jovial after a big meal, you know emotions are "flexible". They aren't reality. In that sense you shouldn't just blindly accept whatever emotions the aggregates dish up. In some situations emotions are just a habit, we are in the habit of accepting blindly whatever the aggregates produce, but I think it's possible to give up that habit. If you know a meditation technique that elevates your mood, you have a tool to help you to learn to let go of emotions without suppressing them.

Sometimes just taking a second to remember you don't have to take everything the aggregates dish out is enough to help you let go of the emotion - particularly if you have an idea of what the alternative feels like, remembering an emotion is similar enough to really feeling it.

I've found that emotions which are particularly hard to let go of, have not yet been fully untangled and need more accepting than bubble bursting. So I think each case has to be handled on an individual basis.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 14 Days ago at 5/1/24 3:57 PM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Ni Nurta Changes I would make in OP list would be 1 - replace sitting meditation with mindfulness 5 - generally this point should be in 4th as it feels like repetition Another point I would make would be to cease activity of the affected part of mind. One cannot effectively meditate on actively used parts of mind. 3rd and 4th Noble Truths are exactly what I just said. Of course by cease activity I mean the most skillful method available for given case.
Hm ... I would say the "actively used mind" is in and of itself awakened or not. No need to cease any activity. To want/try to cease it is to believe that you are in charge of all THIS. It seems you believe one needs "a method" to be awaken? One needs tools/methods to be awakened? So its an active pursuit? If I drop the guard I get gored like Bahiya?

To add; I thought sitting meditation as in Noting or Satipathanna IS mindfulness, no?
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Bahiya Baby, modified 14 Days ago at 5/1/24 4:38 PM
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It can be easier to practice with the dukkha that bothers us than the dukkha we ignore and meditation is quite a powerful thing it can become a way to ignore as opposed to investigate. In my experience. 
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Jim Smith, modified 14 Days ago at 5/1/24 8:40 PM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Bahiya Baby
It can be easier to practice with the dukkha that bothers us than the dukkha we ignore and meditation is quite a powerful thing it can become a way to ignore as opposed to investigate. In my experience. 


I agree. But suppressing emotions usually produces tension - that's why relaxation is an important facet of meditation. Every technique can be done in a way that causes tension or it can be done in a relaxing way. Ignoring this allows space for unconsciously suppressing emotions. That is what I find to be the distinction between suppressing and letting go. Letting go involves relaxing and suppressing involves tension.
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Jim Smith, modified 14 Days ago at 5/2/24 4:15 AM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Maybe it would clarify things if I explain exactly what I do ... in the ideal case ...

I get up in the morning and do my morning routine, 1) relaxing meditation to let go of emotions, and 2) meditation on the breath to quiet mental turbulence. This usually puts me in a pleasant mood. At this point I have two of the three qualities Shinzen Young likes to talk about, equanimity, and concentration.  (The third quality, clarity, I develop either through mindfulness in daily life, or vipassana meditation.) 

Then 3) I try go about daily life mindfully watching the activity of my mind and if dukkha arises, I welcome it by relaxing into it. I notice how it feels in my mind and body (is there tension?) and I try to understand the cause of the emotion, I look for layers of emotions, ego involvement, attachment to nice emotions/sensations, aversion to unpleasant emotions/sensation. Surrender sometimes means acknowledging unpleasant truths about yourself you would rather not acknowledge. While I am doing this I try to stay mindful and not get lost in thought or carried away by emotions, understanding the problem is my reaction not the situation. As Shinzen Young might say, not pushing away, not getting pulled in.

Then I see if I can just relax, let go of the emotion, get back to my pleasant mood, remembering the facts of anatta, observations of anatta in my own mind, or noticing feelings of anatta. This is very gentle, mild, subtle, it isn't anything close to full jhana or full metta. I call it disengaging the ego. It can feel like the self is dissolving but it is really just disengaging the ego (in my view the "self" is the various different unconscious processes that are the source of thoughts, emotions, impulses, sensory experience and sense of self and no-self (ie the pixels of consciousness) and that doesn't dissolve, what dissolves is the self-image those processes project into conciousness)

I try to avoid forcing emotions away with tension, which is suppression. I try to always relax to avoid suppression. If the emotion sticks around, I continue to observe it until it fades or I get distracted and it fades when I am not looking. 

If I am doing sitting meditation and dukkha arises I do pretty much the same thing except my experience of anatta is much clearer and I see/feel the ego involvement much more clearly and the contrast between ego and anatta can cause the unpleasant emotion to go "poof!" like matter and antimatter annihlating each other, or like when they crash a computer in a science fiction movie by drawing it's attention to a logical contradiction. (You see/feel the emotion is caused by a threat to the self-image and also that the self-image isn't a real thing it is a projection from the same non-rational impersonal dubious source that makes you crave rich food and fear gaining weight at the same time.) I can be meditating in the middle of an ongoing unpleasant situation that triggers a hot button issue, and after the "poof!" the unpleasant aspect of reality is totally gone, I wonder that the situation ever bothered me ... until life distracts me and I get triggered again and I have to go through the process again.
shargrol, modified 14 Days ago at 5/2/24 6:23 AM
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RE: The energy of ill will

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Sounds very good Jim. 



That reminds me... One thing I found very helpful is to do a sitting practice right before going to bed. Same sort of approach, allow stuff to arise and pass, but if something is difficult or sticky, then rest attention on it while allowing it to exist as it is. This allows any residual stuff from the day to bubble up into consciousness and my mind is much cleaner before it goes to sleep -- promoting a very good and deep sleep.

And while it's true that sometimes problems from the day bubble up into consciousness and honestly can create some turmoil... but my theory is that it's better to do this before going to sleep, because it would probably just bubble up later during sleep and mess it up. So sometimes sits make me hot/flushed and I need to digest some psychological material and maybe I'm up just a little bit later... but I think it all prepares me for much better rest/recovery so it's worth it. 

