Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Change A, modified 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 3:17 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 3:17 AM

Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Posts: 791 Join Date: 5/24/10 Recent Posts
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/message/10897

In the above message and also on AF website, Richard talks about collective psyche, psychic currents, psychic vibes. Richard says that they can have effect over long distances as well. Also that all sentient beings are connected by a psychic web, some more, some less. I don't understand anything about it as all of this seems like delusion and insanity. There isn't any rationality about it at all. Or maybe I'm connected to the psychic web in the least way possible?

What do you understand about it? Is there a rational way of explaining it?
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Nikolai , modified 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 4:12 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 3:20 AM

RE: Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Posts: 1648 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Aman A.:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/message/10897

In the above message and also on AF website, Richard talks about collective psyche, psychic currents, psychic vibes. Richard says that they can have effect over long distances as well. Also that all sentient beings are connected by a psychic web, some more, some less. I don't understand anything about it as all of this seems like delusion and insanity. There isn't any rationality about it at all. Or maybe I'm connected to the psychic web in the least way possible?

What do you understand about it? Is there a rational way of explaining it?


It seems much more of an unhealthy obsession now, infiniti zero. We all know about Richard and his opinions and ideas. There is no need to flood this forum again and again with this anti-AF stuff. We know you oppose it all. That is why you have your own yahoo list which anyone can go visit and read if they wish to do so. Vent to your heart's content there. Here? Give it a rest. Though do please continue to talk and share about the useful practical stuff you already have like in Katy's thread. I think thinking about and taking on board the notion of a 'psychic web' is just fuel for more papanca.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.018.than.html
Change A, modified 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 4:30 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 4:30 AM

RE: Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Posts: 791 Join Date: 5/24/10 Recent Posts
Nikolai .:
Aman A.:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/message/10897

In the above message and also on AF website, Richard talks about collective psyche, psychic currents, psychic vibes. Richard says that they can have effect over long distances as well. Also that all sentient beings are connected by a psychic web, some more, some less. I don't understand anything about it as all of this seems like delusion and insanity. There isn't any rationality about it at all. Or maybe I'm connected to the psychic web in the least way possible?

What do you understand about it? Is there a rational way of explaining it?


It seems much more of an unhealthy obsession now, infiniti zero. We all know about Richard and his opinions and ideas. There is no need to flood this forum again and again with this anti-AF stuff. We know you oppose it all. That is why you have your own yahoo list which anyone can go visit and read if they wish to do so. Vent to your heart's content there. Here? Give it a rest. Though do please continue to talk and share about the useful practical stuff you already have like in Katy's thread. I think thinking about and taking on board the notion of a 'psychic web' is just fuel for more papanca.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.018.than.html


I'm just asking for rational explanation of psyche, psychic currents and psychic vibes, that is all. I ask this because I'm interested in understanding Actualism just like I'm interested in understanding Buddhism. If anybody asks me about the concept of re-birth or any other mystical mumbo jumbo of Buddhism, I will say that it is all nonsense. In the same way, I'm asking those who are practicing Actualism and who have more experience in it than myself that what is it that they make of psyche, psychic currents, psychic vibes etc. I want to know their views and opinions and maybe they can explain it in a way that will make it more clear to me because right now, I don't understand anything about this stuff.

If you have anything to say about this, please let me know. I'm all ears.
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Nikolai , modified 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 4:42 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 4:42 AM

RE: Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Posts: 1648 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Aman A.:
Nikolai .:
Aman A.:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/actualfreedom/message/10897

In the above message and also on AF website, Richard talks about collective psyche, psychic currents, psychic vibes. Richard says that they can have effect over long distances as well. Also that all sentient beings are connected by a psychic web, some more, some less. I don't understand anything about it as all of this seems like delusion and insanity. There isn't any rationality about it at all. Or maybe I'm connected to the psychic web in the least way possible?

What do you understand about it? Is there a rational way of explaining it?


