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Fear/Desire Model

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Fear/Desire Model
Answer
2/19/12 5:23 AM
Rather than trying to transcend fear and desire -the hallmarks of being human- work with them. Make them the path.


The Fear/Desire Model


--Fear, aka Maya, the software of the ego. Stopping all fear means the ego ceases to exist.

--Start where you are. Where you are is where your desire is. You are your desire - that's what you are, as a self, is desire. If you don't allow and seek after your desires, then you're denying what you are as a self. That means you are judging yourself. How can that feel good? And if you don't feel good, what chance of growth or personal evolution? [see dark night warning sticky on home page].

--If you desire some sort of achievement, then you must give up any fear of not getting/having it. That's the whole practice described right there.

--Fear = Negative expectation. Expectation of pain - either physical or emotional, or both. Just stop it through awareness. Don't struggle against it, just stop it. Certainly do not watch fear passively, don't meditate on it, don't note it, just stop it and don't get involved.

--Since expectation determines outcome, stopping the negative rumination allows the positive energy to create a fulfillment of the desire.

--There's no need to create positivity. Desire is that positive energy and it exists whether you like it or not. The only requirement is stopping negativity.

--Fear is something you have to actively hold onto for it to influence you. The deeply hidden reason for not letting it go is because we believe our thoughts are real. Neither the positive nor the negative are real. We can simply choose the positive because it results in happiness and growth.

--Each step is determined by what you want. If you can't get it despite letting go of the fear attached to it, then it wasn't a growth-oriented desire.

--Growth oriented desires are those that make you happy on achieving them. False desires don't make you happy, even if you achieve them. False desires just look like they will make you happy.

--After a while of this, you will see that almost all desires have one underlying desire, which is the desire for intimate connection with other people. Intimate connection is very open and free from judgment. It gives you much more happiness than achievement ever did . But in order to achieve this type of intimacy, one has to let go of the fear of not being acceptable. Up til now, you've been growing yourself bigger and faster and more skillful and more intelligent in order to feel like you're good enough for someone else to give you that degree of intimacy, but it had the reverse effect!! It's hard-wired into the self to never accept the self as it is, and this is what prevents intimacy. In this way, self-acceptance is an early stage break down of the ego. Personal boundaries have to dissolve, and there's big risk there. The reward is love, compassion, other-orientation and compassion. The heart centre energizes.

--The final desire is the desire to grow that personal intimacy, because it feels so good. To expand it outwards until it includes all people, all things and eventually the whole universe. Fear of non-existence must be let go. Desire ends, having served its purpose. Enlightenment.

--If at any stage something is 'wrong' in your experience... anything at all, then that's fear (negative expectation). Just feel what it is you want. If you can't work out what it is you want, then it's probably self-acceptance.

--Depression results from denial of self (ie.desire), the first step. Dark Night results from the inability to let go of self, the penultimate step (St. John of the Cross).

RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
2/21/12 9:27 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
The way I practice this is quite simple. No fear, anxiety, apprehension, tension... whatever you want to call it.

No fear of any situation, circumstance, environment, person, event. There's no way an ego can not feel at least some fear all the time, because that is how it operates. Anyone who is not enlightened lives in fear constantly, it's just that achievement and success tends to put a mask on it and make it seem like it's a non-issue. Since the ego lives in fear, to say 'no' to fear will require me to access part of me that is not able to fear, ie. my true self or spirit. So it becomes a spiritual practice.

I have to be careful not to deny fear, nor suppress it. I say 'no' in a certain way, gently, but like an impenetrable roadblock, with no emotion attached...and just keep saying no, no. It forces a diversion of my attention away from the ego-mind.

I've found that this has been very valuable practice at work, where I try to let go of any and all traces of tension. Work load has approximately doubled since starting this a week ago, and since I work for myself (subcontract), this is good financially. It also feels right.

Hope this is helpful to someone else apart from myself.

RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
2/22/12 6:06 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
Hi C C C-
reading your thread and your words"The final desire is the desire to grow that personal intimacy, because it feels so good. To expand it outwards until it includes all people, all things and eventually the whole universe. Fear of non-existence must be let go." I thought of this zen hospice video. Your thoughts?

RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
2/23/12 8:09 PM as a reply to katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks.
katy,

I think the first time you feel unconditional love it might move you to tears, if not it will certainly be deeply healing, but of course there are levels well beyond that. I'm not one to call it "heart crap", unless it's demonstrably self-centered and mawkish. Some of the interviewed people were doing "heart crap" but not all. Some seem to have experienced an opening of the heart. Some had just words that they thought sounded good on camera, and that's it.

They kept repeating, "there are only two things". I'd argue there are three things, and the third thing is accessed by transcending the two things (fear/desire), and that One thing is the only true thing. I dunno... trying to be poetic here!

I have strong aversion to people shaving their heads and wearing robes, especially westerners. Lost in appearance and customs.

RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
2/22/12 11:31 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
Howdy C C C,

They kept repeating, "there are only two things". I'd argue there are three things, and the third thing is accessed by transcending the two things (fear/desire), and that One thing is the only true thing. I dunno... trying to be poetic here!
What is the only one true thing? I am not aiming for some kind of ontological Socratic entrapment here, but I am curious what you've determined.

You're trying to be poetic has good timing! This has been playing in the house much of the day. This tune ripens my mind for a poetic view emoticon

RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
2/27/12 7:38 PM as a reply to katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks.
The one true thing is awareness, consciousness itself.

I think of awareness as a stream of energy, and if that stream is allowed to flow into my ego's concerns, it gets trapped there and the energy dissipates and degrades. If I set up a roadblock such as "no fear...no striving... nothing to change", then awareness has to either stay in itself (freeing energy), or flow to the positive. While the positive is also a waste of energy, it's a much more productive and creative waste.

I feel like my ego always wants things to be different from how they are now. Striving for a good meditation is one of its worst habits, or striving for something interesting or life-changing during a meditation. Sometimes I can rest in awareness and watch this in comfort but I think blocking it is better. Blocking it in a non-judgmental way. The ego-mind should be accepted as it is - a busy, change-desiring machine. I think by accepting it - even admiring it - it quietens down on its own. Then when I get into the flow, trying to notice that 'striving for change' creates tension and discomfort when it pops up again. If I can manage this easy state, then the change that does happen is qualitatively different to the type of change my ego manufactures.


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RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
2/28/12 2:52 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
The one true thing is awareness, consciousness itself.

From what cognizance is this point being made? From a process of investigative mentating or from an experience of cessation (of all aggregates) and their restarting in a skandhic progression (rupa, vedana, saññā, saṅkhāra, viññāṇa)?

Because I would agree that there is something especially useful and akin-to-optimism/brightness/bright-alertness in viññāṇa, however, I personally could not really get this understanding without seeing all aggregates go away, then come back up sequentially; I was too much interested in knowing the logic and organization of a practice over actual practice (sitting with one's mind can be extremely hard going without tools and a map...and I had such ingrained avoidance habits for the last several years leading to not-so-much-actual-practice until the past 1.5 years). In hindsite, had I been a completely faithful person (in the theism of my upbringing or buddhism) and not erred away from the four immeasurables , then my actions without a view of cessation would have been the same as with a view of cessation and re-ignition of aggregates.

Striving for a good meditation is one of its worst habits, or striving for something interesting or life-changing during a meditation.
I agree, so long as one is practicing and striving (making dedicated, focused, sincere efforts), be it in meditation (e.g., just to stay awake or non-harmful) or actualism or mindfulness is often par for the course. If the aspect of mind that can ruminate and query and fret and desire, etc, is placed repeatedly in a task like object attention or metta, then that mind will give up on its wanderings and, without any effort to gain or add, it will naturally show and develop single-pointedness and other aspects of the mental faculty, including shutting down. It is a positively reinforcing spokes-event for friendly mindfulness/actualism/noting/kasina/gazing at bodies of water/etc.

Then when I get into the flow, trying to notice that 'striving for change' creates tension and discomfort when it pops up again. If I can manage this easy state, then the change that does happen is qualitatively different to the type of change my ego manufactures.
I like "easy state". What kind of practice(s) are you doing? What makes easy state(ing) unmanageable (or is "If I can manage this easy state..." a modest figure of speech)?

RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
2/29/12 6:29 PM as a reply to katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks.
Not sure about the first question, sorry. I read the links.

My practice now is:

--practising *no fear* through self talk "no fear, no, no, no, not interested, stop, no, nope, stop, ..." No fear of any thing, situation, circumstance, person or event. Just saying 'no' over and over without judgment or force. Gentle and repetitive. Random neuronal firing does as it must, because that is its nature - it's good, but I am removed. Plunging myself as deep as I can into a state of *no fear*.

--practising through self talk "nothing here needs to change. Nothing about myself, anyone else, the state of the entire world. Let everything be as it is".

--When the easy state takes over, completely surrender to it. Being like a leaf in a torrential river.

Adya in Emptiness Dancing: "It's as if you are the sky ... The sky is inherently completely unaffected, even if the storm comes and lightning cracks and all hell breaks loose. It doesn't matter as long as the sky remembers that it's sky".

RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
3/4/12 5:42 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
Everything was going ok. I thought I'd found some ways around my usual reactions to vipassana meditation, and there were definite benefits... for a while. So I did a bit more, bit more, bit more. Then bang, it hit just the same reaction, this one quite severe. Aching joints, burning hands and feet, malaise, cramping middle back, sore neck, depressed... just felt very sick for 2 days.

Looks like I can't do any form of spiritual work without this reaction. I'll probably have to leaver it altogether.

RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
3/4/12 7:10 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:

Looks like I can't do any form of spiritual work without this reaction. I'll probably have to leaver it altogether.


