Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Bahiya Baby 6/2/24 4:27 AM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Martin 6/2/24 2:43 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back finding-oneself ♤ 6/2/24 3:54 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Papa Che Dusko 6/3/24 6:34 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Bahiya Baby 6/3/24 7:15 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Bahiya Baby 6/7/24 11:26 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back finding-oneself ♤ 6/3/24 9:51 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Papa Che Dusko 6/4/24 6:42 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back shargrol 6/8/24 7:04 AM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back shargrol 6/9/24 4:35 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Bahiya Baby 6/15/24 5:05 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Bahiya Baby 6/27/24 7:41 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Bahiya Baby 6/27/24 7:50 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Bahiya Baby 6/28/24 3:17 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Chris M 6/28/24 4:18 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Bahiya Baby 6/29/24 5:42 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Bahiya Baby 7/7/24 5:53 AM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Martin 7/7/24 12:26 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Chris M 7/8/24 7:40 AM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Bahiya Baby 7/11/24 3:46 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Chris M 7/12/24 7:53 AM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Bahiya Baby 7/11/24 4:06 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Bahiya Baby 7/11/24 4:01 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back shargrol 6/28/24 4:26 PM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back shargrol 7/7/24 7:07 AM
RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back Papa Che Dusko 7/9/24 3:56 AM
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Bahiya Baby, modified 1 Month ago at 6/2/24 4:27 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 6/2/24 4:27 AM

Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

Posts: 555 Join Date: 5/26/23 Recent Posts
I haven't really been practicing much. I got hit by inspiration and had to spend as much time as I could making music for awhile. My inclination to practice and actually do good practice has returned. I think it's important to let myself do regular life stuff from time to time because I pushed pretty hard through the first couple paths and that involved some "heroic" and rather alienating doses of meditation. It's good to cut loose and shake a few tail feathers.

So... I will start a new log in hopes that I might stick with it. 

In practice and more and more throughout the day I notice the self activity falls away and there's a softening of the heart and an opening of the senses. The thing I enjoy the most about it is that my heart, breath, chest all come to rest and just do their thing. I tend to practice in this state because I can just be with the world and my experience in a very natural "just right" kind of way. It is also easy to see the selfish activity that remains. Mainly just a certain looping narrator that picks up and falls away over and over and also sometimes an urge to strategise and schedule. Sometimes it's like watching a movie when the audio glitches out and isn't in time with the image. Or like... the ridiculousness of having some voice in my head narrate shit to me that I already know, have already cognized, sensed, experienced. ... The absurdity.... THE AUDACITY !!! 

I'm really just working with that edge. Being as open and restful as I can without ignoring the remaining dissatisfaction. (Soften, include, relax). There's a strange tension to practice in some sense, in the juxtaposition of great restfulness and the annoyance of subtle dissatisfaction. I'm not trying to avoid this but as I said, soften, include and even lean in a little. 

If this thing I'm pointing at is natural mind, or whatever, what's interesting about it, is that it's so real and obvious and normal that it can be super tempting to be like "well, hey this is it" but the more I "supress" or ignore dukkha the less I can be in this natural way of being. 

Yeah... the juxtaposition is interesting. 

Woooo Bahiya 2 Baby !!!!! Lets go !!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Martin, modified 1 Month ago at 6/2/24 2:43 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 6/2/24 2:43 PM

RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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Or like... the ridiculousness of having some voice in my head narrate shit to me that I already know, have already cognized, sensed, experienced. ... The absurdity.... THE AUDACITY !!! 

​​​​​​​That brings to mind Daniel's Kazzo player. 
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finding-oneself ♤, modified 1 Month ago at 6/2/24 3:54 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 6/2/24 3:54 PM

RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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Omg. You guys are killing me with the log names. XD  HAHAHAHA
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Month ago at 6/3/24 6:34 PM
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RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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Slainte, for your new log! emoticon 
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Bahiya Baby, modified 1 Month ago at 6/3/24 7:15 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 6/3/24 7:12 PM

RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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A warning... We're working out our dilligence with salvation here so there will be no messing, no shooting the breeze and absolutely no "joking around" on this log. Very serious, very uptight, very dry meditation discussion is all that's allowed. NO FUN !!! NO RAMBLING NONSENSE !!! NO COMEDIC CHARACATERIZATIONS OF EGOIC PROCESSES !!!