It seems much more of an unhealthy obsession now, infiniti zero. We all know about Richard and his opinions and ideas. There is no need to flood this forum again and again with this anti-AF stuff. We know you oppose it all. That is why you have your own yahoo list which anyone can go visit and read if they wish to do so. Vent to your heart's content there. Here? Give it a rest. Though do please continue to talk and share about the useful practical stuff you already have like in Katy's thread. I think thinking about and taking on board the notion of a 'psychic web' is just fuel for more papanca.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.018.than.html


I'm just asking for rational explanation of psyche, psychic currents and psychic vibes, that is all. I ask this because I'm interested in understanding Actualism just like I'm interested in understanding Buddhism. If anybody asks me about the concept of re-birth or any other mystical mumbo jumbo of Buddhism, I will say that it is all nonsense. In the same way, I'm asking those who are practicing Actualism and who have more experience in it than myself that what is it that they make of psyche, psychic currents, psychic vibes etc. I want to know their views and opinions and maybe they can explain it in a way that will make it more clear to me because right now, I don't understand anything about this stuff.

If you have anything to say about this, please let me know. I'm all ears.


And by your post count concerning anti-richard/aft/af practices here and mostly on the two AF yahoo list serves, it is pretty obvious that you have made up your mind concerning for or against. I don't think anyone here trying to convince or explain to you otherwise and help you understand what Richard means is going to do you any good. It is just going to be more fuel for more papanca, more fuel for the raging fire within you that triggers constant anti-af locked in thought loops that triggers incessant commenting and posting about Richard's latest daily dump.

It is obvious, you are looking for more fuel to satisfy that urge to 'be right' about your convictions and beliefs, and you are wishing to influence others to give up their AF related practices and expose them for the blind 'fools' you have insinuated them being (on your yahoo list serve). This is obvious from all the many, many anti af posts you keep posting on your yahoo list serve. Now, I am not a RIchard fan nor am I a supporter of the AFT and many of its ideas nor do they consider me part of their 'crew'. But I see value in practicing certain actualist practices as do others and allowing what I have learned from such practices to inform the path I now walk. You have an agenda, Aman. And it is clear as day.
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Bagpuss The Gnome, modified 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 4:51 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 4:51 AM

RE: Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Posts: 704 Join Date: 11/2/11 Recent Posts
You have an agenda, Aman. And it is clear as day.


That aside. I would like to see a discussion of this point. I think its a valid one to raise whether Aman is anti AF, or pro AF --why don't you just let him start the discussion rather than pouncing on him?
Change A, modified 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 5:26 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 5:26 AM

RE: Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Posts: 791 Join Date: 5/24/10 Recent Posts
Bagpuss The Gnome:
You have an agenda, Aman. And it is clear as day.


That aside. I would like to see a discussion of this point. I think its a valid one to raise whether Aman is anti AF, or pro AF --why don't you just let him start the discussion rather than pouncing on him?


Thank you Bagpuss The Gnome. I also don't understand why Nick have to pounce on me anytime I make a post about AF even if I post on the Dharma Battleground.

Now starting with the discussion about the point rather than talking about what agenda someone has or not, I could have very well understood about psyche, psychic currents and vibes if Richard were to talk about them happening at short distances where one can either see or hear others. But what I don't understand is that how can this occur at long distances as well. From what I understand from his latest messages on moderated yahoo forum, he is saying that his second wife had created psychic block that was preventing Vineeto from getting near to him and that got lifted after her death. Also, he attributes the lifting of that psychic block of his second wife to the freedom that many people gained after that, not only who were close to him physically but also another person who was in a far away place. Now this I don't understand at all. Although I will say that when everyone was getting free left, right and center in 2010, I was also getting affected by it and did feel some sort of positive reaction to it all. But rationally, I just thought that it is just the excitement that is making me feel like this.
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Jon T, modified 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 5:55 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 5:28 AM

RE: Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Posts: 401 Join Date: 12/30/10 Recent Posts
I agree with bagpuss and think a rational discussion of developments within the AFT are valid points for practice. The AFT seems to moving away from a common sense 'you can do it!' message to something more culty. That's just my take. I don't know how else to describe,

Prior to the physical death of my second wife (de jure) Devika/ Irene a PCE was indeed necessary for pure intent; since then it has no longer been a vital factor in the process of becoming actually free of the instinctual passions/the feeling-being formed thereof as the impenetrable psychic force-field which Devika had established to protect Richard from other people, and which Irene had transmuted into protecting other people from Richard, is no longer in existence (in existence psychically, that is, in the real-world).

