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Great Laymen Masters Hemant Kathuria 3/22/12 5:30 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Daniel M. Ingram 3/23/12 5:32 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Hemant Kathuria 3/24/12 12:34 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters This Good Self 3/24/12 1:51 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Yadid dee 3/24/12 8:07 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Hemant Kathuria 3/24/12 9:04 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Yadid dee 3/24/12 12:48 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters wacky jacky 3/24/12 5:08 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Hemant Kathuria 3/25/12 1:49 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters A man Not there yet 3/25/12 3:22 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Hemant Kathuria 4/8/12 10:50 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters wacky jacky 3/25/12 6:54 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Daniel M. Ingram 3/25/12 5:56 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters wacky jacky 3/25/12 8:12 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters (D Z) Dhru Val 3/25/12 10:53 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Hemant Kathuria 3/30/12 4:04 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters James Yen 3/31/12 12:01 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Hemant Kathuria 3/30/12 4:23 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Daniel M. Ingram 3/30/12 5:39 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Some Guy 3/30/12 5:43 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters wacky jacky 4/3/12 10:13 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Hemant Kathuria 4/3/12 10:41 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Santiago Jimenez 3/24/12 2:09 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Hemant Kathuria 3/24/12 3:10 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Hemant Kathuria 3/24/12 3:00 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters James Yen 3/24/12 3:33 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Hemant Kathuria 3/24/12 9:05 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters (D Z) Dhru Val 3/24/12 5:40 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Jon T 3/24/12 7:14 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Hemant Kathuria 5/9/12 2:18 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters This Good Self 3/25/12 7:10 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters (D Z) Dhru Val 5/10/12 9:58 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Pål S. 6/4/12 3:51 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters James Yen 6/4/12 4:47 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Brian Eleven 5/11/12 8:50 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Bailey . 5/15/12 10:28 PM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Bagpuss The Gnome 5/16/12 2:19 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters wylo . 5/21/12 10:08 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters Ben Laufer 11/14/13 9:03 AM
RE: Great Laymen Masters R P 11/15/13 8:08 AM
Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/22/12 5:30 AM
Hi All,

Can we please list meditation masters who were excellent in Vipassana (or any other tradition) and also achieved phenomenal worldly success (i.e. didn't renounce the world).

Sayaji Uba Khin was one, I know. I'm researching for all other masters.

regards,
Hemant

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/23/12 5:32 PM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
what are your criteria for martery and phenominal success?

Like the Buddha crossed with Bill Gates or something less lofty?

daniel

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/24/12 12:34 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Hi Daniel,

Good question.

My definitions of material success isn't very extreme. Some examples of who I'm seeking will help - "A Meditator who started a business and now running it widely", or "A scientist who is internationally acclaimed for her research and we know that she is also a stream enterer". People like that.

I want to know what motivates a person to stretch himself beyond comforts in material world as well when he knows that ultimately these things do not matter beyond a point.

I can understand that after some meditation, the cross fertilization in world success automatically happens. many meditators I know here in India who do their day-time jobs with improved focus and they are doing good at where they are. But that's the end, I couldn't find any of them who is an aspiring entrepreneur, an innovative musician, a devoted writer. My intention is to follow up with people who have considerable proven motivations in life to seek excellence in both on-cushion and off-cushion pursuits.

In Mangal Sutta, Buddha praises laymen who are astute in their profession. But besides Anathpindika, I couldn't find much. I was also told that Sayaji U Ba Khin once mentioned (this information passed on to me is first hand) that if one is an industrialist with two factories and he comes to Vipassana. If after three years, his business doesn't grow to three factories then he has not understood Vipassana, he is doing something else in the name of it.

I'm not trying to go literally on the words, but something here struck chords with me. I'm okay with people taking a step back in their professional pursuits to go deepen in their meditation. But I also do think that clarity in mind do tend to spill over to one's professional aspirations also. But where are these men and women ? I'm an entrepreneur, and a significant portion of my success will depend upon my motivations to finally see a value for myself in it.

So not a cross fertilization of Bill Gates with Buddha but may be an equanimity stage meditator who is proud to be a millionaire also.

Thanks,
Hemant

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/24/12 1:51 AM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
Think outside the box. Any man who has demonstrated extremely high levels of creativity, wisdom or healing ability would probably qualify.

eg. Leonardo Da Vinci.

eg. Franz Mesmer (married into wealth, but great story of a man who carried on a successful practice).