This goes for you too Bahiya ... !!!
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finding-oneself ♤, modified 1 Month ago at 6/3/24 9:51 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 6/3/24 9:51 PM

RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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HAHAHA
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 1 Month ago at 6/4/24 6:42 PM
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RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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Bahiya Baby, modified 1 Month ago at 6/7/24 11:26 PM
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RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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Doing 40 or so mins a day
Will bump that up to 2 sessions per day soon. Naturally inclining toward more practice which is good. 

There are periods of restlessness and clarity. The periods of restlessness are tough. The mind is scattered, obsessing over motivation, inspiration, creativity. Very difficult to concentrate. 

The periods of clarity are nice, for obvious reasons, but interesting because it seems I can see the root dilemma, the backwards self referencing process, this activity that takes like a slice of experience and starts winding up fantasy's around it. At first clarity was so interesting on its own I only saw this process obliquely. Now I'm starting to see it more clearly. I just watch it stop and start. Contract and relax. This is the edge that I need to practice at. Light touch, vigilant senses

Practice at this point seems to be all about gentle, consistent concentration. Just staying tuned into the groove of insight. I don't know how else to say it. 

During periods of clarity the three characteristics are sort of already there, through all the senses, just kind of implicit in the experience so it's really just about letting that continue to occur. No interference mostly but subtly keeping an eye on the self referencing back tracking fabrication machine. There between my eyes. It's spooky man. That subtle realization that you're looking at a reflection, like realizing youve been talking to a hallucination. 

I feel ready for this next leg of the journey. A few months ago I was not ready. I was a bit apprehensive, a bit avoidant, a bit lazy. It's time now. 
shargrol, modified 1 Month ago at 6/8/24 7:04 AM
Created 1 Month ago at 6/8/24 6:45 AM

RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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Sounds really good. 

It's really hard to talk about this phase of practice. Something deep is figuring this all out, but there is also a need for "me" to participate by formally practicing which allows us to stumble on the kind of quality data that fuels the developing understanding. And yet, what is formal practice at this stage? It's barely more than intending to be aware of how attention works within awareness for a pre-determined amount of time. But if we don't lend ourselves to practicing like this, it's really unlikely we'll wake up. Habits of mind are so strong...

There is clinging and there is resistance... and there seems to be a hint of what it would be like to be beyond this grabbing-onto and this pushing-away. The trick --- as always --- is to look directly INTO this grabbing and pushing away rather than search for something that must be missing. The answer is in the dukka itself, there is a misunderstanding somewhere in there. Enlightenment is realizing the misunderstanding in dukka, rather than realizing an understanding outside of dukka.

That's why those dukka-ish "no clarity" sits are really important. Awareness is still there even though there is apparently no attention. We "know" there is no clarity, awareness knows there is no attention. This is perhaps most spooky of all, because we personally identify with clear-knowing and feel that "I" am lost when there is no clarity. Very interesting, what is making this assessment? I am lost. What is I and what is lost? Where is the problem I think I'm having?

When we first start practicing, we are so identified with the body that if there is discomfort or disturbance, we think "I'm not meditating well". Then the body relaxes and becomes tranquil and we think "now I can really pay attention to my mind, I'm learning to meditate well!" The knowing mind can become so strong that the body can be in turmoil (e.g. in the midst of turbulent reobservation or in the midst of a nasty inter-personal argument), but as long as the knowing mind is strong we say "I am meditating well" and "I am fully present". The last stage is nearly impossible to describe because the body can be in turmoil and the mind can be completely confused, but there is a growing realization that awarness itself is still there and even in this chaos "I am still meditating well!, even though we couldn't explain why we still think so.  

The enlightened mind is really good at being home in uncertainty.

