Please shoot me down

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Jacqueline Wicks, modified 9 Years ago.

Please shoot me down

Posts: 46 Join Date: 2/18/12 Recent Posts
I suspect that I might be into the dukka nanas or otherwise back in the three characteristics. i feel it might be the former. so shoot me down. please read my practice thread to make your judgement:

http://kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/4858724/Jacki%27s+journal

thanks in advance. jacki.
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Nikolai ., modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Please shoot me down

Posts: 1650 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Jacqueline Wicks:
I suspect that I might be into the dukka nanas or otherwise back in the three characteristics. i feel it might be the former. so shoot me down. please read my practice thread to make your judgement:

http://kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/4858724/Jacki%27s+journal

thanks in advance. jacki.


Hi Jacqeline,

Could you post what you wish us to read here as it will be easier to reply to specific things you have written.

Nick
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Jacqueline Wicks, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Please shoot me down

Posts: 46 Join Date: 2/18/12 Recent Posts
hi nikolai! nice to hear from you.

you know, i don't feel like i need to explore this question of "where am i". i mean, of course i want to know, but it doesn't seem to matter so much now.

i started to feel different yesterday afternoon, and today.

things have slowed right down. i actually slept well last night. my sleep has been quite strange for while. needing less of it. earlier on, a week or two back, it was like i was only half asleep some of the time.

so anyway, it's ok. i feel more normal again. i feel good. really i can't complain.

jacki. ;-)
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Jacqueline Wicks, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Please shoot me down

Posts: 46 Join Date: 2/18/12 Recent Posts
Golly i just noticed that this thing (DhO) is using my real name. i guess i'll have to do something about that.

Edit: changed it so my real name doesn't appear. so yeah, the name that appears now, "wacky jacky", is not my real name.
emoticon
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Tommy M, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Please shoot me down

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
Hey Jacki,

After reading your posts on KFD and what you've said so far here, I'd say you're still pre-A&P in terms of the insight maps. Your descriptions sounds like going up and down between 1st and 4th ñanas, but your practice itself seems quite scattered and unfocused.

What is it that you'd like to do?

One thing I'd suggest is dropping any ideas about what you think certain terms mean, I see in your posts on Kenneth's site that you're trying to line your experience up with these maps without having any knowledge of them. This will just lead to you become confused and frustrated. It's not a big deal, it's much more useful to practice well and investigate your own experience of things because the terminology and other more tradition-specific elements will make more sense in the long run.

Welcome to the DhO!
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wacky jacky, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Please shoot me down

Posts: 46 Join Date: 2/18/12 Recent Posts
hi tommy. i've seen some of your posts here and hoped you might chime in.

Tommy M:
After reading your posts on KFD and what you've said so far here, I'd say you're still pre-A&P in terms of the insight maps. Your descriptions sounds like going up and down between 1st and 4th ñanas

emoticon

Tommy M:
your practice itself seems quite scattered and unfocused.


Yes, unfocused. It feels productive though.

Tommy M:
What is it that you'd like to do?


get enlightened.

Tommy M:
One thing I'd suggest is dropping any ideas about what you think certain terms mean, I see in your posts on Kenneth's site that you're trying to line your experience up with these maps without having any knowledge of them. This will just lead to you become confused and frustrated. It's not a big deal, it's much more useful to practice well and investigate your own experience of things because the terminology and other more tradition-specific elements will make more sense in the long run.


OK, thanks.

And thanks for welcoming me to the DhO. Jacki.

P.S. And if you might, from time to time, check out my KFD notes, i'd be grateful. emoticon
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Tommy M, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Please shoot me down

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
No probs, I'm happy to be able to offer any help I can.