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/24/12 2:09 AM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
Great question Hemant, I don't really know of any but I bet there are ... maybe some one like Ken Wilber who is one of the most successful writers in his field, or some traditional indian musicians ... not really sure ... I guess they would be more famous because of their professions rather than their practice.

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/24/12 3:10 AM as a reply to Santiago Jimenez.
Thanks CCC & Santiago.

Leonardi Da Vanci and others were great people who produced extraordinary piece of work but, frankly speaking, I can't know for sure if they were spiritually ascended in the sense that they knew the three characteristics or had less clinging to objects. I've read that many of these people were even addicted to things like drugs/women and displayed bouts of frustration and anger on too many occasions.

They seem to me as being the opposite of monks - Monks are wise but they can only talk about is Buddhists texts and/or meditation. Whereas great men of the past, when one reads them, talk about their happiness being largely related to their objects of work. A meditator knows that peace is within and so gets to find that peace and manifest/increase that through external work, she is trying hard to make peace independent of functions. Whereas, for many of these great men I've read, seems like if you take that one special liking out from their life they will go to depression (even suicide).

Same is the case with many Indian musicians and others. As long as they are doing things they love in THE WAY they want to, they are happy. Bring difficult, uninspired crew to their vicinity and their suffering is all in the open.

In my college days, I was once given the charge of taking care of a very famous film/theatre director of our country. He was a master director, it was delight to see him direct scripts and how he came up with ideas and inspired actors that worked under him. But he was so addicted to eating that one cannot even think of messing up with the dishes he wanted in lunch and dinner. The man with three wives would shiver with frustration if you dare to. This was one famous man and there was not an inch of happiness in his off-stage life.

Hemant

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/24/12 3:00 AM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
It is reported that Kobun Chino, the Zen master, talked out with Steve Jobs to start a company than to be a monk.

If I assume that this Zen master is wise and he wanted Steve to find the true purpose of his life, why didn't he motivate Steve to do serious zen practice ! What made him inspire this young man to go find meaning in spiritually (traditionally speaking) such a dud thing as 'digital electronics' !

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/24/12 3:33 AM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
I always had weird lists of such people.

Forgive me if some of these people don't qualify according to you.

Some of my friends make the list but I won't list them (you know, for privacy).

List:

Henry David Thoreau

Ralph Waldo Emerson

Chris McCandless

Aron Ralston

Ip Man

Whitman

Daniel Ingram listed some guys at one point: TS Eliot, Einstein etc.

I don't know, what are your thoughts on those guys?

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/24/12 8:07 AM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
Hemant Kathuria:
I was also told that Sayaji U Ba Khin once mentioned (this information passed on to me is first hand) that if one is an industrialist with two factories and he comes to Vipassana. If after three years, his business doesn't grow to three factories then he has not understood Vipassana, he is doing something else in the name of it.


Hey Hemant,
interesting quote - what do you make of the fact that SN Goenka, one of Sayagyi U Ba Khin's students, who was a successful and wealthy industrialist when he met Sayagyi, went on to then leave the business and become a full-time vipassana teacher?
He certainly did not set up another factory :-)

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/24/12 9:04 AM as a reply to Yadid dee.
Hi Yadid,

As I'm told, Goenkaji didn't leave his business when in Vipassana. He did retire to leave all responsibilities to his son though. Interestingly, he had to leave his Burmese enterprise behind when coming to India (this was the time when starting Vipassana) or something like that, but then again flourished gradually with varied businesses like producing silk using cultivation of moths.

One of my very good friends was personally in touch with Goenkaj's elder brother. The above data is what we gathered from him while I was practicing under Goenkaji style camps.

Hemant

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/24/12 9:05 AM as a reply to James Yen.
Thanks James for the list. I'll take a look into each of them.

Thanks,
hemant

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/24/12 12:48 PM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
Hemant Kathuria:
Hi Yadid,

As I'm told, Goenkaji didn't leave his business when in Vipassana. He did retire to leave all responsibilities to his son though. Interestingly, he had to leave his Burmese enterprise behind when coming to India (this was the time when starting Vipassana) or something like that, but then again flourished gradually with varied businesses like producing silk using cultivation of moths.

One of my very good friends was personally in touch with Goenkaj's elder brother. The above data is what we gathered from him while I was practicing under Goenkaji style camps.