And on the progress of insight side of things, the mind seems to soften its egoic (clinging/avoiding) at night which tends to put people into a more jhanic/equanimous state, which is helpful for most people. Morning sits, when the mind is bright and clear, can sometimes have too much analytic thinking which covers up the subtle stuff. Evening sits tend to be more about subtle sensations and emotions --- the mind is too tired to think. emoticon
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Jim Smith, modified 14 Days ago at 5/2/24 9:33 AM
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But wait, there's more....

The 400 pound gorilla in the room that no one is talking about, at least in my opinion is: biochemical context.

Because every once in a while I can get a little depressed and be feeling an old familiar emotion that I think I have to finally come to terms with, to sit with and accept, to surrender to. etc. etc. Jhana does't work, metta doesn't work, relaxation can help.

And then I have a big meal and it cheers me up all that angst is forgotten, it's irrelevant, meaningless. An hour ago I thought if I can accept this my life will be so much better, and an hour later all that would seem like a delusion if I gave it a moments thought.

So this is partly why I have a very deep distrust of emotions. They are not reality. Some emotions I need to explore and dig up, and accept etc etc, but it's hard to tell which ones are the ones that require attention and which are the ones that are just a symptom of some biochemical fluctuation in the brain and would be better to ignore.

I think meditation is like the fine adjustment knob on a microscope that you use when you are just about in focus and need to fine tune it. The coarse adjustment knob for serious work in ending suffering is living quietly (dana and sila are the five ton elephant in the room no one is talking about) and keeping the mind/body fueled and healthy. I think that's one reason people find meditation is inconsistent or they get lost on the map. The map only shows a tiny part of the entire territory. 


https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.036.than.html
"I thought: 'I recall once, when my father the Sakyan was working, and I was sitting in the cool shade of a rose-apple tree, then — quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful mental qualities — I entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. Could that be the path to Awakening?' Then following on that memory came the realization: 'That is the path to Awakening.' I thought: 'So why am I afraid of that pleasure that has nothing to do with sensuality, nothing to do with unskillful mental qualities?' I thought: 'I am no longer afraid of that pleasure that has nothing to do with sensuality, nothing to do with unskillful mental qualities, but that pleasure is not easy to achieve with a body so extremely emaciated. Suppose I were to take some solid food: some rice & porridge.' So I took some solid food: some rice & porridge. 
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Ni Nurta, modified 13 Days ago at 5/3/24 1:40 AM
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RE: The energy of ill will

Posts: 1143 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
Papa Che Dusko
Hm ... I would say the "actively used mind" is in and of itself awakened or not. No need to cease any activity.

You cannot effectively meditate on part of mind you are using as a part of normal activity.

I know it sounds meta.
One thing is that meditation is sitting and doing nothing but now something about mind which meditates also has to be inactive.
It's bonkers!

Mindfulness if such thing even exists is bonkers too I tell ya!

To want/try to cease it is to believe that you are in charge of all THIS. It seems you believe one needs "a method" to be awaken? One needs tools/methods to be awakened? So its an active pursuit?

The issue with mindfulness is that we are scared of it.
We don't want to be conscious.
We all were and we all abandoned it. Why?
Too much control so too many things can go wrong. Then we contract and believe bad system but which works is better than something which can go wrong... yeah, it doesn't make any sense but that is where we are and why we don't let ourselves even little mindfulness.

Since I would contradict all the incorrectly interpreted dharma in the last two and a half millennia I'll maybe not confess what I use to play with my mind to study it and get to know it better, how it ticks and just call it how Buddha called it - mindfulness.

Methods never awakened anyone. There is a struggle in mind which doesn't make any sense given struggle with what. Methods can make mind think it won. Its an appearance and one much easier done with mindfulness if one choose to have it to study it. If person really believes appearances they are not awakened.

I don't think people who claim awakening are awakened because I never felt it and they never even understood how the things I describe could ever be possible to be understood like they lacked mindfulness - the same mindfulness I use to study myself. Everyone has it but not everyone chooses to use it. Even this wouldn't necessarily mean anything but for various ways one can interpret Stream Entry analyzing it from another way only makes it all seem more obvious. Personally my mindfulness reached the stream, I am stream enterer and I have full confidence in Buddha - which is my mindfulness and don't do any ascetic BS. Studying my mind playing with it is not asceticism. My views are very flexible too - estimations based on weights and not rigid views with need for experience of certainty. Mind likes it better that way, it removes the stress out of the equations - why was it done differently? Well, the struggle with mindfulness necessitate oomph...

...anyways to get real awakening one doesn't need any methods. The real flipping of the perspective can happen any time mindfulness chose to exist.

ps.
If I drop the guard I get gored like Bahiya?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJMwBwFj5nQ
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Nik, modified 12 Days ago at 5/4/24 11:04 AM
Created 12 Days ago at 5/4/24 11:04 AM

RE: The energy of ill will

Posts: 55 Join Date: 8/12/14 Recent Posts
This is basically what I do when I meditate. I'm a lazy meditator and got fed up with muscle tensions that would pop up when focusing on the breath so i try to keep a basic awareness of the senses in the moment and then sorta just watch for thoughts/feelings/attitude/aversion/desire/etc. Those are usually interesting to me and the curiousity itself can increase my level of focus/awareness. Sometimes certain negative feelings that are pretty subtle just drop away upon seeing their associated tension in the mind, other times not and I still wonder how to "relax" them. But then if I want to relax something it usually means there's another desire/aversion there I need to see. I sorta naturally found this style long ago and after that found Sayadaw Tejaniya's teachings which I vibed with well.

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