There's a few reasons why I'm saying that, as far as I can see, you're still pre-A&P but don't take it as being a bad thing or any sort of failure. There are similarities between ñanas and also a more complex fractal thing that goes on which can lead to confusing whereabouts you are, and there are ways to practice depending on where you're at so that's why it's useful to have at least a rough idea. I could also be completely wrong so see how your practice develops, you may well have crossed the A&P and currently be in Dark Night, but I'll point out the reasons why I don't think this is the case:

- Awkward and uncomfortable movements of the neck and spine (as you mention in the 2nd post on KFD) are pure 3rd ñana.
- Regular mentions of insights regarding mind and body, cause and effect and the three characteristics suggest to me that this is all new to you. It's not uncommon for the realization, experientially, that mind and body are not the same thing to blow people away, especially if they're not familiar with this sort of thing.
- Your descriptions of recent sits sounds more like moving into early A&P territory after 3rd ñana, the lack of effort and natural ease to things sounds similar to this based on my own experience.

get enlightened.

Excellent idea.

What I suggest doing is finding a technique and sticking to it, your practice is all over the place and you're not getting the chance to go in deeply enough which will be why you're going 'round in circles. Pick one thing, whether it's anapanasati, kasina, noting or whatever, and practice it as consistently as you can. Don't jump from one to the other without knowing how to do each one properly, you'll waste your time and effort when you could be making progress.

Whether your practice feels productive or not shouldn't be used to gauge progress, there will be times when it seems like meditation does nothing but cause you to experience pain and anguish but that doesn't mean you're not moving forward. There will be times when everything is effortless, there are times when everything will suck and you'll struggle so don't rely on how you feel 'cause those feelings are just as empty, transient and stressful as every other sensation. It ebbs and flows, just stay present and practice well.
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wacky jacky, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Please shoot me down

Posts: 46 Join Date: 2/18/12 Recent Posts
O.K., got it.

choosing which practice, that's the thing, deciding that, with less than perfect info. a lot less than perfect info really...

but i'm getting there (in the sense of homing in on how to practice).
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Tommy M, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Please shoot me down

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
The most effective and efficient practice to take you to stream entry and beyond is noting, it allows you to systematically disembed from all phenomena and see how they're subject to the three characteristics of impermanence, suffering and no-self. It's deceptively simple and a lot of people, me included, end up trying to overcomplicate things or add something to the practice that's simply not required.

In terms of "less than perfect info", whereabouts have you been looking for your information and what is it that you find "less than perfect" about the information available on here? If you don't understand something, just ask and you'll almost certainly find out more or at least be pointed in the right direction.

I recommend reading Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha as it was a game changer for many of us who post here. Also, The Hamilton Project is crammed with techniques for all aspects of practice from the insight paths and beyond. Kenneth's site, as you probably know, also has loads of really good stuff and I found his 3-Gears approach to be very helpful and efficient in my own practice.

There are lots of options available to you depending on how you want to progress.
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wacky jacky, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Please shoot me down

Posts: 46 Join Date: 2/18/12 Recent Posts
Thank you Tommy, i really appreciate this.

So suppose I do noting. What practice do i do while noting?

for example, would i note while watching the breath. or is it better to note while in a state of more general awareness?

Is it important to actually think of word for a sensation or is it just a case of observing in your own mind that something is happening? I know there is so much written on noting but still i'm not clear about it.

also, my noting, if i use words (which i don't say out loud, just in my head) is slow. is that a problem?

Thanks Tommy, it's so nice that you're so willing to help. Jacki.
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Tommy M, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Please shoot me down

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
Thank you Tommy, i really appreciate this.

You're welcome, I'm happy to help 'cause I know what it's like to be stuck!

So suppose I do noting. What practice do i do while noting?
for example, would i note while watching the breath. or is it better to note while in a state of more general awareness?

The best way to start is to just follow the rise and fall of the abdomen while you sit, all you're doing is watching the sensations of the breath as it happens and staying with it; you just note "rising" and "falling", it's that simple and there's nothing more complicated required at this point. If you find it difficult to stay with the breath consistently, try breath counting in cycles from 1-10 'cause that's the business when it comes to getting your concentration together.