It's also really important not to assume there will be constant progress. Somedays there will be deep juicy sits and you can just soak in jhana. Somedays there will be diamond-like clarity and you can vipassina the heck out of the subtlest sense impressions. And other days you just need to sit through a bunch of noise. My teacher at the time used the metaphor, "sometimes you feel good and you put on your pack and grab your rifle and go hunting deep into the mountains... and sometimes you go down the street and buy some hamburger meat at the grocery." emoticon

All of these are important experiences to soak in. The good, bad, and ugly experiences all leave an hard-to-describe impression which gets refined into wisdom/awakening. And the mind seems to evoke what is needed in sort of a shadow psychology way --- we unconsciously get attracted to what we superficially don't want to experience because somehow know deep down we need to to experience it to gain power/wisdom. To face our overblown fears. To crumble our false persona. (Which evokes the fear-of-annilation instinct, which is spooky and eventually funny -- how many times do we have to experience "I think I'm gonna die?!" in meditation??? emoticon )

​​​​​​​“I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened.” ― Mark Twain
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This can get pretty humbling at times, we can feel like a beginner meditator all over again. 



Best wishes!!
shargrol, modified 1 Month ago at 6/9/24 4:35 PM
Created 1 Month ago at 6/9/24 4:35 PM

RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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p.s. if you haven't read "Seeing that frees", it might be a good time for it. I personally don't like the "voice" of the writing, but the content is very very very good. Jump around to the sections that seem to draw you in -- don't try to read it from front to back. 

(as always, just my opinion and people pay me.... well nothing... for my opinions. Which is about what they are worth.  emoticon  )
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Bahiya Baby, modified 26 Days ago at 6/15/24 5:05 PM
Created 26 Days ago at 6/15/24 5:04 PM

RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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Practice is continuing to pick up. A number of decent length sessions everyday. 

I guess the crux of practice now is attention. In the earlier stages of meditation you sort of use attention to be aware of or "attend" to awareness (aware of awareness). Then third path is when you start to recognize oh I'm attached to attention and maybe can afford to loosen my grip on it a little. Now it's like noticing I don't need to pay attention to be aware and that chronic attending actually creates suffering.  Further I find that I can practice and have the sense of attention fall away which is what I think caused some of the earlier fireworks I experienced with this path but I notice now that when attention drops off what remains is the oddest dukkha. It's like a nebulous tension. It's I suppose somewhere in the head but is also kind of impossible to point directly at. It can be missed if things have more of an A&P type hue or if I'm basking in something nice but it is there.

The only thing I feel I should add to practice is a little metta.

I have read seeing that frees but I will flick through some chapters. I do find when I read it I tend towards over saturating experience with emptiness which can be nice in a jhanic way and useful when mind is busy but I've been more inclined to a "just be with it" style of practice. I know there's some things deep into the book that it may be useful for me to reread. I will keep flicking through. 

Adi Da used to talk about divine ignorance. Ignorance is obviously a tricky subject when you're talking with Buddhists but there is a sort of "ignoring the impulse to chronically attend to things" that allows one to become more immediately aware. 

Emptiness can be a bit God realm. I try work with it the way a drop of dye hits a body of water. One can be tempted into seeking emptiness and when practice becomes seeking emptiness it feels like it's missing the point of where im at. 

​​​​​​​I feel the edge I'm working at is a super subtle intention to include everything, a tacit or implicit recognition of emptiness/3cs like the body mind can be allowed to just do that itself without direction. I don't have to direct the investigation at all. This is where the falling away of attention occurs. So then I notice what still judges the experience. What still tries to start up patterns of activity because it has determined that something is wrong with experience. Noticing the subtle difference between attention dissolving and attending to no attention 
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Bahiya Baby, modified 14 Days ago at 6/27/24 7:41 PM
Created 14 Days ago at 6/27/24 7:13 PM

RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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A lot has happened since I last posted. Some really well defined path cycles, some nuclear world melting states, I found myself having to really square up to SENSUAL DESIRE (sex teehee), I was looking at the roots of craving and reactivity etc etc etc. 