Hemant


Ah I see.
My personal opinion is that in the 'Business' of liberation, there are no specific rules as to what you must and musn't do in terms of livelihood - but rather, it is beneficial to oneself to have so called 'Right Livelihood'.
So, as Goenka is fond of saying, 'the only yardstick to measure whether one is making progress in Vipassana or not is awareness and equanimity' (paraphrase from memory), and not the amount of factories one sets up.

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/24/12 5:08 PM as a reply to Yadid dee.
What about Daniel Ingram?

He is an emergency department (or whatever it's called in the US --- is it ER like the TV show) doctor as well as a great master and teacher.

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/24/12 5:40 PM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
It is always fairly difficult to gauge attainment, but in the business world...

Ray Dalio - Runs the world largest hedge fund - Bridgewater and Associates.

Claims to have meditating everyday since he was 20. Pretty clear that he has some attainments based on reading his principles the coporate culture manual (which talk a lot about cause and effect)...
http://www.bwater.com/Uploads/FileManager/Principles/Bridgewater-Associates-Ray-Dalio-Principles.pdf


maybe steve jobs as well but hard to say...

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/24/12 7:14 PM as a reply to (D Z) Dhru Val.
with any method, there must be a stage where all non-immediate worldy concerns seem less than trivial. not a good time to be running a business.

one interpretation of right livelihodd could be any which doesn't add more stress on the top of the already stressful ignorance in which you live.

after having attained to no-stress, one could then easily become wildly successful. but why bother?

vipassana would help any entrepreneur mitigate those stresses: every entrepreneur would be wise to experiment (in good faith) with it. but in this scenario, vipassana would only serve to manage the fires that each day brought forth. it wouldn't help cool the fires already existing. manage = stop the spread (emotionally). cool = to gradually put out.

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/25/12 1:49 AM as a reply to wacky jacky.
Yeah Daniel is one person who could fit really well to this category. At times, I've wondered what was his journey like. Wasn't he tempted to be a monk himself. Learning in a dhamma setting which is dominated by monks, one feels very tempted to robe and such things.

I myself had lots of curiosities whether to go to the forest life when I started Vipassana and this was one thing which I used to bother Daniel in my discussions. Thank God I discovered MCTB and that somewhat gave me the confidence that wordly life isn't that bad after all.

But sad it is that there is a tradition of monks who talk about accomplished states. But not many laymen masters, DHO here does a job very well but not many people are aware about it especially in my country. I started with Goenka tradition and somehow it gives the impression to the learner that only long hours of sitting can give you results. Countless people I've met and heard who, when they start Vipassna, remain inclined towards a homeless life (or a retired life that can give them the option of long sittings each day) and this remain an unresolved longing in their hearts for many years. Daily 1 hour of meditation and long sittings every once in a while isn't much for many of them.

Hemant

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/25/12 3:22 AM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
I am sure there must be many people who achieved stream entry and beyond that are materially and professionally successful.

I am not sure if he is a stream enterer or beyond, but one prominent person that springs to mind is the founder of Kyocera. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyocera

Kazou Inamori - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazuo_Inamori

I found one of his publications interesting but choose not to read it at the time because I was looking for things that were much more practical - http://www.amazon.com/Compass-Fulfillment-Passion-Spirituality-Business/dp/0071615091/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1332661971&sr=8-2-fkmr0

My own boss who I consider to have risen rapidly in the ranks of the company I work for spent 6 months at an ashram in India when she was 26-27. At the end she could see auras around certain people, she said she could not do it any longer. That was many years ago and she continued life returning to london to work in the corporate world. She specialises in management of change and changing procedures from a business operations perspective, which entails instilling a lot of motivation and desire for procedural improvement in employees. Her ability to see through bs and to continually identify the end result in service and where changes can be made to improve delivery has really impressed me. I have no idea whether there is a correlation between her past spiritual practice and how she operates today.

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/25/12 6:54 AM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
Hi Hemant.

I'd really like it if Daniel wrote an autobiography. It would be so interesting and so helpful in generally spreading the truth about what "enlightenment" is. And his journey there and what he had to go through, and his life now as an ER doctor.

I suspect the desire to join a monastery strikes may serious practitioners at one stage or another. i feel it too.

But it is valuable too to have enlightened people doing other things besides being in monasteries and also besides being dharma teachers. Of course these are valuable things but I like that you have raised the question of achievement in other areas.