The noting can be done audibly or silently, whichever you find most comfortable although silently does help your ability to concentrate better. In terms of how to note, just stick to simple labels, don't get hung up on finding specific names. I'll give you a few examples and stick a few links to some useful stuff later in the post. Some people find verbally noting out loud makes it easier at first, it's not something I made a lot of use of to be honest but I know some skilled yogis who started out with that technique.

Once you're happy that you can do this, start noting anything else you notice; if you hear a sound, note "hearing", if you notice your foot or your bum touching the floor, note "contact", if you hear your kids fighting in the background, note "irritation" or whatever, just keep it simple and keep coming back to the breath if you wander off.

The speed at which you note will change as you go through the ñanas but your perceptual threshold will increase with practice, go for consistency and precision over speed at first, see as much of the entire arising and passing of each object regardless of what it is. At times it'll be harder to see the whole thing, at other times it'll be easy so work with what feels natural and go with the flow. Start with one sensation every two seconds and go from there, whatever works for you.

Observing the three characteristics is really important too, but it's as easy as seeing that all objects in awareness will arise and pass away (impermanence), that there is no "you" to be found in any of them (no-self), and that because of their transient, empty nature nothing in manifest existence will ever provide fundamental satisfaction and will instead lead to more stress due to the inherent craving/aversion we mentally create. These things need to be experienced and understood to make a real difference, no amount of words can express what is learned when they're comprehended directly.

Any more useful?

The Benefits of Noting
Detailed Noting

These are two good Hamilton Project links on noting, I'll add some more as I remember them.
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wacky jacky, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Please shoot me down

Posts: 46 Join Date: 2/18/12 Recent Posts
OK, bowing to pressure and doing noting.

did as you suggest, just watching breath rising and falling. for 1 hour.

then did 20 minutes of noting allowing any old sensations that arise (including aversion, thoughts, etc). once i slipped into this mode of mediation my kriya came back. head pain, ended up on the floor again. so weird. it seems to come on when i go into a sort of mind relaxed mode.
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Tommy M, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Please shoot me down

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
OK, bowing to pressure and doing noting.

Don't be pressured into anything, I suggested noting because it was effective for me and countless others but if you'd rather practice in another way then do so.

did as you suggest, just watching breath rising and falling. for 1 hour.

Were you noting the rising, falling and other sensations involved?

then did 20 minutes of noting allowing any old sensations that arise (including aversion, thoughts, etc). once i slipped into this mode of mediation my kriya came back. head pain, ended up on the floor again. so weird. it seems to come on when i go into a sort of mind relaxed mode.

The pain and pressure related stuff is down to being in 3rd ñana.

If you're practicing for an hour, for example, why not do 20 minutes of concentration followed by 40 minutes of noting. It's time well spent and if your concentration is pretty decent anyway then you shouldn't have any problems. Refine your noting a bit more, you'll move on soon enough if you up your game.
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wacky jacky, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Please shoot me down

Posts: 46 Join Date: 2/18/12 Recent Posts
hi tommy.

when i said "bowing to pressure" i wasn't been very informative. what i really meant was that i was bowing to the pressure of the vast amount of testimony to the usefulness of noting.

my noting is still pretty pathetic. i can manage to note "rising" and "falling" on the breath. and some other stuff too. but definitely needs work.

i had a weird thing just happen so if you could check out my latest post on KFD i'd be grateful. just go to the last two entries.

http://kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/4858724/Jacki%27s+journal?offset=0&maxResults=50

thanks...
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Tommy M, modified 9 Years ago.

RE: Please shoot me down

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
when i said "bowing to pressure" i wasn't been very informative. what i really meant was that i was bowing to the pressure of the vast amount of testimony to the usefulness of noting.

That was my misunderstanding, sorry about that.

my noting is still pretty pathetic. i can manage to note "rising" and "falling" on the breath. and some other stuff too. but definitely needs work.

Take your time, take it easy and don't beat yourself up 'cause it'll all come good with more practice, seriously.

How do you eat an elephant? A bit at a time.

I'll respond to your posts on KFD instead of going back and forth, that way you can just stick to one thread for your reports and save yourself some time.

You'll be fine. Practice well.

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