The usual shite. 

Anyway ... I was practicing recently and I was struck by the question what does it mean for suffering and impermanence to arise without a self. Then I saw a dependent link between the three characteristics. If impermanence then suffering and no self and all the various permutations of that. 

Which seemed significant but in many respects is actually just the same insight I've been having throughout this path. It just fractals and deepens as my mind seems to clear up. 

It often seems that I'm debunking the notions that permanence, satisfaction of self can be found. Like I'll have a meditation session where it's immediately obvious that there's no self or permanence but something is looking for satisfaction. And on a different day it might be a different characteristic. 

There is this thing that I see the Buddha talk about in the suttas. This restraining of the senses. As though the mechanism of mind that attaches to things can just be withdrawn. I suppose this is basically an equivalent idea to Adi Da's divine ignorance. 

Practice is good but very subtle. It isn't always obvious that anything is happening. I don't feel I need to change anything or add anything to it. It really just feels like I'm letting something ripen. 

I have to say the combination of some attainments, regular exercise and disciplined regulation of sexual energy makes life a joy to live. Adi Da's approach was always very full package, encompassing almost all aspects of life. It really took me until third path to start maturing in some of these other areas of development. I have really come to understand why he would emphasize things like fitness, health, community and proper reverence for and relationship to sexual energy. 

The body is complicated and having it function well is just good, no matter how enlightened you are. Craving always leads us to degeneracy. Whether you crave sex or abstinence, money or love. Craving holds us back from expressing ourselves wholeheartedly. It contorts us into shapes of chronic discomfort and disease. 

​​​​​​​... It's weird coming to terms with my capacity to be aware without being attached to or invested in sensations 
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Bahiya Baby, modified 14 Days ago at 6/27/24 7:50 PM
Created 14 Days ago at 6/27/24 7:50 PM

RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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Impermanence comes naturally to me. Self is a little more pervasive but easy to debunk. I am a whore for pleasure though. I noticed these process that like scan my sensations to determine "is this nice" and it's funny to just start seeing through that because its happening so often 
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Bahiya Baby, modified 13 Days ago at 6/28/24 3:17 PM
Created 13 Days ago at 6/28/24 3:17 PM

RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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I've spent my whole life craving something that doesn't exist. 

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Chris M, modified 13 Days ago at 6/28/24 4:18 PM
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RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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Yeah, I had realizations that were funny, elating, and horrendous, all at once.
shargrol, modified 13 Days ago at 6/28/24 4:26 PM
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RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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+1

I can still viscerally recall when I realized that the human realm was the realm of desire... Wow -- and fuck!! All my hopes are desires emoticon  But then, oh yeah... Desires never satisfy in the end. ("I want a car! Okay, I got a car now I want an XYZ!") Okay, I get what you were saying buddha, let those desires arise and pass, don't cling...


(By the way bahiya, I can see that your insights/observations are getting very granular at this point --- that's a GREAT sign. Once you start seeing how all these threads get woven together, you also get a sense of why the whole spiritual quest gets unravelled. And then you have that "whoa" moment.)
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Bahiya Baby, modified 12 Days ago at 6/29/24 5:42 PM
Created 12 Days ago at 6/29/24 5:42 PM

RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

Posts: 555 Join Date: 5/26/23 Recent Posts
Impermanence has something to do with our relationship to time 
Suffering has something to do with our relationship to the senses 
No self has something to do with our relationship to space, or location, "point of view" 

​​​​​​​It's this point of view that wants to be debunked now. 
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Bahiya Baby, modified 5 Days ago at 7/7/24 5:53 AM
Created 5 Days ago at 7/7/24 5:53 AM

RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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So yeah, something kind of clicked with this desperate seeking for an impossible reality and practice moved on. At first I was looking at the self and that sort of evolved into investigating this need to be doing something moment to moment and then noticing "hey, I actually don't need to do anything moment to moment, there doesn't need to be a persistent agent engaged in activity, I don't even need to know what to do" 

I sort of flip in and out of realizing that. I had already seen it earlier. I think it was an Insight that led to some of my earlier holy shit experiences but now I'm investigating it in a much more day to day type of way. 