Consequentially, that ‘over-arching benevolence and benignity’, which the feeling-being inhabiting this flesh-and-blood body all those years ago experienced and named ‘pure intent’, became directly immanently accessible to some select associates during a specific situational setting called ‘The Second Convivium Gathering’, in late 2009/early 2010, and was variously experienced by them as a ‘palpable sweetness’, for instance, and an ‘infinite tenderness’, for example, and has been more generally described as ‘being bathed in intimacy’.

It was also accessible at-a-distance (hence the thirty-day trial at that time), as a rather remarkable man on another continent has amply demonstrated, and has been described by him upon meeting in person as a ‘gentle energy’ and a ‘harmless energy’ which is ‘emanating all around (not directional, like a guru to a devotee, and not at all gross)’.

Thus to answer your first question: the direct (as in, immediate or unmediated) experiencing of the vast stillness of this physical universe’s infinitude – where the word stillness refers to there being no movement of time whatsoever (as in ‘this moment has no duration’) – is the way in which the feeling-being inhabiting this flesh-and-blood body all those years ago became consciously aware of pure intent because, back in those days, there had not yet been someone of sufficient naïveté to enable that immaculate perfection to become purity personified.

Which means that, these days, when that ‘palpable sweetness’ (for instance) is experienced it is that ‘over-arching benevolence and benignity’ being experienced, by virtue of that immaculate perfection having become manifest in the everyday world as a flesh-and-blood body only, as they are both one and the same thing in essence



I'm only looking for first hand accounts of Richards claims or benefit-of-the-doubt interpretations. would rather not find myself grouped in with the rest of the flame warriors.
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Nikolai , modified 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 12:49 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 12:38 PM

RE: Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Posts: 1648 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Ok then, we'll see how the posting tendencies play out.
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Tommy M, modified 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 4:49 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 4:49 PM

RE: Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
I also don't understand why Nick have to pounce on me anytime I make a post about AF even if I post on the Dharma Battleground.

I wouldn't say you're being "pounced" on, it seems more likely that your posts on here and on the yahoo forum you set up to discuss AF and Richard have given the impression that you're only interested in pushing your own agenda, i.e. AF is a fraud and/or Richard is batshit mental. With a few exceptions, most of your posts in recent months have been related to this and your ongoing criticism of AF so it doesn't seem unfair that a moderator should make a point of commenting lest anyone get the impression that you're interested in the subject for any other reason.

I'll provide a direct link to the unmoderated AF discussion forum on yahoo, of which Aman is the owner and posts under the name Infiniti Zero, so that people can see that there's a bit more background to your posts than may first appear. I'm not shit stirring here, it's a matter of making information available so that people can make their own decisions and take responsibility for their own actions. If anyone is interested they can find the site here.

Bagpuss and Jon both make valid points and I fully agree that, as Jon says, "a rational discussion of developments within the AFT are valid points for practice", because they are. Jon's point about "...AFT seems to moving away from a common sense 'you can do it!' message to something more culty" is also well made since it does seem to be the case and I agree that people should be privy to as much factual information as possible on the subject. However, this is a site with a strong emphasis on the practical and technical side of meditation practice hence the general lack of interest in non-practice related subjects.

If it were the case that the DhO wished to prevent any anti-AF sentiments or had some sort of pro-Richard stance then Aman would have been banned before now, as would every other critic of AF. This is clearly not the case and he's been free to continue posting whatever he chooses, in the relevant category as he's done here, and discuss the issues he's concerned about. For this reason, I find it laughable that people think they're being silenced or ignored as soon as they express anti-AF feelings. The lack of interest in anti-AF posts and Richard related speculation is, for me anyway, down to the fact that they have no practical value and do not help me with my practice.