Hi CCC,
Here's a relevant quote from Daniel's book:
Mastering The Core Teachings Of The Buddha:
Actually, when playing around with any meditative technology, there is no free lunch. You always end up being forced to face some further challenge having to do with personal or spiritual growth, either then or shortly thereafter. There doesn’t seem to be any getting around this.

RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
3/5/12 9:36 PM as a reply to Yadid dee.
along those same lines, I get headaches quite a bit more often than before my last shift. i hope this indicates a physiological change rather than some physic trauma. at any rate, the extra clarity and independence is worth it.

RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
3/5/12 10:33 PM as a reply to This Good Self.
Hi CCC,

For me the first and foremost skill is being able to relax. If you are good at it, then watching (vipassana) get results. If you are not relaxed then there isn't much good quality watching going on anyway - 'you' may be watching, but who is watching 'you'? The more tension the more 'you' is there watching instead of being watched.

I read recently that unless you are relaxed --alpha brain waves dominating- intuition, insight, 'ah ha' moments are alot less likely.

calm-abiding needs to be strong to handle with equanimity all that comes up. Weak calm-abiding=overwhelming arisings.

I've found through various periods of striving that if I push, 'it' will push back, If I relax then what can 'it' do?; Relax as well.

Relax in the face of it all = Unbind.


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RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
3/5/12 11:54 PM as a reply to Andrew ..
Thanks Andrew for your advice. I see I was placing too much effort into the "let everything be" practice and I was depleting my energy levels drastically in the process. I feel like my body was relaxed at the time, however there was a lot of mental work happening.

So I've scaled things back so that I now just do my "no fear" practice because I seem to be able to do that fairly easily and without provoking the usual reaction.

My main flaw is that if something begins to give me results (which it was), I think "great!" and I go too hard. Trying, straining.... all the things I was supposed to avoid. Fell into the trap once again.

RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
3/7/12 8:16 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C, you may try kum nye as it has helped me relax a lot and see if it can help you as well. Here is a link to the kum nye navel center meditation and it may give you an idea if it is for you or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jwWdIIhVuc

RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
3/8/12 2:25 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
I think "great!" and I go too hard. Trying, straining.... all the things I was supposed to avoid. Fell into the trap once again.


Don't I know that one...


The antidote isn't avoidance, though I'm sure you know that. Relax and watch (including all the striving) as much as you remember too, it really is that ordinary, but it works to strip away the expectation of fireworks and 'i'm getting somewhere'. the no fear stuff sounds cool, it too will pass though; all our efforts and theories do. What is left? What doesn't require 'you' to do anything and be anything? Do that. haha (don't mind me, I'm enjoying paradox today)

i found alot of encouragement in reading Jill talk about deliberately not entering altered states. It is the polar opposite of what we normally think of as 'life changing' but the day to day 'sati' is really king in all of this, and the best bit is we are already doing it whether we like it or not.

RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
3/10/12 9:54 AM as a reply to Andrew ..
The antidote isn't avoidance, though I'm sure you know that. Relax and watch (including all the striving) as much as you remember too, it really is that ordinary, but it works to strip away the expectation of fireworks and 'i'm getting somewhere'. the no fear stuff sounds cool, it too will pass though; all our efforts and theories do. What is left? What doesn't require 'you' to do anything and be anything? Do that. haha (don't mind me, I'm enjoying paradox today)

i found alot of encouragement in reading Jill talk about deliberately not entering altered states. It is the polar opposite of what we normally think of as 'life changing' but the day to day 'sati' is really king in all of this, and the best bit is we are already doing it whether we like it or not.
jawohl: day to day sati!

Thanks for the thread, C C C.

RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
3/18/12 10:40 PM as a reply to katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks.
Haven't finished yet!

First a correction of what I said earlier in the thread: --"The final desire is the desire to grow that personal intimacy, because it feels so good. To expand it outwards until it includes all people, all things and eventually the whole universe".

This is wrong. Others would have picked up on it. This is a description of unity consciousness or God-consciousness, and nothing to do with enlightenment. A merged self (an experience), as opposed to Self (beyond experience).

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Another thing I need to update is how I'm handling the side-effects of spiritual practice. Because of the severity of the symptoms, there was an unwillingness to allow them to even exist. Strong pain is usually met with unrelenting resistance. With moderate symptoms and very deep allowing of anything resembling sadness, this seems like the right approach. I understand that in order to be whole, every single aspect of self that was once unacceptable, must first be brought back into one's experience, then let go. And the letting go happens not by trying to let it go, but by applying a very deep experiencing and acceptance. The 'letting go' is the letting go of trying to control the pain.

RE: Fear/Desire Model
Answer
3/19/12 1:34 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
C C C:
And the letting go happens not by trying to let it go, but by applying a very deep experiencing and acceptance. The 'letting go' is the letting go of trying to control the pain.


Well said , CCC emoticon