It's becoming clearer that suffering is caused by a chronic search for things to suffer about. Lol.

It's painful to admit I don't know how to do things that it's purposeful for me to do. I am compelled in certain directions and the self scrambles for like activities to busy itself in order to seem like progress is being made toward some goal. That obviously works like if I need to be fit I can go work out but there are situations where what you're after is a bit more ineffable and the means of acquiring this ineffable thing are obscure and I'm like coming to terms with this kind of ultimate unknowability. There are things I dont need to do. Things I do need to do that I can't know how they'll turn out and things I do need to do that I can't actually know how to do and things I need to do that will never get done. 
shargrol, modified 5 Days ago at 7/7/24 7:07 AM
Created 5 Days ago at 7/7/24 7:02 AM

RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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Nice, yes this is the classic "conceit" and "restlessness" flavor of fetters that becomes much more in-your-face when sensitivity is developed. An "I" always seemingly needing "to do" something, yet in a millisecond this dynamic is obvious as (very mild) dukka -- yet why do I keep falling into the habit? Even just chilling can feel kind of contrived if it yet another something that I need to do...

There is a general feeling of circling the drain --- like it's all heading somewhere as things slow down. This whole path seems to have been described and the inherent intelligence of the mind has led here... but what is next? More discipline?, maybe but that seems contrived and draining. Just living life?, maybe but there is obviously something still to get/understand. Keep going?, maybe but what is next?  Ugh, there's the "wanting something that is next" thing again. FUCK, I just did that loop again of wondering/wanting/desiring and going through a mini-dukka-loop to wind up where I started!!

The human realm truly is desire and it becomes more and more daunting how much of a tautology desire it is. But desiring to understand desire is the clever trick that allows the transcendance-and-inclusion of the human realm in the psyche... And this is a big part of seeing the conceit fetter. You could say that all the other fetters were also desire, but conceit is sort of a very granular version of desire.  Conceit is sort of "the seed". 

Time is also an interesting tautology and understanding "the time view" is a big part of seeing the restlessness fetter. I found a lot of relief from Burbea's "seeing that frees" sections on time near the back of the book. "there is no present moment", it's a fabricated idea/view we stuggle to maintain --- whoa. That's in part why we cannot "rest in the present" -- even maintaining "the present" is ultimately contrived and creates (very mild) dukka. Restlessness is sort of "the water"

It takes a lot of faith to keep trusting in the inherent intelligence of the mind and give it time to figure it out. It can be good to hang around/have conversations with people you know "have it". For me it was, what is it that Hokai has that I don't? I understand what he understands, but I know he has something that I don't. Same thing with Chris, he's done and we can have dharma conversations for hours... and I know he's done but I'm not. This also was also really a riddle when I did a short retreat with Ajahn Viradhammo - Amaravati Buddhist Monastery, he's seen it all, studied with the great teachers of our time, but he's totally normal and yet he's clearly done, what does he have that I don't have...

But the heart/mind figures it out. We have definitely been making things complicated for ourselves for a very long time... but in a very smart way that has led us through all this development and insight, so we can't complain... yet do we have to keep complicating things? Is there an easier way?

Basically yes. That's awakening. Fundamental ignorance is sort of the soil, there is no place for the seed and water to get planted without any soil. In what does conceit and restlessness exist, where is it? 

And yet even after awakening there is still weeding and gardening to do. It's just that you aren't confused about it anymore.
Martin, modified 5 Days ago at 7/7/24 12:26 PM
Created 5 Days ago at 7/7/24 12:26 PM

RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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This moment-to-moment need to do is indeed a curious thing. I notice it when I am having a particularly unwell spell and I am too unwell to think, which is distressing (not the unwell part, the not being able to think part). And then I remember that there is no need to think. Nothing needs to be solved. In most of life, there is no need to boot up an agent to, as you say, go out and search for suffering. The world keeps spinning on just fine without my agency. 
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Chris M, modified 4 Days ago at 7/8/24 7:40 AM
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RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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But the heart/mind figures it out. We have definitely been making things complicated for ourselves for a very long time... but in a very smart way that has led us through all this development and insight, so we can't complain... yet do we have to keep complicating things? Is there an easier way?