Peace.
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 10:03 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 10:03 PM

RE: Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
If I see a stranger yawn, it makes me yawn! And have you ever sat in a meditation group or retreat with people that can't seem to stop salivating and swallowing loadly? One time I tuned into the symphony of salivating and swallowing. It Reminded me of a bunch of frogs on there Lilly pads, except we were all on meditation cussions lol!
There have been scientific studies on mass consciousness. Like lower crime rate when large groups of people are meditating.
So are You questioning belief or are you questioning psychic phenomena? If your questioning about Richard I'd say I can care less. But psychic phenomena inquiries I can get into.
Change A, modified 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 10:24 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 10:24 PM

RE: Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Posts: 791 Join Date: 5/24/10 Recent Posts
Ross A. K.:
If I see a stranger yawn, it makes me yawn! And have you ever sat in a meditation group or retreat with people that can't seem to stop salivating and swallowing loadly? One time I tuned into the symphony of salivating and swallowing. It Reminded me of a bunch of frogs on there Lilly pads, except we were all on meditation cussions lol!
There have been scientific studies on mass consciousness. Like lower crime rate when large groups of people are meditating.
So are You questioning belief or are you questioning psychic phenomena? If your questioning about Richard I'd say I can care less. But psychic phenomena inquiries I can get into.


This is what I said in one of my earlier post in this thread: "But what I don't understand is that how can this occur at long distances as well. From what I understand from his latest messages on moderated yahoo forum, he is saying that his second wife had created psychic block that was preventing Vineeto from getting near to him and that got lifted after her death. Also, he attributes the lifting of that psychic block of his second wife to the freedom that many people gained after that, not only who were close to him physically but also another person who was in a far away place. Now this I don't understand at all."

What you have said is psychic phenomena at a short distance where one can see or hear others. What I want to know is how it can act at longer distances as well. This is questioning about psychic phenomena as explained by Richard and what others make of it or how they explain it themselves.

"It Reminded me of a bunch of frogs on there Lilly pads, except we were all on meditation cussions"

Comparison of meditators with frogs on lilly pads is funny as I have had the same experience as well. In fact, I would be the one to start the salivating and swallowing.

Can you provide a link to the scientific studies that you mention? Was there a lower crime rate all over the world or was it localized to the place where people would know that a group is meditating for peace?
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 10:49 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 2/6/12 10:48 PM

RE: Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Posts: 2227 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
This article might be relevant, particularly:
Amy Lansky:
Then, in 1997, they decided to place REGs [random event generators] at fifty locations all over the world, run them continuously, and see if they could pick up on major world events. The results were astounding. Over the next ten years, Radin and Nelson studied the machines' reactions to 205 major world events and discovered that they did indeed respond to events that were intense on a global level -- especially those that were tragic. The most striking effects occurred in response to the events on 9/11, which caused the largest daily average correlation between the machines' outputs. Even more amazing, this correlation became noticeable a few hours before the first of the twin towers was hit! [8, 9] An instance of collective precognition?


Not sure the studies were scientifically sound, though, e.g.:
Wikipedia:
Independent scientists Edwin May and James Spottiswoode conducted an analysis of the data around the 11 September 2001 events and concluded there was no statistically significant change in the randomness of the GCP data during the attacks and the apparent significant deviation reported by Nelson and Radin existed only in their chosen time window.[20] Spikes and fluctuations are to be expected in any random distribution of data, and there is no set time frame for how close a spike has to be to a given event for the GCP to say they have found a correlation.[20] Wolcotte Smith said "A couple of additional statistical adjustments would have to be made to determine if there really was a spike in the numbers," referencing the data related to September 11, 2001.[21] Similarly, Jeffrey D. Scargle believes unless bothBayesian and classical p-value analysis agree and both show the same anomalous effects, the kind of result GCP proposes will not be generally accepted.[22]
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Daniel M Ingram, modified 10 Years ago at 2/7/12 1:29 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 2/7/12 1:27 AM

RE: Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Posts: 3231 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
A few points:

I think the DhB should be kept as a place where people go and expect that there will be controversy: it is the Battleground, after all.

Thus, in the Battleground, Aman definitely can raise whatever even slightly-relevant point he wants to, and people, including moderators, can jump all over him, and he can jump back, etc.

In fact, I would presume that people are coming here as they expect a fight, no? Thus, if a fight occurs, how is this problematic or strange?

I am all for letting this happen and giving within very wide parameters of acceptability, just so long as a few very basic, pre-established rules are not broken: no need to list those here.

As to statistics:

I have taken basically all the courses a PhD epidemiologist would (I have a 2 year Masters of Science in Epidemiology, which was a very methods and stats heavy program), and I can tell you that it takes a lot of careful looking sometimes to really determine what people have done with statistics and it is really easy to get things wrong, see what you want to see, skew things intentionally and even subconsciously towards your biases, create effects so you can publish, etc.