I think there are going to be a lot more enlightened people, or arhats or people seriously on the path, there are going to be a lot more of these people around in western countries in the coming decades. It will spread rapidly I believe, because of the internet and websites like this.

Jacki.

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/25/12 5:56 PM as a reply to wacky jacky.
Your sentiment is a kind one. The issue is that somehow despite other similar requests I haven't been able to come with the time and motivation to write down some dharma-focused summary of my life so far.

Are there specific things about it that might help you or someone's practice, something a bit more narrow and focused than an autobiography?

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/25/12 7:10 PM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
Business success requires a high level of competitiveness, and 'competition' would almost qualify as a definition of the state of separateness we call ego. If one is to make a lot of money, some degree of ruthlessness is also required. Steve Jobs' biographies tell of a man who had some minor spiritual insights (through LSD use, and through contemplation of his own death), but who was also ruthless in business, a shameless liar and manipulator. Until I'd read his bio, I thought otherwise.

One of the first changes people undergo on the path, according to Chopra (How to Know God), is that they have less interest in competition, and more interest in creativity. So businesses such as law, banking, broking (of any sort), politics, finance, etc would be unlikely places to find people who are more awake. Whereas science, art, healthcare, writing, etc might be areas where they are more likely to appear. And these are areas where you don't tend to make a lot of money. So you see how finding people who meet both criteria (awake and wealthy) is going to be hard work. The interest for wealth accumulation is a symptom of ego innit?

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/25/12 8:12 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Something like "Journey of a Yogi" or "journey of a Modern American Yogi" (if this already irks you, skip to last paragraph)

or something like that which marketing people would know would make it a more accessible or broadly appealing title.

it would be a personal account of your spiritual journey. but written as if you were there in each point of time experiencing it. so that we can experience it too. so that we fall into the same pitfalls you did. so that when you in error and, for example, thought you had achieved blah-blah path, we think it too. so that we know what you really experienced, weird imaginings, mentioning what was going on in your real life at the time. meeting the same people you met. knowing what e.g. bill hamilton was really like. or some crazy people you met. your experience with different traditions, but kind of letting the reader draw their own conclusions about that. something very honest (obviously avoiding slandering identifiable people). the colour and vibrancy of your experience. including the elements that would shock people who have an idealised notion of an enlightened person.

so it would include what you really experienced going through the different paths. there's not much written on experiencing second path, third path, fourth path. of course as readers we won't necessarily know at the time as we are reading which path it is because we will be lost in the same fractal models as you were. until things culminate in some clear way.

a lot would be close to MCTB since that seems to be largely autobiographical. though it is not possible to tell which bits are your direct experience or not.

this is a very broad thing described above.

a simpler thing would be to write of your experiences on the different paths more directly. explaining everything that happened to you, specifically, with all the colour and drama of it. but more aimed at people who are already pretty intense seekers. because i have no idea which bits of ego might be left behind on gaining successive paths, and how this manifests.

jacki.

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/25/12 10:53 PM as a reply to wacky jacky.
Coming at this from a fairly skeptical mindset about the existence of enlightenment, I remember Daniel being an MD as being one of the reasons I gave it a shot...

My thoughts at the time were...

Why would an MD would risk his professional career writing a long book about something as crazy as spiritual enlightenment, only to give it away for free ?

Unless there was something profound here afterall...

Also I had this weird subconscious fear of somehow ending up wearing saffron robes, knowing that it could be compatible with a level of conventional success, normal marriage etc helped.

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/30/12 4:04 AM as a reply to (D Z) Dhru Val.
Sorry for this late response, I have been reading stuff. Thanks to :

@D Z: Info you shared about Ray Dalio , I've read only some pages and it is a gem !!

@James Yen: Your list did help me to put confidence in my pursuit.

@ A Man Not There Yet: For your inputs on Inamori and your boss!

@Gerard Banhidi: For sharing Nan Huai-Chin. I was wondering how did you come up with his name only. There are a lot others also who come from chinese region and make a living (many by Martial arts) but you chose him. Any specific reason you like him ? Will help. Thanks.