Riffing off of that quote from shargrol: In mid-2010, I was sucked into wondering what some people could see that I couldn't. Then this:

​​​​​​​cmarti 
May 19 2010, 1:47 PM EDT

Some pieces of what I e-mailed to Kenneth a day later: The tipping point, if there really is any one thing I can point to that seems to have caused “this” whatever-it-is, is the notion that the seeking is hiding the sought. That, weirdly, is everything in a nutshell. This is a cosmic joke. When this happened, I laughed out loud. I’m still laughing out loud when I think of this. It’s just funny. I seem to have taken a walk, aiming for the nearest corner but ended up going all the way around the city just to travel a few feet. The seeking, the urge and the act, are done. There is nothing to go out and find because it’s all right here, right in front of me. It always has been. Recognizing this and the utter simplicity of it clicked in my head as if a switch had been thrown. A void exists where the seeking was. The conveyor belt that has driven me to seek, to believe there was something I could or would find, has been turned off.

So… now what?

There is a leveled experiential playing field. There is a deeply felt removal of an innate, heretofore unexamined hierarchy of experiential existence. All things, all processes, all experiences, are absolute equals. There are no experiences or processes that are in control, bigger, better, or somehow more important, than other processes and experiences. I see, more clearly than ever, that “I” am a collection of little things that only seem to add up to a bigger thing. These little things are always scurrying around and they each have their own problems, concerns, delights and interests. Taken as a whole they appear to the world as “Chris." Do not be fooled! I’ve been staying awake at night a lot, right after I go to bed. Not upset. Not worrying. Just in awe of “this.” Whatever has occurred has opened a universe to me. It’s huge. HUGE. It echoes with curiosity and wonder. And it brings energy.

<Posted on Kenneth Fok Dharma, now part of Awakenetwork.org>
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 3 Days ago at 7/9/24 3:56 AM
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RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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Unconfused uncertainty. 
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Bahiya Baby, modified 20 Hours ago at 7/11/24 3:46 PM
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RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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Ok, so

I was continuing to practice when I realized just looking directly at suffering would cause 99% of it to stop. It feels like opening the aperture on a camera lens and all of a sudden there's a lot more light in the picture. 

I went through a kind of funny process of just seeing all these things in my life that I was attached to and realizing I just didn't really have to give a fuck about them. As in, I didnt have to have any default invested attachment in any of them and that by withdrawing that attachment it sort of reempowers me to deal with them, or not, in a more sane, humorous, playful way 

Following on from this I came to the realization that "every moment was suffering" and I could start to see the ways the ego was trying to gratify itself moment to moment. There was a lot of seeing all three characteristics here in a way that showed me suffering flowing impermanently and without self from moment to moment and then that all sort of resolved itself and what is left is a strange clarity which I am still exploring. 
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Chris M, modified 4 Hours ago at 7/12/24 7:53 AM
Created 20 Hours ago at 7/11/24 3:53 PM

RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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Yes, every moment has an element of suffering inside it. That's because of attachment to something, but it's something that's not obvious to almost anybody. One way to investigate this is to wonder: who, or what, is doing the suffering? Who, or what, is gaining clarity? Is this just about deciding not to care, or something different, much deeper? Does deciding have anything to do with anything? What is doing the deciding?

Just stirring your pot a bit.
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Bahiya Baby, modified 20 Hours ago at 7/11/24 4:01 PM
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RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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I am struck by the notion that recognizing there is suffering is the path to the end of suffering. 
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Bahiya Baby, modified 20 Hours ago at 7/11/24 4:06 PM
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RE: Bahiya 2: The log strikes back

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Yes, thank you for stirring it up. Inquiry into whose doing what has already been super fruitful but it's also one of those things I find hard to directly look at until one day I'm looking up and it's looking straight back at me lol

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