I am not saying that happened here, just saying that you want people to try to replicate the thing, and as Reverend Bayes pointed out, eventually good data will overwhelm bad prior hypotheses, but in this case we would require more data and studies and time to see what shakes out.

As to psychic vibes, just my current impression is that there is a lot of interconnection in the world, the interaction of consciousness and the world is really complex and not anything like fully understood or even close, and to rule out effects like that at this point would be premature, and the question is not at all unreasonable to ask and ponder and experiment with, both in terms of adopting the paradigm that psychic vibes do or don't exist or exist however and see how that changes things or helps or doesn't, and also to play around with however one conceives of "psychic vibes" and see what one finds to be possible in one's own experience.
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katy steger,thru11615 with thanks, modified 10 Years ago at 2/7/12 8:36 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 2/7/12 8:36 AM

RE: Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Posts: 1740 Join Date: 10/1/11 Recent Posts
BCDEF:
Not sure the studies were scientifically sound,


Ingram:
I have taken basically all the courses a PhD epidemiologist would (I have a 2 year Masters of Science in Epidemiology, which was a very methods and stats heavy program), and I can tell you that it takes a lot of careful looking sometimes to really determine what people have done with statistics and it is really easy to get things wrong, see what you want to see, skew things intentionally and even subconsciously towards your biases, create effects so you can publish, etc.
(...)
As to psychic vibes, just my current impression is that there is a lot of interconnection in the world, the interaction of consciousness and the world is really complex and not anything like fully understood or even close, and to rule out effects like that at this point would be premature, and the question is not at all unreasonable to ask and ponder and experiment with, both in terms of adopting the paradigm that psychic vibes do or don't exist or exist however and see how that changes things or helps or doesn't, and also to play around with however one conceives of "psychic vibes" and see what one finds to be possible in one's own experience.


Related to both of the above comments, I watched the movie "What the BLEEP do we know" and enjoyed watching my own responses to it and to the reviews of it.
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 2/7/12 12:55 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 2/7/12 12:46 PM

RE: Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
I have had experiences of psychic phenomena on a few occasions. One where I knew my friend was angry. This was a knowing that happened in real time. As when I seen this person again they told me the story of how so and so did some thing and anger arose. This person was about 2 miles from where I was. The knowing was immediate no words just knowing. Also I had a vivid dream of 9/11 2 weeks prior. It was he only time in my life I felt compelled to write down the details of the dream to try to figure it out. I was lookin out a large window in a building (while dreaming) and a plane was coming straight at me. So personally I have no doubt not only in psychic abilities at close range with one or many people, but also long distances with one or many people. I've spent many hours spreading Metta to all beings and believing it to have an effect. I do find it suprising that Richard would talk of such things.
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Andrew , modified 10 Years ago at 2/9/12 7:30 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 2/9/12 7:30 PM

RE: Collective psyche, psychic currents/vibes (Actual Freedom)

Posts: 336 Join Date: 5/23/11 Recent Posts
A book I have in rotation for a while know is by a man called Lawrence Leshan. He talks about psychic research and the scientific concept of 'realms' or descrete areas of study. His point is that consciousness cannot and should not be squeezed into the nomenclature of quantum physics. or newtonian physics, or electromagnetic field theory or any such thing.

We would never speak of the weight of electricity for example, as we know that it has no weight. We would not talk about the colour or sound of an electron, as this is nonsense. In the same way we should not talk about the mind in terms that do not arise out of the study of the mind itself.

Examples would be people trying to work out how clairvoyance works at a distance. The simple fact is distance is not a property of mind, mind does not have dimension (we don't measure thoughts in millimetres for example) so why do we try and start imposing length measurements on it otherwise?

i would be surprised for example, as a builder, that a piece of timber i measured at 1200mm suddenly spanned a gap of 3000mm. That would be impossible. Impossible things don't happen. So when we study mind and observe meaningful interactions at distance, we then, as good scientist should, conclude that this is a property of mind and not be surprised. In the same way I am not surprised when I switch on my phone and receive a phone call that it didn't get heavier; the properties dealt with in electromagnetic field theory have no problem with this otherwise strange thing.

(From a conversation I'm having on vipassanaforum, but it is relevant here)

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