Hemant

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/30/12 4:23 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Hi Daniel,

I'm just an immature meditator so do not know if this is the right thing to ask. But, I suppose, beginners would want to know your initial struggles as a human being (when you decided to seek solutions in formal practice, after those sparkling experiences in body and those flying dreams) and how you struggled between lay life & meditative pursuits (and ultimately came up with realizations on approaches like compartmentalization, etc that you have written about in MCTB ). In an world filled with Monastries, how did you manage to not fall for that life !! Your books tells about the many techniques that you so confidently speaks about, but what were your dilemmas like, and the traps on the path that led you away or the human notions/emotions that sweep away into mind chatter !! Something like the struggles that Thich Nhat Hanh has spoken about in his book - 'Old Path White Clouds'. Sidhartha Gautama, after reading it, appears more like a brave man whom one can relate to somehow than THE MIGHTY BUDDHA.

As said before, I'm already thankful to your book MCTB that hooked me to find better practices in Insight meditation, so your answer will just come as an icing to the cake.

Sorry if asking such questions made me enter into your personal territory.

Thanks,
Hemant

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/30/12 5:39 AM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
Thanks for your questions. I can see how that would be useful, but the topic is so huge that I can't imagine writing anything like the whole thing down, or even knowing where to begin when telling the story.

Suffice to day, there were endless complexities and all the usual struggles, work, career, relationships, money, time, family, priorities, communication issues, issues with teachers, car problems, and the like.

Somehow writing about it is sort of trite-seeming to me. Perhaps if someone wanted to ask me more questions in person, I could arrange to Skype interview and record it, as that sort of back and forth might make it more relevant and help me come up with a place to start and the real-time feedback and interest that would draw a few stories out of all that is there in these 43 years so far.

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/30/12 5:43 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Okay, I've been mulling this over and I have a few ideas. Some may be better than others.

First, there's Geshe Michael Roach, who is obviously not a layman but did start and run a diamond business. He wrote a book about it called the Diamond Cutter's Way. It's about Karma and money. Interesting guy. Also the only - or first? - western Geshe.

I can't say for sure, but I believe John Cage was probably at least a stream enterer or some equivalent. All of his writings and compositions reflected Zen teachings. There's probably no way to confirm his attainment, and as far as I know his practice was purely in the realm of the creative, but his personality and the things people say about him suggest that he was happy and free.

Leonard Cohen lived in a Zen monastery in southern California for two years. There was a video posted recently at Shinzen Young's blog of him with his Roshi.

Finally, my wackiest candidate, perhaps Allen Ginsberg? I don't know, but he did practice closely with Trungpa for years. If I remember correctly, his last words were supposed to have been, "toodle-oo."

Oh, and Philip Whalen. Also ordained, as a zen abbot in San Francisco, but also was a well-known poet and beat-type person.

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
3/31/12 12:01 AM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
Man, I would love to list more people, only problem is that I think I had list of some of these people at
some point which is probably back in my house somehwere (meh, I don't live there either). Also, the majority
of such people that make the list are just people on the internet that have had an impact on me or people
I have met in person that I think are cool.

Sorry I can't be of more help, here's a few more.



Sam Lau: I studied Wing Chun under him for a month, he was uber cool.

Maskdefender: A YouTube personality and Martial Artist, seems cool.

Miles Wilson: A local Hong Kong dancer, always admired him.

John Liggins: At first a seemingly intimidating, stupid and strong black guy, yet one of the wisest people
I've ever had the privilege of talking to in person.

Tristan Miller: Author of this article: http://en.nothingisreal.com/wiki/Why_I_Will_Never_Have_a_Girlfriend
Hilarious.

MadV: A former YouTube magician.

Robert Aitken: Goes without saying (found him from talk of the Aitken-Shimano letter on Kenneth Folk Dharma).


And then, purely for artistic reason, there are just things I like, these people and works of art may not
necessarily be Enlightened or partially-Enlightened at all:

Garden State

Certain Sundance films


These films are recognized but I don't really like them:

Life in a Day

127 Hours


Anyways whatever.

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
4/3/12 10:13 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
A biography would be the way to go... A skilful biographer who is into spiritual things... I hope such a person shows up.

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
4/3/12 10:41 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Hi Daniel,

I have been thinking about this. Skype chat would surely prove to be a good asset to meditators looking for support.

I also asked this myself - who would be the best person to ask such questions ? With some thinking, I realized that yet to reach accomplishments in meditation so that might not be a good idea.

Let me talk to the guys at buddhist geeks, perhaps they can coordinate such things. I'll be happy to support whatever I can though.

Thanks,
Hemant

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
4/8/12 10:50 PM as a reply to A man Not there yet.
Hi 'A man not there yet',

I've ordered and read the book "Compass to Fuilfilment - Passion and spirituality in life and business" by Kazuo Inamori.

It is really an awesome read.

Thanks for pointing me out to him.

Appreciate your help,
Hemant

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
5/9/12 2:18 PM as a reply to (D Z) Dhru Val.
Hey DZ,

I've read some parts of the book by Ray Dalio. It is a long but a really good read.

Thanks for pointing me out to this great person and resource.

Thanks again,
Hemant

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
5/10/12 9:58 PM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
I am pretty sure best selling atheist author Sam Harris has some high level attainments.

He dropped out of Princeton and spent 10 years in India and Tibet doing various spiritual practices (primarily dzongchen). Came back completed his PhD and became a best selling author.

Advocates meditation and asserts that the subjective experience of spiritual practices is real. Even though he is skeptical about everything else religious.

Everything he writes in the consciousness category on his blog, screams of someone who has high level attainments,
http://www.samharris.org/blog/category/consciousness

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
5/11/12 8:50 PM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
Ken Mcleod:
http://www.unfetteredmind.org/
He combines Vippassana, Tibetan, and Zen in order to create a pragmatic hybrid. I've found some helpful things on his site.

Metta,
Brian.

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
5/15/12 10:28 PM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
Sayagyi U Ba Khin was the epitome of lay master. He was the teacher of SN Goenka and at one point was the head of four governmental departments.

After retirement as the Accountant General
at the age of 55, U Ba Khin was appointed the
Head of as many as four departments at one and
the same time. He assumed these heavy
responsibilities without any murmur for the good
of his country. Dhamma had accomplished him
with necessary qualities to handle them. In fact
it gave him the opportunity to serve his
countrymen and introduce Dhamma into the life
of the men of the world. The official machinery
of the country then, as evident from several
accounts, had been corroded and impaired by the
rust of greed, and the right man was appointed to
repair it. U Ba Khin organised the Departments
so well that they began to function with great
efficiency, neatness, fruitfulness and harmony. It
appeared as if the spirit of Dhamma had pervaded
them.



RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
5/16/12 2:19 AM as a reply to Bailey ..
The Bhikkhu in the picture though not a lay master is also worthy of note, it's Webu Sayadaw

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
5/21/12 10:08 AM as a reply to Bagpuss The Gnome.
Eckhart Tolle ? I know his success was based on spirituality, but is that really relevant? What I see when I see him is a succesfull author and public speaker (whether his teachings are for you or not), so on a conventional level outside of spirituality he is very successful, and probably wealthy at this stage.

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
6/4/12 3:51 AM as a reply to (D Z) Dhru Val.
Have you seen his recent talk Death and the Present Moment? Very pragmatic, like he's straight outta DhO. Fascinating to see these ideas coming into contact with the mainstream.

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
6/4/12 4:47 AM as a reply to Pål S..
I might as well name more people.

Nikola Tesla

Alfred Tennyson

(you might check out this book: http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/cc/index.htm)

Huang Shun Liang (Wing Chun master)

Gary Lam (Wing Chun master)

Aleister Crowley

MC Escher

Robert Anton Wilson

Rudolf Steiner

Timothy Leary

John Lily

Terence McKenna

Aldous Huxley

David Myatt? (probably not)

There are probably a lot of famous philosophers/literary figures/theologians who might fit the bill.

I myself preferred to name people like Aron Ralston, Chris McCandless and so forth.

But those types are hard to find.

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
11/14/13 9:03 AM as a reply to Hemant Kathuria.
Dipa Ma!!! Get the book its amazing!

RE: Great Laymen Masters
Answer
11/15/13 8:08 AM as a reply to Ben Laufer.
Another person worth mentioning here is Mikhail Ryabko. He teaches a Russian martial art called Systema. It's claimed to be based on Cossack fighting styles from the middle ages, which were in turn inspired by the fighting styles of the Huns and Mongols. The most interesting part (for me) is the breathing techniques that are part of this system. His student Vladimir Vasiliev wrote a small book about it, which is quite interesting to read. It's called "Let every breath...". He describes a type of prayer called hesychasm, which is not unlike anapanasati. He claims Ryabko is a master in this skill, and that he even developed healing powers. I think he also mentions that Ryabko is a very kind and compassionate person. Definitely sounds like a highly attained guy.